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posté August 03, 2014, 04:14:54 | #1

Quote (thesellero @ 03 August 2014 03:49) *
"The problem now is that by doing this, I am slowing down the party at an exponential rate. Keeping the monsters at bay is now becoming a time consuming method, rather then a viable, and often wanted, alternative to raw damage. As the game currently is, Raw damage will be more beneficial then the support my Sadida was able to offer in the past. "

Damage and killing will always be the number 1 priority since you need to kill things in this game to progress and who wouldn't want to progress through the game faster by killing faster? I guess its only natural.

The only way you can fix sadia is either Buff dolls to the point where they can do sizable amounts of dmg. Or Buff dolls to the point where their healing and support is powerful enough to justify their presence on the field.

I`m sorry, but in my opinion, your statement is false. Games that only focus on damage, with no interesting mechanics to help support that damage, will fail against other games in the market. Wakfu has the advantage of being really unique, though.

Not only was my Sadida increasing how fast we could kill, allowing us to progress faster, but the party could do it in a safe and easy way. Yes, its a different play style. Instead of having a difficult time `trying to deal with all of these random mechanics, I was able to let the party have an easy time killing these monsters at the same or quicker rate.

You are also incorrect about how to buff Sadida. There are many, many alternatives that would allow Sadidas to be buffed. Your thinking seems to be very narrow, though, so I am not surprised by this statement.


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #759550  Replies : 93  Views : 2123
posté August 03, 2014, 03:36:11 | #2

Quote (thesellero @ 03 August 2014 02:40) *
"I am in full agreement with people who state this game has become "Who can kill Monsters the quickest before they kill you."

This has always been the point of any mmorpg. Pretty much you need to kill the monsters and not let them kill you. Wanting to finnish this task with a faster speed is natural which is why many people strive twords this type of play style, it doesn't mean you have to play the same way.

You have to understand that games like this, are based off killing which is based off dmg. If healers healed as much as damage dealers dealt, the game would be broken. Damage always needs to exceed heals/defenses otherwise no one would die, the point of this game is to kill this is a fundamental rule.

Sorry, I think you may have misunderstood me due to a lack of information in my post. My Sadida has excellent map control through using Dolls. In the past, I was easily able to keep multiple monsters and bosses at bay, while my party had an easier time finishing off what I could not keep at bay. This, in turn, would generally allow my party to kill at a quicker and safer rate. Plus, being able to Heal and Shield allowed for the rest of the party to focus more on damage.

The problem now is that by doing this, I am slowing down the party at an exponential rate. Keeping the monsters at bay is now becoming a time consuming method, rather then a viable, and often wanted, alternative to raw damage. As the game currently is, Raw damage will be more beneficial then the support my Sadida was able to offer in the past.

Also, by support I was not referring to healing, which may have led to further confusion in my post. My Sadida is an excellent healer, lol, and I have no qualms about that.


Quote (xCATZILAx @ 03 August 2014 03:17) *

Quote (Moongrove89 @ 03 August 2014 02:21) *
-Snip-

-End rant-
This is the most honest and accurate criticism I've seen so far about Sadidas.


Thank you Skull. =)


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - August 03, 2014, 03:38:06.
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #759543  Replies : 93  Views : 2123
posté August 03, 2014, 02:21:53 | #3
I personally have been maining a Sadida for almost 2 years now. I love my Sadida, and wouldn't change my main for any other class. For those who don't know me from the forums, after the last Sadida revamp, I was a strong supporter of the Sadida class. In fact, I was one of the only supporters of this class. I figured a way to make my Sadida useful and wanted in parties, and was having a blast in both PvE and PvP content.

These past few patches, however, I have noticed my Sadida getting exponentially weaker. Not only in terms of damage, but also in terms of my ability to support the party. I am in full agreement with people who state this game has become "Who can kill Monsters the quickest before they kill you.". My Sadida is quickly becoming a useless role in this new style of game play. The support I can offer is being outclassed by raw damage. This, in my opinion, is not acceptable, and is currently making me very depressed about my main class.

I almost wish we had our old Voodoll skill, the one that summons a "Totem", for the current end game. Being able to increase single damage by 20% and more then double well positioned AoE damage would, from what I've noticed, make Sadida a wanted class again. And this is simply due to being able to increase the parties damage by a significant amount.

Regardless, something has to change with Sadidas for them to remain viable. I am currently dreading the next patch, because without changes, I know for a fact that my Sadida will "grow" weaker. A class should not be getting weaker as new gear comes out and the level cap increases...

To any person who states that this class is already too good: Please try to gain some experience with the Sadida class in a variety of end game content. You should quickly see that this class is, by far, the most difficult class to play well. There are too many disadvantages for Sadidas to continue to be on par with the other classes in this game.

-End rant-


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - August 03, 2014, 02:26:26.
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #759531  Replies : 93  Views : 2123
posté July 26, 2014, 02:08:17 | #4

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 25 July 2014 10:38) *

Quote (Moongrove89 @ 25 July 2014 00:38) *
Interesting. I have never noticed before, but Specialty skills only cost 90 skill points, while Specialty passives cost 100 skill points. I had just assumed that each skill cost the full 100 skill points.
Wow i am shocked. You play for so long and you didn't notice this?

If I had noticed it before, I would not have asked for clarification regarding that subject, lol.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #757345  Replies : 26  Views : 4389
posté July 25, 2014, 00:38:58 | #5

Quote (aquabeauty @ 24 July 2014 20:12) *

Quote (Moongrove89 @ 23 July 2014 08:01) *
A second clarification that would be helpful is the order that you level your spells in. In the description of Dolly Sacrifice, your last spell in the list, you state that you are baffled as to why Sadidas do not max this skill. With your current spell order, you would have to be level 160 (or level 161?) to have this skill at max level. Perhaps showing your actual number values at max level? That would help to clarify your specialty leveling order, which is really confusing right now.

2. Work in Progress, need to edit copy-pastes. Also there is no reason why by 153, you can not have 8 skills leveled. So it is not an option for 160 or 165.

Interesting. I have never noticed before, but Specialty skills only cost 90 skill points, while Specialty passives cost 100 skill points. I had just assumed that each skill cost the full 100 skill points.

Perhaps the reason why most people do not have Dolly Sacrifice leveled then is because most Sadidas are not level 153. Any Doll using Sadida that waits until level 153 to max Dolly Sacrifice will most likely run into problems though. I would suggest to have this skill maxed before level 153, for anyone new to the Sadida class.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #756991  Replies : 26  Views : 4389
posté July 24, 2014, 04:24:41 | #6

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 23 July 2014 16:23) *

Quote (Moongrove89 @ 23 July 2014 08:01) *
You should note that any air spell cast on the Doll will have a range of 1 - 4 with line of sight regardless of what the Sadida's spell description states.
Except K'mir wich remain 1-1 range.

Thank you for the correction. I forgot about that due to almost never using K'mir on a Doll in my fights, lol.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - July 24, 2014, 04:25:12.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #756697  Replies : 26  Views : 4389
posté July 23, 2014, 08:01:10 | #7
I was expecting this thread to say "figure it out for yourself, that's the fun part", but it's nice to see that there is more detail then that. A few clarifications would be helpful for people new to the Sadida class.

The first one is your pictures showing the potential damage of the build. You show your Sadida's damage, but not your Eni's resist. It would be useful if you added the resist values to these screenshots. It is hard to determine an accurate potential damage for normal situations with these screenshots, due to not having any resists to compare it to.

A second clarification that would be helpful is the order that you level your spells in. In the description of Dolly Sacrifice, your last spell in the list, you state that you are baffled as to why Sadidas do not max this skill. With your current spell order, you would have to be level 160 (or level 161?) to have this skill at max level. Perhaps showing your actual number values at max level? That would help to clarify your specialty leveling order, which is really confusing right now.

A third clarification is the way the Gust, and other air spells, work on every Doll besides the Ultra Powerful. I'm not sure if that's just a copy / paste from your last thread, but this is not a bug. You are confusing the Doll ability "Puffle", which is not the same as a Gust spell.

When you cast a spell on a Doll, like Gust, the Doll stores a "charge" of that spell. Puffle is an ability that has a range of 1 - 4 with line of sight, that releases all spell "charges" on the target square. The Doll does not cast the Gust spell; the Doll casts the Puffle spell. You should note that any air spell cast on the Doll will have a range of 1 - 4 with line of sight regardless of what the Sadida's spell description states.

Edit: As Kikuihimonji pointed out below, K'mir is the exception to this rule, which will cause Puffle to have a range of 1-1.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - July 24, 2014, 04:28:44.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #756355  Replies : 26  Views : 4389
posté June 27, 2014, 20:59:08 | #8
Skull - Super nice, despite what some people think about him. Classic case of judging a book by its cover. I'm glad to have him as a friend.

Eureka - My best friend on wakfu, the one person I can always depend upon. Also completely misjudged by most people, mainly due to nasty rumors. I wouldn't replace Eureka with anyone.

Sir Curtis - My one true love. I'm pretty sure he loves me back as well. He is always willing to help anyone out, even the people he should not be helping out in the first place.

Perplexed - He enjoys getting on his knees. Pretty much all to say about perp.

Lizard - Cool guy, always fun to hang around.

Gilldartz - Bad Iop, amazing guy. Will do anything you say.

Well Played - Super scary looking in photos. Thankfully her Eca looks far more gentle. She has a really fun personality.

Vanirose - Looks super lost in photos. Like her sister, she also has a super fun personality, and a joy to be around.

Raitiabgadrise - Will only talk in PMs, but is super friendly, and always willing to help anyone out.

Lullibye - Also super friendly, and super shy. Fun to be around.

Dream Eater Merry - Levels crazy fast.

Angel Beats - Also levels crazy fast. Like, crazy fast.

Hebe - Great guy, fun to be around. Wish he would play more often.

Gailtine - Also a great guy, sucks that he can no longer play, though.

Mini - Super nice, likes to have fun. I`m glad to have Mini as a friend, even if he is crazy for that Gov position, lol. =)

Hopefully I`m not forgetting anyone. I tend to be bad at remembering names, lol.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 27, 2014, 21:03:57.
Thread : Off Topic  Preview message : #749863  Replies : 24  Views : 1436
posté June 23, 2014, 03:14:02 | #9
The thing is, though, that this thread was designed to come up with something simple that has a good chance for Ankama to accept. Ankama seems to want Doll Link to only effect the Voodoll. Nid's suggestion preserves this aspect of the skill.

I agree, it's not a viable compromise in the long run, making it so limited. But for the time being, though, this would be more then acceptable. I would actually level it instead of the Tree skill.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #748323  Replies : 40  Views : 1116
posté June 23, 2014, 02:23:08 | #10
Thats not completely true, though. Many, if not all, classes have passives that are designed to work with one specific aspect of the class. Look at Osa's Animal Guard skill, or the Sadidas Green Guard passive. These are designed to work specifically with only non-Voodoll summons.

I see no problem with Doll Link giving only the Voodoll only a bonus because of how critical a role the Voodoll should be for a Sadida. I'm sure you would agree that the Voodoll should be the main thing that makes our class unique. As it stands, the Voodoll is not adequately performing its role, so buffing it through a passive is one way to buff the skill.

Extra CMC damage would make it just as useless as it is now.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 23, 2014, 02:25:09.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #748315  Replies : 40  Views : 1116
posté June 22, 2014, 23:38:26 | #11
To be completely honest, I think your suggestion has been the best so far, Nid. It keeps Doll Link the way the Devs seem to have intended, but its actually worth leveling. I am currently in support of this idea due its simplicity.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #748289  Replies : 40  Views : 1116
posté June 21, 2014, 03:50:09 | #12
I personally have never played a Sacrier, but I can help to give you a generalized overview of the class.

Sacriers seem to be designed to have three different roles. Damage dealing, through the fire branch; Map Manipulation, through the air branch; and Lock Tanking, though the earth branch. These can then be combined to suit a play style that you desire.

The different types of elemental Sacriers are the following:

Pure Fire: These are straight up melee damage dealers, designed to do more damage as their life decreases. They generally prefer to be at low HP, and their moves help that by damaging themselves. It can be easy to die as a Fire Sacrier due to this, so you generally have to be careful. There is also the inconvenience that all of your damage will have to be done in melee range. Fire Sacriers have the ability to be one of the top damage dealers in the game, currently.

Pure Air: I have not seen someone go Pure Air since they were nerffed a while ago. They focus on dealing damage while moving enemies around. Their damage is really lack luster, though, when compared to fire. Most people also do not enjoy having monsters fly everywhere around the field just so you can do damage, lol.

Pure Earth: These are straight up tanks. Most people focus on getting as much lock as possible, with a decent amount of resists. You will normally be moving monsters around so that they are in melee range with you, and then you will stand there and use your earth moves, mainly the lower-AP dodge reduction one, from what I've noticed. For bosses, most of the time you will be standing beside the boss and spamming earth moves. This is the most common type of Sacrier, mainly due to needing a tank for a lot of dungeons.

Fire / Air: These are also pure damage dealers focusing on melee damage, but having the Air branch mixed in with your Fire branch gives you the option to do some damage from range, and more damage when you are manipulating the map. You wont do as much damage as a Pure Fire Sacrier, but the extra options may make up for this downfall.

Fire / Earth: This is a damage / tanking hybrid. Pretty unconventional, you wont see many people hybridizing with the Earth branch. From what I know, though, some Earth moves can deal quite a bit of damage, especially the one that requires you to be lower then max HP. Since you will be in melee tanking, you will be able to have the option to do damage if you do not need to go full tank mode. From my point of view, you would most likely want two sets of gear for optimal use. One set for damage, with a combination of Fire / Earth damage and lock. The other set you would want is a pure Lock set, for bosses that require a substantial amount of lock, like Dragon Pig. Your damage will be lower, but you should be able to preform your role as a tank.

Air / Earth: Similar to Fire / Earth, this build is also unconventional. This would basically allow you to do more damage while manipulating the map and fulfilling your role as a tank. You would also want to get two sets of gear, one focusing on Air / Earth damage and lock, and the other focusing on as much lock as possible.


As for specialties and passives, I can't help you there. You would probably want to make a post in the Sacrier subsection for a more detailed answer. Good luck finding your class.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 21, 2014, 05:23:33.
Thread : General  Preview message : #747655  Replies : 4  Views : 1084
posté June 21, 2014, 03:27:46 | #13
This is a neat idea to give Maddolls and Lethargic more use. I'm just not sure about transferring the damage when the Doll dies, though. It may be a bit too much for a class that wasn't designed to be a primary damage dealer. I personally would rather see the Air branch get buffed before we receive any more damage buffs through passives (with the exception of Explodoll), lol.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 21, 2014, 05:32:26.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #747641  Replies : 40  Views : 1116
posté June 20, 2014, 03:38:57 | #14
Ultimately, Ankama will do what they want, and what they think is best for their own game. If Ankama is also in agreement that Doll Link is perfect the way it is, and does not require modifications, then they will keep Doll Link as such. This thread is intended to suggest a viable alternative for the current Doll Link passive, not debate the usefulness of this passive. In the long run, Ankama can do whatever they please, but I personally would like to at least try to influence Ankama in a more positive direction.

While comparing the current Doll Link to other suggestions is an important step, I would prefer if non-constructive discussions be kept to a minimum. Telling us that Doll Link is the best, most amazing passive Sadida currently has, without giving any evidence to support your position, is not constructive in any way.

I would like to ask that you discontinue, Noknives, as it is currently going off topic from what this thread was intended to discuss. If you would like to argue your position with reasons as to why this skill is so great, then you are free to do so. I do not have any problems with constructive, on topic, discussions.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 20, 2014, 04:57:12.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #747183  Replies : 40  Views : 1116
posté June 19, 2014, 20:27:42 | #15
Most people view the current Doll Link passive as a worthless passive. In my opinion, it is currently not worth investing any points into. The only type of Sadida that would consider getting this passive is a pure Lone Sadida, and they only get this passive because there is nothing else to get, lol. Therefore, people would like to suggest something that more Sadidas would consider using.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #747031  Replies : 40  Views : 1116
posté June 19, 2014, 19:56:01 | #16

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 19 June 2014 19:40) *
I just had this idea, I don't know about the numbers though. Personally I'd make it 50% but no idea if that would be overpowered. The doll doesn't heal the linked target though, it only gets part of it's HP back at the start of every turn.


See Kikui, this is an example of a Doll Link passive where the spell isn't changed too much, but just enough to have a significant impact. This suggestion keeps the old Doll Link passive, but adds on two extra things that make a difference. The Voodoll regenerating its HP each turn would be a huge help to keep it alive on bosses, but would be weaker when its on a normal monster, like it is now.

If the Voodoll could reflected healing, I would stick it on someone on my first turn in every single difficult fight. Healing one person for 10% of the damage I take makes it far more viable to actually cast it on an ally. It may have the potential to be abused, but I don't see anything significantly over powered with it.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 19, 2014, 20:00:27.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #747023  Replies : 40  Views : 1116
posté June 19, 2014, 19:35:27 | #17
We clearly stated that your suggestion will not work. Three, or more, of us told you that your suggestion will not work. This has nothing to do with trying to suppress your creativity. It is to suppress a suggestion which people are tired of seeing, and do not want to see on the Sadida class. The only way to bring back any Doll Link from the past will be to nerf something. I do not want to see something get nerffed just to bring back this passive.

Therefore, I asked that you refrain from suggesting this. When you did not comply to my request, I had no other option but to resort to a threat. I do see it as trolling, since that is exactly what it is. You keep bringing up a topic that no one wants to talk about, which is trolling.

My opinion has nothing to do with what I, or others, have suggested. I do not care if people like my suggestion. I quickly created it as a starting point for our discussion, not as a finalized passive that Sadida should have. My opinion has to do solely with what you are suggesting.

I would rather see Sadida balanced the Grou way, then see Sadida balanced the Kikui way.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 19, 2014, 20:19:04.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #747009  Replies : 40  Views : 1116
posté June 19, 2014, 18:59:58 | #18
o_o

This thread is intended to create a new Doll Link passive that can be easily implemented. This thread is not intended to bring up the past Doll Link passives. Any further discussion into the former Doll Link passives will be considered going off topic and trolling, and will be reported as such.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #746991  Replies : 40  Views : 1116
posté June 19, 2014, 14:27:11 | #19
Explodoll would not be leveled to utilize its effect only. I personally think that designing this passive to do something like that would be a mistake. Explodoll is supposed to be a threat so people do not kill our Dolls, and I would like to see it stay as so. It is suppose to be something extra, not something that you rely on. Hence why Smallz suggested giving the enemy killer a debuff depending on the Doll, and others have suggesting giving the explosion effect a debuff. Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages.

As it stands right now, the explosion damage / heal is garbage, and I don't think Anakama could buff it to the point where it would make people think twice in 1v1 PvP. This passive would still be garbage with just a simple boost to its base stats, as I have tried to explain in my opening post. I do not think it is possible to find a comprise with just damage / healing; it will always be either too weak, or too strong.

That being said, adding something onto that explosion, like Critical Failures, would make it far more interesting. As it stands, not very many classes can apply Critical Failures, and giving Sadida a way to apply that would help with our "Jack of all Trades" play styles. I personally would welcome something like that, provided that it is a small enough chance to Critical Failure.

While I personally think that giving each Doll its own effect would be the most interesting way, it does cause the spell to have a lot going on. It would be far easier for Ankama to develop and program if it was simplified to only one effect for every Doll. It may be easier for us to focus on one effect, rather then focus on a bunch of effects at once.

I also do not think that a Doll HP increase and this passive should go together. It personally makes no sense to me, we give the Dolls more HP so it takes them longer to explode? Seems counterproductive to me, and an odd choice of effects to be in one passive.

This thread was created to come up with a simple solution to the passive. I am against trying to merge this passive with any other passive, lol. Something like that is far too complicated for this discussion, and out of the scope of what we are trying to achieve.

Also, is there a bias towards the Doll HP values that you chose? That is to say, is there some reason as to why you chose those amounts, or were they chosen at random? I randomly chose a 5% increase to all Dolls on my other thread, but I wasn't sure if this buff would be too weak, or too strong. The HP buff you gave most Dolls are more then double what I chose.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 19, 2014, 14:31:20.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #746913  Replies : 17  Views : 580
posté June 19, 2014, 14:04:52 | #20
Ok, can someone please explain to me how gaining Heal Resistance by healing each turn would create any sort of problems, with an example please. I'll counter it by showing two scenarios of my own.


Scenario 1, no healing per turn:

Round 1: Sadida takes 0 Damage, Heal Resistance at 0.
Round 2: Sadida takes 500 Damage, Heal Resistance at 0.
Round 3: Sadida heals 500 Damage, Heal Resistance at 10%.
Round 4: Sadida takes 0 Damage, Heal Resistance at 10%.


Scenario 2, healing per turn:

Round 1: Sadida takes 0 damage, Heal Resistance at 0.
Round 2: Sadida takes 500 Damage, Heal Resistance at 0.
Round 3: Sadida heals 200 Damage instantly, then Heals remaining 300 Damage, Heal Resistance at 10%.
Round 4: Sadida takes 0 damage, Heal Resistance at 10%.



The only difference between these two scenarios, is that the Sadida only had to heal 300 Damage instead of 500 Damage to receive the same amount of Heal Resistance. Heal Resistance is based on how much you get healed, compared to your maximum HP. So someone with low HP, getting healed for often, will generate far more Heal resistance then someone with High HP, getting healed for the same amount. Heal Resistance is not based on how often you get healed, so there should be no negative effects from healing per turn.

I'm not trying to defend the first suggestion that i made in this thread, though. I just think the view that healing each turn would cause a problem is flawed, and would like to know if I'm the one that is flawed instead.
______________________

With that out of the way, I can not see any way which the old concept of Doll Link will work with the current summon system that we have. I would much prefer having cheaper Dolls that I can control, then restoring the old Doll Link. Careful not to let nostalgia influence you too much, Kikui.

I would like to stay away from trying to implement anything similar to the former Doll Link in this thread. We will never get anywhere if we try to balance it into the current Sadida class. I have no problems with keeping the damage reduction with the Voodoll out, though. Having it affect the Voodoll only is a lot different then letting it affect every Doll.

Also, from my experienced point of view, the only way Sadida is going to have a viable chance in 1v1 PvP, against all classes, is to create the option to do more burst damage. Right now the Sadida is designed to gain strength over time. This is in direct contrast with most of these classes that you have been mentioning, which are better designed to do high amounts of damage in a quick period of time. Unless something changes with the current PvP system, Sadida will never be one of the major 1v1 PvP classes with its current design. And its not the Sadidas classes fault, its simply due to the fact that other classes can do more damage quicker then we can.

That being said, my Sadida is no push over in 1v1 PvP, and I have been called the most valuable player in group (6v6, etc.) PvP before. This is because Sadidas are proficient at map manipulation, especially good at map control, and we can easily switch between a number of roles when needed. Map manipulation and control are two of the most important things in group PvP.

While I think my Sadida tends to be pretty useless in group PvP, I get constantly ensured that my Sadida does make a positive difference. The problem is, its hard to quantify the accomplishments of a Sadida that uses Dolls. There are too many variables, too many things that could happen to create something positive, that can't be expressed in words alone. Its much easier to compare damage numbers between other classes, and currently, it's hard to see what a Doll Sadida can do compared to other classes based on damage numbers alone.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 19, 2014, 14:10:53.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #746911  Replies : 40  Views : 1116