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Member Since : 2012-10-15
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posté Yesterday - 08:01:10 | #1
I was expecting this thread to say "figure it out for yourself, that's the fun part", but it's nice to see that there is more detail then that. A few clarifications would be helpful for people new to the Sadida class.

The first one is your pictures showing the potential damage of the build. You show your Sadida's damage, but not your Eni's resist. It would be useful if you added the resist values to these screenshots. It is hard to determine an accurate potential damage for normal situations with these screenshots, due to not having any resists to compare it to.

A second clarification that would be helpful is the order that you level your spells in. In the description of Dolly Sacrifice, your last spell in the list, you state that you are baffled as to why Sadidas do not max this skill. With your current spell order, you would have to be level 160 (or level 161?) to have this skill at max level. Perhaps showing your actual number values at max level? That would help to clarify your specialty leveling order, which is really confusing right now.

A third clarification is the way the Gust, and other air spells, work on every Doll besides the Ultra Powerful. I'm not sure if that's just a copy / paste from your last thread, but this is not a bug. You are confusing the Doll ability "Puffle", which is not the same as a Gust spell.

When you cast a spell on a Doll, like Gust, the Doll stores a "charge" of that spell. Puffle is an ability that has a range of 1 - 4 with line of sight, that releases all spell "charges" on the target square. The Doll does not cast the Gust spell; the Doll casts the Puffle spell. You should note that any air spell cast on the Doll will have a range of 1 - 4 with line of sight regardless of what the Sadida's spell description states.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - July 23, 2014, 08:07:23.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #756355  Replies : 7  Views : 277
posté June 27, 2014, 20:59:08 | #2
Skull - Super nice, despite what some people think about him. Classic case of judging a book by its cover. I'm glad to have him as a friend.

Eureka - My best friend on wakfu, the one person I can always depend upon. Also completely misjudged by most people, mainly due to nasty rumors. I wouldn't replace Eureka with anyone.

Sir Curtis - My one true love. I'm pretty sure he loves me back as well. He is always willing to help anyone out, even the people he should not be helping out in the first place.

Perplexed - He enjoys getting on his knees. Pretty much all to say about perp.

Lizard - Cool guy, always fun to hang around.

Gilldartz - Bad Iop, amazing guy. Will do anything you say.

Well Played - Super scary looking in photos. Thankfully her Eca looks far more gentle. She has a really fun personality.

Vanirose - Looks super lost in photos. Like her sister, she also has a super fun personality, and a joy to be around.

Raitiabgadrise - Will only talk in PMs, but is super friendly, and always willing to help anyone out.

Lullibye - Also super friendly, and super shy. Fun to be around.

Dream Eater Merry - Levels crazy fast.

Angel Beats - Also levels crazy fast. Like, crazy fast.

Hebe - Great guy, fun to be around. Wish he would play more often.

Gailtine - Also a great guy, sucks that he can no longer play, though.

Mini - Super nice, likes to have fun. I`m glad to have Mini as a friend, even if he is crazy for that Gov position, lol. =)

Hopefully I`m not forgetting anyone. I tend to be bad at remembering names, lol.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 27, 2014, 21:03:57.
Thread : Off Topic  Preview message : #749863  Replies : 21  Views : 678
posté June 23, 2014, 03:14:02 | #3
The thing is, though, that this thread was designed to come up with something simple that has a good chance for Ankama to accept. Ankama seems to want Doll Link to only effect the Voodoll. Nid's suggestion preserves this aspect of the skill.

I agree, it's not a viable compromise in the long run, making it so limited. But for the time being, though, this would be more then acceptable. I would actually level it instead of the Tree skill.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #748323  Replies : 40  Views : 688
posté June 23, 2014, 02:23:08 | #4
Thats not completely true, though. Many, if not all, classes have passives that are designed to work with one specific aspect of the class. Look at Osa's Animal Guard skill, or the Sadidas Green Guard passive. These are designed to work specifically with only non-Voodoll summons.

I see no problem with Doll Link giving only the Voodoll only a bonus because of how critical a role the Voodoll should be for a Sadida. I'm sure you would agree that the Voodoll should be the main thing that makes our class unique. As it stands, the Voodoll is not adequately performing its role, so buffing it through a passive is one way to buff the skill.

Extra CMC damage would make it just as useless as it is now.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 23, 2014, 02:25:09.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #748315  Replies : 40  Views : 688
posté June 22, 2014, 23:38:26 | #5
To be completely honest, I think your suggestion has been the best so far, Nid. It keeps Doll Link the way the Devs seem to have intended, but its actually worth leveling. I am currently in support of this idea due its simplicity.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #748289  Replies : 40  Views : 688
posté June 21, 2014, 03:50:09 | #6
I personally have never played a Sacrier, but I can help to give you a generalized overview of the class.

Sacriers seem to be designed to have three different roles. Damage dealing, through the fire branch; Map Manipulation, through the air branch; and Lock Tanking, though the earth branch. These can then be combined to suit a play style that you desire.

The different types of elemental Sacriers are the following:

Pure Fire: These are straight up melee damage dealers, designed to do more damage as their life decreases. They generally prefer to be at low HP, and their moves help that by damaging themselves. It can be easy to die as a Fire Sacrier due to this, so you generally have to be careful. There is also the inconvenience that all of your damage will have to be done in melee range. Fire Sacriers have the ability to be one of the top damage dealers in the game, currently.

Pure Air: I have not seen someone go Pure Air since they were nerffed a while ago. They focus on dealing damage while moving enemies around. Their damage is really lack luster, though, when compared to fire. Most people also do not enjoy having monsters fly everywhere around the field just so you can do damage, lol.

Pure Earth: These are straight up tanks. Most people focus on getting as much lock as possible, with a decent amount of resists. You will normally be moving monsters around so that they are in melee range with you, and then you will stand there and use your earth moves, mainly the lower-AP dodge reduction one, from what I've noticed. For bosses, most of the time you will be standing beside the boss and spamming earth moves. This is the most common type of Sacrier, mainly due to needing a tank for a lot of dungeons.

Fire / Air: These are also pure damage dealers focusing on melee damage, but having the Air branch mixed in with your Fire branch gives you the option to do some damage from range, and more damage when you are manipulating the map. You wont do as much damage as a Pure Fire Sacrier, but the extra options may make up for this downfall.

Fire / Earth: This is a damage / tanking hybrid. Pretty unconventional, you wont see many people hybridizing with the Earth branch. From what I know, though, some Earth moves can deal quite a bit of damage, especially the one that requires you to be lower then max HP. Since you will be in melee tanking, you will be able to have the option to do damage if you do not need to go full tank mode. From my point of view, you would most likely want two sets of gear for optimal use. One set for damage, with a combination of Fire / Earth damage and lock. The other set you would want is a pure Lock set, for bosses that require a substantial amount of lock, like Dragon Pig. Your damage will be lower, but you should be able to preform your role as a tank.

Air / Earth: Similar to Fire / Earth, this build is also unconventional. This would basically allow you to do more damage while manipulating the map and fulfilling your role as a tank. You would also want to get two sets of gear, one focusing on Air / Earth damage and lock, and the other focusing on as much lock as possible.


As for specialties and passives, I can't help you there. You would probably want to make a post in the Sacrier subsection for a more detailed answer. Good luck finding your class.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 21, 2014, 05:23:33.
Thread : General  Preview message : #747655  Replies : 4  Views : 662
posté June 21, 2014, 03:27:46 | #7
This is a neat idea to give Maddolls and Lethargic more use. I'm just not sure about transferring the damage when the Doll dies, though. It may be a bit too much for a class that wasn't designed to be a primary damage dealer. I personally would rather see the Air branch get buffed before we receive any more damage buffs through passives (with the exception of Explodoll), lol.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 21, 2014, 05:32:26.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #747641  Replies : 40  Views : 688
posté June 20, 2014, 03:38:57 | #8
Ultimately, Ankama will do what they want, and what they think is best for their own game. If Ankama is also in agreement that Doll Link is perfect the way it is, and does not require modifications, then they will keep Doll Link as such. This thread is intended to suggest a viable alternative for the current Doll Link passive, not debate the usefulness of this passive. In the long run, Ankama can do whatever they please, but I personally would like to at least try to influence Ankama in a more positive direction.

While comparing the current Doll Link to other suggestions is an important step, I would prefer if non-constructive discussions be kept to a minimum. Telling us that Doll Link is the best, most amazing passive Sadida currently has, without giving any evidence to support your position, is not constructive in any way.

I would like to ask that you discontinue, Noknives, as it is currently going off topic from what this thread was intended to discuss. If you would like to argue your position with reasons as to why this skill is so great, then you are free to do so. I do not have any problems with constructive, on topic, discussions.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 20, 2014, 04:57:12.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #747183  Replies : 40  Views : 688
posté June 19, 2014, 20:27:42 | #9
Most people view the current Doll Link passive as a worthless passive. In my opinion, it is currently not worth investing any points into. The only type of Sadida that would consider getting this passive is a pure Lone Sadida, and they only get this passive because there is nothing else to get, lol. Therefore, people would like to suggest something that more Sadidas would consider using.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #747031  Replies : 40  Views : 688
posté June 19, 2014, 19:56:01 | #10

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 19 June 2014 19:40) *
I just had this idea, I don't know about the numbers though. Personally I'd make it 50% but no idea if that would be overpowered. The doll doesn't heal the linked target though, it only gets part of it's HP back at the start of every turn.


See Kikui, this is an example of a Doll Link passive where the spell isn't changed too much, but just enough to have a significant impact. This suggestion keeps the old Doll Link passive, but adds on two extra things that make a difference. The Voodoll regenerating its HP each turn would be a huge help to keep it alive on bosses, but would be weaker when its on a normal monster, like it is now.

If the Voodoll could reflected healing, I would stick it on someone on my first turn in every single difficult fight. Healing one person for 10% of the damage I take makes it far more viable to actually cast it on an ally. It may have the potential to be abused, but I don't see anything significantly over powered with it.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 19, 2014, 20:00:27.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #747023  Replies : 40  Views : 688
posté June 19, 2014, 19:35:27 | #11
We clearly stated that your suggestion will not work. Three, or more, of us told you that your suggestion will not work. This has nothing to do with trying to suppress your creativity. It is to suppress a suggestion which people are tired of seeing, and do not want to see on the Sadida class. The only way to bring back any Doll Link from the past will be to nerf something. I do not want to see something get nerffed just to bring back this passive.

Therefore, I asked that you refrain from suggesting this. When you did not comply to my request, I had no other option but to resort to a threat. I do see it as trolling, since that is exactly what it is. You keep bringing up a topic that no one wants to talk about, which is trolling.

My opinion has nothing to do with what I, or others, have suggested. I do not care if people like my suggestion. I quickly created it as a starting point for our discussion, not as a finalized passive that Sadida should have. My opinion has to do solely with what you are suggesting.

I would rather see Sadida balanced the Grou way, then see Sadida balanced the Kikui way.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 19, 2014, 20:19:04.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #747009  Replies : 40  Views : 688
posté June 19, 2014, 18:59:58 | #12
o_o

This thread is intended to create a new Doll Link passive that can be easily implemented. This thread is not intended to bring up the past Doll Link passives. Any further discussion into the former Doll Link passives will be considered going off topic and trolling, and will be reported as such.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #746991  Replies : 40  Views : 688
posté June 19, 2014, 14:27:11 | #13
Explodoll would not be leveled to utilize its effect only. I personally think that designing this passive to do something like that would be a mistake. Explodoll is supposed to be a threat so people do not kill our Dolls, and I would like to see it stay as so. It is suppose to be something extra, not something that you rely on. Hence why Smallz suggested giving the enemy killer a debuff depending on the Doll, and others have suggesting giving the explosion effect a debuff. Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages.

As it stands right now, the explosion damage / heal is garbage, and I don't think Anakama could buff it to the point where it would make people think twice in 1v1 PvP. This passive would still be garbage with just a simple boost to its base stats, as I have tried to explain in my opening post. I do not think it is possible to find a comprise with just damage / healing; it will always be either too weak, or too strong.

That being said, adding something onto that explosion, like Critical Failures, would make it far more interesting. As it stands, not very many classes can apply Critical Failures, and giving Sadida a way to apply that would help with our "Jack of all Trades" play styles. I personally would welcome something like that, provided that it is a small enough chance to Critical Failure.

While I personally think that giving each Doll its own effect would be the most interesting way, it does cause the spell to have a lot going on. It would be far easier for Ankama to develop and program if it was simplified to only one effect for every Doll. It may be easier for us to focus on one effect, rather then focus on a bunch of effects at once.

I also do not think that a Doll HP increase and this passive should go together. It personally makes no sense to me, we give the Dolls more HP so it takes them longer to explode? Seems counterproductive to me, and an odd choice of effects to be in one passive.

This thread was created to come up with a simple solution to the passive. I am against trying to merge this passive with any other passive, lol. Something like that is far too complicated for this discussion, and out of the scope of what we are trying to achieve.

Also, is there a bias towards the Doll HP values that you chose? That is to say, is there some reason as to why you chose those amounts, or were they chosen at random? I randomly chose a 5% increase to all Dolls on my other thread, but I wasn't sure if this buff would be too weak, or too strong. The HP buff you gave most Dolls are more then double what I chose.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 19, 2014, 14:31:20.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #746913  Replies : 17  Views : 331
posté June 19, 2014, 14:04:52 | #14
Ok, can someone please explain to me how gaining Heal Resistance by healing each turn would create any sort of problems, with an example please. I'll counter it by showing two scenarios of my own.


Scenario 1, no healing per turn:

Round 1: Sadida takes 0 Damage, Heal Resistance at 0.
Round 2: Sadida takes 500 Damage, Heal Resistance at 0.
Round 3: Sadida heals 500 Damage, Heal Resistance at 10%.
Round 4: Sadida takes 0 Damage, Heal Resistance at 10%.


Scenario 2, healing per turn:

Round 1: Sadida takes 0 damage, Heal Resistance at 0.
Round 2: Sadida takes 500 Damage, Heal Resistance at 0.
Round 3: Sadida heals 200 Damage instantly, then Heals remaining 300 Damage, Heal Resistance at 10%.
Round 4: Sadida takes 0 damage, Heal Resistance at 10%.



The only difference between these two scenarios, is that the Sadida only had to heal 300 Damage instead of 500 Damage to receive the same amount of Heal Resistance. Heal Resistance is based on how much you get healed, compared to your maximum HP. So someone with low HP, getting healed for often, will generate far more Heal resistance then someone with High HP, getting healed for the same amount. Heal Resistance is not based on how often you get healed, so there should be no negative effects from healing per turn.

I'm not trying to defend the first suggestion that i made in this thread, though. I just think the view that healing each turn would cause a problem is flawed, and would like to know if I'm the one that is flawed instead.
______________________

With that out of the way, I can not see any way which the old concept of Doll Link will work with the current summon system that we have. I would much prefer having cheaper Dolls that I can control, then restoring the old Doll Link. Careful not to let nostalgia influence you too much, Kikui.

I would like to stay away from trying to implement anything similar to the former Doll Link in this thread. We will never get anywhere if we try to balance it into the current Sadida class. I have no problems with keeping the damage reduction with the Voodoll out, though. Having it affect the Voodoll only is a lot different then letting it affect every Doll.

Also, from my experienced point of view, the only way Sadida is going to have a viable chance in 1v1 PvP, against all classes, is to create the option to do more burst damage. Right now the Sadida is designed to gain strength over time. This is in direct contrast with most of these classes that you have been mentioning, which are better designed to do high amounts of damage in a quick period of time. Unless something changes with the current PvP system, Sadida will never be one of the major 1v1 PvP classes with its current design. And its not the Sadidas classes fault, its simply due to the fact that other classes can do more damage quicker then we can.

That being said, my Sadida is no push over in 1v1 PvP, and I have been called the most valuable player in group (6v6, etc.) PvP before. This is because Sadidas are proficient at map manipulation, especially good at map control, and we can easily switch between a number of roles when needed. Map manipulation and control are two of the most important things in group PvP.

While I think my Sadida tends to be pretty useless in group PvP, I get constantly ensured that my Sadida does make a positive difference. The problem is, its hard to quantify the accomplishments of a Sadida that uses Dolls. There are too many variables, too many things that could happen to create something positive, that can't be expressed in words alone. Its much easier to compare damage numbers between other classes, and currently, it's hard to see what a Doll Sadida can do compared to other classes based on damage numbers alone.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 19, 2014, 14:10:53.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #746911  Replies : 40  Views : 688
posté June 19, 2014, 04:42:23 | #15
Turning this passive into a way to boost the Sacrificial Doll would make those that remember the old Sadidas happy, lol. There were quite a few people who complained about losing their "Fire Sadida" builds. This could potentially be a great way to bring back the usefulness of Sacrificial Dolls.

The main worry I have with something like this is balancing, though. That damage isn't a significant amount, but allies are also able to convert seeds into Sacrificial Dolls. Thus, an allies AoE could turn an innocent 2 AP seed, into a huge source of damage for its AP cost.

From the way you have it set up right now, it would be very easy for a Sadida go to something like, Earth / Fire, and have a significant amount of base fire damage. Lets say the Sadida has 500% Fire and Earth damage. The passive would increase the fire damage to 750%.

You gave the doll 70 damage, so at 750% that would be 595 damage, before resistance. I'm not sure if I'm just being over cautious, but it seems to have the potential to be abused, due to the amount of damage that can be added compared to the AP cost to add it. That combined with the fact that it has the potential for melee "AoE" damage.

Of course, your numbers aren't finalized or balanced yet, so we should worry more about specifics of the passive then the actual possibility of making something good for Sac Doll Sadi's. Giving Explodoll the ability to boost them is probably the best way of doing it.


Also, nothing says we cant have multiple, working rough drafts for the passives we create. People always prefer a choice. =)


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #746797  Replies : 17  Views : 331
posté June 18, 2014, 21:29:31 | #16
Giving a passive the ability to control Dolls is something I wouldn't have considered. That is definitely one way for Ankama to give us control of our Dolls, without just making it something we automatically get. I know not everyone wants free control of Dolls, but I am personally in the group that would love to control their Dolls, regardless of any potential lag or abuse issues, lol.

I also agree that this passive was more designed to be incorporated into a Lone Sadida type build through the use of Voodoll. This is also one of its flaws, though, as its currently pointless without having a Voodoll out. And I don't know any Sadidas, even pure Lone Sadida users, who consistently keep a Voodoll out, lol.

At this point, I would say to just slap something on for Voodoll, in conjunction with whatever other effects we decide to choose for it. Like you guys have suggested, another 100% HP increase for the Voodoll, or even just keeping the 10% damage reduction with the Voodoll out, is definitely the easiest solution.

While I would love a resurrection type ability, I have my doubts Ankama would ever consider one, as much as we would want one. I think Ankama is avoiding giving any secondary healers a way to resurrect, in order to try and preserve the usefulness of the Eni class. The same reason why I think they are reluctant to give us a way to remove negative effects.

A "Rebirth mark" type effect would be pretty cool to see, but I'm not sure about balancing issues. It seems like it would be really hard to include it in the current Sadida play style, lol. A cool idea though, that's for sure.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #746703  Replies : 40  Views : 688
posté June 18, 2014, 21:05:20 | #17
Counterattacking would be an interesting way for the Doll to defend itself. It may not be as great as it sounds, though, due to how quickly a Doll can die. Its not uncommon for anything non - Block / Inflatable to die in one hit. The debuffing route would probably be the easiest and quickest way to fix this passive, At least, this thread was more designed to pump out something that actually works, then go from there, lol.

When trying to find what type of debuffs Ankama had in mind, I was only able to find one Sadida revamp PDF, which gave the following explosion effects:

Earth Doll: - 20 Hypermovement - 20 Resist all
Air Doll: Moves the killer of the Doll by 1 cell (randomly)
Water Doll: - 1 Range -20% to heals
Fire Doll: -1 Range

This might explain why there was resistance to this type of Explodoll, lol. I could see why people at the time would think that the damage / heal explosion would be superior to the effects listed above. I personally think the way we have it set up, with each Doll having their own effect, is a better way of doing it (I noticed we forgot all about the Sacrificial Doll's explosion effect, lol).

As for the Voodoll explosion effect, I agree that we might be pushing it on that one. Sadly, Ankama seems to be frightened to buff Voodoll any more then it is. We may not want to shock them too much, since we have some pretty drastic Voodoll ideas, lol. May be better just to ignore Voodoll on this one, since there already seems to be a lot going on for this passive.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #746693  Replies : 17  Views : 331
posté June 18, 2014, 17:00:38 | #18
Hm, currently Explodoll does not effect the Voodoll, so it may be better to just not give it an effect. It would also probably be easier to balance the passive as well.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #746553  Replies : 17  Views : 331
posté June 18, 2014, 16:29:10 | #19
Well, I'm not saying it would solve anything, only help the problem a bit. But yeah, it would be random. If I had to compare it, I would say it's similar to the Osa summon rebirth chance. Also, we would get 3 AP back in addition to the WP. =P

Edit: Maybe buff the effect to a 50% to revive? That would keep it having a random chance, but would be more stable then a 20% chance.

Or even 100% chance to revive at max passive level. Since it only stays linked to one target, that would allow it to "last forever" on both bosses and normal monsters alike. That would give a similar effect to what other people have been suggesting for the Voodoll ability.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 18, 2014, 16:37:38.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #746541  Replies : 17  Views : 331
posté June 18, 2014, 16:14:33 | #20
Something like that does seem like the best way to go for Explodoll right now. We will have to be careful about abusing situations, though. The Maddoll, Lethargic, Greedy, and Inflatable all look fine in my opinion. The Ultra Powerful's ability looks too weak to me, maybe a small resistance debuff instead. The Voodoll's explosion ability would be really cool too, and would help a bit with the Voodolls HP problem. And I wouldn't consider it OP because its based on a lot of luck.

The Blocks ability looks like it has too much potential be abused, though. If an ally, like a tank, kills this doll, they will get free Stabilization. Although, i may just be over thinking it. With the new Dodge / Lock revamp, it might be better to give it something like a - Dodge debuff when killed.


This post has been edited by Moongrove89 - June 18, 2014, 16:18:44.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #746537  Replies : 17  Views : 331