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Foggernaut modifications
Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2012-03-25
posté June 22, 2013, 02:52:28 | #21
They didn't actually nerf stasis.

Stasis will be more usable at lower levels, as the spell dmgs will be higher than before.

Stasis will be able to still deal good damage, as stasis bonus damage now takes effect (average of all spell damage).

E.g. if i have 300% earth and fire, 200% the other 2 i get 250% stasis damage. Stasis also hurts the lowest resist of the opponent, unlike any other element.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2012-07-08
posté June 22, 2013, 05:38:17 | #22
From first-hand experience, the current early/mid game of a Stasis Foggernaut is basically powerleveling or depending on teammates to deal damage because the damage output is just so bad early levels. On the other hand, once you get tanky enough to solo Whisperers or get to Chillberg, it's like all the hard work paid off, but the resist-ignoring advantage is not so apparent that its "game breaking" because I sure do see other classes soloing Mechas around me. Also, dungeon bosses are typically immune to Stasified, which makes us completely useless, as the current Stasis Fogger depends fully on Stasified and his Stasis spell levels to amplify his damage.

These new modifications appropriately address the early/mid game problem, but now late game has become more difficult, depending partially on if the Stasified state is removed or not which is not cleared up yet. If we still do have the Stasified state after these modifications, our damage against high resistance mobs could still be decent, though at level 100 Stasified it only grants us 50% Stasis damage (-50% enemy resistance).

As an example, Xelor's Punishment at base damage of 90 with 450% bonus air damage does 405 damage to a 0% air resistance mob. Next, Heart of Steam at base damage of 90 with 250% damage (an extremely high average with the best gear calculated by this guy) does 225 damage to a mob that's lowest resistance is 0%. If these spells both cost 5AP, why should there be such a huge difference between them? Of course a Xelor and a Fogger have different niches, but isn't the point of this whole modification to remove the resistance-ignoring niche and make them equally viable in similar situations as other classes?

If the current problem with Stasis is its effectiveness against Prims, I'd just make Prims immune to Stasified and even have some Stasis resistance, but if the problem is directed to future updates, that is way beyond me. All I can say is that I am a little confused and bummed that they're getting rid of Stasis's uniqueness of ignoring resistance, but I have faith in what the devs come up with.


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2010-12-10
posté June 22, 2013, 11:07:39 | #23

Quote (monetclaude @ 22 June 2013 05:38) *
.... but I have faith in what the devs come up with.


Hi....you must be new to Wakfu....


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-01-05
posté June 22, 2013, 11:20:25 | #24

Quote (Grou @ 21 June 2013 14:50) *

I know that some of you might be disappointed by this change, but we simply cannot keep Stasis as it is currently.

Please let me know what you think.

This is a joke right?

"Oh look, this is one of the weakest and most useless classes in game. Let's nerf it even more!"

Stasis is not in any way powerful at the current state of the game. Especially since it is mostly useless against UBs. I would like to know why the dev team thinks it is too strong right now?

Even against enemies with 0 stasis resist the damage is way, way below what an average DD is doing.


This post has been edited by Shaleigh1 - June 22, 2013, 11:22:55.
Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-02-05
posté June 22, 2013, 12:52:28 | #25
I think its far more better then to just remove the entire stasis branch and replace it with a Water branch. It isn't called steamer for nothing

Grou, I dislike your current suggestions because you need a high % to deal dmg and there is now way a stasis fogger can get it


Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2010-07-03
posté June 22, 2013, 15:22:00 | #26
I am agree about stasis to water branch idea :/


Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2012-03-25
posté June 22, 2013, 15:28:18 | #27

Quote (monetclaude @ 22 June 2013 05:38) *
From first-hand experience, the current early/mid game of a Stasis Foggernaut is basically powerleveling or depending on teammates to deal damage because the damage output is just so bad early levels. On the other hand, once you get tanky enough to solo Whisperers or get to Chillberg, it's like all the hard work paid off, but the resist-ignoring advantage is not so apparent that its "game breaking" because I sure do see other classes soloing Mechas around me. Also, dungeon bosses are typically immune to Stasified, which makes us completely useless, as the current Stasis Fogger depends fully on Stasified and his Stasis spell levels to amplify his damage.

These new modifications appropriately address the early/mid game problem, but now late game has become more difficult, depending partially on if the Stasified state is removed or not which is not cleared up yet. If we still do have the Stasified state after these modifications, our damage against high resistance mobs could still be decent, though at level 100 Stasified it only grants us 50% Stasis damage (-50% enemy resistance).

As an example, Xelor's Punishment at base damage of 90 with 450% bonus air damage does 405 damage to a 0% air resistance mob. Next, Heart of Steam at base damage of 90 with 250% damage (an extremely high average with the best gear calculated by this guy) does 225 damage to a mob that's lowest resistance is 0%. If these spells both cost 5AP, why should there be such a huge difference between them? Of course a Xelor and a Fogger have different niches, but isn't the point of this whole modification to remove the resistance-ignoring niche and make them equally viable in similar situations as other classes?

If the current problem with Stasis is its effectiveness against Prims, I'd just make Prims immune to Stasified and even have some Stasis resistance, but if the problem is directed to future updates, that is way beyond me. All I can say is that I am a little confused and bummed that they're getting rid of Stasis's uniqueness of ignoring resistance, but I have faith in what the devs come up with.

You could also argue that xelors are not tanks whereas foggers can tank with a hell of a lot of HP and more resist. At the same time, xelors can not so easily set off xelors punishment and will be limited to 2/turn after their revamp.. Xelors are also damage dealers unlike foggers. So in a way it balances it out, losing damage for more tankness.


Community Helper * Member Since 2005-08-28
posté June 22, 2013, 15:36:28 | #28

Quote (Grou @ 21 June 2013 14:50) *
I know that some of you might be disappointed by this change, but we simply cannot keep Stasis as it is currently.
How about this.
Do not make any changes and see what actually happens as planning is not Ankama's strength. So your making the changes because of the new content? why can't you plan and get them to work together?. As it feel sounds like you got out of bed then realised stasis might not fit perfectly with the new update and making short-sighted class balancing decisions (a nerf) is pretty weak.

I am not saying that all players are all knowing in our predictions but looks at the economy has it worked? nope its more like Dofus but its fundamental problems have not be addressed.

I believe the same if not worse will happen here.

Who ever came up with the original Stasis idea was a genuis and I have done a lot of maths and they are already pretty balanced.


This post has been edited by JerryDB - June 22, 2013, 15:38:12.
Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2013-01-05
posté June 22, 2013, 18:19:43 | #29
Really?

First thing that comes up on my head is "Easy, Grou!".


I really feel dumb when so much about foggernauts have been discussed lately with zero feedback from you guys. Now you just appear out of a sudden talking about a complete change on the stasis branch making it even more foggy.


One good question is how do you guys even plan to describe how stasis damage works on the spells tab since its been hard to figure out from what you posted so far.


I have a simple solution to your problem that wouldnt interfer radically on Stasis foggers gameplay. Why don't nerf base damage to a half or something and increase the stasified debuff final effects? That way when you guys want to let stasis foggers out of something you just have to make it immune to stasified.

You could just sort out how much damage would be fair for a fogger to deal on something and balance base damage.

You might think stasis foggers are game-breaking because its not as equipment dependent as other classes to reach its maximum power but I have very clear on my mind the price I, particularly, have paid, to level my foggernaut and put up some strategies and a build to make it useful before the "revamps for all" party.

Stasis is supposed to be an apart element that cuts through resistance and deals average damage valuing the tactical aspect of the combat and it should stay as it is or just get erased for good.


So to say, if you guys really want to change things that radically, Im afraid I wont fry my brain and spend more money again since one free respec will be way not enough to make my fogger playable.


Once again, seems like stasis foggers will be let out of the fun.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2012-07-08
posté June 22, 2013, 18:57:13 | #30

Quote (BbeforeA @ 22 June 2013 15:28) *
You could also argue that xelors are not tanks whereas foggers can tank with a hell of a lot of HP and more resist. At the same time, xelors can not so easily set off xelors punishment and will be limited to 2/turn after their revamp.. Xelors are also damage dealers unlike foggers. So in a way it balances it out, losing damage for more tankness.
I agree it wasn't a fair comparison Punishment definitely has more limitations, Xelors are damage dealers, etc. so the damage should be higher on Punishment.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2013-01-05
posté June 22, 2013, 19:08:42 | #31
Afterall my main concern is to know if its a retorical question or you really want to know what we think.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2012-07-03
posté June 22, 2013, 20:03:57 | #32
fecas, xalurs, foggers~
seems like there's something to do with mechanical classes with complicated playstyle or you, Grou, went '1st april all day every day', im sorry if im too direct on what im saying.


i wish you had time to play a class at live server for at least a month before you come up with some 'hi, this month im nerfing %classname%' thread.

fyi, stasis steamers(ye, the ones you have been working on as well) right now cant invest into damage, and their damage output never was impressive anyhow, you excluded them from the backstab and crit dmg bonuses club, so, being a stasis dude, ones' only option is to invest into resist and crits.

if thats about 'all dmg' bonus like how feca in gobrog puts a glyph and does -70 and then equips vampsies and does -380, just because for some reason no fire damage or trap damage is applied on their fire traps, and moreover for some more mysterious reason it just depends on 'all damage' bonus you have; so if thats how now stasis build is going to work, then i just dont even.

so i foresee pathetic resist, pathetic damage, suggested usage: decoration at broken washing machines cemetry.


of course its not yet decided, and this is just your idea, but the fact that ideas like that popping up in your mind repeatedly lately makes me worry.


This post has been edited by khackt - June 22, 2013, 20:05:26.
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté June 23, 2013, 03:07:39 | #33
I'd rather see a Water Damage oriented branch rather than revamping the Stasis branch like that. The Foggernaut could have the stasis as a support feature that could help the three branches, something like Angrr from Sacriers.

This water damage oriented branch could have most of it's spells ignoring part of an enemy resist, to keep up the main specialty of the Stasis branch.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - June 23, 2013, 03:08:15.
posté June 23, 2013, 05:17:32 | #34
Well hi, I'm not from the Nox or Remi servers I'm actually from the Elbor server (Hispanic comunity) I came here because I feel that our community is never heard when it comes to feedback so I just hope that by posting here maybe, just maybe the Devs will see this.

I just wanted to share my case with the Stasis Fogger, when I created my fogger I never thought it would be good or decent, I just wanted to try this new gameplay Style, I wanted to play with it but I didn't liked the 12 AP build but then, I had this idea of making my Fogger a Tank, and so I did I made a set, worked to pay some parts, lvl up the Makabra I needed, grinded for drops I needed and even played Krosmaster Arena for the Krotector set (Took me months of frustration) and then leveled up my Fogger, it was great and fun to play it and actully was a succes in PvP, it was a fun and different way to battle, a Tank that slowly drains your WP, kills you and in the end it plays just like the official website says it does, patient, slowly but effective, this new revamp idea would compleatly destroy my build, it would force not only me but any other Fogger that decided to play a Tank role to change into a full damage set user , the change is so harsh that it's not even an option to be a Tank anymore, having a deffensive set means your damage will be way to low, but it will take the enemies resist into account which would make it so pattetic, if this revamp were to happen, I would've thrown months of planning, grinding, and playing Krosmaster (Which I hated) Because you guys couldn't plan ahead, and the worse part it's not even fair, Stasis gamebreaking? How about DD being able to still wreak enemies with 300% resist to their element? How about Osas being able to summon 2 powerful creatures and beat well equipped foes or high level enemies by abusing leadership and using a low level equipment set which is not expensive, easy to get and makes it a Easy to abusse character (Alpha predator at level 100+, srsly?)? How about the fact you can get Stunned to death by monsters or other players which just got their lucky day?

Ankama, Wakfu is a great MMORPG, heck it would still be great if it wasn't an MMO, yet you guys keep doing this kind of things were you just screw a lot of players beacause somethign YOU programmed turned to be "better" that what YOU wanted it to be.

Since the February update when the Masqueraiders were introduced (My favorite class BTW) I haven't been happy with your updates, it's just new frustration every month.

I'm going to be honest, I started to play Wakfu because it was fun and a great game, but Ankama keeps ruining it, to the point I'm only playing this because I really have nothing else to play sicne my country doesn't have a good stock of videogames, luckly I'll be going to the United States for a short vacation and I'm saving to buy a lot of games and consoles so I don't have to play this anymore.

Thanks for your time and for killing the fun of thsi class for me, my best wishes to everyone.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2011-12-16
posté June 23, 2013, 08:26:45 | #35
10 dollars says Grou never responds to this thread.

I play a Omi elemental fogger, these changes seem a bit drastic. Even if I am not always using stasis it does has its place.

Now GvG combat coming up there might be aspects of Stasis damage that would have a better advantage than other classes. .... That's not a bad thing. It would bring more people to play foggers for one. Secondly if the Stasis is too mean for GvG maybe change how the Monsters in GvG resist Stasis.

The devs are smart people, they have good ideas but too often they try to choose the short fix for things. Try to think about not changing a class over balancing the monsters.

Guaranteed more people will be upset about changes to a class than if GvG has a bit more res to Stasis.

@ Nombre we dont see much Dev responses here either.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-01-28
posté June 23, 2013, 09:44:28 | #36
COME ON!!! Really Guys? Really? Nerf one of the most useless classes in the game AGAIN??!? Just redo them. Redo them ALL. You guys need to sit down, play each class up to lvl 60 or so, and then think about what you're doing. I mean are you drunk when you make these decisions? LISTEN TO THE PLAYERS. That is your #1 Problem. You never listen to the minorities. Only if the entire playerbase says something. That's when your brain starts ticking. I don't want to be too mean about this, but we have to be firm here. PAY ATTENTION TO THE PLAYERS. If you hate stasis, why did you think it would be a good idea in the first place? Replace it with water. Make it turrets. Redo the specialties. Get some ****** work done. Stop acting and pretending like you care about all of us so much. When you only listen to 50,000 people, we kinda see behind your "Oh, So, Clever" Scheme. Just..... do something, ok? Thank you.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2012-07-03
posté June 23, 2013, 13:46:52 | #37

Quote
Well hi, I'm not from the Nox or Remi servers I'm actually from the Elbor server (Hispanic comunity) I came here because I feel that our community is never heard when it comes to feedback so I just hope that by posting here maybe, just maybe the Devs will see this.
well, you picked wrong server again: you should go to /fr/, devs talk to players there and (woah) even discuss their ideas with the community.


This post has been edited by khackt - June 23, 2013, 13:47:23.
Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2011-05-20
posté June 23, 2013, 14:11:46 | #38
One thing I really don't understand is deciding to nerf or buff (though lately it's all about nerfs) a class/spell because how good or bad it is in PvP.

You should look at PvM, first and foremost, not PvP. And if it really matters that much, why not have spells work differently in PvP and PvM? That would balance PvP a lot, while not ruining our PvM, as PvP is right now most classes have a clear counter (for example: Cra/Iop, Enis/anything that can outdamage their heals, Xelor/any class that can push..)


This post has been edited by MoonBears101 - June 23, 2013, 14:11:59.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté June 23, 2013, 16:31:40 | #39
Would be be interesting if your Stasis % could affect your damage.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-07
posté June 23, 2013, 16:50:45 | #40
After running the numbers, this change would be fine IF Ubs did not have all of their resistances at the same high level. But if that remains the same then a foggernaught just couldn't get enough damage to beat their resists with stasis.


This post has been edited by HakazabaJub - June 23, 2013, 16:51:29.