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Member Since : 2008-05-13
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posté Today - 01:00:18 | #1
Fire Sacri is not that hard with earth and water build kikui, I did kill two other days. You just have to run to the edge of the map and protect your back, then summon two or three inflatables and shield yourself. After that summon 1 lethargic to break his combos and then start attacking. I like to use Fertilizer on Sac + Fertilizer on me = some shield plus 1 MP steal that increases the Tree healing. With the shields up Punishment won't hit that much and the inflatables will maintain your health where it should be (if you get 11 AP you can do even better with double grass and fertilizer)

Greedies are also good but they die easily with Burning Blood, so I don't like to use them, I basically summon a support team before anything else and slowly drain the HP of the sacri and set my time up to Clinging effect, so I can finish the sacri and invest all my remaining AP on shields to avoid death.

The Voodoll helps a lot too, because of Doll Link (which can be increased to 20% reduction with that -10% final damage effect from master stats)

I would not win a fight against a level 160 one though.

EDIT:

About the fact I am shocked, have you ever fought fire and air Eniripsas? They can heal themselves with your dolls, Sadist Mark works on them, it is really annoying. Also the Psykosis Flask is a cheap spell that does a lot of damage and easily kills your greedies. Water Eni? Certainly it is easy to beat. But I would not say the same for air and fire ones...


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - September 03, 2014, 01:11:34.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #769515  Replies : 8  Views : 125
posté Yesterday - 21:38:39 | #2
Air and Earth is less doll dependent, but I suppose you can still use them in some situations, but most of the damage will usually come from the Sadida. Whenever they buff Blocks and make their lock high enough, I can see this build starting to be decent, because you just have to summon a few blocks, stack lone sadida and kill the enemy :] after the blocks are summoned you can also summon ultra powerfuls for additional damage. I just don't advise to summon the ultra powerfuls first because they die fast, you need something to keep the enemy distracted. Unfortunately now it is not possible because Blocks lock hasn't been fixed.

I'd like to point one more thing, whenever they boost the number of spells we can have at maximum level this build might get good, as you can level other skills that you would not be able to level, like Poisoned Wind, which is a cheap and good spell that can be used when you have some AP left, and that usually happens when you're summoning dolls or taking care of them.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - September 02, 2014, 21:40:00.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #769470  Replies : 100  Views : 1797
posté Yesterday - 21:33:37 | #3
The difference between a Sadida and an Osamodas is that the Osamodas DEPENDS on his summons, while the Sadida doesn't. Inflatables have too much HP right now. I have been able to win almost every fight just by summoning lots of inflatables that keep my health at 100% every turn, I am afraid that they will nerf the HP of some dolls because of that and I am ok with that as long as they fix the other skills that really need to be boosted.

Unfortunately Sadidas are not meant to play with 8 summons out, that is just a fun and illusive idea that is far from being practical in most fights, I don't know why some playerss still cry for longer doll duration when we can summon two every turn... in two turns you can surround the enemy and make it unable to move... I really hope they manage to balance Sadidas in the future and I doubt that it will be possible to do so by allowing us to summon armies in a few turns, they must work around that carefully to avoid making the class too strong or too weak.

Note: I was really shocked when I managed to win a fight against a level 160 Eniripsa (I'm 145) on Beta. If you havent noticed a few levels of difference means a lot now, because your health can increase in percentage and your damage bonus increases a lot. The Eni simply could do around 3000 damage PER TURN, with Gangrene Flask and Psykosis as well as heal himself around 2500 HP on refund mark crits, and I still managed to beat it in about 20 turns... He also had almost 8000 HP while I have 5500 and he started first xD


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - September 02, 2014, 21:45:49.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #769468  Replies : 8  Views : 125
posté Yesterday - 01:15:59 | #4
@kurokat

What do you mean by that? We will be able to have more than just, for example, 2/3 elementary skills of two elements leveled?


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #769001  Replies : 3  Views : 77
posté Yesterday - 00:32:50 | #5
@violence

I have tested the Earth and Water build and it may not be the best build for PvP. It is good mainly on PvM. The air dolls are quite good, but without healing you get eaten by classes that can heal themselves. The air/earth may be good as pure lone sadi with 12 AP, just like we have right now, but it is not good for those who want to use dolls.

I have won about half of the fights I had, differently from the previous build. If you want to go for dolls I would pick earth water or air water, because right now with the current changes it is not the best build for that purpose.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - September 02, 2014, 00:33:34.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #768990  Replies : 100  Views : 1797
posté September 01, 2014, 21:21:47 | #6
@frenetiqueviolence

I will see what I can do tonight, right now I need to study for my exam. I want to try that build on beta with summons, whenever I do I will post some information there.

I can give some insight though... as Earth and Air I would not have healing summons nor healing ability, thus 6~7 MP base is a must because of Tree. Combined with Fertilizer (2x) you can still receive about 600 HP every turn. I need to think about the strategies though... as Earth Air I would go for 11 AP to make sure I cast at least one wild grass on myself every turn. I am going to make a tanky build with some resists and block to cover the lack of healing, the damage bonus I should get from my dolls and from lone sadi. hmm

Anyways, when I test it I will let you know ^^


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - September 01, 2014, 21:24:18.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #768895  Replies : 100  Views : 1797
posté September 01, 2014, 20:06:40 | #7
The Brambly Armor nerf is not final, they changed that because the shield effects were too strong with higher mastery and higher HP. Dy7 posted on french forums that they will make Brambly Armor absorb around 70% of the damage dealt.

For the whiners, you can't build a class in a completely idealized universe. You must understand whats good, whats too good and what has to be good, if you just pick up what is not good you may end up with a completely broken class in the end.

Thankfully most of Sadida players do not think like you 2 xD


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #768813  Replies : 100  Views : 1797
posté September 01, 2014, 13:51:38 | #8
If they ever make the cost of dolls standard they should take into account a nerf on some dolls.

  • Greedy: ok as it is right now.
  • Ultra Powerful: if it costs 3 AP the damage bonus must be reduced, something around 50% should be enough.
  • Inflatable: heals must be reduced, because it has decent HP and heals a lot right now.
  • The other dolls need buffs, so I am not really going to talk about them.


The changes to the Sadida Class on beta are basic but are amazing, that shows that we don't really need a complete overhaul right now, even though I would love to see one that focus on other types of summons such as plants, maybe we can get that later right? I hope the devs have some plans on Voodoll, Explodoll and for the other dolls. Doll Link doesn't sound too bad with the HP boost right now, but I think that the spell could have another effect to make it more worth leveling. Being able to have dolls out and keep the Lone Sadida bonus expands even more the versatility of the class, which is it's main role (and not necessarily summoning).


For now, these are the suggestions that I think that would fix the class without a huge revamp.

  • Sacrificial Doll: replaces Lethargic. Sacrificial Doll should be an air doll.
  • Madoll: make it take 1 AP and 1 MP from the target. Make it easier to summon.
  • Explodoll: increase the effects to something reasonable, 30 chromatic damage at level 150, 40 at 200 would be more than enough.
  • Doll Link: I have no idea for that, but maybe if the Sadida started its turn close to its dolls it could get control over them? Like an opposite effect to Lone Sadida, if you stay close you can control dolls for free, if you stay far away you have higher damage.
  • Doll Seeds could have higher HP, like 15% of Sadida's HP and enemies can kill it if they manage to take all of it's health (as enemies would not be able to trigger sacrificial doll summoning anymore).
  • Voodoll: bring back the totem with a restriction when summoning it related to path blocking, increase it's HP to 55-60% with Knowledge of Dolls maxed to make it worth using.
  • Remove Earthquake and replace by something that's worth leveling.
  • Make Rust give general damage bonus instead of just water.



This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - September 01, 2014, 13:55:52.
Thread : Feedback  Preview message : #768588  Replies : 8  Views : 543
posté September 01, 2014, 13:19:00 | #9
Stopped reading when you said that I disagree with AP refund. Have you read my post? (if you want to make I point I suggest to write less because I bet less than half of the people read what you say). And it is obvious that this is just the beginning, I have said it all the times, it is just that you guys seem to want the current changes TO BE CHANGED AGAIN INSTEAD OF WAITING FOR THE OTHER CHANGES BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE.

Some Sadida players are really whiners. Now I really see what it is all about and I am starting to understand those players that say that sadidas are never satisfied.

I sugges to Wait till the final update as it is clear that the lack of testing you guys have had and the necessity of playing with barbies has more importance than the potential of the class. I am one hundred percent sure that they are going further with the class, but right now with the current changes I am happy.

In a hypothetical scenario where they hear you I can only predict two scenarios:

  • Damage, healing and shield nerf for the sake of making dolls stronger.
  • Dolls extremely cheap but really weak.
 


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - September 01, 2014, 13:34:42.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #768582  Replies : 100  Views : 1797
posté September 01, 2014, 04:07:36 | #10
Not really Neneko. Inflatables have high HP compared to Greedies and UP's, if you summon them first and the players kill them, they'll be spending a lot of AP to do so and you still gain time - the most important thing for Sadidas. (my inflatables have 1500~ HP).

If they do not kill the inflatables, they damage you, but during the next turn you just throw two attack dolls and let the inflatables heal you, if the enemy wants to kill the attack dolls you're going to gain more time because you'll have your health healed by the dolls without receiving too much damage. It's the basic. After that you have control over the situation, the enemy is in your hands xD you're free to vomit dolls! XD

I can post one thousand more pictures, it's not just because they don't know what I am going to do, it is because Sadidas are versatile and they can adapt to many situations. They are not like Rogues that start their turns shooting and do that till the end of the fight.

I am not motivating them to nerf Sadis, devs don't read this forum anyways. I am just showing that the latest buffs made Sadidas able to fight fairly, and because of that we need to be cautious before asking for a lower cost on dolls or for higher damage.

And I have stated since the beginning that there is still many skills that have to be balanced, the latest changes were good and don't really need an update. You'll understand me by the day they change doll link, Explodoll and the other four dolls  


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - September 01, 2014, 04:09:03.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #768471  Replies : 100  Views : 1797
posté September 01, 2014, 02:44:39 | #11
They die in two turns and there is no problem in that, as long as you can maintain the fight.

I have even used Blocks in this fight because the Feca had only a few dodge points.

I just settle the healers first and then go for damage... you cant compete against damage dealers without building a solid healer team first xD I have only died for 12 AP ecaflip that one turned me with 3x Three Cards and for an Air/Water Sadi (since I am defensive, I have weakness against offensive summon builds).






If my dolls are on low HP is just cast Dolly Sacrifice and summon another one... free heals and new doll xD



EDIT: about Osas, Osas do not have healing skills with their summons out, they don't have lone sadida buff, they dont have shield effects with their summons out, they dont have mobility skills without not being in dragon form and they dont have flexible good damage dealing skills. If they happen to have anything of these, its only through their summons.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - September 01, 2014, 03:10:48.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #768444  Replies : 100  Views : 1797
posté September 01, 2014, 01:31:25 | #12
4 AP cost I am still slightly against it as I sense they may drop the damage bonus of UP... I think that if they made it return all AP invested to change UP's spell it would be fair to cost 5 AP. Ultra Powerful would then be some sort of mini double XD

For Lethargic, it's already good in PvP, -1 AP every turn destroys many builds. However in PvM it's really pointless... -2 AP sounds good, but again, it's not going to be very good in PvE, we needed something more on lethargic and I have no idea of what it should be.

As for Madoll, since Dofus it is known as an ''annoyance'', maybe it could take MP and attract the enemy 1 square toward the Maddoll, it could then be useful as a map manipulator too, or maybe apply a state to the enemy that changes the enemy facing direction at the end of every turn to wherever the madoll is located (don't know what would happen with more than one madoll out though xD).


Edit:

To show the current beta sadi's potential ( WHICH IS NOT FINAL, considering there are many things to fix).

This strategy works against most DPS classes (except Rogue). I start my turn with 1 Inflatable and then shield myself and use Tree. Second turn I repeat that. Third turn I summon one more inflatable (if needed) and then create a lethargic. My health reaches around 80~90% every turn. After I have everything I needed settled up I can summon Greedies to do some damage and start attacking r and I use Fertilizer or Wild Grass to have some shield.

Won against Iops and Fire Sacriers so far and I havent used lone Sadi buff because of dolls. They get pretty mad... Ah don't ask me why hes saying walter, maybe it's his older brother XD




Loving so much this strategy. I think you can apply that to water and air hybrids but it has less shielding effect but more damage. Ahh, and the mask double was already gone... he had pretty bad stats but did some nasty dmg.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - September 01, 2014, 02:15:18.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #768404  Replies : 100  Views : 1797
posté September 01, 2014, 01:14:55 | #13
Neneko is being precipitated, you can't compare UP to Madoll, Lethargics and The Block as it's clear that they have not been touched yet. Wait till they change these two dolls before going further. The Block barely has lock in it while most mobs have 200+ dodge (level 120 mobs), it's obvious that the change is not complete.

As for UP and Greedy, it's ok. UP has ranged damage and can cast every air skill, it's just that it costs too much to change it's spell but I believe they will (they must) bring an AP refund, considering they have done that you can forget about the idea of making those two dolls cost the same. On the other hand If they leave it like that, you can't simply make UP cost 3 AP like Greedy mainly because UP has higher base damage and reduces resistance, if they don't want to refund the spell cost when changing UP's spell the doll at 4 AP cost should be more than balanced.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - September 01, 2014, 01:16:32.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #768394  Replies : 100  Views : 1797
posté August 31, 2014, 23:00:28 | #14
Osamodas do not have a 150% damage passive at their disposal plus the only skill that has decent damage when not in Dragon Form is boohowl, hence that is why Osas should have better and cheaper summons.

I can handle most classes with my dolls right now on beta, as water/earth and as air/water (tried it now). The dolls HP are more than enough, Greedies have about 950 HP and it's unrewarding for most classes to spend several AP on killing them. You need to plan how you fight and not just vomit dolls, try summoning 2 greedies and then 1 ultra powerful during next turn, or maybe 1 ultra powerful and then shielding yourself, or maybe two greedies and doing damage and then next turn, if the dolls are alive you can summon two ultra powerfuls, I am pretty sure the enemy will be more than annoyed with 4 dolls around him. After they buff block, you'll be able to tank enemies with a doll that may have 1800 HP if you manage to reach around 5500 HP...

And if you manage to keep distance you will still have 150% damage bonus.

Explore your builds on beta and fight other classes and mobs, it's not about taking a look at how long and how hard it is to maintain your dolls alive or how costy it is to summon them. It's about how efficient the class is in both PvP and PvM, right now I can see that it is good in both cases, despite the fact that some dolls still have high cost or die too fast.

Edit: of course the class needs strategy, but it already has it...
Note: I have just found out a Iop killer strategy XD, spam 1 inflatable per turn and shield yourself or attack the iop, INFLATABLE EVERYWHERE. Killed 2 lvl 145 iops like that without using not even 1 MP to move.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - August 31, 2014, 23:45:00.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #768334  Replies : 100  Views : 1797
posté August 31, 2014, 22:40:29 | #15
Neneko, the problem is that if they buff the doll spam build without restricting Lone Sadida once again these builds will get overpowered.

Plus you don't really need to summon two Ultra Powerfuls per turn...

The other dolls must be changed and I have pointed that, I am just saying the the those three dolls are already fine.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #768321  Replies : 100  Views : 1797
posté August 31, 2014, 21:46:24 | #16
@Rokugatsu

I tested PvE also and they seem to be even better than in PvP hehe. I did solo 5 monsters at fungopole and Greedies were doing 800 damage on crit on jumping fungus that have low water resist. The lowest damage were on blackspores, 300 on crits. Inflatable heals are extremely good, mine heals 900~ on crits. Sadidas are strong, what happens sometimes is that people want to summon dolls every turn and it's not all about that, it really depends on the situation of with you're dealing. If you just summon dolls every single fight you're restricting yourself to a kind of gameplay that is not the best option in most cases.


I can't imagine how good they're going to be when the lock of Blocks increase and they fix sacrificial dolls.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - August 31, 2014, 21:49:36.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #768300  Replies : 100  Views : 1797
posté August 31, 2014, 21:33:18 | #17
I managed to beat many classes on beta, even Rogues. Earth rogues are sitting ducks when you manage to summon 2~3 dolls, even if they start first, you can heal up and start spamming dolls.

Now, against some targets that have decent area of effect damage the best way to fight is to pop up 1 greedy per turn and spend the rest of the AP on damage. For classes like Feca, I summon 1 greedy per turn and keep my shield up and slowly win the fight.

It is simply that I even find that I'm a little too strong sometimes, when I find myself beating overpowered classes xD I havent tested the air branch, but so far earth and water is quite strong (with 50% shields, yes)


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #768292  Replies : 100  Views : 1797
posté August 31, 2014, 20:12:42 | #18
I don't know but I find the current costs really fine, we just need those bad developed skills and some dolls to be changed (the ones i have already mentioned) and an AP refund when changing UP's skill, but Greedy, Inflatable and Ultra Powerful are fine with the current costs.

Dolls are not made to last an entire fight, if they last 2 to 3 turns it is completely ok and balanced. Greedy deals 72 damage at level 200 and it costs 3 AP to summon it (Mudoll deals 73 damage at 100 directly...). 3 AP spells usually do from 67 to 90ish damage (depending on class, range and effects). If dolls last 2 turns, it's 144 damage for 3 AP plus line of sight blocking... Asking for more HP simple doesn't sound fair, specially when we already can summon dolls without necessarily losing the Lone Sadida effect. Ultra Powerful costs more (5 AP) but it reduces the target's resistance, it's like a 5 AP spell that reduces resistance and deals 86 damage, which is also balanced. As for The Inflatable, well, it's damn good right now.

I like to play with 1~2 dolls out only, I just use them as ''damage add-ons'' but I do not focus on them. Maybe they don't want Sadidas to focus just on summoning and buffing dolls... who knows... let's see the final changes. All I have to say is that half of the dolls we have are finally balanced.

Edit:

Let's just do some simple math:

First turn
-90 HP (Bramble)
-72 HP (Greedy A)
-92 HP (Wild Grass)
= 254

Second Turn
-90 HP (Bramble)
-72 HP (Greedy A)
-72 HP (Greedy B )
-92 HP (Wild Grass)
= 326

This without counting the secondary damage bonus to greeds and Green Guard's effect.

Let's compare with a class that has fairly high base damage skills, Enutrof

First Turn
-60 HP (Meteor)
-60 HP (Meteor)
-203 HP (Hotmagma)
= 323

Second Turn
-60 HP (Meteor)
-60 HP (Meteor)
-203 HP (Hotmagma)
-118 HP (Hotmagma +2 Mines)
= 441

Oh, yeah, Enutrof can easily outdamage Sadidas and still do area of effect damage. It is not like that, Enutrofs are glasscannons, they got no means of defending themselves, all they do is run away, fake death and do damage. Sadidas can heal, can shield and block the way with dolls. The base damage of Sadida right now is balanced, all we need are the other skills to be fixed and some elemental spells to be changed/improved, the three basic dolls are good and I am afraid that any new change will make them or too weak or too strong.

I did not compare with Iops or Rogues because it's obvious that they've got all advantage of the world at their hands and they can beat pretty much every class in game if they have higher initiative.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - August 31, 2014, 20:45:56.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #768268  Replies : 100  Views : 1797
posté August 30, 2014, 17:20:50 | #19
I'd like to add something to the post.

Most osas seek the highest level mob in order to inflict more consistent damage, but right now after the latest changes to beta server, it is possible to have strong low level mobs at your disposal.

The Crobeak, for example, has a 72 base water healing spell that heals the entire team! I was able to reach 1k healing on crits with boohowl and whip buff. Sadly the HP of low level mobs havent been fixed yet, so it's still really low but that may change later.

This also makes it possible for Osas to summon multiple beasts, I like the combo of Crobeak + Snowy Crobak + Black Wabbit. It provides good tanking, good damage, MP drain, map control and healing. There are many summons that are going to be useful after patch. You guys should take a look at the lower level mobs!

The Crobeak can still do about 600 damage on critical hits at my level, which is 145, and take 2 MP! The latest changes made Osa builds more diversified, it's not all about whipping and howling anymore I wish they enabled us to increase or decrease the level of mobs (affecting the level of their spells). This could lead to a true summoner class xD I'd have lvl 100 Gobballs :O


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - August 30, 2014, 17:23:53.
Thread : Osamodas  Preview message : #767809  Replies : 19  Views : 1322
posté August 29, 2014, 23:58:45 | #20
Well the class is much better right now, I can summon one, two or even three dolls and keep my lone sadida bonus, this is quite good I have to say. But there are still some things missing, as for the Sacrificial Doll, the easiest way to make it good is to change it's damage type into chromatic and let it have 70~100% of our characteristics.

I hope they have something in mind already for september update, I am happy with the latest changes but still not happy enough to start playing my sadida once again. We still have that useless earthquake spell filling one spell slot, the explodoll, unbalanced madoll and lethargic... the entire legacy of Grou...


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - August 29, 2014, 23:59:35.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #767589  Replies : 100  Views : 1797