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MULTIMAN: concept and how to get them
Short Strich * Member Since 2011-12-18
posté November 24, 2013, 15:23:03 | #161
Love the idea, this time Ankama has done great work, would love to see more awesome content in 2014 ! Keep the good work guys !!!


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté November 24, 2013, 17:36:24 | #162

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 24 November 2013 01:38) *

Quote (Asthis @ 23 November 2013 13:20) *
Erm, you can have dolls and sidekicks at the same time. Multimen aren't summons, they're like a second/third character. And Azael said he wants to do away with doll AI and just make them directly controllable.
The reason one would play as summoner is to have a decoy that will take dmg for you. If multimen itself fulfil this role then you don't need to be summoner class anymore - you just "summon" the multimen to assist you instead. Also Lone Sadida will keep increasing with multimen on the field - so why should i bother with dolls?

That's like saying party members are useless because you have dolls.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2013-03-30
posté November 24, 2013, 17:49:32 | #163

Quote (Asthis @ 24 November 2013 17:36) *

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 24 November 2013 01:38) *

Quote (Asthis @ 23 November 2013 13:20) *
Erm, you can have dolls and sidekicks at the same time. Multimen aren't summons, they're like a second/third character. And Azael said he wants to do away with doll AI and just make them directly controllable.
The reason one would play as summoner is to have a decoy that will take dmg for you. If multimen itself fulfil this role then you don't need to be summoner class anymore - you just "summon" the multimen to assist you instead. Also Lone Sadida will keep increasing with multimen on the field - so why should i bother with dolls?

That's like saying party members are useless because you have dolls.

Eh, it's kinda true tho..

For the most part that's the exact reason my main is an Osa.
**I didn't wanna rely on other players or have to wait for them to play their turns out.

IE: I think party members are useless because I have my summons.

Continuing this train of thought.. the fact multimen basically turn every class into a "Summoner" without the huge drawback of building for summon dmg, means there's no real reason to play a Summoner class.

**Why be a summoner with mediocre dmg, when I can be a Boss with the dps and STILL have ma summons?

#FoodForThought.


This post has been edited by ShadowFacts - November 24, 2013, 17:58:10.
Reason for edit : buggy forum.
Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2013-11-05
posté November 24, 2013, 18:01:49 | #164
I am not here to prove that this new feature will be the game's downfall or transcendence, I'm just here to explain why I am for it and why I am excited that this will happen soon.


I used to play a lot back in Beta. There were many random people to befriend and my own personal group of friends played this with me. Back then, we bandwagoned on any high populous guild that we could find for the benefits and the sort. Even then, no matter how I made it out, it was still impersonal. The community was a lot kinder than most MMO's for sure, but still very impersonal. People you didn't know and people that would ignore you. People too high level to stop by yours again to help you.


As time moved onward, my group of personal friends lost interest and moved on. I tried to stay for a little while, but without people, the game was too hard to solo and a lot of the guild members weren't interested to help me because a lot of them were too high or they too had their own friends to help them and not interested to take in stragglers.


I ended up quitting and coming back nearly a year later which is a few weeks from now. Tagged along by old group of friends. The only difference now is that our schedules are all too volatile. The game is still too hard to do solo or even with one or two people, we can't run high level dungeons if not all six people are present, and more often time than not, that is the case.


More and more now, our schedules are becoming volatile, the times we are awake, away, or just busy is increasing. I've found myself roaming around the game trying to figure out what to do by myself over 80% of the time I've been on Wakfu. There are things I want to obtain and gather on my own with minimal people so I won't bother the very small time that my entire group IS on, but like I mentioned before, I can't solo or even do with one or two extra people to tag along.


This was about the time I found out about Multimen. I love Wakfu, I want to play it for a long time, but as things were going I was very afraid of the increasing chances that I would not stay due to the lack of people, lack of progress, and lack of interest because of these two other factors. If things go the same as they are, I wouldn't last a week with this game. Now though, I have reason to stay even longer, a reason to be able to progress on my own. Something to spend that 80% of my time. And that is Multimen.


It will, without a doubt, no matter how powerful or weak the multimen will be, they will be the lifeblood of my progress in the game. I won't have to rely on having one lucky day were all my other friends are on and we go leveling, and I'll get to farm and gather things for my crafting much much easier. I simply love the idea of Multimen.


And to be frank, I don't care at all about the dwindling amount of players that this game is having, I actually feel very much relieved that this is the case. The less people there are, the more I'm able to manipulate the ecosystems for my benefit, places to farm for resources and easier time completing the environmental quests so that I can more easily level. It has a player-base just big enough to have a near-thriving marketplace and the less people there are the more the ecosystems remain balanced and the area bonuses stay the same.

No matter what you do, an MMO will always be impersonal. That is the nature of the internet. This feature is only here to help people like myself, so that we may have an easier time of things from the otherwise impossible progression curve that solo players would have had. I am very grateful for Multimen and I hope they turn out to be just what I needed, thank you Ankama.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2013-05-28
posté November 24, 2013, 20:57:27 | #165
You have a point, but the last paragraph makes me cry.

One day ill make a personal mmo! Then you will be sorry! Muahahahaha


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-01-23
posté November 24, 2013, 22:59:57 | #166
I'd like to see what other sidekicks the game will bring. I personally dislike the whole "superhero" stereotype, so the more sidekicks to choose from, the better.


Short Strich * Member Since 2012-01-09
posté November 26, 2013, 01:36:51 | #167
I am a summoner and I will summon more pets :3

I still think Sadis should be revamped abit more tho.

And agreed, more multimen is good multimen!


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2009-04-12
posté November 26, 2013, 02:50:52 | #168

Quote (SSBKewkky @ 24 November 2013 22:59) *
I'd like to see what other sidekicks the game will bring. I personally dislike the whole "superhero" stereotype, so the more sidekicks to choose from, the better.
I think a clan type of sidekick could be interesting, like riktus clan members perhaps, but a lot more useful and stronger maybe..


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-05-01
posté November 26, 2013, 04:18:54 | #169
Some Sidekicks I'd like to see:

PekiPeki
Bellaphone
Red Wyrmling from Dofus
Cawwot
Magic Riktus Bandits
Tormentators (Elemental Knights Guns)
Bwork Magus
Gargoyl
Oaussaingue
Slayhound puppy from Kwismas
Lord Crow (From Dofus)
Mama Koalak
Karne Rider
Joris
Mush'd from Brakmar, near Ougaa, esp. an exploding Spimush
Anything Tofu themed (but especially the mutant tofu from the old Wakfu bestiary teaser)
Oto Mustam
Wishdragon in Mod skin
Izmar elementals
Rib dog-chafers (From Dofus)
Ouginaks
The little peeing ghost dog from the original Wakfu bestiary teaser lists. God it was so cute.
National Science Teams, like the Archeologists from Wild Estate, that can summon Bwork teams w/totems.
Exploding Surcraprise present


This post has been edited by TommyTrouble - November 26, 2013, 05:17:18.
Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2013-10-31
posté November 26, 2013, 09:15:05 | #170

Quote (TommyTrouble @ 26 November 2013 04:18) *
Some Sidekicks I'd like to see:

[...]
Joris
[...]

Really? That wouldn't leave anything at all for us to kill as he'd just tackle it all.  


Miss Winter Fashion Victim 2012 * Member Since 2012-12-14
posté November 26, 2013, 19:59:58 | #171

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 23 November 2013 12:37) *

Quote (Karakedi @ 23 November 2013 00:00) *

Quote (krowakot @ 22 November 2013 22:45) *

Quote (Karakedi @ 22 November 2013 20:47) *
The game is ruled by those multi-boxers nowadays. I don't see anyone making arguments about those people.
Umm, what? People talk about the problem of multiaccounting all the time with this thread as main example:
Click here



Yes people talk about it on that thread, but my main point was actually that people are not complaining about it on this topic!!

Many people are concerned and "afraid" about this new feature because this game will no longer be an "mmo" in their eyes if Ankama continues planning to implement this new feature. I was pointing out that fearing is not really necessary since this game is already ruled mostly by multi-boxers (solo players).

It is inevitable, as long as this game continues being a sandbox (which always will) Ankama can't really prevent people from playing on multiple accounts unless they change it to action mmo...
People don't talk much about it here BECAUSE they have already said it many times in other topics.

People still remind about this even here to make people remember what has been already said, and to show that the issue still exist and that this new feature will not solve the issue itself.

These multimens will change the following:

Multiaccounters - they won't need to pay/play on 6 accounts but instead just on 2, wich will make them progress with levels and drops even faster. They will grow bored of content really soon.

Single account users - they will now be able to not wait for other people, nor even bother searching/asking for them/adding people to friend list/joining guild for the purpose to have people to play with. They will do that but they won't need it as much anymore. They could "clear" all game content with just 1 friend who also has 2 multimens. There will be no point for them to join or make any guild, unless for the stat bonuses. They will find it easy to level up, no fight will be as challanging as it was anymore.

What Ankama is doing is allowing single account users to play this game alone. So from now on, not only multiaccounters will play with "themself only", but also single account users. Good job ankama - you have killed the social aspect of the game that require people to make relationships. I can already see the increased number of self centered big bullies who doesn't even care if they will make all of the server to hate them, as they won't need anyone.

When new player start Dofus and he see all people running multiple accounts all alone, each following one another - do you think he feels like he have a chance to play this game well on 1 account? Does it encourage it to pay for more accounts? No it doesn't. It makes that person not even bother playing such game.

Do you think that it will be different with Wakfu? It won't. And now people won't even need to be limited by their computer capabilities to fill the slots of the party. Ankama simply is making it easier to play with more then just 1 character. They said they will never make it easier for multi accounters, but well - they just did. And to make things worse now 1 account will act as "3 accounts" with these multimens.

So they are just making things worse.
I don't really see how this is worse than it already is? Multi-clienters rule the game.

First off, I'm guessing that mulitmen are not as good as actual classes. The only thing multimen really save for multi-clienters is money. Sure it might cost a bit for getting the multimen but they would only have to pay for two clients instead of six if they wanted. But would they get through the game content quicker than just 6-boxing it? I don't think so. It would be about the same amount of time if not a little more depending on how good the multimen are.

Literally everything you are saying is how the game already is. I have seen people join the game and stick around for a little but eventually leave because they don't have 1. a good guild that caters to them, 2. an abundance of high-levels characters who don't want to sit around and leech them, 3. people their level to do content with.

Why is it so bad if people want to solo? You don't have to play like that. The reason people multi-client is because they don't have others to play with: Not the right classes, or everyone else is already multiclienting, or people don't have room in their groups, or they just want to play by themselves etc.

Multimen give new players, solo-clienters, multi-clienters a chance to save money on monthly subscription fees, and be able to tackle content they normally wouldn't be able to.


Scary Polter * Member Since 2012-02-03
posté November 27, 2013, 17:53:56 | #172

Quote (aurevoirmika @ 26 November 2013 19:59) *
Why is it so bad if people want to solo? You don't have to play like that.
This is, where you're wrong. Go play Dofus on 1 account and try to achieve something on high level. Almost impossible, which means that you actually have to multiclient.

And Wakfu is coming to the same point. Just look at the content difficulty on high level. It's already balanced around multiaccounters. Ridiculously low drop rate means, that you will have to repeat dungeons dozens of times. And no, not with group of random strangers found at zaap, but with few very specific classes.
That's HUGE issue for group of 6 real people, who have to coordinate their free time to do the content together and they simply may not play the right classes.
But for multiaccounter? No problem. I'll just log my alts whenever I want and if I need some Eni or Panda, I'll make another alt and leech him to high level in a week.

Imo, Ankama should fight with multiclienting and focus on making the game more pleasant for single account players. But instead, they're doing the exact opposite. They really couldn't choose worse direction for Wakfu.




My point is, that in the long run multiaccounters and singleaccounters can't live together in 1 game, because there are only 2 possibilites:
- the content is fine for multiaccounters, but too hard for singleaccounters
- the content is fine for singleaccounters, but too easy for multiaccounters (they will finish it too fast, get bored and leave)

And it's not only about PvE. Once PvP will be more developed in Wakfu, it will be totally dominated by stupidly farmed specially-made-for-pvp alts of multiclienters. Just like in Dofus.


This post has been edited by krowakot - November 27, 2013, 18:04:43.
Miss Winter Fashion Victim 2012 * Member Since 2012-12-14
posté November 28, 2013, 02:46:42 | #173
Having multiple accounts does not equal exclusive solo play. So no, I'm not wrong.



If you read my post, I already said people who multi-client rule the game. That's why I think multiman are a good solution for the time being for people who want solo and don't want to pay for multiple accounts just to catch up with everyone else.


This post has been edited by aurevoirmika - November 28, 2013, 02:47:00.
Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-05-15
posté November 28, 2013, 14:23:36 | #174
One question as it is still not clear to me.


I know the Multimen are bound to your account but:

  • Will we have 1 Multimen on each char when purchasing a Multimen?? So 5 Multimen in total on that account.
  • Or will we have only 1 Multimen on the whole account just like the pet's??



Scary Polter * Member Since 2012-02-03
posté November 28, 2013, 19:31:00 | #175

Quote (aurevoirmika @ 28 November 2013 02:46) *
If you read my post, I already said people who multi-client rule the game. That's why I think multiman are a good solution for the time being for people who want solo and don't want to pay for multiple accounts just to catch up with everyone else.
The things are bad, so it's ok to make them even worse, instead of fixing problems? What kind of logic is that?


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-10-06
posté November 28, 2013, 19:33:01 | #176

Quote (krowakot @ 28 November 2013 19:31) *

Quote (aurevoirmika @ 28 November 2013 02:46) *
If you read my post, I already said people who multi-client rule the game. That's why I think multiman are a good solution for the time being for people who want solo and don't want to pay for multiple accounts just to catch up with everyone else.
The things are bad, so it's ok to make them even worse, instead of fixing problems? What kind of logic is that?
If you had read her post this helps fix the problem instead of making it worse.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté November 29, 2013, 17:39:31 | #177

Quote (ShadowFacts @ 24 November 2013 17:49) *

Quote (Asthis @ 24 November 2013 17:36) *
That's like saying party members are useless because you have dolls.

Eh, it's kinda true tho..

For the most part that's the exact reason my main is an Osa.
**I didn't wanna rely on other players or have to wait for them to play their turns out.

IE: I think party members are useless because I have my summons.

Continuing this train of thought.. the fact multimen basically turn every class into a "Summoner" without the huge drawback of building for summon dmg, means there's no real reason to play a Summoner class.

**Why be a summoner with mediocre dmg, when I can be a Boss with the dps and STILL have ma summons?

#FoodForThought.

I don't understand how you can come to that conclusion. I'm not even sure I should be responding to this. Osa's can have Multimen and whatever class you think has high DPS can have Multimen.

The Osa still has summons the DPS does not. Whatever you did with them before, you can still do now. Maybe the Osa wants an offensive Multiman because their summons are tanking. Meanwhile the DPS chooses a defensive Multiman to keep monsters off their back.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté November 29, 2013, 21:00:49 | #178
There is another issue about multimen that nobody seem to mentioned. We can test them now, but what about the new people who will join later? How would they be able to test them before buying them?

And what about the new comers who will download the game, check the boutique and see them there - they will learn from forum that they can test them now but to do so they need to be subscribed first. Here's where issue appear: they will have to sub (and get the multimen) before testing it!


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - November 29, 2013, 21:02:22.
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2011-06-29
posté November 29, 2013, 21:04:28 | #179

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 29 November 2013 21:00) *
There is another issue about multimen that nobody seem to mentioned. We can test them now, but what about the new people who will join later? How would they be able to test them before buying them?

And what about the new comers who will download the game, check the boutique and see them there - they will learn from forum that they can test them now but to do so they need to be subscribed first. Here's where issue appear: they will have to sub (and get the multimen) before testing it!

The Knight of Astrub will always be free and available to everyone, presumably even those unsubbed as it's an astrub area quest to obtain him.

One of the four elemental multimen will be free each week.


Short Strich * Member Since 2012-01-09
posté December 01, 2013, 02:43:52 | #180
OK, please ensure that the costume pieces work with the Multimen... The dark one is sooo ugly (sorry Ereziah!). I rather have a zombie...