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Class revamps: Sadida and Ecaflip
Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2012-10-23
posté April 16, 2013, 20:18:23 | #141
Until sadidas are made right, I'm not even going to touch them.


Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté April 16, 2013, 20:50:09 | #142
The Air branch has gotten a lot better I believe... but all the spells kinda look like each other now. I really love the poisoning's effects, though. Water's become pretty awesome, but I miss the typical draining effects to heal your dolls with. Earth... I don't know yet. Still derping around with it on my Sadida, seems like a strange mixture between an Earth Sacrier and... weak attacks so far D:

I really like the many kinds of dolls they have now but... What's happened to Voodoll? D: It walks, that's pretty cool. But it's ugly (not a valid argument I know, but I still wanted to say it xD) and it has... HP! So if you use it in some epic high-levelled fight it's probably dead after one or two Iops did their share.

Hmmm there's still much to learn for me about Sadida's new skills, but so far, in short, my impression is... nice Air branch, but without a proper Voodoll Sadida's just feel... split in half D:

Oh and the poisoning's effects are bugged, they don't stack (I believe they should?). I rather not log my Sadida until it's fixed, don't want to trigger the restat in case it's temporary.

-Xx Slightly Confused Rayne


This post has been edited by LadyRinsun - April 16, 2013, 20:51:05.
Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-02
posté April 16, 2013, 22:49:30 | #143

Quote (LadyRinsun @ 16 April 2013 20:50) *
The Air branch has gotten a lot better I believe... but all the spells kinda look like each other now. I really love the poisoning's effects, though. Water's become pretty awesome, but I miss the typical draining effects to heal your dolls with. Earth... I don't know yet. Still derping around with it on my Sadida, seems like a strange mixture between an Earth Sacrier and... weak attacks so far D:

I really like the many kinds of dolls they have now but... What's happened to Voodoll? D: It walks, that's pretty cool. But it's ugly (not a valid argument I know, but I still wanted to say it xD) and it has... HP! So if you use it in some epic high-levelled fight it's probably dead after one or two Iops did their share.

Hmmm there's still much to learn for me about Sadida's new skills, but so far, in short, my impression is... nice Air branch, but without a proper Voodoll Sadida's just feel... split in half D:

Oh and the poisoning's effects are bugged, they don't stack (I believe they should?). I rather not log my Sadida until it's fixed, don't want to trigger the restat in case it's temporary.

-Xx Slightly Confused Rayne
I really hope it is just a glitch, and not a nerf as I believe it might be.

Textoxin never use to consider base dmg so I am not sure that it is suppose to now, which is partially why I find this very disappointing, but who knows maybe it will consider it now.

Do you really think so, can you show me your sadida, because quite frankly mines is a piece of poop. If yours works I really want to see, I mean I really hope it is my build and not a huge nerf as it has proven to be by far!!!


This post has been edited by aquabeauty - April 17, 2013, 00:31:00.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-18
posté April 22, 2013, 20:25:31 | #144
I suggest all sadidas to quit now, they aren't going to balance sadidas until next year when they realize how bad they are. They're too focused on making cras a little better or how to make the UBs more complicated.

Either we find another class to level or move on. Only reason anyone would want a sadida is for heals (while the sadida doesn't get healed) or for -60% resists. Not a class that makes much of a difference.


This post has been edited by Neneko88 - April 22, 2013, 20:26:04.
Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2012-01-21
posté April 23, 2013, 16:39:09 | #145
Oh man, I saw the email for the Wakfu update and thought "Damn, I miss this game. It was different from every other MMO I've played."

Then I saw the actual updates, especially to my favorite class (Sadida) and now I hope they continue doing good work in making me not want to come back.

I really hate paying a monthly subscription (it's not that I can't afford it, it's just, if I pay for a game, I'd like to own it, my Steam and handheld collection say a lot about this) so it really helps when stupid decisions like this are made.

1. Stop trying to make mini-classes out of each classes elements. This game requires more strategy than others, using only a few restricted spells to fit into a 'role' won't do anything but lessen what you can do.

2. For me, the Sadida was never about the "heal, poison, or tank." She was more strategy based than other classes because of how limited her spells were.
When I first played Wakfu, I played the Water Sadida for doll control. When I realized that it was lacking in mid game where you really can't send out 3-4 dolls in a team battle and expect them to survive, I played Air/Water which required a fair amount of strategizing. However, it gave me the option of playing Air with medium to high single target damage (Totem + Stench + (and maybe Chill) or Stench + Poisoned Wind) while K'MIR and Gust provided a good enough support in combination with Seed + Vaporize when needed. Other times, such as when I solo, I could just spam my dolls to hide behind while I casted my air spells.

The Sadida does not heal except for her dolls, in which case drain was too bad to be bothered to be used since the heal split was pretty bad if you had more than 1 doll out. (I started using Doll Recycling to fix it by Sacrificing a doll then Resummoning because I disliked Drain that much.) Sadida is not an Eniripsa, if you want heals, then play Eniripsa, Water Sadida was all about the dealing damage with Dolls (which I miss the old Rust because you dealt so many attacks when mixed with Nettled).

After the tree revamp on Sadida, I decided to go Earth with totem. Earth was suppose to be the AoE focused class. Bramble and Fertilizer were very good Single Target skills when AoE wasn't an option. If you couldn't target the Totem, Bramble. If you had a totem out and accessible, Fertilizer. Otherwise, Earth's main ability came from Earthquake, and most importantly Multiple Bramble. Wild Grass was kind of useless except for low cost Block...
Earthquake targeting change was nice, but the issue remains that the damage nerf was too heavy for something that late game has really high resistance to while maintaining a "maybe it will hit." Using it in conjunction with the totem was one of the smarter ideas because you had twice the chance of hitting a target when allies weren't in any real danger.
Multiple Bramble, combined with Totem Redirected Damage was amazing however. Two hits, one of them buffed even further than the other on a single target, then whatever else was caught in there was hit pretty hard too. Of course, even then, Earth Sadida was pretty weak compared to other classes, so being able to mix in a Greedy-Rust combination into the Earth Sadida was a nice combination but only when the situation presented itself as to being worth sacrificing a doll for (because dolls die instantly later unless you ran pure HP).

The Earth Sadida is not a tank, if you want to tank, play a Sacrier.

3. Take a word from Icefrog (dev for DOTA2), it is not the person in charge to balance the game, but the players.

Quote

How do you balance this game?

I don't.


... You don't? You realize a lot of people are going to shout at you because of this answer, right?

Balance is the arch-enemy of art and creativity. Creativity comes from a conflict of different ideas. Controversy is a natural part of creativity. Accidents like Blink Dagger + Epicenter would never surface in a "balanced" game.
**Writer's note: Epicenter + Blink Dagger are an extremely powerful combination that can devistate the enemy's entire team.


This post has been edited by Iniquity - April 23, 2013, 16:40:39.
Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2008-09-26
posté April 29, 2013, 19:28:34 | #146
dude the biggest problem with sadidas now is the block doll
it is completely useless
it has no hp
no mp, no lock, and no range

IT shuld have more hp
2 mp, 1 mp makes it completely useless
and it has no lock at all
most monsters just wlak right past it
so its role is not even worth it
and the fact that it cant even pull anything more than a block away is dumb
its spell needs 3 range, los,
if i was a rich millionare id buy out ankama just to revamp everything
because a ton of complaints go unanswered
all that this game has become over the past year is 1 giant nerf
i came back and looked at it all
and its jsut terrible nerfs
fire xelors worst of all, 5 and 6 ap per spell, thats so lame
not to mention limits on how many times spells can be cast
that jsut nerfs anyhting that it is on
oh boy this spell looks cool, hery derp
but wait it cots 6ap 2wp 1mp and can be used 1 time per turn.....
yeah how am i supposed to even use the spell...
(light speed for sacs)
but it is like that for every single class
WP being a limit also, of only 6, so that means the spell cna be cast only 6 times
per battle, so any spell at all that uses wp is limited
and there are tons of them, so that completly limits your character in a fight
too many nerfs, to many limits, and overpowered enemies
makes for an unfun game, its why so many people left after a month
it was cool then bam nerf central on everything but cras

but, 1 thing i may add,
how did it take this long to fix the tarot problem for ecaflips
the 1 hp nonsense card should have been dealt with long ago
it was tottally unfair to the class
it made it possible for them to lsoe to piwis at lv100 basically
bad idea all in all

and sadida tree should work differently
it should heal the sadida but also make them invincible for 1 turn
2 turns as tree
first turn you get healed and are invincible
2nd turn you get healed but not invincible
it blocks the first attack and the spell lasts 2 turns
good for helping yourself
using a block to pull enemies off you
with their 3 range, more lock, and 2 mp

And please here me out on this
it was an idea for everyone in the game
the healing process is kind of really slow
but i think it should be a little faster
to get more people into action

1: When standing you heal 5hp every 5 seconds
2: When sitting on ground you heal 10hp every 5 seconds
3: When sitting on a chair or bench you heal 15hp every 5 seconds
this is when you are out of battle though
because it just takes way to long to recuperate after fights
and it slows down the fun by alot

And also maybe a minor change but interesting
for each nation resources of a type respawn/grow 25% faster

Brakmar = Ores and Mines
Bonta = Trees and Flowers
Sufokia = Fish
Amakna = Wheats and grains or farmer stuff

this gves each nation a uniqueness to them
but also new recipes please

make some potions that can be crafted with flowers that can heal hp
and also recipes with fish that can heal hp

there jsut isnt enough food items that heal in the game
chefs and bakers are like bleh

bakers make bread to heal
but all chefs do is make buffs that really no one uses because they dont heal



Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2011-02-22
posté May 03, 2013, 14:01:52 | #147
Cra's aren't that op, ya they deal allot of dmg but they lack three major thing's range and the majority of spells and mega weak in cc, they can't even run away after they use up there wp they have, like one cc spell and it pushes wooo... oh wait it uses wp well then that's limited, I stoped playing the cra after they nerfed the becons because there is no point, but back to the subject at hand I like this sadida revamp, it fills the role's that it's suppose to fill and one of them is to heal. Before I got really board of the sadida just the play style, and it was slow early on vary slow, and I do agree that the dmg could be higher in the earth branch, and I have had the block pull from 3 cells away many times now all I can say about that is to play the new sadida and see for your self. I do agree that the mp on some of the doll's is lacking and the AI is vary flawed (not as bad as eni's cony though) and need's some work, and yes the player base should be the one's making the changes for we are the one's who play the game it only makes since. The recovery time is slow and should be made better, there were time where I had to rest because I ran out of bread while I was in a dungeon, in the amount of time it took me to heal the rest of my party could have finished the dungeon and got back to me. They are getting closer to balancing the classes in thes game with each patch/revamp and there will be set backs on some characters, but you can only get so close and it will never be balanced completely one class will always out shine the rest in pvp and or in pvm (dofus) that's just how it is. While I will agree with the fact that some classes get beaten to a bloody-pulp (dofus sac) and other's get glorified (dofus iop and feca) in any game that will happen, and probably will happen in this game too it just hasn't happened yet because they are from what I see trying to prevent that from happening.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-18
posté July 18, 2013, 16:53:24 | #148
Azael you said we could give you feedback on the most important things in wakfu. The classes are the most important thing and since the sadida revamp has and still has so many problems I think it's important that they change a lot of the problems with this revamp.

I want to make it simple for you to understand. The main problem with your revamp is the cost of doing everything. Every spell costs too much for what it does.

  • Totem: You said you wanted to make sadida the best support class and yet you removed their best support spell, totem. Why the higher cost in AP? Why not 100% hp like before? Can you explain why you needed to nerf totem? It already runs away. My solution is that at level 9 it needs to cost 1wp 2ap and have 100% of target's hp. You also need to let us control it, even if it's only with vaporize.
  • Doll: You didn't raise dolls hp for the AP it costs. Osas summon with really low cost and yet some of sadida's dolls cost 6 or 7 AP. This shouldn't happen at all. You need to review the cost to summon dolls, they're supposed to be weak and easy to summon.
  • Madoll and Lethargic dolls are really bad, they don't belong in any fight. -1ap or -1mp doesn't do anything. If -2mp wasn't overpowered before the revamp why did you have to nerf to -1mp? Same for lethargic. These 2 dolls need a revamp
  • Lone sadida: You need to change this passive so it works for summoning dolls too. It's really simple, you're doing the same thing you did with osa. You shouldn't penalize sadidas for summoning and make them stronger for not summoning. This logic doesn't make sense. A solution is to give dolls +damage every turn they stay alive. Or you could give sadidas +damage the more dolls they summon.
  • Explodoll: Who levels this?..


If you could start by making sure sadidas are the best support and give them an useful totem again that would really do a lot for this class.

I've played sadidas since the very beginning when they were added them to wakfu. I'm not new to them. I helped you test them in closed beta and open beta.

You said you wanted feedback for these class revamps and you never gave the English community any chance to give you feedback on the sadida revamp. Please listen.


This post has been edited by Neneko88 - July 18, 2013, 16:57:26.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté July 19, 2013, 01:01:04 | #149
The reason why totem.. i mean voodoll has 40% of target hp instead of 100% is propably because they wanted to make it possible for enemies to get rid of the voodoll after it has been linked to them. However it doesn't explain why we hurt the voodoll when we want to use it to redirect the dmg via it to enemy linked to it. The cost is also too high and i think 3AP 1MP 1WP would be better then 4AP 1WP cost. Also the most important thing is that Voodoll was supposed to help Sadida attack those who are far away at distance, wich makes me feel that the range of summoning Voodoll should be 2~8 (in line) or so.

As for dolls it's really awkward that it's often better to just place the seeds instead of dolls as the seeds will take 1 dmg, transform into fire doll and receive 2nd dmg, while summoning dolls requirre much more AP and doll just die from 1 attack... this is so wrong. I wouldn't mind the cost of dolls if they had 2x more resistance maybe or if they would have the ability that will make them mroe endurant and not loose more then 30% of doll's HP from single attack - that would help a lot.

As for Explodoll - why you make it scale with level at so ridiculously low numbers? Even when maxed, at level 120 this spell is too weak to make us want to level it. Why Sadida need to wait till it hit 200 lvl to have it's passive fully effective while other classes don't have such huge limitations? Just make it deal fixed numbers when it is lvl 20 Explodoll and stop with the "scaling with sadida level". Or if you really want to make it scale with level as it does now, then at least make it deal 20 more dmg then it does now + the x*Sadida level that we have, so that this spell is actually worth maxing at early levels. Also Exploding doll should act as punishment for those who did that in close combat with doll. Note the Sadida cannot trigger it manually unless it cast Drain on doll several times - therefore the dmg should be high enough to make up for the cost that sadida need to do to kill the doll. Increasing the resistance of dolls will also make it less likely for explodoll to trigger as dolls will be less likely to die that fast, wich also means explodoll should be stronger and it would all fit well togather.

Doll Link - please bring back the doll link that we had before your revamp. The doll link should show the link between Sadida and it's dolls: greedies, inflatables, blockers, madolls, ulytrapowerfuls, lethargics, sacrificials. We want passive that makes dolls take dmg for us when we are damaged. It was the beautiful aspect of the Sadida that we had. Why you removed it? The only problem that Sadida had was that dolls were dieing too fast and we had no WP refund. Now we have WP refund and if you will also increase doll's resistance then the passive that makes Sadida redirect dmg received to it's dolls will be most appreaciated. The support role of Sadida can be done well only if Sadida can tank the dmg well while it cares to heal allies, push things, place dolls, control dolls, cast air spells via dolls to redirect them further, etc. The current link from sadida to voodoll is not only awkward as we link the voodoll to enemy (or ally other then sadida itself), but it is also very weak, pointless at times as it kills the voodoll faster and it doesnt seem to redirect all the dmg it should to the enemy. Not to mention it is bad to make ally take dmg for us when we link voodoll to ally in order to keep it healed, but we cannot "turn off the passive". So please give us back our Doll Link that we had before this revamp.

Lone Sadida - like Neneko88 has said it is totally wrong to make Sadida stronger when it doesn't use dolls. Instead i suggest you to give Sadida passive that makes it increase the dmg every turn if it didn't moved or if it didn't used MP to move in previous turn. This will show the lazy nature of Sadida, will make it wanted to use dolls (not necassary to use them but helpful to reach the full dmg bonus when you dont move), will also stop people from complaining that sadida use dolls and run away - because it will lead Sadida to not gain the dmg (or you can even make that sadida will loose dmg% gathered if it will move with MP by certain % per MP used in turn), wich will also work perfectly with the Doll Link that will make dolls take part of the dmg for Sadida instead of the voodoll. Sadida has spells with no los to support allies (Drain, Sadida's Tear, Sudden Chill, Gust) and it also has the ability to make dolls to make them reach something that Sadida cannot reach, wich means it is viable for Sadida gamplay to be able to stand still in one place and support allies around without moving itself. This will also give new tactical gamplay as sacriers will help Sadida move to certain cells without loosing the dmg bonus it gathers, the feca could effectively use glyphs around Sadida wich will most likely not move from it anyway, and Sadida will be finally able to "buy time" for the allies by taking the hits on iselfs well (and then using Tree for example).

Tree - when we talk about it. We want this spell to heal us for more then it does now, we want this spell to give us immunity so that we don't get backstabbed or injured at all, we want to be able to use this spell more then once (so limiation to 1 per fight is not going to satisfy us). However you can make the Tree to be cast at start of turn. You can also make the heal based on the number of dolls summoned so that if theres no dolls then we only get invulnerability but no heal.

Dolls - summoning dolls should not cost WP. You should instead limit Sadida to max 6 dolls at time and make voodoll with limitation 1 at time. This way we would be finally able to have all 6 dolls and a voodoll to make it possible to use all of them when needed. Also we get much more penalty of using WP in certain situations (Critical Failure state, -WP cells, Nun dungeon, Stasified state) then other classes as we use them literally every turn if not every 2nd turn (aka we keep using dolls). Something that is used so often by a class should not cost WP.

Ability to give WP - i think it would be awsome if Sadida was able to give WP to allies. Maybe the spells that Sadida use for WP should be: Voodoll, Tree, Sic'em More and Sadida should keep the ability to get WP back when the doll die, but it would be also able to give own WP to allies, for example by casting using Sic'em More on ally.

Turning dolls to seed - i think it would be better if casting Doll (the spell that place seed on empty cell) directly on already created doll would turn it to seed, instead of making us need to cast Dolly Sacrifice twice when we want to remove the doll from cell with it.

Ability to give AP to dolls - i think Vaporize spell should give AP to dolls. We should also be able to give AP to dolls via nettle state.

Nettle - it would be awsome if it was possible to increase the level of nettle by getting hurt more often and therefore triggering it more then once in the same turn via Green Guard

Ability to swap place wiith doll when we are hit in close combat - it would be also awsome if we would receive such protection, especially that we have no counter for classes that can ignore dolls and aim directly for Sadida (like Sram, Iop, Masqueraider or Sacrier). It could be done with Green Guard passive (in addition to what already Green guard does).

The ability to create vines that pull - i think it would be also awsome if we would be able to cast Wild Grass on ally or doll in order to create vines from under their feet that would pull target to them from the direction they are facing. Bramble Armor should be thefore created only with Bramble spell.

These are just few of the ideas but with just those i would be again happy to play Sadida.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2008-01-19
posté July 19, 2013, 14:42:27 | #150
I am a Sadida Player since Dofus and in Wakfu since the open beta and i realy dont understand some of your complaints.
Atm i play 2 Sadidas, one is Air and one Earth, a third Sadida in Water-Build is planned and it will be great!. I realy dont miss dolls the most time at the game although i can cast them and have a win of them in some situations.
I realy would hate it to cast dolls to increase my damage. Lone Sadida is one of my favorite passives, as well as doll link as it is now. Even if you dont cast Dolls (in previous versions) or a Voodool (new version) you get -10% on all damages.
Tree is also a very great spell as it is now... if you need more heals than increase your elemental dmg and bp.
Both of my Sadidas are 12ap 4mp builds on the way to 12ap 5bp.
Yes, AI of dolls is ultra dumb and yes the sadida needs improvment in details but as a very experienced player i can read that you played Watersadida-Builds which just spit Waterdolls to punish your enemies.

A Sadida is not a mass-summoner and i don´t want it to be! If you want to summon a large number of npc´s with stupid AI than play Osamodas.
It is absolutly possible to handle a Sadida and make wonderful damages and supports for your team you just have to think about what sadida is now, just think about your builds.

sorry for my english, it is not my nativ language.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté July 19, 2013, 20:43:25 | #151

Quote (DerSwitcher @ 19 July 2013 14:42) *
A Sadida is not a mass-summoner and i don´t want it to be! If you want to summon a large number of npc´s with stupid AI than play Osamodas.
It is absolutly possible to handle a Sadida and make wonderful damages and supports for your team you just have to think about what sadida is now, just think about your builds.
Actually Sadida was designed to be mass-summoner aka summoner of many, wich is why it is possible to summon 6 dolls, while osamodas was designed to play with 1 summon (recently it got changed so you can have 2 strong summons instead of 1 but i wouldnt call it a mass-summoning if its just 2 summons).

"With stupid AI" you say - well i just hope they fix the AI.

The fact that its possible to handle current sadida doesn't change the fact that it's not what it should be and that some passives are not working togather with each other like they used to before the revamp. Now you either have half of passives activated or other half, before you had all passives available at any given time and you just had to choose wich ones you want to get for your oryginal build. Now builds are less of a choice and its just too obvious what you have to level that is just boring.

And some passives are ridiculously underpowered like Explodoll. Also Doll Link is not really showing the proper link as, like i said, there's no link between Sadida and the voodoll it places. It's just awkward logic. It's the all other dolls that should receive dmg for Sadida, even in anime madoll of Amalia suffer pain when Amalia get hurt by wild roses. And when i ask people around they all would love to have dolls taking part of the dmg for them aka the way they should. It was lovely mechanic that made Sadida special. Removing it was the worst thing ankama did to this class.

Also promoting to not use summons while playing summoner class by making it have more dmg they it would with dolls is also wrong. And loosing all the dmg bonus gathered for 5 turns of not having summons when you place just 1 doll is another bad thing. Fights doesn't last long enough to make Sadida able to swap between "2 builds".

And you know its possible to play foggernaut well or sram with invisible build, but it doesn't change the fact that, just like Sadida, they need changes (improvements) as some things are simply broken by current design.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - July 19, 2013, 20:44:58.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-18
posté July 19, 2013, 21:03:58 | #152

Quote (DerSwitcher @ 19 July 2013 14:42) *
I am a Sadida Player since Dofus and in Wakfu since the open beta and i realy dont understand some of your complaints.
Atm i play 2 Sadidas, one is Air and one Earth, a third Sadida in Water-Build is planned and it will be great!. I realy dont miss dolls the most time at the game although i can cast them and have a win of them in some situations.
I realy would hate it to cast dolls to increase my damage. Lone Sadida is one of my favorite passives, as well as doll link as it is now. Even if you dont cast Dolls (in previous versions) or a Voodool (new version) you get -10% on all damages.
Tree is also a very great spell as it is now... if you need more heals than increase your elemental dmg and bp.
Both of my Sadidas are 12ap 4mp builds on the way to 12ap 5bp.
Yes, AI of dolls is ultra dumb and yes the sadida needs improvment in details but as a very experienced player i can read that you played Watersadida-Builds which just spit Waterdolls to punish your enemies.

A Sadida is not a mass-summoner and i don´t want it to be! If you want to summon a large number of npc´s with stupid AI than play Osamodas.
It is absolutly possible to handle a Sadida and make wonderful damages and supports for your team you just have to think about what sadida is now, just think about your builds.

sorry for my english, it is not my nativ language.
You're wrong, if you don't want to be a summoner don't play sadida. After they turned osas into a dragon class, sadida was the only class that was a real summoner. It should stay that way, why do you think they gave us more dolls to use? All specialties but 1 are about dolls

Kam himself wouldve never made sadida into a dragon osa like grou did. Kam is the one who created the sadidas.

You missed closed beta when he was the one rebalancing them. I think I know why you don't understand the problem.

@Kikui
Totem used to cost 1wp and 2ap. I don't understand why you're making the cost higher in your solution..It's sadida's best support spell. It should be as good as it used to be, not worse.

Change UBs as much as you want, maybe make it so when you totem an UB it becomes the 40% of target's hp totem. But you need to make totem as good as it used to be, you're taking away the one spell that made them the best support class.


This post has been edited by Neneko88 - July 19, 2013, 21:05:35.
Short Strich * Member Since 2010-12-17
posté September 08, 2013, 18:24:44 | #153
Since Grou doesn't look at the sadida forum let me post this here

Osas can summon with 3ap. Sadidas having weaker summons and having a higher cost to summon is a bug. I did the math so summon a specific doll is always the same cost.

Dolls


  • greedy, should give back 1ap if summoned with vaporize, 2ap if summoned with mudoll, 3ap if summoned with rust
  • inflatable, should give back 3ap if summoned with tear, 2ap if summoned with drain


  • lethargic, should give back 2ap if summoned with woodland stench, 1ap if summoned with poisoned wind, 2ap if summoned with gust
  • ultra powerful, should give back 2ap if summoned with sudden chill, 2ap if summoned with k'mir


  • the blocker, should give back 2ap if summoned with bramble, 3ap if summoned with fertilizer, should give back 2ap if summoned with with wild grass
  • the madoll, should give back 4ap if summoned with manifold bramble


When we do the place seed + cast an elemental spell the cost is always consistent. Only exception is aoe spells like rust and manifold bramble

greedy = 3ap

inflatable = 4ap

lethargic = 3ap

ultra powerful = 4ap

the blocker = 4ap

madoll = 3ap

Totem
This is their best support specialty and its cost or effect needs to change. You need to choose from one of these options.

*40% of target HP.
Cost 2AP (will not cost WP)

*100% of target's HP
Cost 2AP and 1WP

*Bring back beta totem which blocks LOS but if you push something onto it then it breaks
100% of target's HP
Cost 2AP and 1WP


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté September 10, 2013, 13:58:08 | #154
I also think that it is unfair that other classes can benefit well from AP received from Xelor, but Sadida cannot do all it could with that AP. What i mean is the limitation of dolls to be 2/turn. Even if we build ourself for 12AP, we will be still unable to summon 3 dolls at time (2AP seed, 2AP vaporize). The revamp given to sadida few new tools to play with but it didnt balanced Sadida - it is still underpowered and some passives work against the other passives. This is really bad design. Not to mention the awfully low scaling of Explodoll and destroyed doll link.


Quote (Troyle @ 08 April 2013 16:03) *
Our goal is to reduce the cost of the dolls.
You know, the cake is a lie...


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - September 17, 2013, 12:43:57.
Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2011-02-21
posté November 07, 2013, 19:55:01 | #155
"You're wrong, if you don't want to be a summoner don't play sadida. After they turned osas into a dragon class, sadida was the only class that was a real summoner. It should stay that way, why do you think they gave us more dolls to use? All specialties but 1 are about dolls"

actually your half write people do play the osa for the dragon but he is still a summoner class it's just he cant mass summon like he is suppose to if he/she would try to do that vs anything equal lvl and or in pvp they would lose witch in my opinion is a bunch of bull, what they did is take the summon out of his class and try to pass it off as an osa personally the dofus osa is better than the wakfu osa but that's just me, don't get me wrong I like the fact that the osa can turn into a dragon it's kinda like playing a druid from Diablo 2, and as for the sadida she is a support/summoner that's what I believe to be her role and the osa dmg support/ summoner/tank(cuz of the dragon from is why the tank was thrown in).


Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-05-15
posté November 21, 2013, 23:01:47 | #156

Quote (gutsytoe @ 07 November 2013 19:55) *

actually your half write people do play the osa for the dragon but he is still a summoner class it's just he cant mass summon like he is suppose to if he/she would try to do that vs anything equal lvl and or in pvp they would lose witch in my opinion is a bunch of bull, what they did is take the summon out of his class and try to pass it off as an osa personally the dofus osa is better than the wakfu osa but that's just me, don't get me wrong I like the fact that the osa can turn into a dragon it's kinda like playing a druid from Diablo 2, and as for the sadida she is a support/summoner that's what I believe to be her role and the osa dmg support/ summoner/tank(cuz of the dragon from is why the tank was thrown in).

Except you are very wrong about the concept of both summoner classes. Do you even have a high lvl osa and a sadida?

Osa has always been a summoner + dragon class. Since day 1 I always played an osa, I love the playstile of the summoner aspect of this class. Osa's are damage dealers through summons or changing into dragon form. The concept of an osa is also being able to change into a dragon, this has always been like this since day 1 that Ankama implemented this class into the game.

Sadida's however have always been summoners and summoners only. Only thing is, Grou ruined this class completely after the latest Sadida revamp. Before that revamp, when you create a sadida the description says "Summoner of many" "Sadida uses plants and war dolls in all he does"
I play Sadida since early beta, I have always been a summoner water sadida. Their ability is to summon as much dolls as possible on the battlefield in order to survive. But since the latest patch Grou is trying to make Sadida as a second "Dragon Osa" which is totally not the concept of the class at all...

Sorry to disappoint those Lone Sadida's around but if you want to be an Iop-like Sadida, go play an Iop or some other dd because Sadida is meant to be Summoner of many. That Grou totally ruins this class doesn't mean it's the actual class concept!!


Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2011-02-21
posté November 25, 2013, 11:03:40 | #157
and now you have it wrong, osa's were originally are beast summoners coming from dofus the first osa they would mass sworm the field better than sadi would cuz thats what they did no if ands or buts, going into wakfu they lost that ability to do so effectively (I was making a comparison before) but gained the dragon ability. The sadi is a support /summoner the best dolls the class has is the inflatable and the ultapowerfull (one heals and one reduces mp) thoughs two are supportive summons, the class only has two offensive summon and the one you need fire to summon it this is why i say support/summoner, and in dofus they were played as a lone sadida so this is nothing new they dealt allot of damage by them selves. So all in all the way the two classes are played have been switched around in wakfu that is how I see it and I'm sure most of the people coming from dofus to wakfu will agree.

PS: the whole point to an osa is to summon beats that will aid him and his allies in battle the dragon form is there so the class can be more than just a summoner, interpret this how ever you want.


The Sinister Six * Member Since 2012-01-13
posté November 25, 2013, 11:46:51 | #158
Nice necro, buddy.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté November 25, 2013, 12:44:58 | #159

Quote (gutsytoe @ 25 November 2013 11:03) *
and now you have it wrong, osa's were originally are beast summoners coming from dofus the first osa they would mass sworm the field better than sadi would cuz thats what they did no if ands or buts, going into wakfu they lost that ability to do so effectively (I was making a comparison before) but gained the dragon ability. The sadi is a support /summoner the best dolls the class has is the inflatable and the ultapowerfull (one heals and one reduces mp) thoughs two are supportive summons, the class only has two offensive summon and the one you need fire to summon it this is why i say support/summoner, and in dofus they were played as a lone sadida so this is nothing new they dealt allot of damage by them selves. So all in all the way the two classes are played have been switched around in wakfu that is how I see it and I'm sure most of the people coming from dofus to wakfu will agree.

PS: the whole point to an osa is to summon beats that will aid him and his allies in battle the dragon form is there so the class can be more than just a summoner, interpret this how ever you want.
1. Ultrapowerful is not reducing MP, its applying poisons. The one that reduce MP is madoll and its pretty much useless past 20th level.

2.Sadida have 3 offensive summons: the ultrapowerful mentioned above, the Sacrificial doll and the Greedy doll.

3.The Sadida had high damage itself because the dolls it had were not doing damage. Here in wakfu the damage of Sadida is divided between Sadida and its dolls, wich is why people say that the "Lone Sadida" damage increase should also increase when we use dolls, or else we loose like half of the potential of damage output that we would normally have.

4.The fact that we may or may not use dolls should be up to us. There are some situations where dolls are not needed but making Sadida loose damage increase when it summon a doll for support is just killing the class concept and make it underpowered vs other classes.

5.You are also wrong about the concept of the Osamodas and Sadida. The Osamodas is offensive summoner, while Sadida is defensive. This is why Osamodas have high base dmg of spells and why Osamodas's summons are dealing high damage. Meanwhile Sadida before revamp was one of the best tanks in game. It lost this ability after the revamp, wich just ruined the class as tank. Now we can still use Brambly Armors on ourself to tank but we cannot do any reasonable damage while doing so, unlike a Sacrier or Feca who can deal high damage while having high tanking abilities in same time. They simply messed up Sadida too much and now people claim that it is "support summoner". Tanking is a way to support too. The dolls are there to tank the damage for allies as well. However they lose HP and their resistance hasn't been changed since beta days, wich leave them underpowered. They changed a lot about Sadida, but they forgot to change many important things while they made some mistakes and changes something that they shouldnt: the Doll Link passive.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - November 25, 2013, 12:45:14.