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Spells level up!
Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2013-01-22
posté July 18, 2013, 20:06:05 | #21
"The revamp of the Xelor and changes brought to Blindness in June constitute a first step toward a more global revamp of States application that must take place in this update. Globally, many states applied by classes will be rebalanced. All details will be communicated in the complete changelog published on July 29th."

Am I the only one slightly worried about this part? I have a sinister feeling that I can't seem to shake...


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-11-20
posté July 18, 2013, 20:22:34 | #22
I'd really like to see some posting from Troyle or somesuch to give us an idea of how the secondary effects of spells will scale up to and past 100.

For insance, at lv 100 Boohowl adds 120% Damage to summons. What will it be at 100 after the change, and at 120/125 or even lv 200?

Or Feca buff glyphs. Will the AP go over 3 after lv 100 at some point?

Some idea, even if it's an imaginary spell or whatnot, would be immensely helpful.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-04-11
posté July 18, 2013, 20:27:55 | #23

Quote (kurokat @ 18 July 2013 19:51) *
I posted this in the Fogger section, but since not everyone goes there, here it is (hopefully someone will find useful):


Well, since I don't play Foggers, though have always liked the idea of one, I don't know what spells are used the most, so in the following, all spells are averaged at 66 lvl's in each at lvl 120.

Click here

Wearing this at least does not involve any of the as of now "Impossible to Obtain" Dragon Pig items other's have been placing in their builds here. It also does not involve any of the Kraken gear which I personally dislike for how horrid your resists get (as noted as those other builds all have next to nothing in resists).

This would give decent resists and the Sylargh's BP you need to understand currently has

+1 MP
+152 HP
+12 Prospecting
+7 Willpower
+16% Resist. ( )
+15% Resist. to attacks from behind

for stats and after the item revamp, which is happening when this stasis change happens it will have

+1 MP
+109 HP
+25 Initiative
+3% Critical Hits
+15% Critical Damage
+25% Damage
+12% Resist

Meaning that the Fire Mastery will be another 25% higher than what is in the builder listed above.

With:
331% Earth
356% Fire
201% Water
203% Air

That averages out to 273%. If you rearange my spell levels to fit your build better, lets say you have any one of the new spell damages at 100 (obviously not all of them at once), it would bring you to:

- - - - - - - - - - - New Base - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - With 273% Avg - - - - - Old Base
Heart of Steam: 90 (addition of “no line of sight) - - - - 245.7 - - - - - - - - - - 175 (and LoS needed)
- Ray of Stasis: 33 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 90.09 - - - - - - - - - - - 65
- - Stasis Shot: 50 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 136.5 - - - - - - - - - - - 97
- Stasis Strike: 100 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 273 - - - - - - - - - - - 194
- - Aynaloxide: 125 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 341.25 - - - - - - - - - - 243

And you are now going off of the enemies lowest resist, which normally most enemies (save bosses) have a resist they have next to nothing in. This seems like it could work.

Again though, this is just theory crafty.

Thoughts?


- Kat


P.S. I also did not spend any of the Stat Points, so you could add more AP or Damage or what ever you want with that still.


-------------------------


Extra not in original post:
I do not see in this thread that Fogger's Heart of Steam has No Line of Sight like listed before. I wonder if they are still leaving it with No LoS cause that would be wondrous.
Your formula was a little bit off, you say the average damage will be 273% damage to Stasis. Which is good, but when you apply it to the skill you applied it wrong. 273% damage to Stasis means x3.73 not x2.73, so in the end its even more damage. Cause you have to apply the base damage also.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté July 18, 2013, 21:05:52 | #24

Quote (TommyTrouble @ 18 July 2013 20:22) *
I'd really like to see some posting from Troyle or somesuch to give us an idea of how the secondary effects of spells will scale up to and past 100.

For insance, at lv 100 Boohowl adds 120% Damage to summons. What will it be at 100 after the change, and at 120/125 or even lv 200?

Or Feca buff glyphs. Will the AP go over 3 after lv 100 at some point?

Some idea, even if it's an imaginary spell or whatnot, would be immensely helpful.

As much as I want this^ information.


Quote
Rebalancing of the States and their applicationsThe revamp of the Xelor and changes brought to Blindness in June constitute a first step toward a more global revamp of States application that must take place in this update. Globally, many states applied by classes will be rebalanced. All details will be communicated in the complete changelog published on July 29th.

We'll have to wait until the 29th.

I'm worried Orb will no longer give 3AP at lvl.100, and who knows what else will be affected.


Speechless Crobak * Member Since 2011-12-03
posté July 18, 2013, 21:15:59 | #25

Quote (iiNoted @ 18 July 2013 20:27) *

Quote (kurokat @ 18 July 2013 19:51) *
Your formula was a little bit off, you say the average damage will be 273% damage to Stasis. Which is good, but when you apply it to the skill you applied it wrong. 273% damage to Stasis means x3.73 not x2.73, so in the end its even more damage. Cause you have to apply the base damage also.

Correct, I messed that part up. I shall fix now.


- Kat



*edit
Also just added more to my previous post.


This post has been edited by kurokat - July 18, 2013, 21:36:07.
Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2013-01-22
posté July 18, 2013, 21:27:20 | #26

Quote (Gynrei @ 18 July 2013 21:05) *

Quote
Rebalancing of the States and their applicationsThe revamp of the Xelor and changes brought to Blindness in June constitute a first step toward a more global revamp of States application that must take place in this update. Globally, many states applied by classes will be rebalanced. All details will be communicated in the complete changelog published on July 29th.

We'll have to wait until the 29th.

I'm worried Orb will no longer give 3AP at lvl.100, and who knows what else will be affected.
I think we're about to bid farewell to Iop's Stun as well as Eniripsa's Madness and Sleep. QQ


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté July 18, 2013, 22:52:45 | #27
NIce, i really want to make a muilti element saddida now, but there is a large barrier stopping me.

Since there are no multi element sets, and general damage equipment does not increase heals, it is impossible to make a multi element healing class as there is no gear that supports it.

This means ecaflips, enis, saddidas and masquraiders are all punished for trying to make a multi element character.

Please address this.


Short Strich * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté July 18, 2013, 23:09:09 | #28
All the changes seem fine and exciting but 1 question is coming to mind about multi-mono element builds.

In your examples, you showed the spell distribution as ;

for multi element: 100-100-0-0-0 for each element

for mono element : 100-100-100-100-0 or sth like that..

The question is; I am playing an Earth Iop and I want to lvl up my fire and air spells to lvl 40 for +40 resists in related elements. And then I will go for pure earth... So that kind of spell distribution will make me a multi-element (which will enable me to lvl only 2 spells in earth to max) or a mono-element which will enable me to lvl 4 spells in earth to max ??? Or will there be a different calculation for this type of build??

Please make a more clear explanation about that...


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2012-06-04
posté July 18, 2013, 23:17:03 | #29

Quote (HakazabaJub @ 18 July 2013 22:52) *
NIce, i really want to make a muilti element saddida now, but there is a large barrier stopping me.

Since there are no multi element sets, and general damage equipment does not increase heals, it is impossible to make a multi element healing class as there is no gear that supports it.

This means ecaflips, enis, saddidas and masquraiders are all punished for trying to make a multi element character.

Please address this.
Masqueraiders get +heals off Dodge.. and I'm pretty sure they'll have general damage equips with +heals on there like the Imperial Healer Epauletts


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-03
posté July 19, 2013, 01:02:25 | #30
*cries*
They used my Sadida as an example, I feel like they have me in mind!!!

These are tears of joy. BUT let's see what happens on the 30th.

My Sadida states *cries some more* MYyy SSSSadida states are coming to life. My Omni sadi's heart just skipped a beat!!!

Troyle is god.

oHH mahh gawwwddd.... I am going to take a bite out of this cake and I really hope that it is not a lie.


This post has been edited by aquabeauty - July 19, 2013, 01:03:30.
Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-12-14
posté July 19, 2013, 01:30:32 | #31
From the screenshots, we can induce that leveling a spell up from its current level costs 1000*level spell exp, except from level 0 to 1, which costs 100 spell exp. It follows that for any given character level, total spell exp will be 3000*level^2 - 3000*level + 600.

With heavier weight being placed on the highest level spells for elemental damage and linearity in the spell exp cost function, it now becomes far more effective to multi-element. From playing around with the numbers a little bit at level 120, single-element users with perfectly balanced spells stand to lose about 25% damage from elemental masteries, two-element users will be only about 15% damage behind, and three-elements users will be only about 15% damage behind that (assuming two spells at 120 for each element and 15-20% resist in off-elements). However, lifting of the spell level cap will result in a ~25-30% final damage increase, which is pretty huge. The biggest problems for a multi-element user now will be the fact that general damage cannot be statted (which seems like it might be addressed in August) unless it's a Rogue or Masqueraider, critical hit statting caps out at 22%, there is little support for multi-element gear (which will be addressed in this month's update), and runing for more than one element is far less effective.

Some consequences of the new system:
- Final damage going up at the expense of elemental damage benefits classes with higher +% damage specialties disproportionately as well as healing classes
- Higher level spells in general benefit classes with more useful spells disproportionately (as opposed to classes that only have 1-2 spells worth leveling in their element)
- Higher level characters will generally get a huge damage boost, and leveling will scale to damage linearly as opposed to logarithmically due to current spell level cap hindrance (e.g. the damage difference between a level 110 character and level 120 will be far larger after the update than now)
- Characters lower than level ~95 will suffer a damage decrease due to spell level cap staying the same while elemental mastery
- Characters will have lower resists in general, and it costs much more spell exp to get resists through elemental mastery


Not so Hairy Moon * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté July 19, 2013, 03:01:50 | #32
Fire / Air and Earth / water seem to be the only elements with viable sets and items to suit. Will we see more items for air / earth etc (like whispering) in the future? I really want to try out a cra like this, but there are so few sets to choose from. Seems all i have is vampyro. Dragon pig is already out of the question until next year - probably heavily outdated by that time. We wont even have time to get it as we'll all be scrambling for 150..


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-08-07
posté July 19, 2013, 03:18:36 | #33

Quote (stayhumble @ 18 July 2013 23:17) *

Quote (HakazabaJub @ 18 July 2013 22:52) *
NIce, i really want to make a muilti element saddida now, but there is a large barrier stopping me.

Since there are no multi element sets, and general damage equipment does not increase heals, it is impossible to make a multi element healing class as there is no gear that supports it.

This means ecaflips, enis, saddidas and masquraiders are all punished for trying to make a multi element character.

Please address this.
Masqueraiders get +heals off Dodge.. and I'm pretty sure they'll have general damage equips with +heals on there like the Imperial Healer Epauletts
Even though masq get plus heals from dodge, if they don't build for water damage specifically that is hardly enough to even justify using them as a healer. Masqs dressed in general damage gear even at the dodge cap don't heal for very much at all. At most you can get 100 extra heals which would only make you heal for double the base value on a spell and no more if you're in exclusive general damage gear.

Healers want as much water and as much plus heals as they can get.


This post has been edited by cyndiloo - July 19, 2013, 03:19:07.
Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2011-11-11
posté July 19, 2013, 04:09:37 | #34
Psst, Hey Troyle/Sabi, happen to know the cost of spell exp from level 0 to 1 of all spells? That's the only piece I'm missing for my calculation of the new Exp system.

And if it's alright, could I post a Link of it (on google docs) in this thread? Although everyone will be sharing it until they save it for themselves, only spaces meant to be edited should be edited, so, assuming my calculations are correct, none of the formulas should accidentally be deleted/falsified.


This post has been edited by smallz117 - July 19, 2013, 04:13:58.
Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté July 19, 2013, 06:16:57 | #35

Quote (stayhumble @ 18 July 2013 23:17) *

Quote (HakazabaJub @ 18 July 2013 22:52) *
NIce, i really want to make a muilti element saddida now, but there is a large barrier stopping me.

Since there are no multi element sets, and general damage equipment does not increase heals, it is impossible to make a multi element healing class as there is no gear that supports it.

This means ecaflips, enis, saddidas and masquraiders are all punished for trying to make a multi element character.

Please address this.
Masqueraiders get +heals off Dodge.. and I'm pretty sure they'll have general damage equips with +heals on there like the Imperial Healer Epauletts
Do you really think that 25% heal you can get from a piece of armor that is almost impossable to get makes up for the ~200% of water damage you are missing out on?

In fact its more since most of the +heals are on water damage sets.


Community Manager * Member Since 2012-03-01
posté July 19, 2013, 09:54:04 | #36
To address a recurring concern: the damages of your spells will not change at level 100.

After the update the damages will remain unchanged at level 100, and just keep increasing past this level.

Note however that damages at level 200 will not equal (dmg lvl 100)*2.

The exact formula is: Dmg lvl 200 = ((dmg lvl 100 - dmg lvl 0)*2) + dmg lvl 0

For example, a spell dealing 50 damages at level 100 and 3 at level 0 will deal 97 damages at level 200:

((50-3)*2) + 3 = 97

The progression between level 100 and 200 will be linear.


Short Strich * Member Since 2013-01-17
posté July 19, 2013, 10:55:04 | #37
One simple question? Will multi-element eniripsa builds be available too or not? As you know DMG ALL bonuses do not affect eniripsa's water branch, two-elements sets commonly don't includes heal bonuses (Excarnus is exception, and it is near-final set), and there's no water+fire+air gear, only DMG ALL, that makes 3-elements builds completely impossible since water branch will not receive bonus.

It's ok if only 2-elements builds will be really possible for an eni, but, please, think about adding more air+water+heal gear (as for now --- it is only future Necroforged that has this stats, that is level 115+, and only 4 items).


posté July 19, 2013, 13:17:50 | #38
Its not good for all mono players we lose a lot of dmg ........ 70% and more ... ankama forces us to go multi element ,this is not a balance its a new restriction. My dragon osa has only disadvantages with this new system same as my Iop


Short Strich * Member Since 2013-02-12
posté July 19, 2013, 13:38:10 | #39

Quote (Dusanyu @ 19 July 2013 10:55) *
(Excarnus is exception, and it is near-final set)
There's also duke whelkington and youra peein' sets for fire/water. Both give heals too.


Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2013-06-06
posté July 19, 2013, 13:39:56 | #40
Troyle, please answer. Your last plans making huge disbalance between multi-element classes and single element chars. Using different branch gives u better resist and flexibility. What about earth Drhzerker enutrof? He can use only earth, will you rebalance his skills or abilities?


This post has been edited by muskatina - July 19, 2013, 13:52:17.