Back to forum.wakfu.com

By continuing to browse this website, you consent to the use of cookies, which enable us to offer you customised content and to collect site-visit statistics.
Click on this link for more information on cookies, and to customise your cookie preferences. X

No flash

Class Revamp - Eniripsa
Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2010-05-04
posté August 27, 2013, 01:42:30 | #241

Quote
I'm not upset about the healing value on any of the spells, but with dungeons like miss freeze or lots of mobs who require group to have 3 spaces b/w everyone or be aoe'ed, I don't know what to do. When i'm locked what am I supposed to do while someone is dying. I mean I'd take a spell with no los that heals for 2/3rds of what fort heals for now and I could make it happen. The only reason people play water eni over the other healing options is b/c of the non los heal. I'm sick over this. It just ruins my gameplay. Everyone in the group is going to have to be responsible for moving themselves in range of the eni if they want a heal. As soon as a monster is on me, everyone has to stop everything and reposition themselves.

you make it sound like you lost your no-los spell. It just got resticted so you have to think before using it and not heal with only Forti Word.

A monster locking you wont be on your ass forever, you still have Forti word in those emergency situations when you really cant reach someone. For everything else there are 4 different heals with different range and AoEs.


Quote
All I want is a reliable non los water heal I can use on anyone that's far away and in danger.

You still have it and its better because you can reach further with the removal of MP cost. You just cant spam it on everyone anymore.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2010-08-21
posté August 27, 2013, 01:44:24 | #242

Quote (Chrolo @ 27 August 2013 01:42) *

Quote
I'm not upset about the healing value on any of the spells, but with dungeons like miss freeze or lots of mobs who require group to have 3 spaces b/w everyone or be aoe'ed, I don't know what to do. When i'm locked what am I supposed to do while someone is dying. I mean I'd take a spell with no los that heals for 2/3rds of what fort heals for now and I could make it happen. The only reason people play water eni over the other healing options is b/c of the non los heal. I'm sick over this. It just ruins my gameplay. Everyone in the group is going to have to be responsible for moving themselves in range of the eni if they want a heal. As soon as a monster is on me, everyone has to stop everything and reposition themselves.

you make it sound like you lost your no-los spell. It just got resticted so you have to think before using it and not heal with only Forti Word.

A monster locking you wont be on your ass forever, you still have Forti word in those emergency situations when you really cant reach someone. For everything else there are 4 different heals with different range and AoEs.


Quote
All I want is a reliable non los water heal I can use on anyone that's far away and in danger.

You still have it and its better because you can reach further with the removal of MP cost. You just cant spam it on everyone anymore.
I know i already use all 5 of the heals in game now. fort word is not even my most used heal but you have to use it when someone is to far away and you don't have los and you might have that happen more than 5 times in a very long ub fight or boss fight. I have no problem using the other spells but we have no way to escape lock and other monsters will be in the way and people can no longer get too far away from us. invig word is my favorite heal anyway. I don't even mind the 3 ap healing spell, it's not bad and getting a buff, I like it a lot, but it won't go around corners and frequently multiple people are spread out in different areas.


This post has been edited by cyndiloo - August 27, 2013, 01:51:14.
Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2012-03-03
posté August 27, 2013, 01:45:21 | #243
Its official... enjoying this last content. then im out. 1 wp on fortifying ? fck. this. shit. They should have just kept it on revit.

-Bee


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté August 27, 2013, 02:05:47 | #244
Did you guys really enjoy water Eni now? Spaming Forti all the time, is that suppose to be fun? I honestly don't get it We had 2-3 useless spells, something had to be done.
Now you're saying that they should put WP on Revi, but when they proposed it, everyone raged and said no...
Not to mention that most of the classes/branches has some WP spells, why should water Eni be different? Especially now when we don't have to spend WP on Coney or UR.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2010-08-21
posté August 27, 2013, 02:39:30 | #245

Quote (Rokugatsu @ 27 August 2013 02:05) *
Did you guys really enjoy water Eni now? Spaming Forti all the time, is that suppose to be fun? I honestly don't get it We had 2-3 useless spells, something had to be done.
Now you're saying that they should put WP on Revi, but when they proposed it, everyone raged and said no...
Not to mention that most of the classes/branches has some WP spells, why should water Eni be different? Especially now when we don't have to spend WP on Coney or UR.
I'll be happy just not to use it if we have other options that don't require los or any way to escape lock. I liked invig before and healing word and renewing word, all were good heals depending on the amount of ap you had. We were already going to be limited to 2/turn. I would rather have it be 1/turn and not have wp cost. I have no problem using other spells but I do have a problem with having no way to heal people on the other side of mobs or get away from mobs myself. Would take a spell that only healed for 30 water at 125 if it could just not have to have los.


This post has been edited by cyndiloo - August 27, 2013, 02:40:26.
Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-02
posté August 27, 2013, 05:21:07 | #246
Who spams fort? I sure don't.

Even people who did 12 ap builds use to cast Revit, or 3 forts, or invigs. At least, all the enis I know. But you're right maybe there were a couple of players out there who did do these builds just to fort x2 or x3. But, quite frankly to each their own. Whose to say its boring or not

Personally, I always used all three of my main spells revit, invig and fort equally.
Invig: When i was out of mp or needed mp for range
Revit: For nice aoe heals
Fort: To heal past barriers

You are talking about player skill here, not the game play of all of us.

Using fort seems boring but that's because people chose to play that way.
People play differently, and that is ok. They play as the build serves them best.

Ankama shouldn't frustrate you out of -what you like to do- just because people who don't even use that build claim its boring.

Play the way you want to play. People should be allowed to.

We had two or three useless spells?

Not at all, I used my smaller heals to spam heal when I was too far away. The only useless heal I currently have is the 3ap one.. which is STILL useless. I would agree more with this comment if you were to say that the spells were made more useful... but in reality they haven't.

Nothing has been made more useful, nothing, people are now talking about spamming invig instead of fort. Big change... so much more less boring.. If anything more frustrating, putting down a heal that you're not sure if its going to bounce in the right direction.

All they did was make the all spells more f-awful. Break the spells that worked and -leave- the spells that didn't work as they were.

Ankama's biggest flaw: Grou

Ankama's second biggest flaw: Letting grou break what isn't broken and not control him to fix what is broken.



This post has been edited by aquabeauty - August 27, 2013, 05:32:27.
Soft Crackler * Member Since 2011-05-30
posté August 27, 2013, 05:35:57 | #247
oh well....I'm ok with my sadi seem a bit broken as summoner.... (cough doll AI cough)
oh well....it's fine I don't mind that my earth cra lost his only CC spell

OH MY LORD!!!! WP cost for Fort?!!!! I can't endure this anymore!!! and WTH are you doing with our awesome Sadist Mark?!


SURELY I'll RAGE this time....REALLY!!!!


This post has been edited by TinyLaNorthio - August 27, 2013, 05:36:46.
Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2013-04-25
posté August 27, 2013, 08:53:10 | #248
Cambiamento Aniripsa?
Sono curiosissima di vedere come sarà!!!
Però quando faranno il cambiamento Sàcrido???



Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté August 27, 2013, 09:25:39 | #249

Quote
Using fort seems boring but that's because people chose to play that way.

Well, yes and no. People choose to play that way, noone was forcing them to do it, that's true, but it was the most effective way to play, so really had no choice but to use those 2 spells all the time.

Before:
Healing: Not enough ap for Forti or Revi? Use it.
Invigorating: Want to heal a few people but they are too far for Revi? Use it. But then again, I can just use Forti on each of them...
Revitalizing: I use it whenever I want to heal more people.
Renewing: I have 2 spare ap anyway, so why not...
Fortifying: I use it all the time, doesn't matter if I have Los or not.

After revamp:
Healing: My main healing spell, I use it to heal single target.
Invigorating: Good aoe spell with rebounds. I can heal someone far away or even someone I can't reach because of no LOS (because I can use it on someone else and it will rebound to him). I can also aoe a few monsters!
Revitalizing: Best for healing a group of people that are close to me.
Renewing: Same as before, except it cost just 1 ap, so if we lost 1 or more ap (monster took it from us or something) and can't use Healing or something, we can use this one.
Fortifying: Situational. Someone behind that monster needs to be healed fast? I'll use it now.

Basically, every spell has it's purpose now and I would actually have to think what spells to lvl the most, because all of them seems useful now, and that's how it should be, not like before where 2 spells were a must have and then the rest was lvled for +dmg and +res.


This post has been edited by Rokugatsu - August 27, 2013, 09:26:16.
Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2012-01-06
posté August 27, 2013, 10:40:16 | #250
I understand this Grou person is trying to help classes, but I am concerned he doesn't understand how the game play in this game works. As the old saying goes "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".


Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2011-01-21
posté August 27, 2013, 11:14:35 | #251
Hey actually this sounds pretty cool , i mean from what i could gather so far the regeneration stays on the targeted ally permanently until removed by the eni and i didn't read a max targets restriction anywhere so why not screw the old +1ap +mp + range build and just go full ap till reaching 14 ap on a "healer" eni! i mean...per case every turn 1 ap gets deducted from the eni so the eni just casts regeneration on all 5 teammates and then fucks off in some corner tanking 1 or 2 enemies by casting the 3 ap heal 3 times on himself 3 x 3 = 9 + 5 ap for the 5 regenerations = 14 ap , since the push mechanic is fucked and theres no real nonlos spell anymore lets just do it this way , fuuuunnnn~


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2013-02-28
posté August 27, 2013, 12:04:22 | #252
Are the heal bonus and damage bonus of equipment join in both situation, healing and damaging action?


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2010-08-21
posté August 27, 2013, 13:23:04 | #253

Quote (Rokugatsu @ 27 August 2013 09:25) *

Quote
Using fort seems boring but that's because people chose to play that way.

Well, yes and no. People choose to play that way, noone was forcing them to do it, that's true, but it was the most effective way to play, so really had no choice but to use those 2 spells all the time.

Before:
Healing: Not enough ap for Forti or Revi? Use it.
Invigorating: Want to heal a few people but they are too far for Revi? Use it. But then again, I can just use Forti on each of them...
Revitalizing: I use it whenever I want to heal more people.
Renewing: I have 2 spare ap anyway, so why not...
Fortifying: I use it all the time, doesn't matter if I have Los or not.

After revamp:
Healing: My main healing spell, I use it to heal single target.
Invigorating: Good aoe spell with rebounds. I can heal someone far away or even someone I can't reach because of no LOS (because I can use it on someone else and it will rebound to him). I can also aoe a few monsters!
Revitalizing: Best for healing a group of people that are close to me.
Renewing: Same as before, except it cost just 1 ap, so if we lost 1 or more ap (monster took it from us or something) and can't use Healing or something, we can use this one.
Fortifying: Situational. Someone behind that monster needs to be healed fast? I'll use it now.

Basically, every spell has it's purpose now and I would actually have to think what spells to lvl the most, because all of them seems useful now, and that's how it should be, not like before where 2 spells were a must have and then the rest was lvled for +dmg and +res.
I get what you're saying and I'm all on board for variety, I think it's great that heals can do different things and we have a whole lot of things in our arsenal but it's my experience in high level content that when things get difficult your party members get low and you're trying to keep a tank up and then something gets on you and something walks in b/w you and someone else or someone gets pushed away from you and this will happen more than 5 times a fight. When eni has to spend all its time running back and forth healing left and right side of map with a mob on it, the whole thing will crumble.

If they really want us to use all 5 spells take away the los requirement on all 5 of them and I'll gladly use them indiscriminately. If they don't want us to use fort word too often b/c it's too good, put non los on the 3 ap spell, invig, anything, I don't care, the 1 ap spell.

Both masq and sadida have a spell they can use to heal someone with no los at least once per turn not 6 times per fight. Put a once per turn limit on fortifying word, I won't care, i will not mind if you remove that wp cost. Take the healing down to half of what it does and I can still work with it if you take off that wp cost. Give me some way to reliably escape lock and it can stay. If i can navigate a battlefield as easily as a masq can with dodges and switches or as a sadida can even with being able to gust anything out of my way or have multiple dolls extend my reach. . .

If it wasn't for eniraiser for rezzes and removing magic effects and the fact that ankama seems determined to let no other healers heal themselves efficiently, I think that masq and sadida would be better choices now than eni in many situations.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay been testing in the dojo with the new build. A level 125 coney heals for 87 at max level with chromatic heals on my character

My eni has 386 water damage and 165 plus heals. The turn bonus 100 heals didn't increase coney healing at all nor did it increase the healing of regen which at level 125 with my stats heals for 118 but after the first turn leaving it on a target costs 2 ap every turn deducted from your max ap at the start of your turn. Might be worth it in a 12 ap build just to cover someone who is running off to get behind mobs and put themself in danger out of los but it's inferior by far to what you can heal on your own for the cost.

A level 104 renewing word non crit heals for 74 for 1 ap, and for 2 ap you could do it twice for 156 and you could crit which you can't do on regen, so regen is very underpowered and expensive for what you get. Regen says it's a 35 heal chromatic but it appears to not take into consideration plus healing at all so all you get is your water damage.

There's no need to level unnatural remedies at all as water. At zero it costs 2 ap and 1 mp but after level 2 the cost raises to 2ap and 2mp and you only get about 5 percent heals per level topping out at max at a bonus of 30 heals and damage. It lets you do damage just fine if you don't put any points in it all.

Fortifying word despite its limitations is a beast. At level 114 it crit for around 975. my level 129 invig word crits on the first application for over 700 which is about what my old fort word crit for. On a non crit it did 490. At level 129 the 3 ap spell healing word crits for 496 for me and does about 328 non crit. All of this was done with insignificant levels of hygiene stacked.

I put unnatural remedies on myself and stood by the target dummy and cast invig word and it did not bounce to friendly targets to do damage or heal them. It ignored my coney that I stabbed to low health with a dagger and put by the target dummy. Revit word when cast on dummy and coney did damage to both. There is no way I can think of to see if invig will bounce to close by enemy units and do damage under unnatural remedies much like it does as a healing spell on friendly targets b/c I can only face one enemy at a time here in dojo.

In conclusion I think coney is pretty low on the healing scale but he does stay around a long time and his greater benefit is using him as a healing beacon to extend the range and heal people who are out of los with invig word. My coney has 328 hp and inherited all my damage and resists. I think invig word and healing word are your go to healing spells and you'll just have to save fort word for someone who's almost dead. Considering the thing heals for close to 1000 on a crit, it's a waste to cast it on anyone who's not down a considerable amount of hp. I didn't max this spell compared to healing word and invig word b/c you can only use it 6 times per fight. I put it at 110 while I put the others at 125. I put the 1 ap spell at 100 because it gain 1 healing going from 99 to 100. I put the 5 ap spell at 90. It does have 1 more range than it used to and if you can get 3 targets clustered it might be worth it, but otherwise I think invig can do everything it can do and it doesn't require a cluster formation and can be used to bounce all over the place. Regen is lackluster at best and sucks 2 ap from you per turn for less than you can heal yourself with 2 ap.

Considering the insane healing of fort word I chose not to even level transcendence. If I want to lose it on myself I can do that at level zero and skip a turn and do nothing but move myself out of harm's way. At max you could get someone with no los up to 9 squares away on mine, but with the wp cost, I'd rather just heal them from 6 square away with no los for a hell of alot and still allow them to do damage on their turn. It only puts off the inevitable and takes up 1/6th of your healing potential on your most overpowered heal.

At 125 I had enough pts to max coney, regen, eniraiser, absorption, expert healer and const. I have 50 pts leftover. If I spend them on unnatural remedies, i increase the damage slightly but i also increase the cost by 1mp. I'm not terribly excited about putting points in transcendence but I guess it's where I will go next as master propagator and massacuring mark are both going to be useless to a water pure eni.

In the top section I went with the standard 1 ap 1mp 1 range, and then I pumped chance and 7 crits, though I strongly consider just putting everything else into dodge. I'm not sure it wouldn't be better in the long run b/c though I gained around 30 chance and 7 crits, being more able to move freely around the battlefield might be preferable but even with that I would not have had but 200 dodge and I would probably still be risking lock on high level monsters at an unacceptable rate. Until the new dodge/lock system is added, I don't want to attempt a dodge and lose an entire turn at a critical moment. It appears fear flask will still move a target without releasing propagator but I can't test that in the dojo either.


This post has been edited by cyndiloo - August 27, 2013, 15:36:22.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté August 27, 2013, 15:52:48 | #254
To test Invig you need to make a new Eni and fight Wodents or test it before entering the Dojo.

I assume these massive numbers i'm hearing for Eni heals are unintended? Can we get some sort or word from Ankama please.

I want to make an Eni that's not water but... this is sounding too good to pass up.


Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2011-07-05
posté August 27, 2013, 17:45:29 | #255
Just so you know:

UR costs 2ap 2mp from levels 1-9, while level 0 is 2ap 1mp cost.

All Water spells are always damage with UR, and AoEs will hurt allies.

When in UR, invig does NOT bounce to an ally and damage them

The chromatic heal on coney appears to use heal bonus, 12 base with 282% water damage shouldnt be 60 heals if it was only using my highest (water) damage. but with my heal bonus of 121 is added the math works out just fine.

Invig only rebounds once, even though the ingame description says 3 times still.

Sadist Mark heal from killing a monster is a base heal, effected by fire damage (seems to be the eni's fire damage) However, in the training dummy fights, it would always max heal my eni, as in it actually said in game I healed all that health directly from sadist mark, I could heal well over 1khp with the mark, in the training room. That bug seems to be isolated to the training room, though, but i wont be surprised if I find it elsewhere.


This post has been edited by smallz117 - August 27, 2013, 19:16:35.
Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2012-03-25
posté August 27, 2013, 18:12:15 | #256
and not a single eni was made that day.. week.. month.. year.. ever again o.e

thanks.

There is this huge dilemma of also not knowing how to distribute your points now.. i mean, i aim for 12 ap with stat points and the sets available in game now only to have a better set come along in the future and be like.. well thanks what a waste of stat points, coz i didnt need it for that extra major mp loveliness you guys provided for us also..

PS. does anyone notice how Unrem costs 2 ap and 1 mp at level 1 yet at max level they add an extra mp for comfort?


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-04-03
posté August 27, 2013, 20:32:08 | #257
After a little bit of testing, I went for revitalizing, invigorating and healing words as main spells. First one is almost maxed while other two are 95-ish. Maxed eniraser, expert healer, absorption, constitution on both enis, the rest of points are left for more testing. Don't want to mess my builds up, going to test new trans, regen and coney a lot.
Liked the new regeneration, went for it on heals-based eni. Maxed UR on the water dmg-based one, but probably I would regret that. 10 ap build: UR -2 ap, revit -5 ap (deals about 480 at crit), healing word -3 ap (250ish) or invig -4ap x2 (400ish). 600-800 dpt if you are lucky. But if there are no crits at the turn, amount of damage dealt via UR is almost the same as I deal with maka/dagger attacks. So, probably new UR won't be useful at teamplay at all - now nearly everyone is a better DD than eni. And also we have to choose between healing and damaging, this is a crap. My older eni is still able to tank, but not deal damage anymore.
Speaking of healing abilities, they have been increased. People already said enough about it, water eni is still the best healer IF she can reach the target.

I believe Ankama is going to rethink on Fortifying word cost OR value. Let's look at other classes' WP spells at lvl 200: iop's wrath has base 172 (66% chance of explosion as well), enu's refinement has 206, eca's die alright has 212. Fortifying word has 138. Totally fair, isn't it?

I'm still very confused and lost. "We are dead! We've survived but we're dead!", yeah.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-01-07
posté August 27, 2013, 21:06:45 | #258
Can someone please tell me if fire based heals are now affected by +heals?


Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2011-07-05
posté August 27, 2013, 21:24:13 | #259

Quote (Seguchi-sama @ 27 August 2013 20:32) *
I believe Ankama is going to rethink on Fortifying word cost OR value. Let's look at other classes' WP spells at lvl 200: iop's wrath has base 172 (66% chance of explosion as well), enu's refinement has 206, eca's die alright has 212. Fortifying word has 138. Totally fair, isn't it?

Iop's Wrath - 6ap 1wp.
Enu's Refinement - 6ap 1wp.
Eca's Die Alright - 6ap 1wp,
Eni's Fort Word - 4ap 1wp.

Are you trying to say to buff Fort's damage and changing the cost to 6ap 1wp?


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté August 27, 2013, 21:24:17 | #260

Quote (Seguchi-sama @ 27 August 2013 20:32) *
I believe Ankama is going to rethink on Fortifying word cost OR value. Let's look at other classes' WP spells at lvl 200: iop's wrath has base 172 (66% chance of explosion as well), enu's refinement has 206, eca's die alright has 212. Fortifying word has 138. Totally fair, isn't it?

You're comparing Fort to 6AP spells and one of them is an AoE. It may do 138 for 4ap, but scale that to match the others and it's 207 for 6ap.

Fort is 3 range with no LoS needed. As a heal it doesn't contend with resist. Seems awfully powerful to me.

It does cost an extra 0.5WP on average, but, meh, it's fine as is.