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Letter to the Community - October 2013
Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2010-11-04
posté October 24, 2013, 12:55:34 | #41
"We were able to correct a large majority of the bugs that you have reported, but as you have seen our goal has not been achieved due to the large number of bugs that appeared after the last game update."

I really respect that you are able to admit it and then focus on finding a better way to deal with this issue. Honestly, i liked everything that was said here. :] This is the kind of attitude that i want to see from game developers.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-03-15
posté October 24, 2013, 14:48:21 | #42

Quote (Troyle @ 24 October 2013 09:30) *
Regarding Sadidas, this is precisely what Azael tried to explain. There is a big difference between rebalancing, and revamping.

Revamping means that we’re changing the mechanics of a class.
Rebalancing means that we keep the same spells and mechanics, but modify their values.

When Azael says we will stop revamping the classes, it doesn’t mean that values will not be changed.

Changing an AP cost is considered as rebalancing, and is something that could be done later. First they will fix the AI issue (by simply removing the AI and giving control to the player), and then will see if more tweaks are needed.
thank you troyle, this is the best news ankama could give real sadida players
the problem is that there aren't sadida players

you have a lot of data that says that there are, but most are alts for UBs (sudden chill). Real sadida players know how bad a summoner sadida really is.

but thank you so much, at least I know that the class devs are listening

so many classes keep getting modifications for the better, strong classes like rogue and enutrofs. sadida players just ask for the same care or at least for the few big issues. AI is a problem but it's actually not the worst but it's an amazing change (if you don't lower greedy's damage to 20 base damage or something).

I'm happy but I'm watching 


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-03
posté October 24, 2013, 23:27:17 | #43
Sadidas don't need a revamp they just need some rebalancing because the current ap/mp/wp costs are out of wack. Do I agree with wp back? not fully but it could get better with some rebalancing.

I cant wait to see some changes for sadi. Really hope you guys aim towards focusing on branches other than the water branch. Passives like lone sadi and doll link could use some tweaking. Also the air branch = dmg branch? that branch is fail.

Otherwise, sounds good can't wait to start seeing results.


This post has been edited by aquabeauty - October 24, 2013, 23:30:21.
Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2011-11-11
posté October 25, 2013, 03:23:53 | #44
Sadfu: The World of Sadidas

Sadida Thread activate!

Let the invasion begin~!


This post has been edited by smallz117 - October 25, 2013, 03:24:11.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-03-01
posté October 25, 2013, 03:37:32 | #45

Quote (aquabeauty @ 24 October 2013 23:27) *
Sadidas don't need a revamp they just need some rebalancing because the current ap/mp/wp costs are out of wack. Do I agree with wp back? not fully but it could get better with some rebalancing.

I cant wait to see some changes for sadi. Really hope you guys aim towards focusing on branches other than the water branch. Passives like lone sadi and doll link could use some tweaking. Also the air branch = dmg branch? that branch is fail.

Otherwise, sounds good can't wait to start seeing results.
If you stopped trying to be a dps you'd realize sadidas are pretty good right now


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-03-15
posté October 25, 2013, 03:53:48 | #46

Quote (MiniMikeh @ 25 October 2013 03:37) *

Quote (aquabeauty @ 24 October 2013 23:27) *
Sadidas don't need a revamp they just need some rebalancing because the current ap/mp/wp costs are out of wack. Do I agree with wp back? not fully but it could get better with some rebalancing.

I cant wait to see some changes for sadi. Really hope you guys aim towards focusing on branches other than the water branch. Passives like lone sadi and doll link could use some tweaking. Also the air branch = dmg branch? that branch is fail.

Otherwise, sounds good can't wait to start seeing results.
If you stopped trying to be a dps you'd realize sadidas are pretty good right now
Would you replace an iop or earth rogue for a sudden chill sadida?
Be honest please

the exception being 1 or 2 UBs

Creating a class for 1 or 2 UBs? That shows how bad the class is


Mister Winter Fashion Victim 2012 * Member Since 2012-12-20
posté October 25, 2013, 05:42:28 | #47
Sadida don't strike me as the DPT niche at all. Air looks like a saboteur, earth a support tank, and water a healer.

That being said, perhaps some of the poison effects in the air branch could use some buffing along with a re-evaluation of doll costs.

But other than that, you make the healing any better and they'll be nearly better than an Eniripsa (while also being a fairly solid damage dealing tree with a spell like Tear) and if you make the shielding stronger it's too powerful since it's a 100% Coagulation.

• Mango


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2011-08-16
posté October 25, 2013, 05:46:32 | #48
Know what worries me hardcore? More than all the glaring problems that Wakfu has?

The fact that some Wakfu staff left the company, namely one game designer.

Wakfu devs and community managers, I'm worried about this game because it hasn't ever had good leadership that has been able to manage resources into the proper ideas. I'm worried because, for some questions we've asked for ages, we've gotten questions that border on making no sense. (Really? You're telling us that Tokens are bad because you don't want a metric ton of "useless" items cluttering up your DBs? Token Tiers never came to mind / didn't work? Token Tier exchanges either? Generic dungeon points?) We've gotten some good signs, but they either rarely pan out or only work for isolated cases. (I almost feel terrible for Fecas, since I expect something similar to the Eni thing to happen to them.)

I'll always give a company the benefit of the doubt with regards to bugs and to AI, since these are two huge and ridiculous time sinks; there's no doubt in my mind that the content they implement takes plenty of time to debug just for AI error, especially of the "It just stops doing things" variety. You've done an admirable job at this, Ankama, and I salute you.

I'm just really worried. I haven't played this game in months, and I'd love to play this as my main game. Always have loved it, but there's just something wrong when you hear all of these things at once.

(As a side note, I kinda wish I'd be able to apply for Ankama, esp. since I'm going to graduate soon; sadly, I know no french. :c )

I guess... good luck? And good hunting, Azael. I think you'll need it.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-03-15
posté October 25, 2013, 06:07:10 | #49

Quote (Brokonaut @ 25 October 2013 05:42) *
Sadida don't strike me as the DPT niche at all. Air looks like a saboteur, earth a support tank, and water a healer.

That being said, perhaps some of the poison effects in the air branch could use some buffing along with a re-evaluation of doll costs.

But other than that, you make the healing any better and they'll be nearly better than an Eniripsa (while also being a fairly solid damage dealing tree with a spell like Tear) and if you make the shielding stronger it's too powerful since it's a 100% Coagulation.

• Mango

I don't think your explanation is a breakthrough and you're stating general stuff that no one even talked about.

If you don't play sadida (you have one as an UB alt I bet) then why not let sadida players tell the devs what's wrong with the class instead?

you're misguiding the devs by saying what you're saying. poison is supposed to do damage, the only spell that plays with resists is sudden chill.

A branch can't be based on one spell

But the real issue is the AP cost for dolls so I want them to fix that soon. Weak dolls that cost 7AP isn't right in any way. Even osa's wabbit pets heal a lot and they cost 3AP

btw can we please stop saying what we already know. I know what air, earth, water sadidas are, no one needs to tell us.


Mister Winter Fashion Victim 2012 * Member Since 2012-12-20
posté October 25, 2013, 06:12:12 | #50

Quote (Neneko88 @ 25 October 2013 06:07) *
I don't think your explanation is a breakthrough and you're stating general stuff that no one even talked about.

If you don't play sadida (you have one as an UB alt I bet) then why not let sadida players tell the devs what's wrong with the class instead?

you're misguiding the devs by saying what you're saying. poison is supposed to do damage, the only spell that plays with resists is sudden chill.

A branch can't be based on one spell

But the real issue is the AP cost for dolls so I want them to fix that soon. Weak dolls that cost 7AP isn't right in any way. Even osa's wabbit pets heal a lot and they cost 3AP

btw can we please stop saying what we already know. I know what air, earth, water sadidas are, no one needs to tell us.

No, I don't own a Sadida. I simply know Sadida that built their characters right, and are more flexible than just UB battles.

All you did in your post is agree with the two points that I made in my last post. That being buff the air branch and re-assess the cost of dolls.

• Mango

Edit: More importantly, I did address the topic of the discussion from literally two posts ago, that being the DPT capabilities of an Sadida (there shouldn't be incredible direct DPT capabilities beyond poison damage, which as I already said could use a buff to be on par with direct DPT classes). Please take a moment to collect yourself and properly respond without sounding like you're on a high horse. I reserve every right to input my own opinion on the class as much as you do.


This post has been edited by Brokonaut - October 25, 2013, 06:42:42.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-03-15
posté October 25, 2013, 07:04:07 | #51

Quote (Brokonaut @ 25 October 2013 06:12) *

Quote (Neneko88 @ 25 October 2013 06:07) *
I don't think your explanation is a breakthrough and you're stating general stuff that no one even talked about.

If you don't play sadida (you have one as an UB alt I bet) then why not let sadida players tell the devs what's wrong with the class instead?

you're misguiding the devs by saying what you're saying. poison is supposed to do damage, the only spell that plays with resists is sudden chill.

A branch can't be based on one spell

But the real issue is the AP cost for dolls so I want them to fix that soon. Weak dolls that cost 7AP isn't right in any way. Even osa's wabbit pets heal a lot and they cost 3AP

btw can we please stop saying what we already know. I know what air, earth, water sadidas are, no one needs to tell us.

No, I don't own a Sadida. I simply know Sadida that built their characters right, and are more flexible than just UB battles.

All you did in your post is agree with the two points that I made in my last post. That being buff the air branch and re-assess the cost of dolls.

• Mango
so your point is?
I stated first that sadida doll cost is too much and you're stating?

we all know what air sadida does. -resists and push things. aqua already said what they needed. you're acting like we need a lesson in anything.


Mister Winter Fashion Victim 2012 * Member Since 2012-12-20
posté October 25, 2013, 07:31:13 | #52

Quote (Neneko88 @ 25 October 2013 07:04) *
so your point is?
I stated first that sadida doll cost is too much and you're stating?

we all know what air sadida does. -resists and push things. aqua already said what they needed. you're acting like we need a lesson in anything.

Bringing up doll costs is besides the point. I don't see anywhere in this thread where Aqua mentioned how to tweak the air branch appropriately.

We're talking about the damage capabilities of a class, and the value of an air DPT Sadida in a group. Their base damages are fine. What needs tweaking and buffing is the Intoxicated state and Tetatoxin.

I don't think you realize that I agree with most points that Sadida complainers bring up. For example I always felt like Sadida deserved the power to unbewitch both enemies and allies. Give them back Insolent Bramble from Dofus.

It's a support class that needs better support options since a true DPT one isn't available. K'mir and Gust are great but obviously not enough to, as you mentioned, merit it being a DPT option over a Iop or a Rogue unless you specifically need those skills in your pocket for an encounter.

• Mango


Scary Polter * Member Since 2012-03-05
posté October 25, 2013, 11:28:03 | #53
speaking about dispels

Is it only one dispell in game (eniraiser)? and it is one per turn use . What bothers me is that it there is no way to tell which buff can be dispelled and which does not, only by trial and error. Dofus already separated unbewitchable buffs and non-unbewitchable states.

I wish there were more dispel options, better explanation for buffs/states


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté October 31, 2013, 05:30:55 | #54
I always thought it would be interesting if there was a class that could move states between characters and copy other things bonuses.

Imo there are 2 things that would make the saddida player base happy enough, let still life work with dolls and make seeds cost 1 ap because having dolls that cost 6 ap is way too much.

A small doll hp buff would be good too, even with 50% aoe damage they still get one shotted pretty easily.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté November 01, 2013, 11:15:59 | #55

Quote (Troyle @ 24 October 2013 09:30) *
Regarding Sadidas, this is precisely what Azael tried to explain. There is a big difference between rebalancing, and revamping.

Revamping means that we’re changing the mechanics of a class.
Rebalancing means that we keep the same spells and mechanics, but modify their values.

When Azael says we will stop revamping the classes, it doesn’t mean that values will not be changed.

Changing an AP cost is considered as rebalancing, and is something that could be done later. First they will fix the AI issue (by simply removing the AI and giving control to the player), and then will see if more tweaks are needed.
If that's how you name things, then i should start with saying that revamp of Sadida class was not needed in the first place. In face we needed rebalancing of the Sadidda class, instead of the whole revamp. Like, everything we really needed before the revamp took place, was to make dolls refund the WP cost when they die or make them not cost WP to summon at all. That was the only thing that really needed change. You have revamped too much for the Sadida.

However the addtion of new dolls and Bramble Armor mechanic was nice and thats already a revamp, in wich case i can't say the revamp was all that bad.

This again makes me not satisfied. I understand you can increase dmg of the spell Rust (or change it to 4AP with 44 dmg at lvl 100) or the cost of dolls and the dolls themself can be changed, and maybe you will even increase the dmg/heal the Explodoll provide (especially at lower levels to make its value noticable in fight with each distribution point invested in Explodoll passive), but you have already replaced the best of Sadida specialities - something that made me want to play this class in the first place: the Doll Link passive.

Before the revamp Sadida was able to TANK, by making the dolls take part of the dmg for it. Now in order for Sadida to tank, we have to spend all of our AP's on ourself to make Bramble Armor, wich means we can't really attack while tanking, we also can't support the dolls, nor allies, if we want to tank now. The change that was made to Doll Link made Sadida unable to face enemies in pvp that can easily KO it with high damage burst (Ecaflips or Osamodas as example).

Therefore i am not asking for the whole revamp of the Sadida class. However i do ask for the Doll Link to work for every doll summoned, not just Voodoll. Make the dolls take dmg for Sadida, even if Sadida is directly hit. This is the only request i have. Call it a rebalancing of the Doll Link spell - so that it will work with all dolls, not just with voodoll. If its possible, please do that. Afterall you don't change the mechanic of this spell, you just make it work with more then 1 target (aka you make it redirect dmg from Sadida to all dolls instead of just voodoll). This change would make current Doll Link users not change their build (though i doubt there are any Sadida using it considering how weak this passive is with just 1 voodoll) while it would bring back the former builds of the Sadida class available.

As for the dolls themself i think its unfair that they are so fragile. The single osamodas summon can have more then 100%of the Osamodas itself (I've seen one osamodas with 1200 HP, while summon had 1500 HP). That being said if the 3 dolls are supposed to be equal to 1 summon of osamodas, then you have to make them have ~35% of Sadida HP. The Greedy should have 30% of Sadida HP, and Blocker should have 40%. Madoll and lethargic doesnt need much HP but even these 2 dolls should have at least 20% of Sadida HP.

Also the resistance on dolls doesn't increase properly to fit the new content. Therefore it would be best if all of the dolls had the same resistance as Sadida (regardless of the element of the doll).

I am saying this now, to make you have the overview of what players except from dolls revamp.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - November 01, 2013, 11:25:01.
Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2011-09-21
posté November 02, 2013, 21:30:26 | #56
Fix the xp curve and I will come back.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2011-05-17
posté November 04, 2013, 02:08:54 | #57
While I am glad to see they are finally acknowledging the fact that the Sadida revamp was not well liked, to put it lightly, they are still missing the main point of our frustration; the general uselessness of dolls. Even under player control the impact of the doll is too low to matter especially when paired with the ridiculously high costs to summon them.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-03-15
posté November 04, 2013, 04:16:38 | #58

Quote (Loneith @ 04 November 2013 02:08) *
While I am glad to see they are finally acknowledging the fact that the Sadida revamp was not well liked, to put it lightly, they are still missing the main point of our frustration; the general uselessness of dolls. Even under player control the impact of the doll is too low to matter especially when paired with the ridiculously high costs to summon them.
the fact that they're going to "wait and see if giving us control of dolls will be enough" shows that Grou doesn't understand the class.

Greedys hit what they're supposed to hit most of the time. All dolls cast their spells and all that, giving us control will make the class a little better but it won't solve the issue that they do too little per turn to not be replaced by better support classes like panda, eni, xelor, feca, and even earth osa..(you should really see an earth osa! they're amazing and do a lot for little AP)

weak dolls..should cost weak AP (this is logic)


This post has been edited by Neneko88 - November 04, 2013, 04:16:59.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté November 05, 2013, 10:31:07 | #59

Quote (Neneko88 @ 04 November 2013 04:16) *

Quote (Loneith @ 04 November 2013 02:08) *
While I am glad to see they are finally acknowledging the fact that the Sadida revamp was not well liked, to put it lightly, they are still missing the main point of our frustration; the general uselessness of dolls. Even under player control the impact of the doll is too low to matter especially when paired with the ridiculously high costs to summon them.
the fact that they're going to "wait and see if giving us control of dolls will be enough" shows that Grou doesn't understand the class.

Greedys hit what they're supposed to hit most of the time. All dolls cast their spells and all that, giving us control will make the class a little better but it won't solve the issue that they do too little per turn to not be replaced by better support classes like panda, eni, xelor, feca, and even earth osa..(you should really see an earth osa! they're amazing and do a lot for little AP)

weak dolls..should cost weak AP (this is logic)
I think that giving control to all dolls by default would make Sadida gameplay even worse then now. With the AI of dolls i can at least relay on them when there's a bug that makes enemy invisible to anyone (dolls AI still "see" them, wich is a life saver in those situations), and also when Sadida lag or disconnects, the dolls can still attack. If they would make dolls controled by default, then Sadida who lags out will not only not attack itself, but the dolls will also not attack!

It will also make it painful to summon dolls and control them every freaking turn. I like the ability to control them when i need them to, but i would prefer if AI would control them for me all the time, because lets face it: why would i control Blocker every turn, if it already have enemy in close combat? The AI is the issue and its the AI that need to be fixed. I'd suggest going with 110 lvl Sadida (and ~250% or 300% water dmg) to Larva dungeon and test the AI of greedy dolls there. After that experience i am sure Ankama will realise whats wrong with dolls AI and fix it properly. A simple and relaible AI of greedy doll would be to attack closest enemy. That would be realy enough. If we want doll to chase after "Weakened enemy" who keep running away, then we would obviously control the doll with a spell to do so, but we dont want the doll to risk being locked while it tries to "figure out wich enemy to hit", wich is the worst about the AI. The greedy dolls should not aim for weakest enemy, they should not aim for enemy with less HP or less resistance, UNLESS they have 2 or more targets in close combat already. If the very weak enemy is 2 cell away, while full hp enemy is in the Greedy lock zone, then that Greedy should STILL attack the one in its own close combat. However if the weak enemy is in close combat to Greedy and full HP enemy is also in close combat with the same Greedy, then the Greedy doll should aim for the weaker one obviously - but thats the only situation where Greedy should "decide who to hit".

As for Madoll, Lethargic and Inflatable dolls - they should not run away after they cast their spell, because it makes them not relaible when Nettle is triggered (an example: as long as inflatable with 2MP is always somewhere near ally to heal it, if Green Guard get triggered, then Nettled Inflatable will run far away from allies, and if Green guard will not be triggered on 2nd turn, then the Inflatable will remain too far away from allies to heal them for several turns - wich is why these 3 dolls should STOP moving after they cast their spell).


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - November 05, 2013, 10:32:30.
Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2011-05-17
posté November 06, 2013, 08:34:45 | #60

Quote (Neneko88 @ 04 November 2013 04:16) *

Quote (Loneith @ 04 November 2013 02:08) *
While I am glad to see they are finally acknowledging the fact that the Sadida revamp was not well liked, to put it lightly, they are still missing the main point of our frustration; the general uselessness of dolls. Even under player control the impact of the doll is too low to matter especially when paired with the ridiculously high costs to summon them.
the fact that they're going to "wait and see if giving us control of dolls will be enough" shows that Grou doesn't understand the class.

Greedys hit what they're supposed to hit most of the time. All dolls cast their spells and all that, giving us control will make the class a little better but it won't solve the issue that they do too little per turn to not be replaced by better support classes like panda, eni, xelor, feca, and even earth osa..(you should really see an earth osa! they're amazing and do a lot for little AP)

weak dolls..should cost weak AP (this is logic)

Exactly, they do not know what to do with the class and are refusing to open a discussion and incorporate our ideas. Sadida are currently the class that does a little bit of everything but not very well. Our damage output is far lower than a dps class. Our healing is much lower than an eni and our utility is much lower. Our ability to take damage may seem splendid but we lack the control other damage soaks posses that are required for a true tank class. Our support skills are focused mainly around the costly doll mechanic which people tend to avoid. The quick fix, Lone Sadida, was the exact opposite of what the community was crying out for. This skill, which makes most of the other support and passive skills moot, also makes other classes think we are too strong when they see a huge 150% damage bonus. That may seem high until you realize the class has abysmal base damage and horrible ap efficiency.

The elemental branches make very little sense thematically or strategically. Air, our "damage" branch has the weakest hitting spells that fail to work cohesively, and the most awkward range. Our water tree, supposedly our support and healing tree, has only one direct healing spell which is really quite weak. Our other two healing options are costly and require massive tactical play to even cast, let alone be worth casting. Our so called tanking tree has the highest range and base damage of the three and paired with the wonky spell mechanics push a player to use spells for damage rather than utility.

This class does need a revamp, a complete overhaul to be honest, but that would require a willingness to listen to the community and a competent coding team. I am in no way trying to disrespect the company, in fact I hope to one day work for them as part of the coding or design team, but facts are facts and time and time again they have failed to properly handle this class. Wise use of resources, as in fixing the most pressing options first rather than simply pressing on, would raise this game to an enjoyable level. If our class is meant to incorporate dolls into our game play then make the dolls efficient and rewarding to play with. If it is difficult to balance the class then spend more time and resources to do so rather than charging into more bug-filled cookie-cutter content!

TLDR; A willingness to absorb the entire content of a situation is required to understand the nuances of said situation. If this is too long then you should just quit right now before you dribble more ill informed opine statements into a forum where individuals are actually campaigning for positive balance. Kthx