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Revamping the experience curve
Scary Polter * Member Since 2012-02-03
posté December 04, 2013, 18:59:39 | #21

Quote (3xited @ 04 December 2013 16:00) *
A character will gain 100% XP if he fights a monster with a level difference of 10 maximum. It will then lower progressively to offer an acceptable range of monsters to fight.
  • Monsters are too hard
This extreme is reached when the monster has 70 levels more than the player. Passed this level, the player will not gain any XP.
It makes sense in groups, so people won't get XP be "leeching" too fast. But can you give me 1 logical reason, why would I get less (or even 0) exp for harder fights as solo player?
Atm, I get 1 XP for soloing fights, that aren't even that hard. This makes 0 sense to me and I thought, you will change it with this update. But no, this senseless formula still goes through.


@edit I just want to add, that I'm not mad or anything and I know, it's too late for any changes. But I'm just really, really curious. 3xited, Troyle, Sabi or whoever. Can you ask the author of this idea, what was his reasoning behind this?
Because your current explanation is like "Players will get no xp from hard fight, because I said so and deal with it". Just tell me what's the point of this, please.


This post has been edited by krowakot - December 04, 2013, 19:19:17.
Dokushuuuuu * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté December 04, 2013, 19:06:23 | #22
Agree with Krowakot, we should be rewarder for fighting stronger monsters, not punished.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2013-02-06
posté December 04, 2013, 19:15:36 | #23
Agree RE: harder fights. I don't might getting a little penalty for winning fights I shouldn't be able to win but just drop XP to 50% or something. 0 is ridiculous. Disable credit for being outnumbered etc.

So many times I've wandered groupless and just got bored + decided to solo Lunar or something. Also makes it hard when you have a group with lots of mobs around that you can handle but maybe a bit strong for your group.

If there's any way to implement the alt XP system this update you would score massive points.


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2013-06-20
posté December 04, 2013, 19:25:33 | #24
If you have a group of 3 + 3 multimen and fight a group of 3 monsters, does that count as outnumbering them?

You should compensate those who have worked hard to get to high levels with the current XP curve. Lvl 140s will lose 2.2mil xp? How many hours is that? Compensate characters at least half the XP that they lost to apply toward the next levels.

Also, you should allow enu stacks of PP to affect the drop rates beyond the 150. Enus are a support class geared toward getting drops, but when you limit the pp to only 150 and increasingly put pp in higher level equips, they start to have very little advantage over the other classes in terms of drops.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-01-15
posté December 04, 2013, 19:36:06 | #25
Some of this feels kind of strange to me. Why exactly does fighting a mob 10 levels higher start to decrease in experience. If a player takes the time to kill a mob of this level then why not grant the experience reward for it? If power leveling is that big of a deal why not make a system more inline to stop that instead of hurting a player legitimately taking on stronger mobs.


Mister Winter Fashion Victim 2012 * Member Since 2012-12-16
posté December 04, 2013, 19:39:39 | #26
I'm glad you at least get some increased XP now when outnumbered instead of zero XP or next to no XP.

What happens if you have higher XP than the XP to next level after the update? Will you just level up into the next level or the next fight or will it bug?

e.g. You have 150 million into the next level requiring 160 million as the servers shut down but after the update you only need say 90 million to level up?

• Mango


Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2010-12-17
posté December 04, 2013, 19:49:01 | #27

Quote (Brokonaut @ 04 December 2013 19:39) *
I'm glad you at least get some increased XP now when outnumbered instead of zero XP or next to no XP.

What happens if you have higher XP than the XP to next level after the update? Will you just level up into the next level or the next fight or will it bug?

e.g. You have 150 million into the next level requiring 160 million as the servers shut down but after the update you only need say 90 million to level up?

• Mango
maybe your % of exp will remain the same.
I mean, 150 to 160m is about 90%
if with the update you will need 90m to level up, your exp will be about 84m

150 : 160 = ~84 : 90


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-12-14
posté December 04, 2013, 19:51:26 | #28

Quote (krowakot @ 04 December 2013 18:59) *

Quote (3xited @ 04 December 2013 16:00) *
A character will gain 100% XP if he fights a monster with a level difference of 10 maximum. It will then lower progressively to offer an acceptable range of monsters to fight.
  • Monsters are too hard
This extreme is reached when the monster has 70 levels more than the player. Passed this level, the player will not gain any XP.
It makes sense in groups, so people won't get XP be "leeching" too fast. But can you give me 1 logical reason, why would I get less (or even 0) exp for harder fights as solo player?
Atm, I get 1 XP for soloing fights, that aren't even that hard. This makes 0 sense to me and I thought, you will change it with this update. But no, this senseless formula still goes through.


@edit I just want to add, that I'm not mad or anything and I know, it's too late for any changes. But I'm just really, really curious. 3xited, Troyle, Sabi or whoever. Can you ask the author of this idea, what was his reasoning behind this?
Because your current explanation is like "Players will get no xp from hard fight, because I said so and deal with it". Just tell me what's the point of this, please.
If I am reading the revamp correctly, the revamp actually helps address this issue. Take a level 60 character killing a group of 6 polters (level 50 each, level 300 in total). The current system compares the total group level of the groups in battle (60 versus 300) and applies penalties based on that. Specifically, if the enemy group level is greater than 2.05 * character group level + 70, the characters receive 0 exp, which is clearly the case in this situation (300 > 2.05*60 + 70). The big problem with the current system is its emphasis on total group level, which is clearly flawed when considering the difficulty of two level 150 enemies versus six level 50 enemies.

In the new system, total group levels no longer matter. Exp modifiers are now based on individual player level, average enemy level, and number of combatants on both sides. In this case, the player's level (60) in within 10 levels of the average enemy level (50) and thus doesn't get any exp penalty for that. The player is outnumbered by five, so the exp given by those five enemies is reduced by 50%. This results in getting 3.5x the normal exp for a polter for completing the fight rather than 0x in the current system..

Players getting an exp penalty for fighting an enemy group with far higher enemy average level exists to counter power leveling. Remember that this is based on individual level and not group level, so if a level 60 and level 130 fight a group of two level 130 enemies, the level 60 appropriately gets 0 exp and the level 130 gets normal exp, as the level 60 would not be able to significantly contribute in this fight. This is not the case in the current exp system, which only considers the total group level (130 + 60 versus 130 + 130), allowing for power leveling. This really shouldn't affect solo players anyways as it is extremely inefficient to solo things far higher level than them.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-02
posté December 04, 2013, 19:57:35 | #29
My only concern which I will propose as a question in hope of inciting a conversation that will respond with different views/analysis/solutions etc.

We all give plvling a bad rep. But for a player like me who has multiple characters past 120 and plvl a certain classes to suit my team depending on the demand of the game/ class nerfs (like replacing my sadida) etc (insert stealth, head nerfs rant here) plvling was a solution to my problems.

Now you're forcing me to relive content?

I. Don't. Want. To.




Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-06-02
posté December 04, 2013, 20:27:58 | #30

Quote (aquabeauty @ 04 December 2013 19:57) *
My only concern which I will propose as a question in hope of inciting a conversation that will respond with different views/analysis/solutions etc.

We all give plvling a bad rep. But for a player like me who has multiple characters past 120 and plvl a certain classes to suit my team depending on the demand of the game/ class nerfs (like replacing my sadida) etc (insert stealth, head nerfs rant here) plvling was a solution to my problems.

Now you're forcing me to relive content?

I. Don't. Want. To.

If you caught the bottom of the post, multiple characters will have increased experience gain up to the level of your other characters on that account, in a similar fashion to Dofus. I think with this, old players who already have 2+ characters at level 110+ on their account should really have no problem getting a new character up in levels. You're a good player, I think you can manage.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-02
posté December 04, 2013, 20:30:15 | #31
My issue is that I multi box so the bottom of the post does not apply.

Like right now I have two accounts in the 110s trying to catch up to my 130's


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté December 04, 2013, 20:48:54 | #32

Quote (aquabeauty @ 04 December 2013 20:30) *
My issue is that I multi box so the bottom of the post does not apply.

Like right now I have two accounts in the 110s trying to catch up to my 130's

The exp curve has been adjusted and it benefits new players as well as reducing the exp needed for end game players. It promotes grouping with players your own level and fighting mobs your level.

Multi-clienting is essentially a new player for every account you own. I don't see any reason to help people in this situation (i'm one). There are enough benefits to multi-clienting already.

Aqua, you'll have to fight mobs averaging 120's to maximize the exp. I do not know the min/max for mob levels you'll be allowed to effectively fight.

Edit: Making say a third character on an account to level with a person on their first character will be interesting... You'll get three times their exp and level well past them, fast.

Will Multimen and Maka's level faster on ALT characters??


This post has been edited by Gynrei - December 04, 2013, 20:52:17.
Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-06-02
posté December 04, 2013, 20:51:02 | #33

Quote (aquabeauty @ 04 December 2013 20:30) *
My issue is that I multi box so the bottom of the post does not apply.

Like right now I have two accounts in the 110s trying to catch up to my 130's
I know, I'm just recently in the same boat too. Because I love making new characters when I feel the old ones are "complete" - my hope is that since there is no mention of group levels having an affect on total experience outcome anymore and it's just a matter how player level vs amount of mobs that we will be capable of taking a high level character and a level 30 out to some level 35 area and kill big groups of level 35-40 enemies. This combined with the x2,3,4 experience should make revelatively easy. Maybe not as nice since your high levels wont be getting any exp, but definitely still fine for the plevelling factor of it. I don't know, maybe I missed something and this wont be feasible and we'll just have to level our new characters solo or with a group of equal level players. But even if this is the case, that x3 experience should make it pretty easy.


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2008-02-09
posté December 04, 2013, 21:03:50 | #34

Quote
As a result of this change, Apprentice, Initiate and Sage sets that were all implemented to help you until the revamp of the experience system will now be modified to better fit the new Wisdom cap and other in-game Wisdom equipment.

OHHHHHH COMMON! WTF is in your mind Ankama?
DONT NERF THESE SETS! This is soooooo stupid!

The XP-Revamp sounds nice though, but don´t nerf these sets! They are pretty nice Adds at the moment... if you take any of its abilities to just put more wisdom on them this is just stupid, just because how expensive they are to build!


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-06-02
posté December 04, 2013, 21:12:18 | #35

Quote (Frittei @ 04 December 2013 21:03) *

Quote
As a result of this change, Apprentice, Initiate and Sage sets that were all implemented to help you until the revamp of the experience system will now be modified to better fit the new Wisdom cap and other in-game Wisdom equipment.

OHHHHHH COMMON! WTF is in your mind Ankama?
DONT NERF THESE SETS! This is soooooo stupid!

The XP-Revamp sounds nice though, but don´t nerf these sets! They are pretty nice Adds at the moment... if you take any of its abilities to just put more wisdom on them this is just stupid, just because how expensive they are to build!
From my understanding they're going to just tone down the wisdom a bit. As of right now you'd be going over the cap with doing any of the challenges and wearing a sage set. Seems fair to me.


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2008-02-09
posté December 04, 2013, 21:25:12 | #36
as they said you will have the choice between wis-equip and hard fights or no wis and challanges... this means.... more wisdom on nerfed sets and no good battle-abilities


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2013-09-04
posté December 04, 2013, 21:34:24 | #37
i dont like this


Dokushuuuuu * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté December 04, 2013, 21:43:50 | #38

Quote
Will Multimen and Maka's level faster on ALT characters??
Since they get % of characters XP, I don't see why not Your character will ger 3x more exp and so will multiman and maka, or at least I hope so.


posté December 04, 2013, 21:44:02 | #39
Thanks Ankama!!! I love all of these changes except for the nerf of the Apprentice, Initiate and Sage sets.


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2012-01-16
posté December 04, 2013, 22:02:59 | #40

Quote (Rokugatsu @ 04 December 2013 21:43) *

Quote
Will Multimen and Maka's level faster on ALT characters??
Since they get % of characters XP, I don't see why not Your character will ger 3x more exp and so will multiman and maka, or at least I hope so.

Yup, multimen and maka's should be benefiting but we wont see this happen this update sadly:


"Important note: this feature will not be implemented with this update, but should come with the next one.

The second highest level character of your account will now gain twice more experience..."