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Revamping the experience curve
Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2011-06-19
posté December 05, 2013, 15:46:12 | #61
I still prefer an class pair xp bonus that works like this: +20% exp bonus per same pair of any class, +35% when the party has 3 of the same class +50% if 4 of a kind, +60% if 5,+80% if 6.

if the classes on the party of 2-6 are different: +10% times the number of different classes other than the pairing bonus.

so if i have like
4 enus 1 sac and 1 eni, i get like 50+10+10+10
2 enus 2 enis 2 osas = 20+20+20+10+10+10
5 srams 1eni = + 60+10+10
3 fecas 2iops 1fog = 35+10+20+10 +10
6 different classes = +10+10+10+10+10+10
2masqs = +20

just a suggestion that doesnt need of attention


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté December 05, 2013, 16:45:48 | #62
Alright, although Pimento pretty much sumarized this in short for those that don't understand these equations, now it's time for me to step in and mention a flaw that affects me and other multi-boxers.

I like the changes to the new experience curve for individual clienting (meaning solo players that only have one account). Players that multi-box has been nerfed in terms of powerleveling their own accounts (keyword here is accounts, not characters within an account). Therefore, they are no longer benefiting from putting hours into fast-leveling their alts in separate accounts. They are now forced to increase their investment into playing this game by leveling in less-experience gained areas that no longer benefit the higher leveled alts in that multi-boxer's party.

Example: If I have 2 lv 130 characters under separate accounts, and I want to bring a lv 10 character of mine from ANOTHER account, he will no longer benefit from experience in a fight that's more beneficial to the 130's while still being more or less benefiting to the lv 10.

The new system that will be implemented in the next update allowing characters within the same account to earn Experience 2x, 3x their normal amount until reaching the max leveled character in that account, should also be implemented to accounts under the same email AND and address. That way players that are multi-boxing are still rewarded for investing more money into this game, instead of getting a penalty/ nerf.

I'm a bit concerned with this issue because it will no longer be an option to open new accounts.

-Faded


Scary Polter * Member Since 2012-02-09
posté December 05, 2013, 17:30:26 | #63

Quote (Fadedscourge @ 05 December 2013 16:45) *
That way players that are multi-boxing are still rewarded for investing more money into this game, instead of getting a penalty/ nerf.
In other words, you'd like to see p2w?



I was thinking about these changes and I think, I know the main reason for them. Same as usually - money.

I'll give you my example. I'm 105lvl and I play on 1 account, so I exp mostly solo. Usually on groups of 2-3 Bworks, Wild Gobbals, Boowolfs or something like that. I gain nice XP and I don't waste breads.

However, the average level of those mobs is way lower than mine. So after the changes, I'll probably get next to 0 XP from them. For solo exping, I'm pretty much forced to exp on Frigost (or another high level area). I have to search for single mobs, which takes time. The fights are very tough and time-consuming. I can die and if I'll win, I have to waste bazilion breads. In other words, the exping for solo player like me will be real pain in the ass after the changes.

However, what if I had multimen and/or alts? The fights would be much easier, I'd put much less money into bread, everything would be great. It's not a coincidence, that the multimen are introduced in the same patch as XP changes. It's all part of the plan of Ankama to get more money.
And don't even tell me, that I should just group with the other players. It's hard to find a group already and with the release of multimen it will be even harder.

In other words, with incoming changes Ankama is almost forcing solo players to pay for new alts and/or multimen.


This post has been edited by krowakot - December 05, 2013, 17:46:11.
Soft Crackler * Member Since 2013-05-10
posté December 05, 2013, 17:36:54 | #64
Most multi-boxers already have high lvls on each of their accounts. If you have 6 accounts, I have no idea why one them would randomly be lagging behind the others. The only reason I see is if you subscribed an odd number of accounts then decided to get one extra one later. Multi-boxers already get a slew of advantages over other players, wanting everything to be catered to your optional play-style when you already get everything easy, well it's pretty greedy.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté December 05, 2013, 17:49:29 | #65

Quote (krowakot @ 05 December 2013 17:30) *

Quote (Fadedscourge @ 05 December 2013 16:45) *
That way players that are multi-boxing are still rewarded for investing more money into this game, instead of getting a penalty/ nerf.
In other words, you'd like to see p2w?

I'm a multi-boxer and I have no problem with the new exp system. Any special treatment requested seems ridiculous to me. If Ankama were to give accounts special rules because of some arbitrary reason, I'd stop playing altogether.

Wakfu is a game and every player should have the same access and privileges as everyone else for their subscription fee.


Quote (krowakot @ 05 December 2013 17:30) *
In other words, with incoming changes Ankama is almost forcing solo players to pay for new alts and/or multimen.

No. Players should find others near their level and make groups. Ankama is giving players who prefer to solo or who can't find groups an option.

If you want to give Ankama a hard time about "feeling" forced to buy Multimen... complain about the lack of players near your level trying to complete the same content as yourself. Also, an easier way to search for them would be appreciated.


This post has been edited by Gynrei - December 05, 2013, 17:54:46.
Scary Polter * Member Since 2012-02-09
posté December 05, 2013, 18:40:51 | #66

Quote (Gynrei @ 05 December 2013 17:49) *
No. Players should find others near their level and make groups. Ankama is giving players who prefer to solo or who can't find groups an option.
Read my post carefully. Solo players who can't find a group will have new options only if they pay real money for multiman and/or for p2p on alt accounts. Otherwise, their options after the update will be even more limited.

Only 1 month passed from changes to p2p prices and they're already implementing another changes to get more money.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-06-04
posté December 05, 2013, 18:55:22 | #67
You have a good levelled Cra, and a good leveled Rogue. You get a free Astrub Knight, I'm almost certain you will be able to take on groups of solo Crackchocks or Cracktites.You're just gonna have to think a little bit more than mindlessly grinding on mobs you can easily one shot.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2012-12-22
posté December 05, 2013, 20:12:16 | #68
By the way, are enus getting a respec with this update? Since pp is getting nerfed, people can unstat treasure tracker if they don't need it. ^^

I'm about to fight a 8 mob of black wabbits in the Black Wabbit dungeon. Does this mean I'll get less xP since I only have 6 people in my group, after the revamp?

If so, you might consider excluding dungeons, or decreasing the mobs in the dungeons, since it's not our choice whether or not to fight an 8-mob.


Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2012-04-01
posté December 05, 2013, 23:14:12 | #69
How will the level 50 Krolevel set from the kroshop be affected? Since the post does not mention this set, I assume the set will stay the same and would be considered 'optional wisdom gear for those that don't want to do the challenges'.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté December 06, 2013, 03:49:14 | #70

Quote (Gynrei @ 05 December 2013 17:49) *

Quote (krowakot @ 05 December 2013 17:30) *

Quote (Fadedscourge @ 05 December 2013 16:45) *
That way players that are multi-boxing are still rewarded for investing more money into this game, instead of getting a penalty/ nerf.
In other words, you'd like to see p2w?

I'm a multi-boxer and I have no problem with the new exp system. Any special treatment requested seems ridiculous to me. If Ankama were to give accounts special rules because of some arbitrary reason, I'd stop playing altogether.

Wakfu is a game and every player should have the same access and privileges as everyone else for their subscription fee.

I'm not saying that multi-clienters should get special treatment, nor am I saying that p2w is how it should be, I would not be playing if that was the case.

My point is, If I have 3 accs, and I want to open a new acc, I will no longer have the same flexibility to powerlevel that new acc as it is currently in game. I am forced to level that character at a MUCHHHHHHHHHHH slower pace than I want to.

I never do this, but, If I need a xelor, per say. I currently have the option to level it to 110 in about 1-2 weeks, more or less. I do not play everyday, therefore I'm just giving an example. Continuing, That xelor is under the same owner, I am not benefiting from any special treatment.

With this experience revamp, I will no longer be able to do what I stated above. Any multi-boxer that have characters in accounts that are on par with each character in levels do not suffer from this. The problem lies within new accounts opened. Therefore it is a nerf.


Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2012-04-08
posté December 06, 2013, 04:20:00 | #71
Just wish I knew this was coming before I subbed my secondary for 6mo.


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2013-05-10
posté December 06, 2013, 06:37:29 | #72

Quote (Fadedscourge @ 06 December 2013 03:49) *

Quote (Gynrei @ 05 December 2013 17:49) *

Quote (krowakot @ 05 December 2013 17:30) *

Quote (Fadedscourge @ 05 December 2013 16:45) *
That way players that are multi-boxing are still rewarded for investing more money into this game, instead of getting a penalty/ nerf.
In other words, you'd like to see p2w?

I'm a multi-boxer and I have no problem with the new exp system. Any special treatment requested seems ridiculous to me. If Ankama were to give accounts special rules because of some arbitrary reason, I'd stop playing altogether.

Wakfu is a game and every player should have the same access and privileges as everyone else for their subscription fee.

I'm not saying that multi-clienters should get special treatment, nor am I saying that p2w is how it should be, I would not be playing if that was the case.

My point is, If I have 3 accs, and I want to open a new acc, I will no longer have the same flexibility to powerlevel that new acc as it is currently in game. I am forced to level that character at a MUCHHHHHHHHHHH slower pace than I want to.

I never do this, but, If I need a xelor, per say. I currently have the option to level it to 110 in about 1-2 weeks, more or less. I do not play everyday, therefore I'm just giving an example. Continuing, That xelor is under the same owner, I am not benefiting from any special treatment.

With this experience revamp, I will no longer be able to do what I stated above. Any multi-boxer that have characters in accounts that are on par with each character in levels do not suffer from this. The problem lies within new accounts opened. Therefore it is a nerf.

I think the exp revamp doesn't affect challenges? An alternative way would be to camp challenges in level-appropriate areas for your lowbie and bring a high lvl to easily ace the challenges for him. This is what I did on some of my characters and it took about a week to level them to ~100, albeit this was before the cooldowns were added and challenge xp was nerfed. But even with the cooldown at later levels you can easily jump from island to island in a rotation. This is definitively more annoying because it involves a lot of walking, but it's a possibility.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté December 06, 2013, 07:19:38 | #73
You completely missed the point :/

No one has the time to do what you just stated.


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2013-05-10
posté December 06, 2013, 07:54:17 | #74
Oh okay, so you just want the levels served to you on a silver platter then? Would you like some cookies with that?


Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2013-11-02
posté December 06, 2013, 08:24:19 | #75

Quote (Noobility @ 06 December 2013 07:54) *
Oh okay, so you just want the levels served to you on a silver platter then? Would you like some cookies with that?
Well, since you offered! :9


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté December 06, 2013, 08:26:13 | #76

Quote (Noobility @ 06 December 2013 07:54) *
Oh okay, so you just want the levels served to you on a silver platter then? Would you like some cookies with that?
No point in answering that. Obviously, you're not the type to have any type of conversation with. Therefore, I don't waste my time.

To the OP notes:

My points above stating some of the flaws still stand.


This post has been edited by Fadedscourge - December 06, 2013, 19:52:50.
Soft Crackler * Member Since 2012-02-26
posté December 06, 2013, 17:52:51 | #77

Quote (Noobility @ 06 December 2013 06:37) *
I think the exp revamp doesn't affect challenges? An alternative way would be to camp challenges in level-appropriate areas for your lowbie and bring a high lvl to easily ace the challenges for him. This is what I did on some of my characters and it took about a week to level them to ~100, albeit this was before the cooldowns were added and challenge xp was nerfed. But even with the cooldown at later levels you can easily jump from island to island in a rotation. This is definitively more annoying because it involves a lot of walking, but it's a possibility.

I might be misunderstanding you, so sorry if that's the case. In the December WIP update thread, Troyle said that environmental quests (challenges) WOULD be affected by the exp revamp.


Quote
Environmental questsExperience gain when completing an environmental quest has been adapted to the new experience curve.

For better or worse, right? Hopefully they'll still be worth our time.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté December 06, 2013, 19:57:28 | #78

Quote (Fadedscourge @ 06 December 2013 03:49) *
My point is, If I have 3 accs, and I want to open a new acc, I will no longer have the same flexibility to powerlevel that new acc as it is currently in game. I am forced to level that character at a MUCHHHHHHHHHHH slower pace than I want to.

I never do this, but, If I need a xelor, per say. I currently have the option to level it to 110 in about 1-2 weeks, more or less. I do not play everyday, therefore I'm just giving an example. Continuing, That xelor is under the same owner, I am not benefiting from any special treatment.

With this experience revamp, I will no longer be able to do what I stated above. Any multi-boxer that have characters in accounts that are on par with each character in levels do not suffer from this. The problem lies within new accounts opened. Therefore it is a nerf.

Quote
Quote
The new system that will be implemented in the next update allowing characters within the same account to earn Experience 2x, 3x their normal amount until reaching the max leveled character in that account, should also be implemented to accounts under the same email AND and address. That way players that are multi-boxing are still rewarded for investing more money into this game, instead of getting a penalty/ nerf.

But you are asking for special treatment. See the statement in bold above.

If you open a new account to play a Xelor this is no different than someone new to the Wakfu opening their first account. Unfortunately they will now level slower than you. Let me put this another way.

If a player at level 140 invites 5 different friends(accounts) to Wakfu, they will all spend the same amount of time leveling their first characters to make a party of six. What you're asking for would allow you to start 5 new accounts to make your full party and level up much faster than them. That is special treatment.

That flexibility you had before, is called one thing, power-leveling. Anyone could get power leveled before, it was simply easier for Multi-boxers because they don't have to rely on friends to PL them.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté December 07, 2013, 05:29:05 | #79

Quote (Gynrei @ 06 December 2013 19:57) *

Quote (Fadedscourge @ 06 December 2013 03:49) *
My point is, If I have 3 accs, and I want to open a new acc, I will no longer have the same flexibility to powerlevel that new acc as it is currently in game. I am forced to level that character at a MUCHHHHHHHHHHH slower pace than I want to.

I never do this, but, If I need a xelor, per say. I currently have the option to level it to 110 in about 1-2 weeks, more or less. I do not play everyday, therefore I'm just giving an example. Continuing, That xelor is under the same owner, I am not benefiting from any special treatment.

With this experience revamp, I will no longer be able to do what I stated above. Any multi-boxer that have characters in accounts that are on par with each character in levels do not suffer from this. The problem lies within new accounts opened. Therefore it is a nerf.

Quote
Quote
The new system that will be implemented in the next update allowing characters within the same account to earn Experience 2x, 3x their normal amount until reaching the max leveled character in that account, should also be implemented to accounts under the same email AND and address. That way players that are multi-boxing are still rewarded for investing more money into this game, instead of getting a penalty/ nerf.

But you are asking for special treatment. See the statement in bold above.

If you open a new account to play a Xelor this is no different than someone new to the Wakfu opening their first account. Unfortunately they will now level slower than you. Let me put this another way.

If a player at level 140 invites 5 different friends(accounts) to Wakfu, they will all spend the same amount of time leveling their first characters to make a party of six. What you're asking for would allow you to start 5 new accounts to make your full party and level up much faster than them. That is special treatment.

That flexibility you had before, is called one thing, power-leveling. Anyone could get power leveled before, it was simply easier for Multi-boxers because they don't have to rely on friends to PL them.
The words "special treatment" is not the word to use in this case. I do not see this as special treatment. You're making it sound like there is a huge ass chocolate cake at the end of a 100km marathon race waiting at the finish line.

That lv 140's friends are playing the game for the first time, therefore they need to experience the entire Wakfu content themselves, the same way I did when I first started. I already experienced the content, therefore I do not need to go through all the areas again with a new account of mine. I need to "catch up" with the rest of my characters with ease (this is not p2w).

Let's give an example with another game, WoW. If you have a higher leveled character in WoW, you have the option of buying BoA items that provide bonus experience to any new alt you may want to create. Those BoA items can be traded to any of your characters in different accounts under the same email.

Same concept in this game, your accounts should have the same flexibility to catching up with all your other higher level characters as you do not need to go through lower level content. What benefit will you get out of going through lower level content? absolutely nothing.

Another example, Let's say one of YOUR acc's get hacked and there is no way to get it back (just an example). Will you enjoy opening a new account, and leveling up a new character at a shortened progression rate in content that you're not enjoying, nor benefiting from them?


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté December 07, 2013, 07:28:08 | #80
If i choose to create a new account I'll have to catch up to my other characters. Yes it would be slower and yes it wouldn't be as much fun. I do agree that Wakfu's alt exp and WoW's option look similar. The difference for me is how they effect the game and fair play.

In Wakfu's current state, anything a multi-boxer can do, an organized team of 6 different people can do just as well. This is why i think multi-boxing is not p2w.

If we go with your suggestion, the multi-boxer is getting a significant exp advantage over the other 6 person team.