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Class Revamp - Feca
posté December 21, 2013, 08:42:55 | #101
Great job Sabi! Please forward my suggestion for "Peace Armor". I think peace armor SHOULD be able to be cast on the feca itself. To balance this make it have a 6-11 turn cool down depending on the level of peace armor.

The cool down will prevent the spell from being abused or spammed, yet make it still useful for the feca itself.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté December 21, 2013, 11:35:16 | #102
I have spotted with my lil' eye something that is awsome:

Quote (Sabi @ 20 December 2013 21:40) *
We may revamp the Sadida actually more than the Feca in the future.

THAT made my day.

As for peace armor: make it reduce dmg by half and make the user deal half of dmg. Make it possible to apply it to feca too. Maybe even to enemies. Limit it to max 1 peace armor at time.
The thing that change with each level should be cost and range, to make it equally effective even if not leveled.

This way this spell will be still useful for the feca itself. There should be no spells in game that work only in team (yes you should also modify spells such as Mummification of xelor or Sacrifice of sacrier to still have some use for the class itself when it play solo).

The concept of peace armor should be to be "harmless" or "not want to fight" so you will receive less dmg but you will also deal less dmg. It would not reduce the heal % and would not reduce the dmg% from stats but the damage received by monsters would be reduced when dmg spell is cast on them. That's how i would like to see this work.

Belligerence - it could also make enemy immune to be locked (so that the AI might consider leaving ally in its lock zone and run to feca), its just a random idea that you may consider. Or that it can be locked only by feca.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - December 21, 2013, 11:35:42.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté December 21, 2013, 15:34:10 | #103

Quote (SeriousBelly @ 21 December 2013 06:39) *
Thanks Sabi and Grou!!! I'd prefer if there was a way for fire spells to boost fecas lock since not many fire sets have lock.

And Sabi, what do you mean by " The AI reflexes will stay the same than with a normal target, but with a big loss of resistance (given by the spell)." for Belligerence?

I assume it's referring to when monsters go after targets with low resistance. Whatever AI decisions the monster under Belligerence makes are done considering the Feca is the lowest res target. I hope that makes sense.

So a monster will still AoE others if they are close together and use a single target one per person attack on the FEca as well as others nearby.


Not so Hairy Moon * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté December 21, 2013, 16:52:38 | #104
Thanks for answering our questions sabi and grou!
Much appreciated ^^

I'm still wondering how the movement of glyphs will happen :p
For example, if I have two Fecastopheles glyphs out, will they both be moved if I use Crashing wave? and if they will, will they both activate?

Going on from that, It was also mentioned that glyphs could be placed on top of each other, will future glyphs be able to stack effects like in the good old days? I want all the ap from glyphs!

Also, will some spells have alternative effects when cast on allies? The drip spell to move the fecammer glyph does damage in the process if a player is targeted, weakening the combo potential. Unless I've read something wrong, I think no damage when cast on allies is in order :p

one last thing, will glyphs and armours receive a damage bonus from CMC damage?


This post has been edited by Soundtrack8 - December 22, 2013, 05:47:20.
posté December 22, 2013, 02:36:23 | #105
Nice xD


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2011-10-02
posté December 22, 2013, 04:36:42 | #106
Easiest way to make Peace Armor not be OP is put a limit on it. Make it so you can only get peace armored once per battle.


Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2012-08-13
posté December 22, 2013, 05:27:46 | #107

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 21 December 2013 11:35) *
I have spotted with my lil' eye something that is awsome:

Quote (Sabi @ 20 December 2013 21:40) *
We may revamp the Sadida actually more than the Feca in the future.

THAT made my day.

As for peace armor: make it reduce dmg by half and make the user deal half of dmg. Make it possible to apply it to feca too. Maybe even to enemies. Limit it to max 1 peace armor at time.
The thing that change with each level should be cost and range, to make it equally effective even if not leveled.

This way this spell will be still useful for the feca itself. There should be no spells in game that work only in team (yes you should also modify spells such as Mummification of xelor or Sacrifice of sacrier to still have some use for the class itself when it play solo).

The concept of peace armor should be to be "harmless" or "not want to fight" so you will receive less dmg but you will also deal less dmg. It would not reduce the heal % and would not reduce the dmg% from stats but the damage received by monsters would be reduced when dmg spell is cast on them. That's how i would like to see this work.

Belligerence - it could also make enemy immune to be locked (so that the AI might consider leaving ally in its lock zone and run to feca), its just a random idea that you may consider. Or that it can be locked only by feca.

I don't see the point in that kind of peace armor. All it does it make a fight last longer. I could see a use in negating a specific boss' special attack that you know is coming. Last turn of Vampyro, Milkar s fury attack etc. But other than that i'd see no point. And if that's the purpose then i'd rather have Truce.


Not so Hairy Moon * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté December 22, 2013, 05:45:03 | #108

Quote (Cake-i-nator @ 22 December 2013 05:27) *
I don't see the point in that kind of peace armor. All it does it make a fight last longer. I could see a use in negating a specific boss' special attack that you know is coming. Last turn of Vampyro, Milkar s fury attack etc. But other than that i'd see no point. And if that's the purpose then i'd rather have Truce.
Hm, I think depending how it works, it could be really interesting. It could hugely benefit some classes like sac, or even summoning classes like sadi or osa if their summons aren't also effected. Maybe even bomb rogues could benefit? If it were possible to apply to the feca aswell, he could run out, taunt the enemies and spend the next few turns using armours / glyphs.


posté December 22, 2013, 09:50:40 | #109
Peace armor NEEDS to be castable on the Feca. Give it a cooldown to balance it, not a needless restriction.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté December 22, 2013, 12:06:55 | #110

Quote (Soundtrack8 @ 22 December 2013 05:45) *

Quote (Cake-i-nator @ 22 December 2013 05:27) *
I don't see the point in that kind of peace armor. All it does it make a fight last longer. I could see a use in negating a specific boss' special attack that you know is coming. Last turn of Vampyro, Milkar s fury attack etc. But other than that i'd see no point. And if that's the purpose then i'd rather have Truce.
Hm, I think depending how it works, it could be really interesting. It could hugely benefit some classes like sac, or even summoning classes like sadi or osa if their summons aren't also effected. Maybe even bomb rogues could benefit? If it were possible to apply to the feca aswell, he could run out, taunt the enemies and spend the next few turns using armours / glyphs.
Exactly, it would let your healer take less dmg while doing 100% of their heals in that turn or will let your sadida summon more dolls, aka set up, buy time for lone sadida to reach higher level or for feca itself to set up new glyphs/reposition them or self while not focusing on dealing dmg. It would be situational but useful skill, and cast on sacrier who used coagulation will make it receive even less (close to nothing) damage, wich should be useful in UB, while giving target full immunity would make UB (for example Dragon Pig) switch target to something that they can hit, so it would be not good to cast it on tank then, wich is why i would rather see it as halved dmg received and halved dmg given. It could also stabilize target of Peace Armor and/or make it unable to get locked, maybe even with MP bonus (or Transcendance of Enripsa could do that).


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - December 22, 2013, 12:07:52.
Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2013-02-26
posté December 22, 2013, 12:14:31 | #111
While everyone else talks about Peace Armor, I'm taking a closer look at the water branch, since I plan on being a support type Feca if I like the skills enough. And I still have to say it seems redundant having two spells that have effects which give AP. Especially since I would probably almost always use the one with a lower AP cost. The other would go unused in most situations and therefore be useless to me.

I feel like the water branch has always been lacking compared to the other two branches but I understand it must be hard to come up with support type spells that aren't heals. Not that I'm against heals, but it seems to me that's not what the team wants for the Feca and I respect that.

I'd also like to note that the "Repelling Armor" activated by the Drip spell, Actually looked better to me in the PDF we were shown back in January, when the effect of Repelling Armor was to have a chance of pushing enemies away from the wearer, rather than moving the wearer away from the Feca. I'm not really sure how moving away from the Feca could be useful. It seems situational at best.

I could just be totally wrong about all this, but I wanted to give my opinion anyway, and especially wanted to speak out for the branch I want to play since feedback is encouraged. Please forgive me if anything I say is ignorant. ;A;


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté December 22, 2013, 15:34:36 | #112
How about giving feca a water glyph that makes targets in it unable to get locked (something that Skale can do but in form of glyph)? I mean - there are two +AP glyphs for no reason, and we don't need healing glyph but ability to help allies so that they wont get locked would be nice too.


Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2011-11-11
posté December 22, 2013, 23:18:44 | #113
Peace Armor should not be castable on Feca, what's the point of having a protector that focuses on protecting itself, especially since it would make the feca unable to lock or be locked, and no need for its resists, in which case the effect cancels out half of the specialties of the Feca. So no point in having it be self castable anyway.

If it was self castable, then they would also apply a similar restriction as on Trans, probably making it to where it could only be used 1/fight. Which I'm assuming most of you don't want.

Truce I think would be a good substitute, or making the target of Peace Armor get the Feca's resists. This would also solve the problem of 2 Fecas casting it on each other (since it would likely not help them out too much), and not be complete invulnerability for 6 turns.
The only other option I can think of would be if you could make it to where you can only cast Peace Armor 1/target over the course of the entire fight.

Also, the Avalanche Glyph, according to the pdf, is supposed to remove AP, not give AP. I think it's just a typo from translating.


This post has been edited by smallz117 - December 22, 2013, 23:19:39.
posté December 23, 2013, 01:03:53 | #114
Of course peace armor should be able to be castable on the FECA. What's the point of having a protector that can't protect itself? Every time wakfu tries too hard to differ from tried and true discoveries from dofus it produces a mess.

Also it doesnt need to be 1 cast per fight. It's only 1 cast per fight because enis can FREAKING HEAL themselves. Fecas can't so putting an eni restriction on fecas doesn't make sense. A 6-11 turn cooldown + wakfu cost is plenty enough to prevent abuse.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté December 23, 2013, 01:47:33 | #115

Quote (sockstoyourdoor @ 23 December 2013 01:03) *
Of course peace armor should be able to be castable on the FECA. What's the point of having a protector that can't protect itself? Every time wakfu tries too hard to differ from tried and true discoveries from dofus it produces a mess.

Also it doesnt need to be 1 cast per fight. It's only 1 cast per fight because enis can FREAKING HEAL themselves. Fecas can't so putting an eni restriction on fecas doesn't make sense. A 6-11 turn cooldown + wakfu cost is plenty enough to prevent abuse.
As far as i remember the Wakfu concept is to avoid such things as "cooldowns".

1 use per turn is not really a cooldown because you can use that spell every turn. Though there are monsters that have their spells limited with cooldowns, but those are monsters and they had to do that for the AI sake (to not make monster use only 1 spell when it could use other one for the same cost for example).

I agree that Feca should be able to cast Peace Armor on themself. Every spell that work only on allies should be revamped as its against the concept of building up for solo gameplay or 1vs1 pvp. Why would you pick specilaity that will be useless when you solo?

It is the reason why i don't like Mummification of Xelor. I love ressurecting allies but this spell feels like a waste of points for 1 vs 1 pvp and i'd love to see that changed too. Eniraser can at least be used by Eni to cure negative effects - its not much but always something that Eniripsa can use even in solo gameplay.

Following this i don't want any more spells that are "on allies only" aka "team only spells". Therefore Peace Armor should be castable on feca itself too.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2012-02-16
posté December 23, 2013, 01:55:32 | #116
Really feca is supposed to rival damage soem other claases when he has one damage buff skill and one damage based spell even decided to nuke down the only other damage spell a feca possibly had man i begged for yall not to ruin my only class i likled thanks for the fail.


Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2011-11-11
posté December 23, 2013, 03:10:53 | #117

Quote (sockstoyourdoor @ 23 December 2013 01:03) *
Of course peace armor should be able to be castable on the FECA. What's the point of having a protector that can't protect itself? Every time wakfu tries too hard to differ from tried and true discoveries from dofus it produces a mess.

Also it doesnt need to be 1 cast per fight. It's only 1 cast per fight because enis can FREAKING HEAL themselves. Fecas can't so putting an eni restriction on fecas doesn't make sense. A 6-11 turn cooldown + wakfu cost is plenty enough to prevent abuse.
You do realize balance isn't based on what the individual class can do, but also what it can do in a group with others? That's why so many people believe Peace Armor is so powerful already.

Also, I'm fairly certain the Feca can protect itself pretty well without Peace Armor with a build you would typically see on a protector giving it 400+% resists before a fight along with 100block. Also, in a group, I'm fairly certain you can have an Eni heal a Feca, I'm not sure though, maybe I'm wrong about that.


This post has been edited by smallz117 - December 23, 2013, 03:13:45.
Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2013-07-31
posté December 23, 2013, 06:43:37 | #118
Somebody can translate this in italian?


posté December 23, 2013, 10:09:28 | #119
Balancing characters based on group play is ridiculous. Characters are based on PVP or PVE standards, and there is nothing "over powered" about FECAs being able to cast peace armor on themselves. It works perfectly on dofus and it will work perfectly on wakfu, especially with how difficult the mobs are in wakfu.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-12-03
posté December 23, 2013, 11:22:49 | #120

Quote (sockstoyourdoor @ 23 December 2013 10:09) *
Balancing characters based on group play is ridiculous. Characters are based on PVP or PVE standards, and there is nothing "over powered" about FECAs being able to cast peace armor on themselves. It works perfectly on dofus and it will work perfectly on wakfu, especially with how difficult the mobs are in wakfu.
Well, going off of that, if you really want the Feca's to be able to be invulnerable for 6 turns in a row and still be able to attack, I may not do much PvP but even a chile can see that that is overpowered.

As much as you may not like it, Wakfu is a group game. I solo a lot, but even I can acknowledge that. Many classes have abilities that work only around group play, thus the game is already being balanced for group play. Now with Sidekicks available to everyone (one even given for free in game), group play is even easier and you can still "solo" with your new controllable friends.


- Kat