Back to forum.wakfu.com

No flash

Class Revamp - Feca
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté December 23, 2013, 15:25:09 | #121

Quote (sockstoyourdoor @ 23 December 2013 10:09) *
Balancing characters based on group play is ridiculous. Characters are based on PVP or PVE standards, and there is nothing "over powered" about FECAs being able to cast peace armor on themselves. It works perfectly on dofus and it will work perfectly on wakfu, especially with how difficult the mobs are in wakfu.

You don't want characters balanced on group play, but you want them balanced on PvP and PvE... excuse me?? These are all predominantly group activities. Unless you can solo some UB's and end game dungeons you need group play. Guild PvP will eventually be groups of 6v6, not 1v1. You MUST account for everything a class can do and balance accordingly.

Support classes are weaker alone and stronger in large groups. You shouldn't have both. If a support class was strong alone it would be ridiculously strong in group play.

I assume you just don't want certain skills to be unusable when a class is solo. Like Carnival doesn't help a Mask solo and Stasis Flux doesn't help a Fogger. But it doesn't matter, especially with MM. Every class should be able to use it's support skills in almost every fight now.


This post has been edited by Gynrei - December 23, 2013, 15:26:35.
Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-01-09
posté December 23, 2013, 19:09:33 | #122
The damage dealing branch will be able to compete with all the available bonuses of the other damage dealing oriented classes.

I might have missed it but from what I can tell inversion seems to be the only option as a Special spell/passive that supports that. Am i missing something?


posté December 23, 2013, 22:49:48 | #123
Feca's aren't a support class. They are as much as a "support class" as an iop.

Feca's are simply the opposite of iops. Wakfu botched fecas big time because they tried to expand on the lore and give them 3 elemental branches and had no idea what they wanted them do...thus where we are now: a mediocre support class that's only used by multi-boxers. This update is suppose to fix that and bring fecas back to the roots and ignore the failed experiments of the past. If you want "pure support" toss the spell into the water branch where all the other flimsy support spells are and let the multi-boxers use them. If you want a spell to take up a precious "specialty spot" like peace armor then make it useful to the feca it self.

It doesn't even make sense that the master of shields would not be able to cast a shield on it self ffs. There are plenty of ways to prevent the feca from casting the spell on himself multiple times in a row. Cool down of 6-11 like on dofus, 1 cast per fight, higher wakfu cost etc. If the devs can't get behind one of the ideas above, then simply trash the spell all together for the sake of "group play". For it's better not to have a spell at all, than have a crappy spell.

Replace it with fraction or truce if you're so bloody worried about introducing a cool down. BTW shadow the multi-men has a cool down ...so wakfu is introducing them now.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-12-03
posté December 23, 2013, 23:49:35 | #124

Quote (sockstoyourdoor @ 23 December 2013 22:49) *
Feca's aren't a support class. They are as much as a "support class" as an iop.

Feca's are simply the opposite of iops.

Hmm, so if they're the opposite of Iops, they should be pure range and never deal damage, thus a ranged support class....


Quote
Wakfu botched fecas big time because they tried to expand on the lore and give them 3 elemental branches and had no idea what they wanted them do...thus where we are now: a mediocre support class that's only used by multi-boxers.

I'm sorry, but I know quite a handful of people who play Feca and only own one account. Why would only multiboxers enjoy the Feca's?


Quote
This update is suppose to fix that and bring fecas back to the roots and ignore the failed experiments of the past. If you want "pure support" toss the spell into the water branch where all the other flimsy support spells are and let the multi-boxers use them. If you want a spell to take up a precious "specialty spot" like peace armor then make it useful to the feca it self.


So you're forcing your hopes and dreams on all of us? Since when did they say they were returning Feca's "to their roots"? This is a REVAMP, not a RESET. Thus meaning change.


Quote
It doesn't even make sense that the master of shields would not be able to cast a shield on it self ffs. There are plenty of ways to prevent the feca from casting the spell on himself multiple times in a row. Cool down of 6-11 like on dofus, 1 cast per fight, higher wakfu cost etc. If the devs can't get behind one of the ideas above, then simply trash the spell all together for the sake of "group play". For it's better not to have a spell at all, than have a crappy spell.

Well, for one, "Master of Shields"? No were does it say they are the Masters. Go look at their character description. Even the title, Feca's Shield: Protector. They are protectors, you know, tanks. First line in their description is "Fecas have always been Protectors." Protectors protect OTHERS. Placing a shield on oneself is defending oneself, not protecting another. Similar, but not the same. That and as other's and Ankama have said, no cooldowns on Character Classes, no matter what happened in Dofus, this is not Dofus. Just because you cannot find someone to "group play" with, doesn't mean there shouldn't be "group play" spells. As mentioned by Gynrei above, Foggers, and Masqs have "group play" only spells (as I'm sure there are a couple other classes out there that have them too). So what's wrong with the Feca, who is a "Protector", having one?


Quote
Replace it with fraction or truce if you're so bloody worried about introducing a cool down. BTW shadow the multi-men has a cool down ...so wakfu is introducing them now.

No, you are wrong, monsters have had Turn Limits, or Cool Downs already. So on Shadow, it is now new. That and Shadow is a Sidekick, not a Character Class, thus follows a different set of rules. His comparison is thus invalid in your argument, as still no Character Classes have cooldowns in Wakfu as Ankama said there won't.



- Kat


posté December 24, 2013, 02:15:32 | #125
Giving them a shield spell that they can't cast on themselves makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. A shield that can only be cast on allies is Sacrier logic. FECAS ARE NOT SACRERS!!

They are fighters, who focus on defense. Thus the opposite of iops who are fighters who focus on offense. They are not support and they have always been able to cast their spells on themselves FYI. They are protectors of sheep and treasures and yes they are the masters of shields.

Not only are they called Feca's Shield but in wakfu they even have their shield device directly on their arm. Plus watch wakfu the anime, all the FECAS there have HUGE shields and fight with them.


Furthermore Foggers and Masks aren't one of the 12 original classes. They aren't masters of anything. Unlike the Cra, Iop, Eni, Feca, Eca etc.

It's downright insulting to give fecas a shield they can't use on themselves when that's the whole point of their existence. It will just be another slap in face to Fecas from the devs who prefer to focus on their beloved Iops and Cras while leaving us to wait in the mud for nearly 2 years.


Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2011-11-11
posté December 24, 2013, 03:37:36 | #126

Quote (sockstoyourdoor @ 24 December 2013 02:15) *
Furthermore Foggers and Masks aren't one of the 12 original classes. They aren't masters of anything. Unlike the Cra, Iop, Eni, Feca, Eca etc.

It's downright insulting to give fecas a shield they can't use on themselves when that's the whole point of their existence. It will just be another slap in face to Fecas from the devs who prefer to focus on their beloved Iops and Cras while leaving us to wait in the mud for nearly 2 years.
Which came first? The Fogger and Masq, or the Feca Revamp? :3c Also, dont forget how Xelor's Mummification is only team viable, along with both Sacrier's Sacrifice AND Life Transfer, oh, and we cant forget Eniripsa's Regen, or Iop's Show Off.

Also, the spell is worthless for a Protector-based Feca. Do you know why?
Well, think about this. The spell is supposedly just like Trans except for you can attack with Peace Armor, and you dont get the heal you get from Trans. This means you get all the other effects that you would have when Trans. This includes the fact that you cannot lock or be locked. So what's the point of applying it to yourself when in doing so you open up all of your allies for attacks? That doesn't sounds very 'protector' to me.


This post has been edited by smallz117 - December 24, 2013, 03:42:48.
posté December 24, 2013, 06:53:22 | #127
Mummification is a terrible spell IMHO smallz. I dislike it greatly too, as do many xelors.

Mummification used to be such an awesome spell.


Furthermore Iops showoff and eni's regain helps the character themselves. Sacreirs have many spells that do nothing for them because that's the point of their class. They sacrifice themselves for their teams. Once again FECAS aren't SACRIERS. We don't have a billion HP...

We also have a taunt spell...


Not so Hairy Moon * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté December 24, 2013, 15:26:38 | #128
Just a suggestion in terms of limiting the feca x feca peace armour domination, maybe when peace armour is applied, it could also apply another state [name pending]. This state would stop the player from using peace armour, or receive another peace armour for x amount of turns. The I think the state could last for 2-6 turns, depending on the the level of the spell / what is regarded as balanced.

It would also solve the issue some of the others have above regarding spell cooldowns. While you could in theory continue to cast peace armour every turn for 6 turns, it couldn't be placed on the same character until the second state wears down.

Looking forward to these changes!


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté December 24, 2013, 22:29:59 | #129

Quote (sockstoyourdoor @ 24 December 2013 06:53) *
Mummification is a terrible spell IMHO smallz. I dislike it greatly too, as do many xelors.

Mummification used to be such an awesome spell.

Mummification is one the best spells in a Xelor's arsenal. Granted if you have an Eni it's not as important, but don't underestimate it.


Short Strich * Member Since 2006-03-18
posté December 25, 2013, 00:25:24 | #130
i really hope this simplifies the feca more. I have spells lvld all over the place each spell having multiple outcomes, gets confusing. Feca needs to be more straight forward. just make it a little easier to chose 1 or 2 branch elements without the hassle of remembering so much. Id rather see them as a path you chose, shield master, or dmg dealer. not an all in one confusing mess.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté December 25, 2013, 00:53:45 | #131

Quote (Gynrei @ 24 December 2013 22:29) *

Quote (sockstoyourdoor @ 24 December 2013 06:53) *
Mummification is a terrible spell IMHO smallz. I dislike it greatly too, as do many xelors.

Mummification used to be such an awesome spell.

Mummification is one the best spells in a Xelor's arsenal. Granted if you have an Eni it's not as important, but don't underestimate it.
Its still useless for soloing. They could add some effect when xelor cast it on Dial for example (make dial not break by itself when xelor not end turn on it as example) - that added to current effect would make it both useful as solo and helpful if ally get KO'ed.


Spoiler: (highlight to show)
EDIT: guess it got a little derailed to xelor/sacrier topic, yet nobody complain. Funny if i throw sadida name here there would be rage against my post. So much hate to sadida, people?

Oh nvm i said nothing.
 


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - December 25, 2013, 00:55:01.
Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2011-11-11
posté December 25, 2013, 07:44:06 | #132

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 25 December 2013 00:53) *

Quote (Gynrei @ 24 December 2013 22:29) *

Quote (sockstoyourdoor @ 24 December 2013 06:53) *
Mummification is a terrible spell IMHO smallz. I dislike it greatly too, as do many xelors.

Mummification used to be such an awesome spell.

Mummification is one the best spells in a Xelor's arsenal. Granted if you have an Eni it's not as important, but don't underestimate it.
Its still useless for soloing. They could add some effect when xelor cast it on Dial for example (make dial not break by itself when xelor not end turn on it as example) - that added to current effect would make it both useful as solo and helpful if ally get KO'ed.


Spoiler: (highlight to show)
EDIT: guess it got a little derailed to xelor/sacrier topic, yet nobody complain. Funny if i throw sadida name here there would be rage against my post. So much hate to sadida, people?

Oh nvm i said nothing.
Because no one complains nearly as much about sacriers or xelors.

People get tired of hearing 'Why not Sadidas?' when its on so many posts.

Also, if this was a game based around soloing, then I would feel it is right to complain about those spells. Sure they are useless if you are solo, but they are typically powerful spells, and the focus of Wakfu is group play, so I feel that not only are the spells fine, but they also cement that feeling of being focused on working with others.


This post has been edited by smallz117 - December 25, 2013, 07:48:42.
posté December 25, 2013, 09:01:20 | #133
Those spells suck. Their dofus versions are 10x better. No surprise dofus has a 10x larger population too...


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté December 25, 2013, 11:58:37 | #134
@smallz

The spells could be great for group play but they should not remain in the dusty corner when you are leveling up solo.

Also i feel that it sucks a bit to have spell that is useful only when ally DIE. Its like you wish it will die so that you may finally test this skill. Kinda against the idea of team play to make allies die on purpose for that.

My point remains the same: no spell should be for group gameplay exlusively. If there is spell that protect ally only then it should have another effect when you cast it on self. If its spell that ressurect ally then it should have also another effect such as withdrawing negative states but could be anything else of the class theme - basically something that you can use with ALIVE allies.

EDIT:

I would like to see armors put on allies to be in form of a "bubble sphere" - it would be invisible aura that every 3 seconds would show the "shine" (of different colour depending on armor element) in the shape of sphere. That shining would show the round edges of some invisible object around character. Though that would be awkward to see on big monsters (such as trools) as it would propably not cover their bodies or else aura would be too big on normal size characters... i suppose it would be difficult to make aura size different depending on the target size...

In beta days there used to be orange aura on Three Piestes dungeon feca but it was simply orange circle with lowered opacity and this is not the effect i am talking about. Though its a base for it.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - December 25, 2013, 12:37:31.
Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2011-11-11
posté December 25, 2013, 16:25:23 | #135

Quote (sockstoyourdoor @ 25 December 2013 09:01) *
Those spells suck. Their dofus versions are 10x better. No surprise dofus has a 10x larger population too...
Wow, congrats, you just said Sacirfice and Life Transfer suck. Merry Christmas to you, too.

*claps lazily*


This post has been edited by smallz117 - December 25, 2013, 16:32:04.
The Sinister Six * Member Since 2012-02-09
posté December 25, 2013, 17:44:45 | #136
I bet you played a Counter Feca somewhere along the line, Sock.


Mister Winter Fashion Victim 2012 * Member Since 2012-12-20
posté December 25, 2013, 20:23:17 | #137

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 25 December 2013 00:53) *
Its still useless for soloing. They could add some effect when xelor cast it on Dial for example (make dial not break by itself when xelor not end turn on it as example) - that added to current effect would make it both useful as solo and helpful if ally get KO'ed.

I actually agree with this. The alternative function idea. I think a lot of spells could gain some great extra functions when used on self instead of allies to bolster solo play. Here's an example with the aforementioned Mummification.

Cost (at max):
- On a downed ally 3 AP.
- On self or an alive ally: half current AP (to the target), all MP (to the target), 1 WP (from the Xelor).
Conditions:
- If on self, cannot have spent MP yet.
- Target is not in the Unraveled state.
- Target is not in the Mummified state.
- Target is not in the Run-Down state.
Effect:
- On a downed ally resurrects the target with a percentage of the Xelor's current HP (100% at max, as it is now). Target loses 33% of their current HP a turn, for three turns. If the caster dies, the mummified player also dies.
- On an alive ally or self, places the target in the Mummified state. State halves the target's current AP and removes all of their MP. On the next turn, target goes under the Unraveled state which preserves their max AP from their previous turn. Any extraneous AP sources will stick. Accelerator state is debuffed from the target immediately on cast. An Unraveled target also gains up to 50% additional damage on their following turn. If the caster of Mummification dies, any targets he or she placed under the Mummified state that turn will lose the state as well as 50% of their current HP.

Example of use: A 12 AP Xelor receives Rollback and Timekeeper to have 18 AP on their following turn. On this particular upcoming turn, they have nothing to hit, and so they use Mummification on their self, bringing them to 9 AP and 0 MP. With the remaining 9 AP, they use Timekeeper to store 3 AP and trigger Rollback three times with the remaining 6 AP (you can't trigger Rollback with Mummification in this way). The following turn, they now have 24 AP thanks the preserved max AP from the previous turn, Rollback, and the stored AP. They can also Devotion up to 26 AP (they couldn't the last turn since Mummification took all their MP away). Compared to two turns without Mummification, the Xelor has actually lost 5 AP (9 AP + 26 AP vs. 20 AP + 20 AP) however has a much harder hitting second turn. It's essentially a variation of Fusillade that has a greater impact the better you are at giving AP.

Just an idea. A lot of spells can use alternative functions. Even if situational, it's better than having an obsolete function in some scenarios. Like how Symbiosa should allow the Osamodas to untransform, so that Osamodas can freely go between dragon and summoner mode.

All-in-all though, I'm extremely impressed by the Feca specialties. Hard to be well-rounded when any niche of Feca will benefit from so many of the specialties.

• Mango


This post has been edited by Brokonaut - December 25, 2013, 20:23:47.
Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté December 25, 2013, 23:34:19 | #138
I'M SAW FIRST TIME

When Ankama, make/made sense good class :]

Becasue ? Becasue ?
All Special Active / Passive spell is good ... now i'm dont know what choose :]
and spell is too good...


other class "need" revamp specials spells ...

but i'm think "Glyph or Armor" no "need" lvls ?
becasue, i'm put 2 armor/glyph (me and ally) and next turn use "2MP" for one spell and
0lvl "Glyph or Armor" give me back 3AP 1MP... so in next turn i have 9AP 2MP (4MP - 2MP)
and next Volcano (cost 2AP) im got 9-2+3 = 10AP and 3MP ... cost one turn... and i put armor/glyph :]

i think must change system this... lvl2 (max) for range need "Glyph or Armor" but
if you remove (back recost) so must give other "bonus" example +charges


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-10-31
posté December 27, 2013, 06:15:42 | #139
What about making a Peace Glyph which revives a K.O.ed ally?


Not so Hairy Moon * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté December 27, 2013, 08:25:33 | #140

Quote (SeriousBelly @ 27 December 2013 06:15) *
What about making a Peace Glyph which revives a K.O.ed ally?
I really like the idea of using peace armour as a glyph aswell!
Not quite sure how the revive would work though..
Maybe it could be similar to the current peace armour and multiply resistance?? Multiplying by 1.2.. or would that be too much :l
pfft I dont know - getting excited, favourite revamp so far ;D