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Kamas in WAKFU
posté December 21, 2012, 11:40:07 | #41
yea u should learn how free market works before destroy economy by helping people get more kamas
if it will be easter to get it, prices will go up
i dont see any good point of making this change and Nillii explained this well
there will be always Huge difference between rich and poor.
high taxes destroy economy, printing money create huge inflation :]
just dont interfere


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2011-03-26
posté December 21, 2012, 12:08:05 | #42

Quote (Nillii @ 21 December 2012 08:35) *
5. I like that 1 kama means a lot. It is different from other games. If it is too hard for a new player to get 1 kama, don't inflate the entire economy but just simply give them 10 kamas together with Jonk's bag and they will have a decent starter pack right there. An extra introduction of 10 kamas per character will not inflate the economy much, but all your other ideas would.

This is a bad idea, because it can and will be abused. Create Character, trade 10 Kamas to existing charachter, delete charachter ...

I agree with all your other points though.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2011-03-30
posté December 21, 2012, 12:11:01 | #43
Does this mean astrubian bosses will give kamas too?


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2011-07-06
posté December 21, 2012, 12:28:19 | #44

Quote (YukikoArtai @ 21 December 2012 12:08) *

Quote (Nillii @ 21 December 2012 08:35) *
5. I like that 1 kama means a lot. It is different from other games. If it is too hard for a new player to get 1 kama, don't inflate the entire economy but just simply give them 10 kamas together with Jonk's bag and they will have a decent starter pack right there. An extra introduction of 10 kamas per character will not inflate the economy much, but all your other ideas would.

This is a bad idea, because it can and will be abused. Create Character, trade 10 Kamas to existing charachter, delete charachter ...

I agree with all your other points though.

Really? I can't believe someone would actually waste their time creating new chars only to get 10 kamas oO It's just too much... same thing when u create chars, lvl up to 35 and do dngs to get gems... it would be better if u just mined for that amount of time.


Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté December 21, 2012, 13:43:11 | #45
People, when Ankama decides to give 1 Kama the worth of 1/10th of a Kama and they multiply your kama with the number 10, NOTHING CHANGES.
REALLY: NOTHING.
Prices will multiply with 10, and your kama income and savings will multiply with 10!

There is one positive factor: We can finally buy things that are not worth 1 Kama!
I mean, it is a shame that one part of the adventurer set costs the same amount of Kama as one unspecific level 25-40 item!

It doesn't make sense at all and Ankama only adds a better way to trade with the new Kama System.
That Bosses drop Kama isn't a bad thing either, since the amount is not decided yet.

I think it should just be a little: (Calculating with the new system (x10):
If my group destroys the Gobbal King, everyone of my group should gain 20-30 Kama.

This way, we won't be able to "farm" Kama, since it takes long enough to beat that dungeon, but it rewards the players as well. I don't see a problem with it.

Sure, this adds to the inflation, but not that much.
But I don't need this feature.

But again, people: X10 Kama doesn't change anything, the prices will just be better and the trade will start to flow.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2010-05-20
posté December 21, 2012, 14:03:27 | #46
Finally a way to get some kamas for the f2p


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2011-06-10
posté December 21, 2012, 14:25:03 | #47
i agree.....its about time it got delt with


Short Strich * Member Since 2010-09-30
posté December 21, 2012, 14:59:21 | #48
The point of this article is to figure out how much time will be economized with kama crafting after the implement. Don't worry players, your kamas will be saved and still "lazy people" will be with less money than you!


Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2009-11-13
posté December 21, 2012, 15:26:26 | #49
boss drop, no way! This will make a great damage to the economy.
with rare drops of the bosses is enough reward.

the increase in the recipes is a good idea, because the level of the character does not matter, Making the adquisition system of kamas more equitable for everyone

A better idea will be that the other professions (different to mining) get reevaluate.

Pd: sorry, I'm from the wakfu/hispania comunity. i don't speak english.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-04-08
posté December 21, 2012, 16:00:24 | #50

Quote (Nillii @ 21 December 2012 08:35) *
Haven't read any replies to this devblog, so this might have already been said.

1. The gap between rich and poor players will not improve by letting bosses drop kamas. It is the rich players who kill bosses often, they get the rare boss drops, and they sell the rare boss drops, and that is why they are rich in the first place.

2. By introducing more kamas into the economy, inflation will occur. The fact that every single player can create brand new kamas without removing anything from the economy means that the game will always suffer inflation, but adding even more kamas by letting the bosses drop them will only make the matters worse.

3. The issue with items being considered unsellable because they are too common would not be solved by inflating the economy. It would, however, easily be solved if you were to revert the markets back to what they were a year ago (or maybe make a combination of the two systems). Back when a player could place their haven bag anywhere on the trade bridge and then register their entire haven bag content with one click, the market was thriving in a way that is impossible now. Players who are actively looking for the common drops actually have issues finding them now, because other players believe they are unsellable, but they are very much sellable if only they were easier to find. I remember trade bridges being completely filled with haven bags, so filled that you would not find ONE empty space on the entire bridge, and I am confident that the playerbase is still big enough for that to happen if only the market system were to encourage it like it used to.

4. The market would also be better off if taxes were to be applied upon sales instead of upon advertising. In the real world you pay taxes when items are actually being exchanged between people, not every single time one person is simply trying to sell it. Taxes in the game right now are discouraging selling items and therefor hurting the market. Yes, it is true that the governments will get less kamas if the taxes were to be applied less often, but the market would also be used a lot more which should result in more kamas in the treasury.

5. I like that 1 kama means a lot. It is different from other games. If it is too hard for a new player to get 1 kama, don't inflate the entire economy but just simply give them 10 kamas together with Jonk's bag and they will have a decent starter pack right there. An extra introduction of 10 kamas per character will not inflate the economy much, but all your other ideas would.

I hope it is clear that I am against all the ideas posted in this devblog, and I hope my suggestions will give you a different perspective and better ideas.
I like everything you said save the 5th. Adding another decimal to prices would help sell things that other wise wouldn't sell, say easy to get drops like Clay or Iron.

But the rest of your ideas are very good, it would help enormously if they were applied.
Hope the developers read your post and start working on that direction.


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2012-10-29
posté December 21, 2012, 16:39:32 | #51

Quote (Nillii @ 21 December 2012 08:35) *
Haven't read any replies to this devblog, so this might have already been said.

1. The gap between rich and poor players will not improve by letting bosses drop kamas. It is the rich players who kill bosses often, they get the rare boss drops, and they sell the rare boss drops, and that is why they are rich in the first place.

2. By introducing more kamas into the economy, inflation will occur. The fact that every single player can create brand new kamas without removing anything from the economy means that the game will always suffer inflation, but adding even more kamas by letting the bosses drop them will only make the matters worse.

3. The issue with items being considered unsellable because they are too common would not be solved by inflating the economy. It would, however, easily be solved if you were to revert the markets back to what they were a year ago (or maybe make a combination of the two systems). Back when a player could place their haven bag anywhere on the trade bridge and then register their entire haven bag content with one click, the market was thriving in a way that is impossible now. Players who are actively looking for the common drops actually have issues finding them now, because other players believe they are unsellable, but they are very much sellable if only they were easier to find. I remember trade bridges being completely filled with haven bags, so filled that you would not find ONE empty space on the entire bridge, and I am confident that the playerbase is still big enough for that to happen if only the market system were to encourage it like it used to.

4. The market would also be better off if taxes were to be applied upon sales instead of upon advertising. In the real world you pay taxes when items are actually being exchanged between people, not every single time one person is simply trying to sell it. Taxes in the game right now are discouraging selling items and therefor hurting the market. Yes, it is true that the governments will get less kamas if the taxes were to be applied less often, but the market would also be used a lot more which should result in more kamas in the treasury.

5. I like that 1 kama means a lot. It is different from other games. If it is too hard for a new player to get 1 kama, don't inflate the entire economy but just simply give them 10 kamas together with Jonk's bag and they will have a decent starter pack right there. An extra introduction of 10 kamas per character will not inflate the economy much, but all your other ideas would.

I hope it is clear that I am against all the ideas posted in this devblog, and I hope my suggestions will give you a different perspective and better ideas.

100% agreed - i couldnt say it in better words.
Ankama please don't destroy wakfu stable economy.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2012-03-07
posté December 21, 2012, 16:41:16 | #52

Quote (Nillii @ 21 December 2012 08:35) *
Haven't read any replies to this devblog, so this might have already been said.

1. The gap between rich and poor players will not improve by letting bosses drop kamas. It is the rich players who kill bosses often, they get the rare boss drops, and they sell the rare boss drops, and that is why they are rich in the first place.

2. By introducing more kamas into the economy, inflation will occur. The fact that every single player can create brand new kamas without removing anything from the economy means that the game will always suffer inflation, but adding even more kamas by letting the bosses drop them will only make the matters worse.

3. The issue with items being considered unsellable because they are too common would not be solved by inflating the economy. It would, however, easily be solved if you were to revert the markets back to what they were a year ago (or maybe make a combination of the two systems). Back when a player could place their haven bag anywhere on the trade bridge and then register their entire haven bag content with one click, the market was thriving in a way that is impossible now. Players who are actively looking for the common drops actually have issues finding them now, because other players believe they are unsellable, but they are very much sellable if only they were easier to find. I remember trade bridges being completely filled with haven bags, so filled that you would not find ONE empty space on the entire bridge, and I am confident that the playerbase is still big enough for that to happen if only the market system were to encourage it like it used to.

4. The market would also be better off if taxes were to be applied upon sales instead of upon advertising. In the real world you pay taxes when items are actually being exchanged between people, not every single time one person is simply trying to sell it. Taxes in the game right now are discouraging selling items and therefor hurting the market. Yes, it is true that the governments will get less kamas if the taxes were to be applied less often, but the market would also be used a lot more which should result in more kamas in the treasury.

5. I like that 1 kama means a lot. It is different from other games. If it is too hard for a new player to get 1 kama, don't inflate the entire economy but just simply give them 10 kamas together with Jonk's bag and they will have a decent starter pack right there. An extra introduction of 10 kamas per character will not inflate the economy much, but all your other ideas would.

I hope it is clear that I am against all the ideas posted in this devblog, and I hope my suggestions will give you a different perspective and better ideas.

+1

You are right.


Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2008-06-30
posté December 21, 2012, 17:15:01 | #53
People! Please use the "like / +1" function on the posts instead of quoting the entire post and just putting a "+1, great!" under it.

This will also make it a lot easier for the devs because they won't have to scroll through pages and pages of text that are completely filled with quotes from other players and just have 1 or 2 words after it.


Community Helper * Member Since 2005-08-28
posté December 21, 2012, 17:38:55 | #54

Quote (Nillii @ 21 December 2012 08:35) *
Haven't read any replies to this devblog, so this might have already been said.

Points to 1-5
+1

I would like to add the lack of population on this server obviously affects the economy massively (negatively).On dofus I earn over 10 million kamas, simply buying and selling items. The items would sell in less than 24 hours. On Wakfu I haven't even thought to try this as even my insanity has it limits.

Now for Namstorms suggestion (the chances of him posted here are close to none)

Link all the market together from all the nations BUT clearly show what market the item belongs to.
So it would say JerryDB placed item X in Bonta Market. So your a nationalist you wont buy, or if your more easy going you will success.

This would also boost all the markets massively, so everyone would buy and sell items much faster.

A further note making kamas is not very difficult . I even wrote a guide for new players check it out.
You can get level 60 miner within 3 days pretty easy, and with all the +miner harvest items now you can go crazy inflated the economy its fun.

So my reply to all the changes proposed by the dev's
-1 As it doesn't solve any of the problems.


This post has been edited by JerryDB - December 21, 2012, 17:41:18.
Short Strich * Member Since 2010-08-24
posté December 21, 2012, 17:48:14 | #55
I think what we need is a 'wannabuy board'. So you can place the item or mats requests with an offer, and people can see it and take the offer if they provide them. That makes it easier to trade, since buyer can reach to the seller, not just the other way around. And this way new players can sell some important low level mats and earn money.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-03-25
posté December 21, 2012, 17:48:46 | #56

Quote (christinebr360 @ 21 December 2012 12:28) *

Quote (YukikoArtai @ 21 December 2012 12:08) *

Quote (Nillii @ 21 December 2012 08:35) *
5. I like that 1 kama means a lot. It is different from other games. If it is too hard for a new player to get 1 kama, don't inflate the entire economy but just simply give them 10 kamas together with Jonk's bag and they will have a decent starter pack right there. An extra introduction of 10 kamas per character will not inflate the economy much, but all your other ideas would.

This is a bad idea, because it can and will be abused. Create Character, trade 10 Kamas to existing charachter, delete charachter ...

I agree with all your other points though.

Really? I can't believe someone would actually waste their time creating new chars only to get 10 kamas oO It's just too much... same thing when u create chars, lvl up to 35 and do dngs to get gems... it would be better if u just mined for that amount of time.
You would be surprised

As for Nillii and Jer's posts, i agree fully, I'm really glad the community is taking this thread seriously because personally i think kamas is part of our future livelihood here on Wakfu.
The game has already grown far beyond what those who were hasty and quit without giving the game time to develop, even thought it would soon after. Given the right amount of patience, change will always occur and if u let it, it might just surprise u

~ Kanade


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 21, 2012, 18:12:20 | #57

Quote (Homaraga @ 21 December 2012 05:51) *

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 21 December 2012 04:51) *
@Homaraga

Dude it was just a suggestion where to start. Don't call people stupid right away if you don't understand the idea. It won't make your arguement better. If you disagree then just say why and give your own idea. UB drops have nothing to do with dungeon runs. You could as well say that players who make legendary weapon should be rewarded in kamas for the time they spend leveling proffesion, so don't compare one thing to another. I was just clearly saying that if they have problem with amount of kamas that boss should drop in dungeon, then they should take into account the time that players are spenging to mint kamas. If all people will fight over ore's, some will choose to find somekeys to dungeons instead and do the dungeon. It will be harder way then mining because it will require them to be of proper level or have good team (or both) and mining simply require you to run from 1 ore to another and you dont even need to plant anything or kill monsters. Kamas from boss's could make more players likely to help others, new comers, because they will get kamas for that, so they might leave boring mining and group up for a change. If you think it's too much kamas then how about 1/2 of the time or 1/3? Make some constructive feedback instead of laughing at others opinions and calling them stupid.

you are the one compared that fails.

ub dungeon is a dungeon.

no one ever going to mine if the kama drops from dungeon runs

since already items drop from are better than almost every craft items.
It all depends on the amount of kamas that dungeon boss will drop. Like i said they need tocompare itwith time spend tomint kamas and the time to do dungeon so that it will be still worth mining kamas but also to make there an alternative form to gain kamas form dungeons, thou more time consuming and harder.

And no, UB fight is not a dungeon fight. It's fight in the location where UB is. And even if it would be considered as dungeon - so what? It requires a lot of time to get there (waiting 1 week) and you might not even get a drop for your effort. Some kama reward would be nice there too.

Besides when wakfu will be more populated there will be always fights for ore's in mines so it's good that they plan to change this.


Quote (Lawquex @ 21 December 2012 13:43) *
People, when Ankama decides to give 1 Kama the worth of 1/10th of a Kama and they multiply your kama with the number 10, NOTHING CHANGES.
REALLY: NOTHING.
Prices will multiply with 10, and your kama income and savings will multiply with 10!

There is one positive factor: We can finally buy things that are not worth 1 Kama!
I mean, it is a shame that one part of the adventurer set costs the same amount of Kama as one unspecific level 25-40 item!

It doesn't make sense at all and Ankama only adds a better way to trade with the new Kama System.
That Bosses drop Kama isn't a bad thing either, since the amount is not decided yet.

I think it should just be a little: (Calculating with the new system (x10):
If my group destroys the Gobbal King, everyone of my group should gain 20-30 Kama.

This way, we won't be able to "farm" Kama, since it takes long enough to beat that dungeon, but it rewards the players as well. I don't see a problem with it.

Sure, this adds to the inflation, but not that much.
But I don't need this feature.

But again, people: X10 Kama doesn't change anything, the prices will just be better and the trade will start to flow.
And thats nice idea, since 20-30 kamas will be like 2 or 3 kamas now. That would be good for low level dungeons for sure. Amount of kamas from boss could be like drop wich will be divided by number of players involved to clear the dungeon.

In addition they could add the option that players who are too high lvled for the dungeon will not receive kamas reward.

And i also agree that multiplying kamas by 10 will make it easier to value some materials like wheat grains. Some items will change from 1 kama to 10 kama sell price, but others will keep being sold as 1 kama.

I also agree that they should change the way haven bag in market works - we should see on board all the items that are put in haven bags. Searching each haven bag one by one, window by window, is time consuming.

And i also agree that Taxes should not be paid when we just want to sell item, but when the item is sold. I have suggested this long ado, and other people did as well. Hope devs will consider this change.
Multiplying kamas by 10 is good step for cheap items to be sold and that will be better for economy and for low level players. But it doesn't solve all the problems.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2006-11-11
posté December 21, 2012, 22:15:00 | #58

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 21 December 2012 18:12) *


And i also agree that multiplying kamas by 10 will make it easier to value some materials like wheat grains. Some items will change from 1 kama to 10 kama sell price, but others will keep being sold as 1 kama.

Multiplying kamas by 10 is good step for cheap items to be sold and that will be better for economy and for low level players. But it doesn't solve all the problems.

We don't need x10 kamas idea to sell your 1 grain or "cheap item".

Why ppl don't buy 1 grain for 1k? cause its not worth it. Maybe its worth lets say 0,5k. How to sell something for 0,5k? Sell 10 grains for 5k. Market already gives you the option for selling items in bunch (x10 x50 x100).

Let's say ankama will implement their "great" x10 kama idea ingame. What will they do if someone who cannot sell their crap drop even for "new 1 kama" start moaning on forum?
We all know solution: another x10 money miracle.

Don't multiply kamas - we don't need it. Wakfu don't need it. We have stable economy - don't ruin that.

Please don't give ppl "free" 200 kamas. We don't need that. If you give everyone these money - kamas worth will decrase. Don't start inflation. Give ppl extra items, pets, etc. Let them even sell it. But leave money as they are atm.


This post has been edited by auramancer - December 21, 2012, 23:32:29.
Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2012-07-27
posté December 21, 2012, 23:21:08 | #59
I have some question?
If you multiply kamas *10. Zaap, destroy made by chaos, and gov items, and in future haven world icrease *10??
If increase for me is useless idea
If not + 1 for me
Second think make better something like make kamas *5 *10*20*50*100.
For example i wanna make 60000 kamas.
60000 Kamas = 4000 Grainy Manganese + 3000 Hazy Lead.
make 60 kamas i need spend 5 second if i wanna make 60000
i need spend 5000 second = 83 min and 20 second
add
300 = 20 Grainy Manganese + 15 hazy lead
600 = 40 grainy manganese + 30 hazy lead
and more more

Kamas from boss, hmm if you add this, a lot of player will exchange value items by items but not by kama .
For me -1


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-03-23
posté December 21, 2012, 23:32:09 | #60
Really, what's the logic behind this?

You get 1 kama per iron ore, but market prices will be multiplied by 10, so an item that would cost 1k before this, will be worth 10k, making a new player mine 10 iron ores to buy it, the same ammount he had to mine to buy items worth 1k before. Do you get what I mean? IT CHANGES NOTHING.

The only difference this could make would be regarding zaap/boat prices, if they remain the same price, of course.
The only thing that could really impact on something would be kama drops from bosses, even then, it still won't be implemented yet.

Seriously, this update will only serve to make the economy more chaotic than it is, who is rich, will still be rich, who is poor, will still be poor, nothing will change.