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Shu'Far Away From Home
Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2007-11-07
posté February 05, 2014, 17:24:12 | #261
We have decided to balance the following 2 spells.
  • Wall of Flame: Will increase to 3 triggers per turn and per target. Damage will decrease from 54 to 44 (level 100) and 104 to 84 (level 200).

What is meant by "increase"? It sounds like it should be "Limited to", seeing as a target currently can be damaged more than 3 times. And personally this seems like an incredibly stupid nerf. A fire rogue is one of the only classes which requires a certain level of skill to use; place bombs, moving bombs, summon Clawbot to push and pull bombs to create a firewall on the map. Its now limited to 3 damage per turn?

There is no other way for a fire rogue to cause damage. Ok now I know your thinking "blow the bombs up!" Ok, yeah well you can but a bomb takes just as much AP to throw, as it does to blow up, so Mega Bomb can take 10ap to blow up! Whip seems like a waste of of spell for a rogue. Why would anyone level it? You could be lvl 100, and even if the spell was at lvl 200 (40damage), it still wouldn't cause any damage. And flaming claw is good, but without its range being modifiable, you have to be 3 tiles away.

Now, on the other hand.

Earth rogue.... Stand, walk 1 square, point, click- boom! 1000 damage.

*Next players turn*

Earth Rogue..... walk 2 squares or so, point, click- boom! 1000 damage.

etc.

1- How f'ing boring
2- Easiest high damage in the game.

Point of my rant (I apologies)

I understand that Firewall was nerfed because of other players abusing its power....but if your going to do that, at least make flaming claw have modifiable range so that we may be able to move across the board and increase the option for skill with the rogue.

Earth rogues seem boring, I suppose I'm just jealous that they can so easily cause so much damage compared to fire and air rogues. (Maybe do something about it?)

I don't understand how firewall stops causing damage. Does the target magically develop some sort of armor which stops it from being damaged by a wall of fire? Just saying....Also, I cannot believe that the damage would have to be nerfed as well.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2011-10-10
posté February 05, 2014, 17:24:49 | #262

Quote (Merriden @ 05 February 2014 17:06) *

Quote (Sabi @ 05 February 2014 16:41) *
Rogue
  • We have decided to ruin the following 2 spells.
  • Wall of Flame: Will increase to 3 triggers per turn and per target. Damage will decrease from 54 to 44 (level 100) and 104 to 84 (level 200).
  • Piercing Shot: The loss of resistance will decrease from -100% to -50% (level 100) and -200% to -100% (level 200).

My heart is broken. I hate you, Ankama.
Totally aggree. Well fu**ing done ankama -.-


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté February 05, 2014, 17:43:01 | #263
I expected them to nerf fire walls, they are currently too strong. However, they were very badly changed, it just doesn't make any sense at all enemies walking on fire glyphs and not receiving any damage.

The area of effect of Firewalls outshines bomb explosions right, why just not make this area of effect restricted to bombs that are aligned? Just like in Dofus. That would be the best solution at all.

Bombs are made to be exploded xD


Note: Fire Rogues need a lot of changes to get any close to the strategist rogue we have in Dofus D: firstly, make detonator activate a bomb and not reduce charges. Second, make bombs do more damage the more time they stay in a fight without being activated and bingo!


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - February 05, 2014, 17:46:01.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté February 05, 2014, 18:16:50 | #264
I had a random thought when you mentioned Detonator.

I wonder what Wakfu would be like with reactionary skills in a turn based game. The enemy moves into your ticking Firewall... and the Rogue is prompted with an option to detonate the bombs immediately. It would be difficult to code but it can be done.

I can just imagine other fun skills that would follow suit.

Overwatch: Attack an enemy as they pass within your field of fire.


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2011-09-10
posté February 05, 2014, 18:25:55 | #265
This fire rogue nerf is the stupid thing ever in this game... I know, I understand that firewall was too strong, devs should limit ini in stats first (like dodge and lock), I don't like the way how just they did that. 3 per turn? Maybe I don't understand it well, but it sounds like fire rogue will now do dmg 3 times dmg to first mob and rest will stay untouched? Is there any purpose to make firewall at all? I'll do more dmg (aoe dmg!) on mobs just detonating bombs.
For us it's sometimes hard to play normally, we can't put bombs on targets, we need to think how to play smart and don't hurt anyone. But who cares...
I played with fire rogue without firewall and was really strong (and much funnier to play), but now I think I'll never do firewall again...


Scary Polter * Member Since 2012-01-07
posté February 05, 2014, 18:32:15 | #266

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 05 February 2014 17:43) *
Firstly, make detonator activate a bomb and not reduce charges. Second, make bombs do more damage the more time they stay in a fight without being activated and bingo!

That would be great. o.o

I'm frustrated with these rogue changes, because while my fire rogue certainly carries her weight on the team most of the time, there are a few situations where she feels so useless, because she is not a hybrid, and fire rogue has very few means of attack. Sometimes she doesn't have the line of sight to set up a firewall, and sometimes she can't detonate bombs without hurting teammates. At those times, she can only end her turn having done very little.

We all admit that fire rogues are pretty amazing, maybe too amazing, but this change cripples them. The 20% damage reduction is just salt in the wound. My rogue's damage per turn has been cut down to perhaps 1/5 of what it used to be. My only options are to finally hybrid, or just stop playing her entirely, because with this it would be more worth it to bring a different damage dealing class.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté February 05, 2014, 18:48:40 | #267
Rogues needed a mechanism that rewarded a strategy based gameplay, currently if you detonate a bomb right after you throw it or after 3 turns you do the same damage.

Back in beta we even had some interesting active spell, the Powder, which could have stayed and modified into a better version...

Every bomb should do a lot less damage when triggered after summoned, but the damage could increase for every turn they stay untouched, making it possible to reach horrors of damage.

Like, for example:

  • Burning Bomb: cost changed to 3, (3) (40) (80) damage when exploded. Gains +(5) (50) (100) levels of Burning for every turn it stays alive. When triggered, it can add up to 200 levels of burning. (Burning State should have at least 600 levels for that to work in chain reactions xD)
  • Powder: increases the area of effect of bombs by 1 cell, increases bomb explosion damage.
  • Boombot: can swap places with bombs.
  • Chain Reaction: bombs gain damage when exploded together (+40% per bomb).
  • Bomb Walls: they appear as connections between 2 bombs aligned. Increase bomb wall damage.
  • Make it possible to stack bombs (up to 3) in the same cell. This could increase the area of effect and damage when detonated.
  • Make Blinding Bomb have a linear area of effect: to make it possible to use it more strategically, for example, for not hurting mates.
  • Improve damage of Flaming Claw, Rogues need something else to do damage D:
  • Make Barbed Fire swap places with a bomb.
  • Make Mega Bomb become deadlier and deadlier for every turn it stays untouched.
  • Increase the Movement points of Boombot to 7.

This is just a random thought. It'd rather see that than just nerfs everywhere, pointless nerfs that only reduce more and more one of the most strategic classes in wakfu...


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - February 05, 2014, 18:50:24.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté February 05, 2014, 18:51:24 | #268

Quote (Merriden @ 05 February 2014 18:32) *

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 05 February 2014 17:43) *
Firstly, make detonator activate a bomb and not reduce charges. Second, make bombs do more damage the more time they stay in a fight without being activated and bingo!

That would be great. o.o

I'm frustrated with these rogue changes, because while my fire rogue certainly carries her weight on the team most of the time, there are a few situations where she feels so useless, because she is not a hybrid, and fire rogue has very few means of attack. Sometimes she doesn't have the line of sight to set up a firewall, and sometimes she can't detonate bombs without hurting teammates. At those times, she can only end her turn having done very little.

We all admit that fire rogues are pretty amazing, maybe too amazing, but this change cripples them. The 20% damage reduction is just salt in the wound. My rogue's damage per turn has been cut down to perhaps 1/5 of what it used to be. My only options are to finally hybrid, or just stop playing her entirely, because with this it would be more worth it to bring a different damage dealing class.

I think you'll really enjoy fire/earth instead of pure fire. The option to attack with earth spells when firewall or bombs are not an option is MORE than worth a few fire dmg%.


Quote (Calleen @ 05 February 2014 18:25) *
This fire rogue nerf is the stupid thing ever in this game... I know, I understand that firewall was too strong, devs should limit ini in stats first (like dodge and lock), I don't like the way how just they did that. 3 per turn? Maybe I don't understand it well, but it sounds like fire rogue will now do dmg 3 times dmg to first mob and rest will stay untouched? Is there any purpose to make firewall at all? I'll do more dmg (aoe dmg!) on mobs just detonating bombs.
For us it's sometimes hard to play normally, we can't put bombs on targets, we need to think how to play smart and don't hurt anyone. But who cares...
I played with fire rogue without firewall and was really strong (and much funnier to play), but now I think I'll never do firewall again...

I'm pretty sure it's 3 procs per target. So every monster walking or being moved around the firewall will take 3 hits max a turn cycle.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté February 05, 2014, 18:57:37 | #269

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 05 February 2014 18:48) *
Rogues needed a mechanism that rewarded a strategy based gameplay, currently if you detonate a bomb right after you throw it or after 3 turns you do the same damage.

Back in beta we even had some interesting active spell, the Powder, which could have stayed and modified into a better version...

Every bomb should do a lot less damage when triggered after summoned, but the damage could increase for every turn they stay untouched, making it possible to reach horrors of damage.

Like, for example:

  • Burning Bomb: cost changed to 3, (3) (40) (80) damage when exploded. Gains +(5) (50) (100) levels of Burning for every turn it stays alive. When triggered, it can add up to 200 levels of burning. (Burning State should have at least 600 levels for that to work in chain reactions xD)
  • Powder: increases the area of effect of bombs by 1 cell, increases bomb explosion damage.
  • Boombot: can swap places with bombs.
  • Chain Reaction: bombs gain damage when exploded together (+40% per bomb).
  • Bomb Walls: they appear as connections between 2 bombs aligned. Increase bomb wall damage.
  • Make it possible to stack bombs (up to 3) in the same cell. This could increase the area of effect and damage when detonated.
  • Make Blinding Bomb have a linear area of effect: to make it possible to use it more strategically, for example, for not hurting mates.
  • Improve damage of Flaming Claw, Rogues need something else to do damage D:
  • Make Barbed Fire swap places with a bomb.
  • Make Mega Bomb become deadlier and deadlier for every turn it stays untouched.
  • Increase the Movement points of Boombot to 7.

This is just a random thought. It'd rather see that than just nerfs everywhere, pointless nerfs that only reduce more and more one of the most strategic classes in wakfu...

Bombs gaining strength as turns pass is great but how do you balance this? Making them much weaker on turn one means bad things for short fights. If they have a good base dmg on turn one they will be too powerful on the following turns.

Back in Beta/release the Rogue was by far the worst class in Wakfu. The revamp was amazing for this class.


This post has been edited by Gynrei - February 05, 2014, 18:58:10.
Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2012-07-13
posté February 05, 2014, 18:57:56 | #270
And for god sake wall of fame isnt a spell


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté February 05, 2014, 19:01:22 | #271
@Gynrei

Yup, I know. But consider the time invested, the AP invested, and the turns without doing decent damage. It should be worth it.

For Short Fights Rogues can use other spells that directly do damage, I think bombs gameplay should be restricted to that, otherwise I'd rather take a Cra or a Fire enu that has a great direct damage with area of effect power :]


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - February 05, 2014, 19:02:04.
Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2005-08-02
posté February 05, 2014, 19:07:45 | #272

Quote (celestialknight @ 05 February 2014 17:24) *
We have decided to balance the following 2 spells.
  • Wall of Flame: Will increase to 3 triggers per turn and per target. Damage will decrease from 54 to 44 (level 100) and 104 to 84 (level 200).

What is meant by "increase"? It sounds like it should be "Limited to", seeing as a target currently can be damaged more than 3 times. And personally this seems like an incredibly stupid nerf. A fire rogue is one of the only classes which requires a certain level of skill to use; place bombs, moving bombs, summon Clawbot to push and pull bombs to create a firewall on the map. Its now limited to 3 damage per turn?

There is no other way for a fire rogue to cause damage. Ok now I know your thinking "blow the bombs up!" Ok, yeah well you can but a bomb takes just as much AP to throw, as it does to blow up, so Mega Bomb can take 10ap to blow up! Whip seems like a waste of of spell for a rogue. Why would anyone level it? You could be lvl 100, and even if the spell was at lvl 200 (40damage), it still wouldn't cause any damage. And flaming claw is good, but without its range being modifiable, you have to be 3 tiles away.

Now, on the other hand.

Earth rogue.... Stand, walk 1 square, point, click- boom! 1000 damage.

*Next players turn*

Earth Rogue..... walk 2 squares or so, point, click- boom! 1000 damage.

etc.

1- How f'ing boring
2- Easiest high damage in the game.

Point of my rant (I apologies)

I understand that Firewall was nerfed because of other players abusing its power....but if your going to do that, at least make flaming claw have modifiable range so that we may be able to move across the board and increase the option for skill with the rogue.

Earth rogues seem boring, I suppose I'm just jealous that they can so easily cause so much damage compared to fire and air rogues. (Maybe do something about it?)

I don't understand how firewall stops causing damage. Does the target magically develop some sort of armor which stops it from being damaged by a wall of fire? Just saying....Also, I cannot believe that the damage would have to be nerfed as well.

There is no reason to play a Rogue pure fire, it's the perfect hybrid class. This is starting to smell like an Ankama style ubernerf though, I'm preparing for the worst with regards to carpets. In all fairness though - and this is coming from someone with a Rogue - they are op as hell right now.


Scary Polter * Member Since 2012-01-07
posté February 05, 2014, 19:21:10 | #273
Either don't implement these Rogue nerfs, or give Rogues a free respec on patch.


Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2012-07-13
posté February 05, 2014, 19:31:46 | #274
I just tested it. It sucks, firewall hitting 340's at 120 resis. Base bomb is 70's.

He walks 3 mp on fire wall, suffers 340x3.
If I use barbed fire 2x on my turn, the oponent will only suffer 340x whithin its turn. So if he walks he wont suffer damage.

Basicly, put fire wall and hit. Using barbed fire will reduce its procs against the oponents


Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2010-06-10
posté February 05, 2014, 19:46:17 | #275
Why nerf and why not balancing? Fire rogue is useless now.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2012-09-01
posté February 05, 2014, 19:55:48 | #276
*clap clap* woah fire rogue nerf, so now we will have more time to waste in bugged and broken dungs, that u didnt' fixed and maybe u dont' even care that are in such state.
But hey! wakfu team whole priority is nerf, nerf, nerf, couse u dont' want to make ur life easy, but u know its already hard enough thank to enu drop i see whole run empty of any drops even with chals done, and now you take away our speed in do things.. and no for the sake of god a bielement? where is the reason of doing a it? then 12 ap rogue with ap gear and detonation is the way! in the mean time u shitted in the face on all the people who spend days farming relics (and ty god that i dropped solomonk before patch) also u think is fun to change classes that take a lot of efforts to set in endgame, now i want pp system change and a blonde to s**** my d**** but hey i cant get all from life can i?


Ambitious Crackapult * Member Since 2009-10-10
posté February 05, 2014, 19:59:25 | #277
If you're going to implement this change to firewall let me kick bombs onto eachother again.


Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2013-11-26
posté February 05, 2014, 20:04:43 | #278
i need to stay 2 days in wa castle for a damn run?? -.-'


Community Manager * Member Since 2013-07-08
posté February 05, 2014, 20:04:47 | #279

Quote (BigCarrotz @ 05 February 2014 19:46) *
Why nerf and why not balancing? Fire rogue is useless now.

Hi guys,

I understand that the changes on the Rogue comes as a bit of a surprise, from first appearing on the Beta server and needing to be confirmed still and I do want to apologize for that and will make sure to get this improved with the team.

Now I did ask Grou to explain further the Rogue changes and here is what he said:

"The limitation on Wall of Flame is to prevent AI abuse, but it is planned in the future to review the Fire Rogue to give more flexibility. Regarding Piercing Shot, it was simply too strong but if the change makes it too weak, then a review will be considered."

As usual, I will continue to share your feedback and I am also specially interested on the parts of the changelog that you still feel needs further explanations. I have already collected some but please keep on sharing them as it is important to have you understand them properly.




Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2013-11-26
posté February 05, 2014, 20:07:57 | #280
sabi..you know how much time WE need for exp one chars??
ask you that first of ******* one class