Back to forum.wakfu.com

No flash

Shu'Far Away From Home
Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-01-22
posté February 06, 2014, 23:05:55 | #341

Quote (Gynrei @ 06 February 2014 22:42) *
@Toasty: I fail to see how a mob getting hit by storm arrow at max 2 per turn is much different than getting hit by firewall 3 per turn. The potential damage inflicted from firewall is extremely high for the AP invested. Should i compare it to other AoE's in the game?

I'm probably going to antagonize you further but... yes, I can certainly calculate the potential dmg from Punishment and Firewall. Every spell has a very real number cap to it based on your gear and your target. Why should Firewall be different?

Feca's are getting their glyphs 'nerfed' as well. They will only activate upon the start of the targets turn. Pushing, pulling, or pandas can't activate them multiple times. We don't know how Feca's new glyphs will play out yet. They haven't even been released.

I prefer to think Ankama is trying to stop the game becoming Roguefu. If they left this class as strong as it is more people will play them to compete. Many players bandwagon the strongest classes, this isn't a new theme in MMO's. I don't want to see that happen.

I don't think that's a great analogy. Ankama took away your screw-driver so you didn't poke the other kids eyes out in PvP when they're only allowed to use their bare hands (Forgive me if that was silly)
My point about the Sac's punishment and whatnot was that the only limit to the move is how often you can use it. The limit being put on Fire Wall is a very definitive line being put on the damage of the mechanic. Perhaps you're right in saying that all moves need an end-game that they shouldn't pass. All of the other moves in the game like Storm Arrow, Punishment, and whatever the hell you call a Xelor's blow-uppey thing are limited by things like Ap, Wp, and Mp, so maybe Fire Wall needs one too. Personally, I think that the limit of 3 per turn is too harsh of a limit. I'd rather see Ankama completely destroy the damage of the move as opposed to making it wholly ineffective after a handful of procs.

I think part of the reason that I'm so ardent on them removing the cap is that Fire Wall is one of the most technical and engaging parts of the game that not many players fully come to realise. Not many people can fully understand how to use all of the tools in the Rogue's arsenal to get the most out of the system, and now the one's that do are being punished for its clever use. For instance, I was watching Cie pvp in 5th the other day and when the enemy stepped outside the Fire Wall, I thought that would be the end for the Fire Wall until she could set it back up in a proper spot. Instead, she placed a bomb on the edge of the Fire Wall (that didn't further the reach of the Fire Wall) and used Barbed Wire to teleport the enemy to the other side of the bomb and back into the Fire Wall's territory. I can admit that I wouldn't have thought of something so clever, and I'm glad that there's a lot of interesting strategies that are coming out this strategy game.

Yeah, Rogue's are the hot class right now. And Cra's were too, not too long ago. The problem is that Earth Rogue's are still going to dominate, and even if they don't, another class will just take their place.

That analogy was far too silly and I simply refuse to forgive you.


Scary Polter * Member Since 2012-02-26
posté February 06, 2014, 23:17:17 | #342

Quote (Gynrei @ 06 February 2014 22:42) *
Allowing players to abuse game mechanics to kill faster gives them more kama, levels and items than players who do not abuse them.

Please stop calling standard fire Rogue fighting tactics "abuse".


Speechless Crobak * Member Since 2012-03-12
posté February 06, 2014, 23:25:58 | #343

Quote (Karakedi @ 06 February 2014 18:01) *
Wow, so many people here "complaining/whining" about Rogue's while they are one of the most OP classes ever. I have read at least 5 pages of complaints about this class. But if one person comes here and complaints about Sadida's being nerfed to the ground, we get 5 hate pages :S

I would say, welcome to sadida's world. Ankama fucks classes, deal with it!! I am not saying that I am supporting Ankama but all this unfairness going on from Ankama's side and players hating is pissing me off. Now you all can taste some nerfs and know how Sadida's feel...


You're bad at Sadida if you think they're a bad class. Neutering an entire branch and ruining its potential or even how it's meant to be played on a developers whim is not how this game should be changed this late into it.

Like I've said before if they would allow boombot to kick bombs over one another (causing them to explode) Fire Rogue would be fine with this firewall nerf. Megabomb + Blinding + boombot is enough damage that they're still up to par with other classes and not completely gimped.
 


This post has been edited by Agosta - February 06, 2014, 23:28:28.
Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2013-09-14
posté February 07, 2014, 05:22:38 | #344
One less account to subscribe!

Hope this nerf causes a lot more people to stop subbing their Rogue accounts. If I learned anything during my time here, Anakama only cares about their money, not their players' feedback.

What a poor way to go around fixing an "OP" spell by breaking the entire class.


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2013-08-17
posté February 07, 2014, 05:47:42 | #345

Quote (Gynrei @ 06 February 2014 22:42) *
@Merriden: Sorry if that was confusing. I don't believe there is only one correct answer to this situation.

My point was that if you don't balance things around PvE as well it can have a direct impact on PvP. Allowing players to abuse game mechanics to kill faster gives them more kama, levels and items than players who do not abuse them. In other words, Rogues allow you to farm faster and get more loot than players using other classes. And in PvP, gear is important, so better gear and more runes is a tangible advantage of having a Rogue.

I don't want to see classes homogenized. But i don't want to see one class to rule them all either. Those are both extreme cases and unfortunately Rogue fit into the later and needed adjustment.

@Beezle: Luck is irrelevant. If i go by worst case scenario, 40 min rogue run 2 hour non rogue run... this equals 3 times as many runs for the rogue team. 3 times the possible drops. That seems significant to me.

@Toasty: I fail to see how a mob getting hit by storm arrow at max 2 per turn is much different than getting hit by firewall 3 per turn. The potential damage inflicted from firewall is extremely high for the AP invested. Should i compare it to other AoE's in the game?

I'm probably going to antagonize you further but... yes, I can certainly calculate the potential dmg from Punishment and Firewall. Every spell has a very real number cap to it based on your gear and your target. Why should Firewall be different?

Feca's are getting their glyphs 'nerfed' as well. They will only activate upon the start of the targets turn. Pushing, pulling, or pandas can't activate them multiple times. We don't know how Feca's new glyphs will play out yet. They haven't even been released.

I prefer to think Ankama is trying to stop the game becoming Roguefu. If they left this class as strong as it is more people will play them to compete. Many players bandwagon the strongest classes, this isn't a new theme in MMO's. I don't want to see that happen.

I don't think that's a great analogy. Ankama took away your screw-driver so you didn't poke the other kids eyes out in PvP when they're only allowed to use their bare hands (Forgive me if that was silly)
Look this is probably going to be my last post. It doesnt matter if rogues run content faster. You shouldnt want content to last for 1-2 hours anyways regardless of what class you take. If you like wasting time then go ahead. It's very clear that this nerf or any class nerf isnt deserved but they are players like you that always try to justify why its ok for a class to get nerf'd. The reason for the nerf itself was dumb. AI abuse ? So because ankama doesnt want to work on their own mobs they nerf a class? Then players because they are what ? Envious of the fact that one class is able to do some content fairly easily, hop on ankamas nerf wagon. Oh wait... I remember not to long ago people were saying panda barrel block was op and they were demanding a nerf. If i ask people whether they wanted the nerf for pvp or pvm and they said pvm. I'd say bull shit. The community needs to get their shit together. If you are a support class know that you arent suppose to hit as hard as a DPT class. Dont go crying about it, use the freakin specialities they gave you. If it isnt enough ask for a buff. I know the DPT classes are complaining Iops are still viable in end game content while the best strats are all about kitting and keeping mobs away. You ever wonder how much bread a cra needs ? Cras are maybe the one class that needs what 3 times less bread than any other class , apart from enis i suppose. They get range DPT and they get decent resists. Best of both worlds.

The reason this game is going to shit is because we are content with the crap ankama gives us. idgaf if they are like 7 people developing the game. It's VERY clear how ankama works. They do all their work 3 weeks before the release. The freakin Feca really got revamped a week ago. The changes from the devblog should have just been minor tweaks on the beta forum. We should have been pushing the feca to the limit to find bugs; instead we found work that was barely started. It doesnt take a freakin rocket scientist to realize that nerfs are really ankama being lazy. Then i get on the forum to see people talk about how rogues are whining about a nerf and that they deserve a nerf hammer. I've ask people why do they think rogues deserve a nerf and i got answers like " it's not normal for them to run high lvl content faster than any other class" Here's my answer to that. 130 + mobs get a dmg buff for anyone lower than them, they get ridiculously high resist. Now you are going to tell me that its not normal for a lvl 130 rogue to kill a monster or 2 of the same lvl all because what its end game content? Lets go back abit. A lvl 60 cra fighting moowolf. it will fight moowolf alot easier and faster than an iop or a sac or any other class cause it can kite everything. I bet the community is going to say lvl 60 cras deserve a nerf because its running mobs its lvl a lot easier than any other class. I can go on with a lot more examples, but its pretty clear that demanding/supporting such a nerf form the community is stupid.

Demanding/supporting a nerf comes down to PvP. Its the only acceptable reason for someone to ask for a nerf. It makes player vs player gameplay unfair[ sounds reasonable right?]. I dont see why player would complain about player versus monsters. " Oooooo that guy crit for 2k on a monster, that class needs a nerf. Off to the forums" That basically what the community is saying about any dmg nerf. Oh and if you ddnt know yet... after the sram and panda revamp. EVERY CLASS IS GET REWORKED FOR PVP. So any nerf they do for pvp it should apply to PvM. Man i cant wait to see what the community is going to say if there is a mass nerf for pvp. What's going to be your reason to support all class nerfs? Ankama knows best? I bet they do. - Looks at arena, alkatrool, postponed GvG, PvP, Revamps, Harebourg chapter 2-

-tis my last post. enjoy the perpetual nerf demands/support. When that revamp 2.0 happens beware.


The Sinister Six * Member Since 2012-02-09
posté February 07, 2014, 05:55:33 | #346
Rogues deserved nerfs.

I really don't see any justification to not nerf them. It's pretty easy to just blindly get pissed off at any spit that hits the windshield of the great balanced Rogue, I guess.


Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2013-09-14
posté February 07, 2014, 06:49:09 | #347

Quote (Beezle @ 07 February 2014 05:47) *
.

You -sir- are full of win.


The Sinister Six * Member Since 2012-02-09
posté February 07, 2014, 08:08:20 | #348

Quote (Bloody1985 @ 07 February 2014 05:22) *
One less account to subscribe!

Hope this nerf causes a lot more people to stop subbing their Rogue accounts. If I learned anything during my time here, Anakama only cares about their money, not their players' feedback.

What a poor way to go around fixing an "OP" spell by breaking the entire class.
You don't even have a Rogue, where is your viewpoint even coming from

Any smart 140 player can admit how strong Rogues are compared to everything else

your denial is delicious to me
 


Scary Polter * Member Since 2012-03-05
posté February 07, 2014, 08:19:05 | #349
"AI Abuse" is a poor excuse
rework AI to be not so stupid

e.g. in dofus mobs tend to avoid feca glyphs


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-01-22
posté February 07, 2014, 09:21:17 | #350

Quote (axemangx @ 07 February 2014 08:08) *

Quote (Bloody1985 @ 07 February 2014 05:22) *
One less account to subscribe!

Hope this nerf causes a lot more people to stop subbing their Rogue accounts. If I learned anything during my time here, Anakama only cares about their money, not their players' feedback.

What a poor way to go around fixing an "OP" spell by breaking the entire class.
You don't even have a Rogue, where is your viewpoint even coming from

Any smart 140 player can admit how strong Rogues are compared to everything else

your denial is delicious to me
You do realize that by saying "One less account to subscribe!" he was implying that he has multiple accounts, right? His Rogue is probably on one of the other 1-5 accounts. Furthermore, you don't need to own a Rogue to have an opinion on them.


Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-08-28
posté February 07, 2014, 12:34:44 | #351

Quote (Toasty4 @ 06 February 2014 21:24) *



Quote (Karakedi @ 06 February 2014 18:01) *
Wow, so many people here "complaining/whining" about Rogue's while they are one of the most OP classes ever. I have read at least 5 pages of complaints about this class. But if one person comes here and complaints about Sadida's being nerfed to the ground, we get 5 hate pages :S

I would say, welcome to sadida's world. Ankama fucks classes, deal with it!! I am not saying that I am supporting Ankama but all this unfairness going on from Ankama's side and players hating is pissing me off. Now you all can taste some nerfs and know how Sadida's feel...
So your argument is that since Sadi's are broken, Ankama should break the rest of the classes as well? Are you a masochist?


I believe you read wrong what I wrote there. Read the bold part. I said clearly that I am not supporting Ankama on nerfing classes at all. But I am sick and tired to see unfairness on players side too. When a Sadida comes here and complains about their class being almost nerfed to the ground, we see 5 pages full of hate.

It would be better if the entire community would support each other and acknowledge that a class is indeed nerfed a lot and need buff instead of nerfing. Instead of nerfing a class I would prefer that Ankama buffs the rest of the classes and the entire community should support each other in that aspect. But as long as this does not happen, I think some of the community, especially the ones who plays OP classes need an eye opener. And if being nerfed to the ground is what it needs to take, then it is what it needs to take...


Quote (Gynrei @ 06 February 2014 22:42) *


I don't want to see classes homogenized. But i don't want to see one class to rule them all either. Those are both extreme cases and unfortunately Rogue fit into the later and needed adjustment.


this


Speechless Crobak * Member Since 2012-03-12
posté February 07, 2014, 15:46:28 | #352

Quote (Karakedi @ 07 February 2014 12:34) *

Quote (Toasty4 @ 06 February 2014 21:24) *



Quote (Karakedi @ 06 February 2014 18:01) *
Wow, so many people here "complaining/whining" about Rogue's while they are one of the most OP classes ever. I have read at least 5 pages of complaints about this class. But if one person comes here and complaints about Sadida's being nerfed to the ground, we get 5 hate pages :S

I would say, welcome to sadida's world. Ankama fucks classes, deal with it!! I am not saying that I am supporting Ankama but all this unfairness going on from Ankama's side and players hating is pissing me off. Now you all can taste some nerfs and know how Sadida's feel...
So your argument is that since Sadi's are broken, Ankama should break the rest of the classes as well? Are you a masochist?


I believe you read wrong what I wrote there. Read the bold part. I said clearly that I am not supporting Ankama on nerfing classes at all. But I am sick and tired to see unfairness on players side too. When a Sadida comes here and complains about their class being almost nerfed to the ground, we see 5 pages full of hate.

It would be better if the entire community would support each other and acknowledge that a class is indeed nerfed a lot and need buff instead of nerfing. Instead of nerfing a class I would prefer that Ankama buffs the rest of the classes and the entire community should support each other in that aspect. But as long as this does not happen, I think some of the community, especially the ones who plays OP classes need an eye opener. And if being nerfed to the ground is what it needs to take, then it is what it needs to take...


Quote (Gynrei @ 06 February 2014 22:42) *


I don't want to see classes homogenized. But i don't want to see one class to rule them all either. Those are both extreme cases and unfortunately Rogue fit into the later and needed adjustment.


this


You don't even realize that these decisions weren't made with enough thought and they were implemented because they'red "planning" on making changes in the future. How anyone can even support ruining a full branch of a class is beyond me. The only reason they're doing this is because they want to protect their precious Wa gear.



This post has been edited by [MOD]Itsade - February 08, 2014, 02:12:56.
Reason for edit : Flaming
Community Manager * Member Since 2013-07-08
posté February 07, 2014, 17:23:48 | #353
Just to let you guys know, while I was updating the February Update changelog, I encountered issues with my publishing tool, therefore the complete update of the changelog is delayed until it is repaired which shouldn't take long.

You can already see some of the new changes in teal.

Thank you for your understanding.


Community Manager * Member Since 2013-07-08
posté February 07, 2014, 18:45:02 | #354
Hi guys,

Here is the complete list of changes for today, some are already added and some will be added as soon as possible:

Changes already added:


​Eniripsa
  • General: Spells visual effects will be improved.

Sidekicks
  • Skale: Liquid Assets and Appeasement will no longer be cast on an empty cell.

Dungeons

  • Jelly Dungeon: We will be making the following changes:
  • It will not be possible for Jellies to overlap with the players when they are summoned in combat.
  • Targeting the Boss King Jellix square will only affect the last person to have inflicted damage.
  • Targeting the square will be reset when the square will be placed.

Quests
  • Wa Wabbit Hunt (Wabbit Island): The validation dialog of Valentin Fay will correctly trigger the quest.
  • Reliability (Astrub): You will receive 2 Backup Soles and will have to crush 2 Larva Eggs.
  • First Mission (Astrub): Pappy Pal will no longer give a single cloth bag to perform the harvest action.

Challenges
  • Quester's Block: If a player loses his Quester's Block state at the end of a fight, he will be automatically added to the current challenge in his area (if there is one).

Items

  • Crafty Elf Costume: It will become tradable.


Changes to be added:


Nations
  • Sufokia: The invisible visual of the Marketplace near Jonk will be removed.

Quests
  • Django (Wabbit Island): The Black Wabbit HQ will be correctly marked by a marker on the map.
  • Bilbiza: Quests destinations will be correctly marked by a marker on the map.



Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-11-20
posté February 07, 2014, 21:17:38 | #355
You'd think if the spell is only going to damage 3x a turn, you could at least expect a buff to the base damage.

But oh no, not in Ankama's world.

Thanks for having us all forced into metaphorical carnal relations with the family dog. Your overly difficult, highly resistant stuff is going to take even longer to kill than before. Thanks for nothing, Ankama. Instead of nerfing 2 branches of a class that can sometimes stand up to endgame content, you could have buffed other classes that lagged behind. But oh no- you just had to screw the pooch.


Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-08-28
posté February 07, 2014, 21:33:57 | #356

Quote (Agosta @ 07 February 2014 15:46) *

Quote (Karakedi @ 07 February 2014 12:34) *

I believe you read wrong what I wrote there. Read the bold part. I said clearly that I am not supporting Ankama on nerfing classes at all. But I am sick and tired to see unfairness on players side too. When a Sadida comes here and complains about their class being almost nerfed to the ground, we see 5 pages full of hate.

It would be better if the entire community would support each other and acknowledge that a class is indeed nerfed a lot and need buff instead of nerfing. Instead of nerfing a class I would prefer that Ankama buffs the rest of the classes and the entire community should support each other in that aspect. But as long as this does not happen, I think some of the community, especially the ones who plays OP classes need an eye opener. And if being nerfed to the ground is what it needs to take, then it is what it needs to take...



You don't even realize that these decisions weren't made with enough thought and they were implemented because they'red "planning" on making changes in the future. How anyone can even support ruining a full branch of a class is beyond me. The only reason they're doing this is because they want to protect their precious Wa gear.

I don't quite get what you are saying here. If you would try to write your comment without flaming me then I would reply to you in a normal manner. Try to read properly everything I wrote, and try to make a comment without flaming people than come here and talk to me...

Once again, I am not supporting Ankama in nerfing classes!!

There. See the bold part, in case you miss my whole point!!


Community Manager * Member Since 2013-07-08
posté February 07, 2014, 21:36:52 | #357
The changelog has now been updated, changes may still be done before the update on February 11th.


Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-08-28
posté February 07, 2014, 21:40:44 | #358

Quote (TommyTrouble @ 07 February 2014 21:17) *
You'd think if the spell is only going to damage 3x a turn, you could at least expect a buff to the base damage.

But oh no, not in Ankama's world.

Thanks for having us all forced into metaphorical carnal relations with the family dog. Your overly difficult, highly resistant stuff is going to take even longer to kill than before. Thanks for nothing, Ankama. Instead of nerfing 2 branches of a class that can sometimes stand up to endgame content, you could have buffed other classes that lagged behind. But oh no- you just had to screw the pooch.

This.

Sabi please any news on Black Wabbit Costume??


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-11-20
posté February 07, 2014, 23:27:00 | #359
If I could sum up the February update, it would be this:

"We won't be bringing you the PP Lock and Drop Rate Revamp this month. Nothing rings in the new year like incomplete changes and broken promises, don't you know! Indeed, we have decided to make things considerably more difficult for you players out there! Firstly, we have nerfed the chances of dropping a Relic Fragment via your Multimen. No longer will they roll for items you missed; now you will need to contend with the chance that the Relic Fragment will be divided for a roll on a Multiman, who still does not benefit from Equipment PP Bonuses, nor Candy, nor Guild or Nation or Area Bonuses.

Since the Relic Fragment change, our dedicated team has taken extreme pleasure in ignoring the obvious problems dropping fragments from both normal mobs and bosses! Kya, Missiz Freezz, we are looking at you dear! Due to the enormous difficulty of checking our code to make sure Relic fragments drop at the same rate as Tarrouded Leather, we want the community to know: Nothing is going to change!

Furthermore, to compliment our desire for your suffering, we have decided to reduce the damage and options of the Rogue class. We hope you have many slow battles, and we anticipate the many deaths in Freeze and the Wabbit Island content! After further discussions we have also decided even these greatly reduced firewalls will not be adjusted to be of assistance against Ice Cracklers.

In conclusion, while we hear and appreciate your feedback, we will decline to address the torrents of concern over glitches, non-viable spell branches and errors on our other classes, and we anticipate further cutbacks in communication and revamps as we move forward. Don't forget: we promised a Letter to the Community every month, and explanations on Multimen Nerfs and the Delay of the PP Revamp. Other abandoned methods of communication include the Wakfu Magazine, Ankama On Air, Ankama Office, our Twitch account, and the Dev Q&A Sessions! Extra effort has also recently been made to isolate Sabi and keep her too busy to communicate with the Community, as well as send Troyle so far away that you'll probably only ever see him again in fond memories! As you can see we don't often follow through with what you need, and we anticipate much more reasons for you to lose hope in the coming months!"


This post has been edited by TommyTrouble - February 07, 2014, 23:54:43.
Reason for edit : additional snark required, sadly
Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté February 08, 2014, 00:46:21 | #360

Quote
Crafty Elf Costume: It will become tradable.
OH hey, actually not a bad change!

But tommy's last paragraph kinda summed it up for me