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Experience Curve

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Community Manager * Member Since 2013-07-08
posté November 22, 2013, 18:38:13 | #1
Experience Curve Please post in this topic to share your feedback about the last modifications to the experience curve.

We would like you to play normally, and compare with your usual experience on the public servers.

Note that the whole experience system has been modified, including the experience calculated when killing monsters. We also included the new combat challenges feature.

Don’t hesitate to let us know you overall feeling of these features.

If you encountered any bugs, please use this section: Click here 


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2013-10-13
posté November 24, 2013, 18:36:24 | #2
Hello there,

Having tested on the betagrid, I have experienced a 'really big problem' with the new experience curve they want to implement.

Apparantly, rewarded experience at the end of a fight now looks at the total level of all players contributing to the fight. This means that if you have say a lvl 12 character and a lvl 67 character in a group, in order for any of the people in the party to receive XP, you'll need to be fighting a collective level of monsters close to lvl 79. Deviate too much from this number, and again no one will receive any experience - (I don't know how big the falloff is, perhaps 20 levels?)

I keep pulling new people into the game, and enjoy running around with them to teach them the game. Unfortunately this game does not let me downlevel, so I'm often stuck kind of tutoring and skipping turns while making my friends learn their thing. With this new mechanic I cannot help my friends anymore unless I pull them along into higher level content, forcing them to sit and leech XP in a corner.

I'm also generally worried about doing dungeon runs now, although I must confess I have not tried this yet. Does this mean that throughout a dungeon you might experience a severe problem at the beginning or end with experience if your group does not have 'the perfect level' amongst its players?



This is incredibly concerning to me - These extreme measures to try and balance out a fight will dissallow me to play in a practical way with new players I introduce to the game. Implement a downlevel system or revise this idea completely imho.


This post has been edited by Sheni - November 24, 2013, 18:36:36.
Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2013-05-28
posté November 25, 2013, 00:39:25 | #3
I did intensive testing of the reward system, it has some good and some bad parts, but it definatly needs some modification.

Xp gained is currently based off the group level vs the opponents group level, to the point where if you are about 50 levels above the opponents group when no one will get xp.

This is problematic as it means that if you have a group of 6 people you have to fight groups that are stronger than you to gain any xp at all, also since groups that size are rare, people will need to kick players to fight different size groups.
Enemies are stronger than players in the level 100+ areas, a single level 110 ice crackler is more than enough challenge for 2 people of similar level. Most players would be unable to fight them on equal terms and the same goes for wabbits, lenalds and mechas.

If Multimen dont alter the group xp level then playing solo will be the best option to level, and that would be terribly bad for your supposedly multiplayer game.

Now for the good, it also works individually, so it is now impossible to power level like before.

By individually i mean if a level 100 and a level 50 fight a level 100 enemy then the 100 would be the only one who gets xp, unfortunately the group system conflicts with this and also causes the 100 to get no xp.

I recommend that you keep the individual level based calculations and remove the group level based portion, so people are rewarded for co operation.


Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2011-07-24
posté November 25, 2013, 07:54:43 | #4
Maybe I did not understand the whole system to the end. But I do not see any plus for players. If you play solo, then the process of gaining experience has not changed. If you play in a party, all exactly as described Sheni... yah no speed dialing experience for low levels. (It's bad)

+ / - Challenge (despite the French), I win some of them ... honestly? I do not see any benefit from them. In Dofuse they give average +40+150% bonus for exp. and loot in Wakfu it's give only +25 wisdom and PP.


...dear dev, this system real isn't good, Please, think it over before you enter on the main server.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2011-07-19
posté November 25, 2013, 09:18:46 | #5
I'd like to see combat challenges somewhat similar to almanax rewards: win challenge to get buff for the next fight (wis / pp / +dmg +heal / +crit / etc.) or gain some item drop. Well, anything more interesting than just +25pp +25wis.

Some challenges show reward of +0pp +0wis (i notice this when fight end, and a reward window is showing): backstab challenge and one other.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2013-02-08
posté November 25, 2013, 09:23:27 | #6

Quote (milordDen @ 25 November 2013 07:54) *
+ / - Challenge (despite the French), I win some of them ... honestly? I do not see any benefit from them. In Dofuse they give average +40+150% bonus for exp. and loot in Wakfu it's give only +25 wisdom and PP.
Actually, I had 2 challenges at once - one providing 55% and one providing 80%. If Im not mistaken, thats 135% final and not 25%.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté November 25, 2013, 13:00:15 | #7
I didn't get exp for fighting a black wabbit mob of size 5.

I had 6 players (4 x 140, 2x 130 = 820).

This cap would make it tedious to bring high level players to exp grinds and dropgrinding as no one gets exp and you are either forced to take on huge mobs for exp or no mobs at all.


With a combined level of 820(4Level 140, 2 Level 130), there isn't a non-dungeon wabbit mob that can be killed for exp.  


Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2011-07-24
posté November 25, 2013, 14:52:36 | #8
.........but i forget one BIG PLUS!!! I need less exp for lvl up!! that's good =)))) I like only that


Community Helper * Member Since 2005-08-28
posté November 25, 2013, 15:16:57 | #9

Quote (Sabi @ 22 November 2013 18:38) *
Please post in this topic to share your feedback about the last modifications to the experience curve.

We would like you to play normally, and compare with your usual experience on the public servers.

Note that the whole experience system has been modified, including the experience calculated when killing monsters. We also included the new combat challenges feature.
Please could you tell us how you have modified the exp curve and the whole experience system so that we can use it properly. I am not necessary asking for the mathematical formula which would be nice but even a simply overall of the new modification . I think we also understand its a beta system so its likely going to change for final release anyway.

For example before Ankama release information on what monsters drop the Whisper BP no one really knew, I know like a silly person it turns out I had been fighting the wrong monster for months.

Also there seems to be some exp bugs and I know many people have solo-ed mobs around level 100 and received zero exp and people have assumed they need to fight mobs within a +/- 10 levels from their group/character level.

I love the current exp system Wakfu has perhaps the exp curve is a little steep above level 110 but that's my only problem with is.


This post has been edited by JerryDB - November 25, 2013, 16:03:12.
Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2010-08-16
posté November 25, 2013, 21:30:45 | #10
Hey, it says that i cant "access the current beta test" Is anyone else having this problem  


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2011-11-29
posté November 26, 2013, 08:14:23 | #11
Maybe they closed the beta earlier like they started later?

I'd really be interested how the xp is calculated now too.
The first test I did was against 2 brrblis.
I had level 125 and they a combined level of 156 (or each 78).
On the normal server I got around 400k xp and at the beta only 90k.
What is it that lowers the the xp gain now so drastically?
The level of the single brrbli that is lower than me or the group level that is the huge amount of 31 higher than mine?

The lowered xp curve might be nice. But If we can't get at least 2/3 of the previous xp it's worse than before.

And then areas where you get 0 xp...
Makes doing anything out of your level area really senseless.
But then you have to farm so much garbage to craft equipment or similar things at other places.

Please rethink this. You have still 3 weeks.


This post has been edited by spacecooky - November 26, 2013, 08:17:42.
Lead Community Manager * Member Since 2012-02-28
posté November 29, 2013, 15:16:59 | #12
Please note that the experience curve has been modified with today's update.

Please try it again and share your feedback.

Thanks!


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2011-06-29
posté November 29, 2013, 18:26:26 | #13
Could you maybe explain the thought process and goals for the changing of EXP gains and requirements per level at some point? It's hard to really see what you're even trying to do here by changing these things.

The lowered XP amount to level is roughly evened out by the fact that you're also gaining about 2/5ths of the EXP you were earning before. If you fail the in-battle challenge, you get less XP than before; if you make it, you will get about the same or slightly more (depends on the challenge and how much it was worth). Area challenges seem to be offering slightly less, but more than before taking into account the changes, meaning it's even more worth it to complete them as they pop up.

Seems then that it's mostly about limiting the usefulness of wisdom since it's a percentage buff that is accordingly lowered in how much it's giving you, but was wisdom really a big problem before? I was not aware of it being an issue.

At any rate, you can again earn EXP by killing lower-level mobs of more than 10-20 levels or whatever the problem was before, which is good. Hopefully that was just a bug and not something that was seriously being considered.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2012-02-11
posté November 30, 2013, 07:24:30 | #14
Ive been messing with the xp curve and ive noticed i dont get alot of xp from things i use to get idk 200kk from like a group of monks or something. Like others have said it seems i get the best amount when my group level is near that of the mob im fighting which has always sorta been the way it goes i guess but now its just feels alot more restrictive in it makes it so you cant just fight things but actually have to be careful or you could get nothing which is something im not a fan of. Im not saying give us a ton of xp but we should get something for killing things below our level at least. Im still testing different groupings to see the best result.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2013-04-04
posté November 30, 2013, 20:17:51 | #15
Me at lvl. 111 together with a lvl. 22 shadow fighting a lvl. 141 group of 3 lvl. 47 Aggressive Gobbals earns me 0 EP...
The same without the shadow...
On the non beta server the same fight gives me 77.000 EP

This can't be for real...

77k EP isn't much for a lvl. 111 char, but at least it's something...

Why do you even reduce the EP gained depending on lvl.? Because of power leveling? Or is there some other reason?
(BTW: Who gets hurt by power leveling anyway? I don't get what's bad about it. Can someone explain to me?)


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2011-05-12
posté November 30, 2013, 20:26:00 | #16
Experience Curve
I'm happy about the experience requirement per level being cut down, that was really needed to reduce the grindy feel this game has. BUT I notice I get a substantial amount less than I was per fight. Used to get 400,000 per fight now am getting 40,000. that is a 90% reduction and is unacceptable!!

Soloing large groups of monsters seems to have taking a major hit also, giving hugely reduced experience or more often none at all.

Killing groups that I used to kill, such as 2 boo wolves gives very little experience even though the group level was within 20 levels of mine (124 group, 114 me). As a healer Sadida I do very terrible damage so I cannot solo things of my own level.

I also noticed that groups of 3 totaling ~120 were giving me 0 experience which is again frustrating for a non damage dealing class.

Challenge System
I hate the challenge system for a multitude of reasons mostly being that this game tries so hard to not be dofus or use dofus mechanics (such as creating the terrible heal resistance) but they bring over one of the worst mechanics.

Wisdom and Prospecting Caps
The 150 pp and wis cap wouldn't be a bad thing if:
1. you didnt feel like you need tons of wisdom because of how hard the xp grind is.
2. you didn't feel like you need tons of pp because of how hard the item grind is.

The way wisdom SHOULD work is when leveling a second or third character you put wisdom gear on them to help out with the amount of time it will take to level them which would make 1.5 normal experience gain fine, hell I'd be fine with a 100 wis cap, double xp would be great. But wisdom gear should be scarce or BOA so that your first character couldn't start off wearing it.

The drop rates being so low make the practice of stacking full wisdom and rushing/leeching max level the best since it takes so long to drop anything.

See the problem? a .01% drop rate being standard is nothing more than a time sink, hell most of the time I'm playing I out level the gear I'm grinding for before I drop it.

The entire drop system is pretty terrible and they promised us a rework of it not a hard cap which does nothing to fix the problems players are facing.

/grind
 


This post has been edited by Loneith - December 03, 2013, 10:32:24.
Reason for edit : tldr
Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2012-03-08
posté December 01, 2013, 15:05:01 | #17
if the problem is powerlevelling i think that have no exp in a fight with high lv char and low lv monster is a nonsense, is more useful the opposite: low lv char have no exp with high lv mob, that will destroy leeching


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2010-09-18
posté December 02, 2013, 17:50:23 | #18
Im rather confused as to the point in the new xp system. with a character under level 10 I would fight a piwi, or group of piwis to either get very little or no xp. Most piwis are level 4 and about the only thing you can find that won't kill you at that level. I actually made it to level 8 and only had one elemental spell unlocked because the only xp I seemed to get was from quests. I don't really know whats going on with the new xp system, or how its supposed to work. Just whatever you do don't implement this. One of the nice things about the current system is a new player can get to about level 20 without any problem, now....well I was grinding just to hit ten. grinding quests that is, because I can't find any mobs that will give me xp.


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2011-10-04
posté December 03, 2013, 10:22:49 | #19
It's awful. This whole group-level-thing doesn't work.

I'm a level 100 trapper and if i plant a seed i can't influence how many mobs it will be (although, in some corners of the map, the chances to get a big/small group is higher). Even if i would spent minutes after each fight to try to plant another group of my wished size - in the end the area would be crowded with too small and too big groups of enemies, while my group falls asleep. Or fight all the "their group-level-is-too-low/high"-groups, just because i don't want everybody to wait that long after each fight.


This post has been edited by Elithril - December 03, 2013, 12:08:49.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-05-01
posté December 03, 2013, 16:21:11 | #20
I really hope you guys get the group XP thing worked out on the Beta server before it goes live. There's a lot of concern ingame that you won't be able to pull through again, and we will end up with a live version giving us zero XP in a wide range of sub-perfect fights.


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