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SRAM v2.0
Producer & Lead Game Designer * Member Since 2009-09-18
posté July 19, 2014, 13:41:28 | #1
SRAM v2.0 Hello,

thank you for using this topic to make us your feedback on the "new" Sram.

Aza. 


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2012-01-06
posté July 19, 2014, 18:10:05 | #2
Thank you for this wonderful revamp on the Sram! Though not perfect to my personal taste yet, this is looking like a really good revamp so far, thank you!


Here are a few points I want to reflect on:
-----

[Guile]
I think I personally prefered the old version, but I am not entirely sure yet. Would it be possible to have Sram Reflex reduce it by one AP perhaps?


[Stabber]
I personally do not like this active in its current state since it does not provide enough utility for an active skill (It effectively feels incredibly boring and uninteractive and should have just stayed a passive).
To make it stand more on its own as a utility skill, perhaps it could combine the old 'spin around' effect from Look Around You, and have it return a wakfu upon dealing a successful critical hit when backstabbing (One max per turn while under the effect of Stabber). The cost could go up slightly of course.


[Scram]
Ouch, quite a hit in its effectiveness and cost here, and why let it buff an ally's movement when at the same time Water does not allow to have its Booty Pool be shared amongst allies?
I'd much rather prefer an antisocial Scram be a lot more interesting or more allround focus on support (through Water) so the current Scram does not feel misplaced.In fact, let Scram be the spell that simply moves over the full Booty Pool (Instead of +2 MP and no-lock) when used on an Ally and have it refund the Wakfu. It would still fit the name/theme as well, since MP, Dodge and a damage bump would be given.


[Double]
I'm not fond of the spell selection that was given to the Double and prefered its original versality. Please consider giving it a movement related ability as well at least.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2011-05-28
posté July 19, 2014, 22:24:39 | #3
We have no ability to get an enemies behind if they are on the wall. no look around you ,no diversion i believe we should still have something that helps us attain the backs of our enemies especially if they are hugging a wall.

Guile- Its too costly id prefer 2 MP then 3 ap 1 mp

Double- It reduces our gameplay to a restrictive set of spells if its our double shouldn't it have all of our spells and can't move anywhere

Scram- I don't know what do really say since we have ranged attacks, nerf in mp is ok but it could be a bit more. and the ap makes it less of a utility but the reduction in cost of spells for fire may make that ok.

Traps- They don't take into account our Damage % but overall are great

Fire sram- base damage seems to be reduced but perhaps the new spells and abilities shall over look it, our strongest move is close to weaker moves in terms of damage i think it should be looked over

stabber- i preferred that it gives us our natural bonus in damage instead of being a costly 1 wp for 15 final damage its just not worth it

Sram to the bone- 20 Seems a bit too costly but i don't even know what tackle means so ill have more on that later xD

tricky blow- it doesn't push us away from target i think that ability should still stay

Sramulous -imo is useless in terms of what stabbers passive used to be and what does a sram need lock for xD we are trying to get away i think so much lock is defeating the purpose XD

Sram Reflex-srams are squishy and reflex kept us alive alive perhaps some ability that helps us stay alive if not reflex something else evasive besides massive amounts of dodge

i think it could still use a lot of work double definitely needs work imo

water sram spells i don't know since its in french but there seems to be some inconsistencies with damage being stolen and since water sram is a healing class i think they should still have the ability to heal themselves more so than what they can.

i think it could still use a lot of work double definitely needs work imo


This post has been edited by Ruein - July 19, 2014, 22:50:22.
Reason for edit : Adding things
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2012-02-11
posté July 19, 2014, 23:03:11 | #4
I still cannot create new characters on the beta server. I can use the characters i currently have but i have no options to create a new one.


Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2013-01-18
posté July 20, 2014, 00:00:29 | #5
I'm a water sram and I feel like what would have been an interesting change, in fact felt like a colossal nerf.

It would make sense to give a support class a little survivability, but I was unable to take a sram of any other element. I was dead in 2-3 turns. (Keeping in mind I only used the gear the almanax machine had to offer, but even against other srams using the same gear, I couldn't win.)

Here is some feedback.

WATER SPELLS
- Simply do not deal enough damage.
- Water TRAPS: Stealing 4 AP is great. However, it would cost me about 6 AP total and 2 Control to set out 2 traps, which is most of my turn. If a mob steps on a trap, also depends on chance. There is a chance nobody will step on the trap. I also am unable to treat the AP as loot. I agree that having 4 extra usable AP might be overpowered, but I also think the changes are unfair to water srams. We can also steal our own AP by stepping on our own trap, I think that's pretty dumb.
- Bloody Ripoff: Is exactly what it says. A bloody ripoff. If we ignore Kleptosram, somehow Bloody Ripoff seems to be the move that deals the most damage in one hit ONLY IF you manage to stack enough Weakness. Which so far, I haven't had enough time to. You can only use it once per turn and the heal is so weak (even coupled with damage booty) that it's barely even worth using even if you have 100 Weakness. This is what makes me have next to zero survivability anymore.
- Swindlesram: Spell only useful for setting traps. What is "Tackle and Dodge"?
- Sramshackle: This spell appears to work properly, however if you're not looking in game log but on the character menu (when you right click your character), it says that I have only gained 66% damage on a 3 stack booty.
- Kleptosram: Haven't really tried this one simply because it seems useless. Stealing MP for 5 AP (10 AP if you use it twice) seems kind of dumb when you can just use the air trap spell to teleport. I'm not too sure how much MP you can steal. With scram and teleport, this move may very much be useless other than the fact that it deals the most damage.
- Petty Theft: This spell seems to be working properly, however again, it will say I've only removed -66% of damage in the character menu despite having 3 stacks of damage booty.

I'd like to note that DESPITE gaining and stealing damage, my damage still sucks, and I still get dealt great damage after stealing damage. Therefore these spells, including the heal spell, aren't good enough to win-- Against anything. Water sram requires some great balancing, imo.

AIR SPELLS:
Air TRAPS: I love them. Control requirement makes it so I have to rethink my gear, however. How inconvenient.
Tricky blow: Like stated above, I think this move should still push you away from the target. If a mob is stuck up against a wall with you, you literally have no way to get away unless you use the costly air trap teleport spell. Some builds may not have the control required to get away in one turn.
Guile: I have a huge problem with the guile nerf. We now have no spell to turn a mob around, and I've continuously had trouble getting backstab while testing the new sram. I refuse to use guile now because it is too costly, wasting 3 AP when I already have crappy damage to begin with. It should either stay how it is, or make it a 2 MP 0 AP move like suggested before.
Fear: Love it. It was confusing at first though.

AIR SRAMS: Deal too much damage to me. I was getting hit -700 HP per what I assume to be their strongest hit (and could hit me 2 times with it per turn) plus other moves. My damage to them was a measly -400 to -500 in comparison. (But they did have relics so I'm not too sure about this one.)
FIRE SRAMS: The hemorrhage is really OP. Like it is SERIOUSLY strong. At the end of every battle (which were only about 3-5 turns, I was receiving over -700 HP damage per turn from hemorrhage alone. 200 Hemorrhage deals about -1,200 HP in damage. No way of winning against a fire sram.

SPECIALTY SPELLS:
Shadow trap: Love traps. I just don't think it makes sense to lose AP for stepping on my own water trap. Fix that. They also do not take into account damage % (as someone else said.) I said more about traps above, so let's move on.
Scram: This spell costs 2 AP and 2 WP, and only gives you +2 MP. Maybe you thought we don't need MP because we have range or can teleport, but you are wrong. The teleportation in total is 6 AP total, and we can only move within 6 squares +whatever MP we have left over, which is about the same distance as old scram. The AP itself to teleport consumes almost an entire turn, then the mob can just move again or attack you at that point. This isn't a very fair trade-off. If you decide to nerf something, you should really balance it out with something else. Scram is now a very useless spell. The nerf was too strong. If you plan to keep this spell, make it a little better. I don't think it should cost any AP at the LEAST, and spending 2 WP for 2 MP is really not worth it, lol. You need to buff it.
Stabber: I don't have too much to say about this one. I just find it kind of dumb. I don't really feel too strongly about it to even comment on it. Which means you might want to think of something better.
Double: I agree that double needs some more flexibility it terms of getting around the map. They don't really seem to do anything cool except for deal some extra damage, like before. They have more survivability now, but it looks like they can't get anywhere. And if they can't get anywhere, they're useless. The fact that they can lock is interesting though, but I don't feel strongly enough about it to care if it stays or goes.
Invisibility: I haven't tested it enough but I don't mind it, I guess. Other than the fact that costs a whopping 2 WP. Also, is it REALLY necessary to have the ability to make an enemy/mob invisible? This seems useless and only gives leeway for users to mess with their teammates.

PASSIVES:
- Sramulous: I also agree with above. The lock is weird.
- Sram reflex: The question is, do we still have reflex? If not, you should probably put it back. If this passive was supposed to be applied when the sram reflexes, then it's obviously not working right now as we don't reflex. As a sram, we probably already have a lot of dodge if we pick our gear correctly, so I'm not too sure how useful it is to gain more dodge. Keeping the +1 MP gain seems fine. If we have the chance to reflex the same as before, then you might want to put a limit on how much control we can get. Either way, if we can't reflex, srams have little survivability. So it should stay, hopefully without a significant nerf. (To those who say it's OP are wrong, because reflex doesn't work as much as they think it does.)
- Sram to the Bone: Again, what is tackle? "Tackle and Dodge" don't even appear to be working.

OTHER THINGS:
- Look Around You: Put this back, or something of reliable equivalency. It seriously does not make sense to have a backstab class with no ability to get at a back unless you waste 3 AP or risk getting locked. What's worse is if someone is hugging a wall. It just doesn't make sense to make getting a back impossible in this situation, especially considering what Dragons can do.

- This is only in Beta, and hasn't been integrated into the actual game yet, but I really hope it doesn't: Stepping in certain places displays red squares where you lose MP if you step there. I haven't played enough to know why this is, if it's related to lock/dodge, but it's stupid considering I'm a backstab class. A backstab class with no ability to get a back, without, again, wasting 3 AP (even more AP by teleporting)/risking getting locked, and no ability to turn a mob around. I found that I could walk around an enemy, but lose all my MP by stepping onto a red square before I could even reach the back. I would have to waste 2 AP and 2 WP to scram and get the back. It's not worth it. Please change it.

- We don't crit atm.

- Are we ACTUALLY a backstab class anymore? I see some passives which increase % damage with backstab. But I still can gather weakness and loot if I hit an enemy from any angle. As a sram I still prefer the back as it deals more damage, and I am very keen on getting the back because of how I've played this class for so long. Are you eliminating this? Will getting backs actually mean anything to us anymore?

- HP booty might be interesting.

Hope this helps improve stuff. I'll add more if I think of it.


This post has been edited by Krysmeth - July 20, 2014, 21:12:56.
Reason for edit : Adding
Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-03-26
posté July 20, 2014, 01:31:49 | #6
I think the push should be nerfed to 2-3 tiles instead of 5 or cost increased since srams got scram too which gives mp and ignores lock.
Instead of portal trap think of something else like pushes enemy back or something.
Xelors already got portals and current srams do xelors job better and that aint right.
Stack less hemorrhage on ranged spell and more on single cell spell.
Kleptosram should have 1 WP cost.
Fear should have 1 WP cost.
Cold Blood should have 1 Wp cost.

Instead of MP booty how about HP booty. Like give HP to allies.
Since there's already Scram which gives mp to allies.


Quote (Krysmeth @ 20 July 2014 00:00) *
WATER SPELLS
- Simply do not deal enough damage.
- Water TRAPS: Stealing 4 AP is great. However, it would cost me about 9 AP total and 2 Control to set out 2 traps. As a 10 AP build, that leaves me with 1 AP leftover. If a mob steps on a trap, also depends on chance. There is a chance nobody will step on the trap. I also am unable to treat the AP as loot. I agree that having 4 extra usable AP might be overpowered, but I also think the changes are unfair to water srams. We can also steal our own AP by stepping on our own trap, I think that's pretty dumb.
- Bloody Ripoff: Is exactly what it says. A bloody ripoff. If we ignore Kleptosram, somehow Bloody Ripoff seems to be the move that deals the most damage in one hit ONLY IF you manage to stack enough Weakness. Which so far, I haven't had enough time to. You can only use it once per turn and the heal is so weak (even coupled with damage booty) that it's barely even worth using even if you have 100 Weakness. This is what makes me have next to zero survivability anymore.
- Swindlesram: Spell only useful for setting traps. What is "Tackle and Dodge"?
- Sramshackle: This spell appears to work properly, however if you're not looking in game log but on the character menu (when you right click your character), it says that I have only gained 66% damage on a 3 stack booty.
- Kleptosram: Haven't really tried this one simply because it seems useless. Stealing MP for 5 AP (10 AP if you use it twice) seems kind of dumb when you can just use the air trap spell to teleport. I'm not too sure how much MP you can steal. With scram and teleport, this move may very much be useless other than the fact that it deals the most damage.
- Petty Theft: This spell seems to be working properly, however again, it will say I've only removed -66% of damage in the character menu despite having 3 stacks of damage booty.

I'd like to note that DESPITE gaining and stealing damage, my damage still sucks, and I still get dealt great damage after stealing damage. Therefore these spells, including the heal spell, aren't good enough to win-- Against anything. Water sram requires some great balancing, imo.

AIR SPELLS:
Air TRAPS: I love them. Control requirement makes it so I have to rethink my gear, however. How inconvenient.
Tricky blow: Like stated above, I think this move should still push you away from the target. If a mob is stuck up against a wall with you, you literally have no way to get away unless you use the costly air trap teleport spell. Some builds may not have the control required to get away in one turn.
Guile: I have a huge problem with the guile nerf. We now have no spell to turn a mob around, and I've continuously had trouble getting backstab while testing the new sram. I refuse to use guile now because it is too costly, wasting 3 AP when I already have crappy damage to begin with. It should either stay how it is, or make it a 2 MP 0 AP move like suggested before.
Fear: Love it. It was confusing at first though.

AIR SRAMS: Deal too much damage to me. I was getting hit -700 HP per what I assume to be their strongest hit (and could hit me 2 times with it per turn) plus other moves. My damage to them was a measly -400 to -500 in comparison. (But they did have relics so I'm not too sure about this one.)
FIRE SRAMS: The hemorrhage is really OP. Like it is SERIOUSLY strong. At the end of every battle (which were only about 3-5 turns, I was receiving over -700 HP damage per turn from hemorrhage alone. 200 Hemorrhage deals about -1,200 HP in damage. No way of winning against a fire sram.

SPECIALTY SPELLS:
Shadow trap: Love traps. I just don't think it makes sense to lose AP for stepping on my own water trap. Fix that. They also do not take into account damage % (as someone else said.) I said more about traps above, so let's move on.
Scram: This spell costs 2 AP and 2 WP, and only gives you +2 MP. Maybe you thought we don't need MP because we have range or can teleport, but you are wrong. The teleportation in total is a costly 9 AP total, and we can only move within 6 squares +whatever MP we have left over, which is about the same distance as old scram. The AP itself to teleport consumes an entire turn, then the mob can just move again or attack you at that point. This isn't a very fair trade-off. If you decide to nerf something, you should really balance it out with something else. Scram is now a very useless spell. The nerf was too strong. If you plan to keep this spell, make it a little better. I don't think it should cost any AP at the LEAST, and spending 2 WP for 2 MP is really not worth it, lol. You need to buff it.
Stabber: I don't have too much to say about this one. I just find it kind of dumb. I don't really feel too strongly about it to even comment on it. Which means you might want to think of something better.
Double: I agree that double needs some more flexibility it terms of getting around the map. They don't really seem to do anything cool except for deal some extra damage, like before. They have more survivability now, but it looks like they can't get anywhere. And if they can't get anywhere, they're useless. The fact that they can lock is interesting though, but I don't feel strongly enough about it to care if it stays or goes.
Invisibility: I haven't tested it enough but I don't mind it, I guess. Other than the fact that costs a whopping 2 WP. Also, is it REALLY necessary to have the ability to make an enemy/mob invisible? This seems useless and only gives leeway for users to mess with their teammates.

PASSIVES:
- Sramulous: I also agree with above. The lock is weird.
- Sram reflex: The question is, do we still have reflex? If not, you should probably put it back. If this passive was supposed to be applied when the sram reflexes, then it's obviously not working right now as we don't reflex. As a sram, we probably already have a lot of dodge if we pick our gear correctly, so I'm not too sure how useful it is to gain more dodge. Keeping the +1 MP gain seems fine. If we have the chance to reflex the same as before, then you might want to put a limit on how much control we can get. Either way, if we can't reflex, srams have little survivability. So it should stay, hopefully without a significant nerf. (To those who say it's OP are wrong, because reflex doesn't work as much as they think it does.)
- Sram to the Bone: Again, what is tackle? "Tackle and Dodge" don't even appear to be working.

OTHER THINGS:
- Look Around You: Put this back, or something of reliable equivalency. It seriously does not make sense to have a backstab class with no ability to get at a back unless you waste 3 AP or risk getting locked. What's worse is if someone is hugging a wall. It just doesn't make sense to make getting a back impossible in this situation, especially considering what Dragons can do.

- This is only in Beta, and hasn't been integrated into the actual game yet, but I really hope it doesn't: Stepping in certain places displays red squares where you lose MP if you step there. I haven't played enough to know why this is, if it's related to lock/dodge, but it's stupid considering I'm a backstab class. A backstab class with no ability to get a back, without, again, wasting 3 AP (even more AP by teleporting)/risking getting locked, and no ability to turn a mob around. I found that I could walk around an enemy, but lose all my MP by stepping onto a red square before I could even reach the back. I would have to waste 2 AP and 2 WP to scram and get the back. It's not worth it. Please change it.

- We don't crit atm.

- Are we ACTUALLY a backstab class anymore? I see some passives which increase % damage with backstab. But I still can gather weakness and loot if I hit an enemy from any angle. As a sram I still prefer the back as it deals more damage, and I am very keen on getting the back because of how I've played this class for so long. Are you eliminating this? Will getting backs actually mean anything to us anymore?

- HP booty might be interesting.

Hope this helps improve stuff. I'll add more if I think of it.

Traps are fine. It's like a tiring technique a.k.a support.

Tackle and dodge == lock and dodge. It's fine if you want to give your ally more lock or double. Or to yourself which increases CH.

Did you even look at the dmg numbers on kleptosram? That's almost like spittoon only ~20 less.

Guile has dmg and you get behind enemy. I don't see a problem here.

I agree on hemorrhage it's op. It needs to stack less and maxinum amount needs to be less.


This post has been edited by MereBytes - July 20, 2014, 10:29:41.
Ambitious Crackapult * Member Since 2013-02-17
posté July 20, 2014, 11:05:14 | #7
Traps??
Just two words:
THANK YOU!


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-02-05
posté July 20, 2014, 11:18:55 | #8
Thus far i'm really enjoying what Ankama's done with the class, its a large improvement. Here is my feedback:

Overal:
I understand you wanted to give the sram range and at the same time reuse as many animations that you can but the animations don't "feel good" with the range. Sram has 3 roles, the fire executioner, the water thief/supporter and the air backstabbing positioner.

I really miss 3 things near the HP heart, one pouch with what you stole, one effect of your traps and lastly your weakness level. Its especially confusing that you have to look at your already full status bar with what you want to take again.

Fire, the executioner:
  • The animation of the first spell (executioner) is lacking for the damage it does
  • The fire scythe animation first better with the effects of the first spell, you execute someone with a scythe,
  • the chained dagger animation looks better with spells that have range, perhaps you can switch the 2 animations?
  • If you want to use daggers for ranged attacks as you currently do i suggest adding some blood lines or make the current lines a lot more visible.
  • The healing limit of 1000HP is nice in the beginning but will be very annoying later in the game as our hp keeps rising, i suggest capping it on XX% of your HP
  • I don't see the point of first blood not giving hemorrhage
  • Bled dry is to powerful with that range and special effect while i find first blood and torment not tempting enough to use

Water, the thief:
  • Sramshackle has way to much range (and animation doesn't fit with it)
  • Animations feel all the same, bloody ripoff should have a special animation as thats the "special attack"
  • Lowering the dmg with 250% at lvling 200 is to much.
  • at 140 i can lower the dmg of a mob with 120% every turn, is way to powerful, can you add a condition like "Can only be cast on the same player/monster every 2 turns"
  • I think sramshackle should not have that aoe, swidlesram and kleptosram to weak compared to it
  • Water trap should give hyperactive like al AP remove spells
Air, the backstabbing positioner
  • Fear has a to high range, you should make it like air sacs with range increasing with the level. Now low level players can abuse it with sramshackle
  • Overal i miss the bonus backstab dmg here
  • Forceful blow should have its animation changed as it now hits 3 cells, trowing dagger is better
  • The teleport trap is to powerful, it should have a penalty somehow
  • Teleport should also have a marker when it will teleport (to show that the 2 traps are connected)
  • Trauma's animation shockwave doesn't feel right with its current range, can you change it to a smaller one?
  • Casting tricky blow in the air doesn't push you anymore, either change the decryption or fix the bug
  • Nothing states that there is a cap of placing 2 air glyphs on the field, water and fire can be places according to control
Passives
  • It is unclear what "Off-play" means, i think you mean "when you don't deal dmg the next turn" as i become invisible even as i lay traps 2 turns. It would be much simpler if you just change the effect to "become invisible for 1 turn" and remove the whole dmg thing
  • Crit doesn't show in your stats
  • I like that dodge and lock give crit, its a nice passive
As i said before, you did a wonderful job with the class and I'm looking forward to the next test!


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2012-04-14
posté July 22, 2014, 13:27:05 | #9
I've not fully explored the new sram yet though what I have seen I've liked so far. However I'm not entirely sure why you're throwing every stat under the sun at it i.e. passives. They get initiative, control, crit, backstab damage, dodge and lock? Not to mention the + final damage.

Dodge, bs dmg and control make sense in my mind, and crits are always nice though everything else feels a tinsy bit weird.


I understand this is a really rough version of the sram but I did notice the traps are buggy. Teleport doesn't always work, stepping on it makes it disappear without activating. Also this:



After casting invis> bled dry > shadow trap this happened, several times. It has stacked the pointer animation and appears outside the fight.

(((Please fix this before it gets in the main game. The stacking iop animation was bad enough xD)))


Game Designer * Member Since 2011-04-29
posté July 22, 2014, 18:23:11 | #10
Hi everyone, here are the changes we made about the Sram. Enjoy !

General : Balancing spell’s damages

Guile :
  • It no longer does damages to allies
  • Change the limitation to 1/target (1/turn before)
  • Increases Weakness generation (+5)

Fear :
  • It no longer does damages to allies if the Sram is Invisible
  • Limitation to 2/target

Bloody Ripoff :
  • When Weakness is triggered, there will only be one higher damage proc (instead of 2-3).
  • Heal modification : now it depends on Weakness state level ([1+0,03*lvlspell] Hp for 1 of Weakness)

Kleptosram : Increase Weakness generation (+5)

Petty Theft :
  • MP loss will trigger hypermovement state
  • Refunds AP cost of the spell when cast on the Sram

Execution :
  • When Weakness is triggered, there will only be one higher damage proc (instead of 2-3).
  • The spell no longer trigger a third line of damages

First Blood :
  • Limitation to 2/turn
  • Reduces Weakness generation (-5)

Torment : Increases Weakness generation (+5)

Cold Blood :
  • Increases the Heal : 6 HP for 1 level of Hemorrhage (5 before)
  • The sram get Healed even if the target die

Traumatisme : When Weakness is triggered, there will only be one higher damage proc (instead of 2-3).

Tricky Blow :
  • It no longer does damages to allies
  • Limitation to 1/target

Forceful Blow :
  • There is no longer the limitation of 2/turn
  • Reduces Weakness generation (-5)

Fear (Double) : Limitation to 2/target

Chakra (Double) : The spell now provide an Armor Buff based on 100% of double’s max Hps. (it still give lock bonus)

Double :
  • Double’s HPs are now based on Sram max HPs (actuals HPs before)
  • The description indicates AP and MP of the Double

Stabber : Bonus is working properly when the target is backstabbed

Sramystical : Increases Weakness generation at max level (+5 now, +4 before)

Sram to the bone :
  • Bonuses are now active when you start a fight
  • The description indicates CC max cap (20%)

Traps :
  • The description now indicates if the trap is visible by ennemies or not
  • Monsters should no longer avoid trap paths
  • Traps now use %Damage, %CMC, Range and AOE %Damage (Single Target for the air one) of the Sram.
  • Swindlesram, Bled Dry and Tricky Blow apply respectively Silent, Laceration and Misty at the spell level. Trap’s level when casted on the battlefield depends on the level of the state applied by the spell. (so it depends on the spell level)

Trap of Silence : AP loss will trigger hyperaction state

Hemorrhage : HP loss no longer trigger Block

Invisibility :
  • Property "Can no longer be locked" is replaced by "Can no longer lock"
  • Target has +30% final Dodge
  • Apply the state « Revealed » on the target during 3 turns. It forbidden to be the target of Invisibily for his entire duration.
  • Launching the spell is restricted to fighters (Monsters, Players, MM and Summons)
  • The arrow that point the Invisible player no longer stay the entire fight



Ambitious Crackapult * Member Since 2011-12-01
posté July 23, 2014, 02:36:58 | #11
No words to how happy all this looks [3xited].

Of course a bit sad on the "cannot be locked" on invisibility being removed, but it was a bit over powered and thanks for the +30% final dodge to at least make up for that.



- Kat


Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-03-26
posté July 23, 2014, 12:32:27 | #12
It's still too easy to abuse Hemorrhage. Also max hemorrhage you can stack needs to be less (200 max maybe).
Just 2/per target with fear is better but still not going to solve the actual problem "the push range is too far" and combined with scram nothing except ranged attacks can get to sram.
Fear cost is too low.
I think Scram shouldn't give +2 mp.


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2012-01-06
posté July 23, 2014, 13:02:12 | #13
Maxed out invisibility should really last one turn longer than it does now. I understand the desire for invisibility to not be abused as a 'catch-me-then-if-you-can' mechanic', but in its current state the whole ruse of being hidden loses its touch a bit when everything just boils down to a fast-paced skirmish frenzy.


This post has been edited by VoidSettler - July 23, 2014, 13:02:40.
Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté July 23, 2014, 21:35:13 | #14
Longtime Sram player here. With each "revamp" of the class, I've grown more and more disappointed with the overall playstyle. I will provide my feedback here, but please do not think that it will be positive. For starters;

First version of Sram (post-launch), the biggest issues with the class were;
  • Unpredictability of Invis/Perception. Will it break? Will I get locked? Why do all these mobs have more perc than me?
  • Stagnation of elemental builds: Fire/Water could not really use invis unless they got Shadow Master maxed. Even then it was far more limited and decreased their potential by having to spend the 100 skill points into a talent just to keep up with air.
  • Some pretty useless active/passives: Shadow traps were worthless. Sram to the bone was by association also worthless. Invis was too expensive. Stabber took an entire fight of perfect play in order to max stacks. LAY was unreliable, and Diversion was unreliable AND had a cost.
  • Guile was too punishing; indefinite stacking of -25% final damage for each usage. Catching up to an enemy often meant you would be hitting them with a foam bat as a consequence.
  • Fire was boring to use, and hemo was weak/1-dimensional.
  • Water is too "all over the place" in regards of buffs/debuffs. There were only 3 skills worth using in the tree, and one of them (+MP) was redundant to use.
  • Damage was always the best when you used Trauma, in all situations no matter what. So everyone just used Trauma, and built for double-trauma.

Second version of Sram (first revamp), there was a lot of hope with the changes, but ultimately it was ill thought out;
  • Invis was now a skill that you invested 95 skill points into in order to nerf yourself. You want me to pay you WP to decrease my damage by 50%?
  • Guile still sucked; -50% final damage cap! YAY now I can catch up to the enemy AND only reduce my damage by... shit. And if you were invis too? Ha.
  • Perception is gone! Hooray! Crap, why do I keep getting locked at 95% dodge chance? More like 50% chance AMIRITE?
  • Fire was still stagnant and boring.
  • Water was still all over the place.
  • Air still depended on Double Trauma.
  • Fire/Water still didn't have a reason to stealth.
Now, reviewing yet again the changes made for the *third* revamp of Sram, I've arrived at the following criticisms.
  • Invisibility is in no better shape than it was, the problems have just been significantly shifted in the other direction. 2 turns of invis limitation? 3 turn cooldown before you can re-invis? So what if you can cast it on allies now, its expensive, limited use, and completely kills the stealth-combat playstyle of air sram.
  • Traps. Ok, this is a good move. I like that traps have been incorporated in this way, I just wish that Air trap was also invisible to the enemy and that when an enemy stepped on it, they would get some sort of negative effect. I don't like that the traps are only castable in a straight line though.
  • "Let's make them do everything slightly!" It was already bad enough that Water had to deal with 2 skills that buffed near-worthless stats on the Sram. +/- Lock and +/- Dodge. Now we have +40 initiative, +60 lock, +60 dodge in our passive specialties? We don't need the initiative, we definitely don't need the lock (which is moot while stealthed anyways. Srams are not lockers or tanks, and never should be), and +60 dodge?.. The only time you need to dodge is while you're stealthed, which simply based on LOGIC you shouldn't be locked in the first place, especially if you were stealthed AND behind the target. You've budgeted these worthless stats into the overall power of the passive specialties, and in turn have sacrificed effects that at least 'conceptually' made sense before. Let me break it down;
    • +60 dodge on Sram Reflex and we lost a chance to evade attacks and gain MP
    • +60 lock on Sramulous (replaced passive Stabber) and we lost +100% damage potential from stabber stacks (which rewarded good backstab play)
    • +40 initiative on Sramystical, a new passive which either; removed the ability to get backstabs on the enemy, removed the increased steath capability that used to be the +100 perc granted by STTB, best case - replaced Shadow Master which was simply a worthless passive.
  • No stealth fighting other than laying traps. This is the biggest thing to me. Sram used to be the tactical class that required a lot of skill to handle properly. Arguably it just needed a way to better include water/fire somehow, without punishing the sram for using something other than air. Instead its now completely gone. What does a Sram do now that isn't done better by other classes? Masks will do better damage. Pet summoners are better than our traps will ever be. Iops are far better at close-combat damage. These changes make Sram the "Jack of some trades, and not very good at any of them" archetype. Disappointing, completely. If you wanted to implement a new trap-based class than you should have just created a completely new class and not given them stealth (oh wait, that was Rogues with bombs!).
Yes, I'm being VERY critical about these changes. It's been 2.5 years since launch and Srams continue to devolve into an even worse state with every revamp. This revamp has killed what the Sram was supposed to be.

Now, as is my custom, I will provide a list of changes I would like to see be made to this class in order to preserve and benefit it in such a way that it would be better than it ever was. For starters, here's the post I made on the wakfu.asia forums months ago, kind of a "wishlist" of things I would like to see happen; Click here

Secondly, here's a list where I collected info from the wakfu.asia sram players on what they would like to see done for the rework; Click here

Now, here is a list of things I would do to correct this revamp;
  • Scram removed. Replaced with; "Srambush". 1 AP 1 MP cost at max level. If The Sram goes into deep stealth, allowing the next attack to be used from stealth without breaking it. Damage is reduced by 25% for the turn though. Cannot be used with Stabber. [This allows stealth combat to still exist]
  • Stabber should be reworked. This skill should work opposite of how Srambush does. Now costs 1WP at max level. The Sram's next attack is a guaranteed critical, and deals an additional +15% final damage. Cannot be used with Srambush. [This skill uses a WP after all, +15% final damage by itself is not worth such a cost. This also adds to the gameplay of Sram by giving them ways to choose to fight while stealthed.]
  • Shadow Trap no longer has a 2/turn limit. [It is an arbitrary limit. If someone wants to blow 9 AP on 3 traps in a turn they should be able to.]
  • Invis only costs 1 WP when used on the Sram. The Sram should only incur a 1 turn cooldown upon revealing themselves. The Sram will also get 4 turns of invis at max level. None of these benefits apply if Invis is being cast on someone other than the Sram. Furthermore, invis targets should take 50% more final damage. [Sram should be better at being invis than anyone else at all times. Invis should also be "detrimental" when used on someone other than themselves, but should not be when they use it on themselves. However, not being broken out of stealth upon receiving damage is a great buff - and should be kept in check by taking more damage while in stealth.]
  • Double should get 50% of the Sram's max HP, not 25%. It should also not have a cooldown, and it should only be usable once per fight. [Using double at the right time should be the trick to this skill. If you use it at the wrong time, and it gets bursted down - than you played it wrong and should be punished for it. 4 turns is too long anyways].
  • Sramystical should give +20% all-damage instead of +40 initiative. [Initiative doesn't have any real place for Srams. Arbitrarily adding initiative to every class like this (which is too common) decreases the importance of Xelors in regards to initiative flipping.]
  • Shadow Master is okay I guess. [Good synergy with my other changes.]
  • Sramulous no longer grants +60 lock, but now grants +20% final damage when the enemy is below 25% max hp, and +10% final damage when the enemy is below 50% hp. [Lock doesn't have a place for Sram, doubly so after the changes I'm making below to STTB.]
  • Sram Reflex now grants 100% dodge chance while stealthed at max level, instead of +60 dodge. Pitiful AP cost removal secondary effects have been removed. [Tricky Blow was always a great way to disengage in stealth, and will continue to grant the anonymity of a distant hit. But for water/fire srams who don't use TB, they need an alternative back out of a fight that won't screw them with a 5% locked chance.]
  • Sram to the Bone now grants +50% crit gains from stat points, and +4% final damage per remaining MP point at the time of cast. [This passive was too dependent on enforcing what stats the Sram should be using, when the gear and stat system in game does not synergize well at all with the Sram. It now has two effects which are relevant to the Sram. +50% crit gains from stat points means that if you specced +18% into crit, you now get an extra 9%, which is really good. Also, if you are "on your enemy" in such a way that they didn't run from you and you didn't have to spend MP, you should be rewarded (because that is an ideal situation for a Sram to get into) by additional damage per remaining MP point you have. If you have 6 MP because you didn't need to move, now you do +18% final damage. Finally a reason to make sure you're getting a good amount of MP!"
  • Tricky Blow can be used on empty cells again. [Seriously now, why would you change that in the first place?]
 


Ancient Eradicator * Member Since 2008-06-09
posté July 23, 2014, 22:34:49 | #15
^ You do realize that lock is useful for Srams since to effectively use Double it needs lock. Double is meant for crowd control.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté July 24, 2014, 05:10:16 | #16

Quote (GodIsWithUs @ 23 July 2014 22:34) *
^ You do realize that lock is useful for Srams since to effectively use Double it needs lock. Double is meant for crowd control.
I understand that this latest work-in-progress Sram revamp is artifically structuring the need for lock stats, which have no other purpose for Sram's otherwise, yes. Lock is not something that Sram's in the current game will spec into, and for good reason. Double has never been meant for crowd control until this latest revamp build - they are/were secondary sources of damage for a class that suffers from lack of range/aoe otherwise.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2012-01-29
posté July 25, 2014, 10:40:58 | #17

Quote (LoreChief @ 23 July 2014 21:35) *
Longtime Sram player here. With each "revamp" of the class, I've grown more and more disappointed with the overall playstyle. I will provide my feedback here, but please do not think that it will be positive. For starters;

First version of Sram (post-launch), the biggest issues with the class were;
  • Unpredictability of Invis/Perception. Will it break? Will I get locked? Why do all these mobs have more perc than me?
  • Stagnation of elemental builds: Fire/Water could not really use invis unless they got Shadow Master maxed. Even then it was far more limited and decreased their potential by having to spend the 100 skill points into a talent just to keep up with air.
  • Some pretty useless active/passives: Shadow traps were worthless. Sram to the bone was by association also worthless. Invis was too expensive. Stabber took an entire fight of perfect play in order to max stacks. LAY was unreliable, and Diversion was unreliable AND had a cost.
  • Guile was too punishing; indefinite stacking of -25% final damage for each usage. Catching up to an enemy often meant you would be hitting them with a foam bat as a consequence.
  • Fire was boring to use, and hemo was weak/1-dimensional.
  • Water is too "all over the place" in regards of buffs/debuffs. There were only 3 skills worth using in the tree, and one of them (+MP) was redundant to use.
  • Damage was always the best when you used Trauma, in all situations no matter what. So everyone just used Trauma, and built for double-trauma.

Second version of Sram (first revamp), there was a lot of hope with the changes, but ultimately it was ill thought out;
  • Invis was now a skill that you invested 95 skill points into in order to nerf yourself. You want me to pay you WP to decrease my damage by 50%?
  • Guile still sucked; -50% final damage cap! YAY now I can catch up to the enemy AND only reduce my damage by... shit. And if you were invis too? Ha.
  • Perception is gone! Hooray! Crap, why do I keep getting locked at 95% dodge chance? More like 50% chance AMIRITE?
  • Fire was still stagnant and boring.
  • Water was still all over the place.
  • Air still depended on Double Trauma.
  • Fire/Water still didn't have a reason to stealth.
Now, reviewing yet again the changes made for the *third* revamp of Sram, I've arrived at the following criticisms.
  • Invisibility is in no better shape than it was, the problems have just been significantly shifted in the other direction. 2 turns of invis limitation? 3 turn cooldown before you can re-invis? So what if you can cast it on allies now, its expensive, limited use, and completely kills the stealth-combat playstyle of air sram.
  • Traps. Ok, this is a good move. I like that traps have been incorporated in this way, I just wish that Air trap was also invisible to the enemy and that when an enemy stepped on it, they would get some sort of negative effect. I don't like that the traps are only castable in a straight line though.
  • "Let's make them do everything slightly!" It was already bad enough that Water had to deal with 2 skills that buffed near-worthless stats on the Sram. +/- Lock and +/- Dodge. Now we have +40 initiative, +60 lock, +60 dodge in our passive specialties? We don't need the initiative, we definitely don't need the lock (which is moot while stealthed anyways. Srams are not lockers or tanks, and never should be), and +60 dodge?.. The only time you need to dodge is while you're stealthed, which simply based on LOGIC you shouldn't be locked in the first place, especially if you were stealthed AND behind the target. You've budgeted these worthless stats into the overall power of the passive specialties, and in turn have sacrificed effects that at least 'conceptually' made sense before. Let me break it down;
    • +60 dodge on Sram Reflex and we lost a chance to evade attacks and gain MP
    • +60 lock on Sramulous (replaced passive Stabber) and we lost +100% damage potential from stabber stacks (which rewarded good backstab play)
    • +40 initiative on Sramystical, a new passive which either; removed the ability to get backstabs on the enemy, removed the increased steath capability that used to be the +100 perc granted by STTB, best case - replaced Shadow Master which was simply a worthless passive.
  • No stealth fighting other than laying traps. This is the biggest thing to me. Sram used to be the tactical class that required a lot of skill to handle properly. Arguably it just needed a way to better include water/fire somehow, without punishing the sram for using something other than air. Instead its now completely gone. What does a Sram do now that isn't done better by other classes? Masks will do better damage. Pet summoners are better than our traps will ever be. Iops are far better at close-combat damage. These changes make Sram the "Jack of some trades, and not very good at any of them" archetype. Disappointing, completely. If you wanted to implement a new trap-based class than you should have just created a completely new class and not given them stealth (oh wait, that was Rogues with bombs!).
Yes, I'm being VERY critical about these changes. It's been 2.5 years since launch and Srams continue to devolve into an even worse state with every revamp. This revamp has killed what the Sram was supposed to be.

Now, as is my custom, I will provide a list of changes I would like to see be made to this class in order to preserve and benefit it in such a way that it would be better than it ever was. For starters, here's the post I made on the wakfu.asia forums months ago, kind of a "wishlist" of things I would like to see happen; Click here

Secondly, here's a list where I collected info from the wakfu.asia sram players on what they would like to see done for the rework; Click here

Now, here is a list of things I would do to correct this revamp;
  • Scram removed. Replaced with; "Srambush". 1 AP 1 MP cost at max level. If The Sram goes into deep stealth, allowing the next attack to be used from stealth without breaking it. Damage is reduced by 25% for the turn though. Cannot be used with Stabber. [This allows stealth combat to still exist]
  • Stabber should be reworked. This skill should work opposite of how Srambush does. Now costs 1WP at max level. The Sram's next attack is a guaranteed critical, and deals an additional +15% final damage. Cannot be used with Srambush. [This skill uses a WP after all, +15% final damage by itself is not worth such a cost. This also adds to the gameplay of Sram by giving them ways to choose to fight while stealthed.]
  • Shadow Trap no longer has a 2/turn limit. [It is an arbitrary limit. If someone wants to blow 9 AP on 3 traps in a turn they should be able to.]
  • Invis only costs 1 WP when used on the Sram. The Sram should only incur a 1 turn cooldown upon revealing themselves. The Sram will also get 4 turns of invis at max level. None of these benefits apply if Invis is being cast on someone other than the Sram. Furthermore, invis targets should take 50% more final damage. [Sram should be better at being invis than anyone else at all times. Invis should also be "detrimental" when used on someone other than themselves, but should not be when they use it on themselves. However, not being broken out of stealth upon receiving damage is a great buff - and should be kept in check by taking more damage while in stealth.]
  • Double should get 50% of the Sram's max HP, not 25%. It should also not have a cooldown, and it should only be usable once per fight. [Using double at the right time should be the trick to this skill. If you use it at the wrong time, and it gets bursted down - than you played it wrong and should be punished for it. 4 turns is too long anyways].
  • Sramystical should give +20% all-damage instead of +40 initiative. [Initiative doesn't have any real place for Srams. Arbitrarily adding initiative to every class like this (which is too common) decreases the importance of Xelors in regards to initiative flipping.]
  • Shadow Master is okay I guess. [Good synergy with my other changes.]
  • Sramulous no longer grants +60 lock, but now grants +20% final damage when the enemy is below 25% max hp, and +10% final damage when the enemy is below 50% hp. [Lock doesn't have a place for Sram, doubly so after the changes I'm making below to STTB.]
  • Sram Reflex now grants 100% dodge chance while stealthed at max level, instead of +60 dodge. Pitiful AP cost removal secondary effects have been removed. [Tricky Blow was always a great way to disengage in stealth, and will continue to grant the anonymity of a distant hit. But for water/fire srams who don't use TB, they need an alternative back out of a fight that won't screw them with a 5% locked chance.]
  • Sram to the Bone now grants +50% crit gains from stat points, and +4% final damage per remaining MP point at the time of cast. [This passive was too dependent on enforcing what stats the Sram should be using, when the gear and stat system in game does not synergize well at all with the Sram. It now has two effects which are relevant to the Sram. +50% crit gains from stat points means that if you specced +18% into crit, you now get an extra 9%, which is really good. Also, if you are "on your enemy" in such a way that they didn't run from you and you didn't have to spend MP, you should be rewarded (because that is an ideal situation for a Sram to get into) by additional damage per remaining MP point you have. If you have 6 MP because you didn't need to move, now you do +18% final damage. Finally a reason to make sure you're getting a good amount of MP!"
  • Tricky Blow can be used on empty cells again. [Seriously now, why would you change that in the first place?]
Some of the things you said really bug me. You saying dodge is a useless stat for a sram? I don't consider any sram 120+ without atleast 200 dodge a sram, just a bad iop. Lock on the other hand was a joke on a sram but now with the new double it can be very good.

I'm seriously curious as to what you think a sram should be? So you want srams to have 70% crit +100 dmgs +40% backstab keep our final damage buffs but lose our methods of landing backstabs other than guile while invisible for the entire length of EVERY fight? The sram is supposed to be a slippery assassin made to deal with the non-tank targets in the back.They used to be able to go invisible and just slap the opponets ranged damage and healers while invisible and hope they dont get caught by Aoe. With the new sram they now have a couple ranged skills to boost weak points before they go assassin mode if they choose, but having the invisible back hit make them completely vulnerable if he doesn't play smart. the Dodge and final damage make aiming for the low resists so tempting and the lock let's you throw out your double put it infront of someone with low dodge and they have to kill it or more it. 200 lock on your double is hilariously easy to get and not too many classes get close to 200 dodge.

instead of the old sram playstyle of "get behind them and hit them as hard as possible over and over" I see a few different playstyles in this sram.

1: the pretty obvious use of traps. you have air trap and double to get you out of harms way aswell as 2 different element aoe ranged damages if you're fire/water.

2: This one a lot like the old sram of getting behind your target and playing whack-a-mole on their head, but now you have some more dodge which I appreciate and final damages that you can use from turn one instead of stacking over the course of 4-10 turns of non-stop backhits. Also like to mention the WP only invisible to avoid damage every few turns and boost your "assassinate skill" as I call them with both stabber and the invisible damage buff.

3: This one you probably won't see for awhile on the sram revamp release but a tank-like sram. More less using your double as a tank and hitting from range, +lock gear instead of dodge and block to help keep your lil double buddy up and kicking. Of course you aren't gonna be a true lock tank, but having a double with high Res,Lock, and block would be pretty good in some teams especially when it can be revived multiple times(casted).


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2012-01-24
posté July 25, 2014, 13:49:10 | #18
As everyone knows I'm one of the oldest, strongest and most active srams on nox, not to mention probably the first efficient water sram (now air/water).


Here's the only problem I find which makes no sense to me whatsoever: COLD BLOOD HEALS MORE THAN BLOODY RIPOFF AT LEVEL 165 OR LESS!!!

If I understood the revision correctly... Also, dayum that water sram heal nerf in general I could heal 4x per turn, 2000 hp +, still less than ecas and enis... NOW I HAVE TO STACK WEAKNESS SO I CAN HEAL, LOW HEAL, ONCE PER TURN IF LUCKY!!!

The whole point is the principle, how the hell is a fire branch (damage dealing aoe branch) gonna heal more than the healing branch (water branch). The times you can heal with bloody ripoff and the amount of healing by definition, by default, SHOULD BE MORE THAN THE FIRE BRANCH.


Thats it, other than that, the revamp is the best I've seen so far.


Quote (LoreChief @ 23 July 2014 21:35) *
Longtime Sram player here.
So I was interested in what your opinion was then I found out all you have is ONE level 73 Sram.

LOLOLOL GTFO NOOB

no wonder your opinion on the revamp is just nonsense ranting with zero valid points or concerns. I'd fire you if you worked for me.


This post has been edited by xCATZILAx - July 25, 2014, 16:57:21.
Dokushuuuuu * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté July 25, 2014, 15:15:39 | #19

Quote
As everyone knows I'm one of the oldest, strongest and most active srams on nox, not to mention probably the first efficient water sram (now air/water).
I stop reading the rest when someone says something like that about himself. It's just so silly to call yourself the best, haha. But cute. Also, just because he has lvl 73 sram doesn't mean he doesn't know anything about it, he may have 15 other srams on other accounts or whatever. Someone may have lvl 150 sram and know nothing about it.

Anyway, I like water and fire changes, but I'm sad about air loosing invisibility as something special, something that only this tree had (others could use it too but it was mostly made for air). Water has stealing, fire has dmg, air has... map manipulation?And only one of those map manipulating spells is actually nice. I don't know, I would really prefer invisibility.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté July 25, 2014, 16:56:26 | #20

Quote (xCATZILAx @ 25 July 2014 13:49) *
So I was interested in what your opinion was then I found out all you have is ONE level 73 Sram.

LOLOLOL GTFO NOOB

no wonder your opinion on the revamp is just nonsense ranting with zero valid points or concerns. I'd fire you if you worked for me.

Sorry mate I don't play Nox anymore I play on APAC. The Sram you're lookin at hasn't been touched since launch.