Back to forum.wakfu.com

No flash

Resonate's profile
Statistics
Member Since : 2011-06-03
483 Posts (0.4 per day)
Most active in : Character Classes
posté May 21, 2013, 14:18:53 | #1
Before, water Eca relied a lot on Ecaflip Die for critical hit damage. Now the damage boost from WS is exclusive to the Fire Eca.

Fleahopper's damage reduction due to decrease in AP cost is approximately correct (26 - 9 = 17 for -1 AP cost). However the crit buff reduction is a huge nerf (7% to 3%).

The Flealine Army's damage buff is quite difficult to achieve max stack. 5% per flea hit up to 80%. In other words, 16 hits. If you spam Flealove (not the glyph) and fleahopper, it will take about a bit more than 3 turns to get. With the buff in DPA (damage per AP) of Rough Tongue, it's very encouraging to not use a Flea spell. Yet again, after all the buff, the damage output is still nothing outstanding.


Thread : Ecaflip  Preview message : #546123  Replies : 9  Views : 1163
posté May 21, 2013, 14:12:27 | #2
Some new Eca bugs - Only 1 Fleeches (Flealove) glyph can exist at a time. Not even once per turn, once you have 1 glyph down, you can't make a 2nd one in the next turn.

- Ecaflip Die doesn't immediately grant +1 AP when the winning streak reaches 100, only in the next turn

- Description error of Winning Streak: it has 2 lines of +fire damage. For example, at level 100 Winning Streak, it says +50% CH, +100% Fire Damage, +200% Fire damage, +1 AP, +1 MP. The +100% Fire Damage doesn't apply though and I don't know why it exists to begin with.

- Flealine Army's Flea Multiplication is bugged with Fleahopper and Precision. If precision is triggered by Fleahopper, which triggers Flea Multiplication, the damage boost by precision will be retained to subsequent attacks until the end of that turn (it is reset at the end of the turn). So, for example, if you cast 5 Fleahopper, each triggers a body hit (+50% damage), the result will be +250% damage to all elements until before you hit the End Turn button.

- Cat Tree doesn't let the Ecaflip be on top of it. The 30% probability of triggering seems correct but it seems that the Ecaflip is always teleported next to the tree and never be on top of it. I have tried again and again but have never succeeded once (about 50 times). Also the description seems a bit of a mess. At level 9 it says 30% of triggering and with that: 100% on top of the tree, 80% next to the tree then again 20% on top of the tree.


Thread : Ecaflip  Preview message : #546117  Replies : 7  Views : 747
posté April 26, 2013, 07:02:33 | #3
On a standard build & considering current flealine army bug, I recommend these abilities:
- Max precision
- Lvl 1 Tarot
- Max Black Bow Meow
- Max Ecaflip Die
- Max Feline Leap
- Max Rollback
- Either max Cat Tree or go 6/9 Cat Tree, 6/9 Paw Off

Go for a Loaded Dice + Crap build, instead of Die alright or Roulette. This is quite an end-game build as you need all of those skills to beat the odd. At around lvl 80-90, a Dark Hurl set will greatly boost your potential.

Edit: Stats wise, it's +1 AP, maxed Critical Hit, then +1 Range or
+1 AP, maxed Critical Hit, the rest to Intelligence.


This post has been edited by Resonate - April 26, 2013, 07:04:00.
Thread : Ecaflip  Preview message : #532983  Replies : 5  Views : 2771
posté April 25, 2013, 23:03:00 | #4
Flealine Army bug Details: Flea Hopper triggered by fire spells (Loaded Dice & Crap) through Flealine Army does not take water damage mastery into account, and possibly cannot do critical hit.

How to reproduce: Cast Loaded Dice or Crap (or possibly any other earth or fire spell) until Flea Hopper is triggered.

How was the bug noticed: There's a clear difference in output between using Flea Hopper directly, and triggering Flea Hopper via Flealine Army, even without critical hit.


Thread : Bug Archives  Preview message : #532827  Replies : 0  Views : 177
posté April 25, 2013, 19:41:33 | #5
[Water Eca] Post-maint performance? I'm not playing a Water Eca but, just curious, how are you water cats doing after today's maintenance? I suppose Flea Love heals for a slightly higher amount. Does anyone notice any other change?


Thread : Ecaflip  Preview message : #532695  Replies : 1  Views : 500
posté April 25, 2013, 00:39:19 | #6
Is it just me or the pup is quite big?


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #532143  Replies : 38  Views : 2735
posté April 24, 2013, 14:36:30 | #7
There's a difference between "being adaptable/acceptable" and "could be better or working as intended".

What water Eca now is, for some people, acceptable because they can adapt to it. But ignoring the fact that the class/branch could have been better designed, has it worked as intended? My answer is No.

- Fleahopper is not supposed to be a life steal spell anymore, as it does not aim at healing the Ecaflip alone, but also its allies. It's a healing spell. However, the healing amount is equal to the post-resistance damage done, thus it does not heal the amount it's supposed to when used on high resistance mobs.

- Feline Leap is supposed to give healing bonus% to healing spells. However, Fleahopper does not take healing bonus% into account and Flea Love (especially the glyph) does not get the healing bonus as well because that effect of Feline Leap ends at the end of the Ecaflip's turn.

So you can argue that Ankama's competency at designing characters have been proved to fail numerous times (with a bit of bias), and we need to adapt to it, as part of the fun. Yeah we can. However, if the design itself is not working as intended, are we supposed to adapt to the bug too, and just turn our eyes away from it?


Thread : Ecaflip  Preview message : #531769  Replies : 105  Views : 6592
posté April 22, 2013, 14:40:37 | #8
miLordDen, you don't have a high level water Ecaflip so you don't know. The Water branch, in its default state, doesn't have a reliable damage boost abilities whereas the Sac has very reliable damage boost from Angrrr and Vigor & if I remember correctly there's another passive that gives damage bonus too, for a total of about 200%. Although it requires your HP to be low, Sac, in a team, has a lot of HP and the number you dish out is pretty stable.

The problem of water Ecaflip was never not having enough base damage. It's about not having enough damage bonus to bypass the mob's resistance. Also, as a support unit, water Ecaflip only has subpar performance due to delayed and conditional heal, as well as the healing amount based on life steal being reduced by enemy's water resistance. And well, when you think of Ecaflip's post-resistance damage, it's almost non-existent.


Thread : Ecaflip  Preview message : #530191  Replies : 105  Views : 6592
posté April 22, 2013, 07:34:27 | #9
I have never played Osa before, or at least the summon part. Why do you guys need so high leadership? I thought at best, you only need 3 summons out at a time. Or does it count for the number of summons you can store in the gobgob too?


Thread : Osamodas  Preview message : #530047  Replies : 84  Views : 9393
posté April 22, 2013, 07:26:39 | #10

Quote (axemangx @ 22 April 2013 07:12) *
All I ask is that you try to make these changes so it doesn't benefit the other branches as well.

For the love of god, please. We don't need any more overall buffs.
I'm not sure if your comment was towards my suggestion. If it's not, you should make a constructive comment towards the 1st post. If it is, you may have not read it through. The thing that I suggested for the water branch, that might affect the other 2 branches, is the new Fleahopper and Flealine Army. However, they will only work if those branches invest significant amount of spell exp for the spell (or for Flea Assault), and possibly a diversification of gear for multiple elements as well. It's not like Flealine Army will be a free passive that gives critical hit chance by just pumping 100 ability points into it. There's a price for it and whoever does pay it, he/she deserves it.

Sorry if my comment sounds rushed or harshed. I'm a bit tired for staying up the whole night until 6 AM.


Thread : Ecaflip  Preview message : #530041  Replies : 105  Views : 6592
posté April 22, 2013, 07:08:31 | #11
No no, if you think about it more carefully, you would see that I really emphasized positioning. The Ecaflip will buff the critical hit chance of whoever he stay close so it's important that he chooses to stand close to the Cra or the Sac/Iop. Also he can only heal effectively in range 1 so he needs to move constantly among allies (like a battlefield medic). The 5th spell only heals for significant amount if there are multiple enemies standing in a small area.

The current Up To Scratch spell is the one that is strange. You can only cast it at range 3-4. So for a double cast, you need to leap out, walk back then scratch again. That is so inefficient and there's really no excuse for it. If you want to move around and better position yourself, use leap instead.

About Hunter, do you really think this spell has any strategic purpose? I could imagine an Ecaflip jumps out and stop an enemy from approaching a different target. But for what? In essence, you move away from your kitty, and away from allies who you were supporting. Also, it's the Ecaflip being the squishy one, and not others. Predictable outcome = better planning ahead. Unpredictable moving around will just gives you the excitement of your own but not what the team need. Yet water ecaflips have been complaining about not being invited to UB/dungeon runs.

Edit: About your Up To Scratch + Flealine Army + Fleahopper part. I'm not quite sure what you meant. What I assumed you wanted to say was that either you want to use Up To Scratch to give allies some buffs when Up To Scratch scratches them (the allies), when usually it should damage them instead, or you want to give each ally an Flea Bag buff (the old Flea Bag, not Fleahopper) whenever a water spell is used on an enemy. Both are quite a significant change to what those spells and ability are working now. You should write about them in more details, like I did. As until now I still haven't had an idea of what you were trying to say. Up To Scratch, AOE zone is awkward. It still requires line of sight to target an enemy but its AOE zone are on the two sides. How often do you see a viable scenario for such AOE zone to be effective? Not to mention the AOE damage is only halved of the main target. I don't believe any water ecaflip who are currently playing chose Up To Scratch not for its base damage but for the movement.


This post has been edited by Resonate - April 22, 2013, 07:28:07.
Thread : Ecaflip  Preview message : #530035  Replies : 105  Views : 6592
posté April 22, 2013, 04:27:17 | #12
I revised the suggestion a bit from HakazabaJub's comment.


Thread : Ecaflip  Preview message : #529981  Replies : 105  Views : 6592
posté April 22, 2013, 03:28:35 | #13
So to continue, this is what my own design of Water Ecaflip would be. We'll go from spells first, then abilities. I will respect Ankama's design of all other abilities not fully support only the water branch.

Given my belief of Water Ecaflip's role being: Healer, Support and Offensive Tanker, I want Water Ecaflip to have:
- 1 melee spell
- 1 ranged offensive spell
- 1 support spell
- 1 healing only spell
- 1 life steal alike spell

The melee spell
Basically the melee spell would be similar to Rough Tongue, if not exactly the same. Water Ecaflip's role is not damage dealer to do some crazy damage so there's no need for special effects. So the original design for Rough Tongue, as said before, is acceptable.

The ranged offensive spell
Now here comes the important part: a ranged offensive spell. This is for Ecaflips who spec more into being a Healer than into being a tanker, who want to deal damage from afar. I don't want any healing or life steal effect here, as that will just be inefficient to the team. The Ecaflip stays out from the danger zone so there's no need for healing itself. The purpose of this spell is supporting fire. So how does a water Ecaflip do a ranged attack? You might have guessed, it throws fleas (again).

As the Ecaflip is capable of taming the fleas that stay on it so as to have a "Flealine Army", I believe the Ecaflip is capable of training the fleas too for different purposes. There are support fleas which go and steal HP for the Eca and its allies, so there should be 'warrior fleas' of which purpose is to go tearing flesh and inflicting infections on the enemies. The 'infection' shall be an additional effect that:
- could be stacked up on levels like other effects
- does additional damage at the end of the enemy's turn (not at the Ecaflip's turn)
- lower enemies' water resistance
- increase enemies' heal resistance (this does not affect life-steal alike spells used on the enemies) due to infection & bleeding
- the stack resets every time it reaches level 100, however, only after another proc. In other words, then the Ecaflip inflicts the state on the enemy, and it reaches level 100, the state will not wear off immediately. It will wear off after one last proc at the end of the enemy's next turn.

Only this spell will have this state, or it coule be inflicted by chance via Flealine Army. I shall name this Flea Assault.

The support spell
I wanted a spell that can absorb damage. However it will be difficult to justify the mechanic behind such a spell for Ecaflip (a cat). If anyone remembers, the old Flea Bag spell was for this purpose but didn't work quite well as it was more of a life-steal spell with low base value than an armor for absorbing damage. Feline was never meant to be tough skin.

So following HakazabaJub's suggestion. I have this idea about a Fleahopper's alike spell. I will call it 'Fleahopper' too. It will cost 2 MP. If used on an enemy it will increase the critical hit chance of all allies standing adjacent to the target (the damage is insignificant but greater effect is achieved at higher spell level). If used on an allies (or the Ecaflip), it will increase the critical hit chance of the target alone. This is quite similar to Cra's long distance combat. The spell can be used on the Ecaflip (the range has 0 value)

The improved critical hit chance will be a state too, called Capucine (like what it is ingame currently) with a total of 6 levels. 1 level = 1% critical hit chance. Level 1-19 Flea Hopper = Level 1 Capucine. Level 80-99 Flea Hopper = Level 5 Capucine. Level 100 Flea Hopper = Level 6 Capucine. A critical hit will break the 6 level limit and raise the effect to level 9 at level 100 Flea Hopper.

Max = 2 uses per turn.

The healing spell
Again, it's the problem of justifying the mechanic behind the spell. An ecaflip really can't heal someone at a distance, without doing some damage via Fleas to steal life. Therefore, the only thing I came up with is 'Licking wound'. You know how cats, and animals in general tend to lick their wounds right? It's not the best thing to do for injuries but let's believe that it works

This works for balance too, considering an Ecaflip is not the main healer class (like Eni), so with this spell, the Ecaflip will need to get into the melee range and lick the wound for the target, thus heal it for an amount (a standard amount like proper healing spell, instead of being halved value like life-steal spells). Also, with the mechanic of this spell, the Ecaflip can also 'lick' its own wound - thus becomes capable of healing itself.

The life-steal spell
This will be a combination of Flea Love, Fleeches and my own idea. In fact, it will be very simplified compared to the old and current version: The Ecaflip sends a group of Support Fleas towards an area, damage all enemies standing inside and steal their HP, the total stolen amount will be equally distributed between the 2 lowest HP members in the group wherever they are standing on the field.

If assuming the old cost: 6 AP, 1 WP, the spell will have a base value of 70 (like currently). All damages and healing will be instant. The WP cost will be non-refundable. It aims towards group fight, and is quite cost-inefficient in a 1 vs 1. The healing part, of course, is not affected by the enemy's water resistance. In other words, it takes the pre-resistance damage into account.

Personally, I would prefer the cost of 5 AP, for a base value of 40, or 5 AP 1 MP, for a base value of 45.

Feline Leap
This ability originally only supported the water branch. Now with the change having been implemented, as mentioned in the previous post, the damage and healing boost should remain until the beginning of the Ecaflip's next turn for any after-effect to be affected as well.

Flealine Army
The Ecaflip will have a circle zone aura, giving allies (including the Ecaflip) the Capucine effect, of which level depends on the level of Fleahopper. Its effect stack with additional use of Fleahopper. This is not overpowered because the Ecaflip deserves it if he/she invests 100 levels into a pure support spell.

When a Fire or Earth spell is used, the Ecaflip has 20% to cast Flea Assault on the enemy.
When a Water spell is used on an enemy, the Ecaflip has 20% to cause the Infection State.

Increase heal bonus by 40%.

Only 20% because for Fire or Earth branch, it will be quite a significant increase in damage whereas for the Water branch, they have a greater chance to increase the Infection state due to the frequent uses of spells.

Black Bow Meow
This ability doesn't directly affect the water branch but at least let me add one comment. Let the kitty bound to the Ecaflip (as if it is under the effect of K'mir). The cat is always stabilized and follows the Ecaflip wherever it goes, even if it leaps onto higher ground).

If the kitty is not bound to the Ecaflip, let it be like this: The Black Bow Meow, in addition to its current bonus, it will have the same Flealine Army aura as the Ecaflip, and can be controlled to provide support for other team mates.

Note: if the Ecaflip has level 0 Fleahopper, the kitty's Flealine Army aura will also provide nothing.


This post has been edited by Resonate - April 22, 2013, 08:16:55.
Thread : Ecaflip  Preview message : #529955  Replies : 105  Views : 6592
posté April 22, 2013, 01:54:39 | #14
Here I'm just going to list some bad things about the recent patch first, more like an analysis than complaint.

Firstly we need to consider what is available to an Ecaflip in general, not just the water branch.
- Tarot cards: having both a good and a bad side. It's not a reliable mechanic to fully rely on though powerful at times. So let's not consider this ability with regards to water ecaflip.
- Ecaflip die: a very powerful mechanic. At high winning streak (WS), you gain an incredible amount of critical hit damage. Being an eca, especially fire & earth, it's almost a given that you're going to do critical damage and should build for it. Building WS has also become easier with the help of the new Black Bow Meow. However, despite all of those advantages, Ecaflip die is still very luck based. Even if after like 2-3 turns, you manage to build up 40 WS, one turn of rolling 1 will decrease 20 of the stack. The Black Bow Meow is also inflexible, and squishy. It is very difficult to keep the kitty around and it dies too fast for its cost.
- Precision: Unlike other classes, an Ecaflip has no reliable and free (passive) means of increasing its damage. So even if an Ecaflip manages to proc a 'precised' hit, the damage doesn't look quite impressive (except for brain hit). Only now that the Earth branch has too many ways to win the odd, thus in a general turn, an Earth Ecaflip would always have boosted damage. For Water? it's still a sad case.
- Leap: Everyone knows what has been changed for this ability. Concerning the buff of Ecaflip die & Black Bow Meow, especially the current state of Tarot cards, the skill should remain as it is about not being able to stack buff 3+ times. However, depending on whether healing related skills are boosted or not, maybe the heal buff should be raise to 100% and last until the beginning of the next turn (meaning after the Eca ends its turn, Flea Love's glyph will still be affected by the Healing buff).
- Cat Tree and Paw Off are just defensive abilities, we can't really comment on their impact on balance yet.
- Double or Quit has 2 edges. It wasn't changed so nothing to say about it.
- I will talk about Flealine Army later, maybe in a different post.

Now let's talk about spells. Think about it, what do you think the role of a Water Ecaflip is in a team? Healing, Support, Offensive Tank right? So does it need Up To Scratch, a movement spell, while it has Feline Leap? Does it need to unexpectedly jump out of position with Hunter? Probably not.

The thing that you all look for in both Up To Scratch and Hunter are just the standard damage per point ratio (of average 15 per AP) that other classes have, not for their movement and unexpected element. This is the thing that Water Ecaflip has always lacked, being able to dish out good damage. If you look at Rough Tongue, it only has 28/2 damage ratio (or could be 31/2 if I remember correctly). Water Ecaflip doesn't have the abilities and base damage to penetrate the resistance of new type of mobs (starting from monks up to Chillberg creatures).

As some people have pointed out, the bad thing about Fleahopper is that its healing part is equal to its post-resistance damage part. If this wasn't the case, the spell itself isn't too bad considering that it has critical buff too. But looking back at this spell, has it changed at all compared to what it was before patch?

Regarding Flea Love, its current state is quite awkward. I'm not talking about whether the base value is balanced or not, I'm saying how the spell currently works is bad in design. How is it bad? First of all, it costs a big chunk of points: 6 AP and 1 WP, for what? A delayed 51 base Healing or a glyph that deals damage and heals at the same time, but very conditional, for very small value per proc and only lasts 2 turns. It heals one target one time for every time it manages to damage 1 target, but doesn't heal a certain target more than 1 times if the number of enemies in the glyph is more than the number of allies.

It's quite stupid really, when some people complain that this class is able to heal and damage at the same time, so its spell base damage must be nerf to sub par. However, when you look at it, Ecaflip, like other classes, only has one similar pool of resources (AP, MP, WP) to spend in a turn. So if it uses an offensive spell, it should do the standard damage, if it uses a hybrid (life steal) spell, let's divide the base by half for each component, if it uses a healing spell (if such a spell exists), let the base healing be at standard (Eni's) level.

I will tell you in a later post, about what my own design of Water Ecaflip would be like.


Thread : Ecaflip  Preview message : #529889  Replies : 105  Views : 6592
posté April 22, 2013, 00:21:06 | #15
You know what, the whole changes in the previous patch was wrong to begin with. I didn't expect Up To Scratch and Hunter to be implemented. Let me think this through about how Water Eca should be for an interesting (and possibly not overpowered) gameplay, assuming the other 2 branches (and their associated abilities) remain the same.

Edit: Just to avoid confusion, before the patch, Water Ecaflip was also inefficient and boring.


This post has been edited by Resonate - April 22, 2013, 03:52:15.
Thread : Ecaflip  Preview message : #529843  Replies : 105  Views : 6592
posté April 22, 2013, 00:16:24 | #16
Ah now I understand what people were saying about resistance.


Thread : Ecaflip  Preview message : #529837  Replies : 4  Views : 480
posté April 21, 2013, 00:31:10 | #17
how does it currently work? Does the proc deal the correct damage based on the spell's current level and you water mastery? And when you said it doesn't heal even as water, do you mean that it doesn't heal at all, neither for the eca nor its allies?


Thread : Ecaflip  Preview message : #529235  Replies : 4  Views : 480
posté April 20, 2013, 13:10:59 | #18
Flealine Army crit? Has anyone been able to deal a critical hit with Flea Hopper cast via Flealine Army proc? I'm thinking since winning streak gives quite a lot of critical hit damage%, the heal might be significant if Flea Hopper crits even if you have 0 water gear.


Thread : Ecaflip  Preview message : #528877  Replies : 4  Views : 480
posté April 17, 2013, 01:17:45 | #19
For Roku, you round up number too much mate. The numbers ain't that high. The base of Flea Love (non-glyph) is like half of what you said, and that of the glyph version is about 2/3. The non-crit version only has 2 charges while the crit version has 3 charges.

For some others: All elemental damage% does not boost heal, only water damage% does.


Thread : Ecaflip  Preview message : #525423  Replies : 16  Views : 1407
posté April 16, 2013, 11:59:01 | #20

Quote (Troyle @ 16 April 2013 11:42) *

Quote (xibanga @ 16 April 2013 11:35) *
Well, new patch is up and myself and a few more ppl that i have talked. we're not given the quest or scroll to reset the skills.

Did you already have a Respec quest active before the maintenance?

Troyle, my Eca just picked up the respec quest (the one that requires gathering materials) from Jonk. This means that I didn't have that quest before the maintenance. This one is called Restate of Emergency. She doesn't get the free one.

My Rogue actually has 2 Restate of Emergency. One probably was the old version which does not require gathering materials and one that does. He ALSO gets the quest "A Classy Restat", which is the new free respec quest.

My new Enutrof only has the A Classy Restat quest. So only my Ecaflip, who didn't have any record of respec quest (other than she did use most of the respec quests given in recent patches) that didn't get the free quest: A Classy Restat.


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #523291  Replies : 52  Views : 2214