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Allow Osamoda's to exit Dragon form
Speechless Crobak * Member Since 2009-10-10
posté April 03, 2014, 06:23:46 | #1
Allow Osamoda's to exit Dragon form
Zerkers were given the option to dispell their transformed state, and I believe Osamoda's should be allowed to as well. As an Earth Osa I can DPT in Dragon form or play a more support role with my gobgob, but once I go Dragon I cannot perform that role anymore until the next fight.

I really see no reason to not allow this option as it allows a lot more flexibility for the class.


Thanks.
 


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2006-04-28
posté April 03, 2014, 09:15:00 | #2
Being able to unsummon would be nice as well. It ties in to the extent that you cannot transform to dragon while you have a summon out.


Dokushuuuuu * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté April 03, 2014, 11:32:28 | #3
+1
It should be done long time ago.


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2012-01-06
posté April 04, 2014, 08:55:09 | #4
A 1000 upvotes to this suggestion - Like Goblin has mentioned, a desummon for your pets should also be included as you effectively kill off earth and air 'mode' having one out.


This post has been edited by VoidSettler - April 04, 2014, 08:57:25.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-10-06
posté April 04, 2014, 09:43:46 | #5
I believe the reasoning was because the gobgob gets "consumed" upon transformation but the same could be said for drhellers

so I don't see a reason why it can't be a thing


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté April 08, 2014, 22:07:23 | #6
Osamodas gameplay should be changed to: always have gobgob in play or be fused with it.

What i mean is that i think its gobgob (your summon) that should "vomit" creatures from its belly and "swallow" them back if osamodas wants to turn to dragon. Then summoning gobgob on empty cell while in dragon form would break the fusion and osamodas would be able to summon its creatures with the help of the gobgob on the field.

Simple.


Speechless Crobak * Member Since 2009-10-10
posté April 14, 2014, 13:45:19 | #7

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 08 April 2014 22:07) *
Osamodas gameplay should be changed to: always have gobgob in play or be fused with it.

What i mean is that i think its gobgob (your summon) that should "vomit" creatures from its belly and "swallow" them back if osamodas wants to turn to dragon. Then summoning gobgob on empty cell while in dragon form would break the fusion and osamodas would be able to summon its creatures with the help of the gobgob on the field.

Simple.

That's a terrible idea because:

1) you would take a lot more damage through being linked with GobGob and
2) GobGob would have to be nerfed and I'm quite happy with the damage mine can do


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2012-01-12
posté April 14, 2014, 18:49:19 | #8

Quote (Agosta @ 14 April 2014 13:45) *

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 08 April 2014 22:07) *
Osamodas gameplay should be changed to: always have gobgob in play or be fused with it.

What i mean is that i think its gobgob (your summon) that should "vomit" creatures from its belly and "swallow" them back if osamodas wants to turn to dragon. Then summoning gobgob on empty cell while in dragon form would break the fusion and osamodas would be able to summon its creatures with the help of the gobgob on the field.

Simple.

That's a terrible idea because:

1) you would take a lot more damage through being linked with GobGob and
2) GobGob would have to be nerfed and I'm quite happy with the damage mine can do

Not too sure why you'd think that it'd be a terrible idea~ It doesn't "have" to be "balanced" the way you think it would. Given our developers track record, I can see why you'd think that they would nerf the gobgob... Wait, wait, you meant the idea of gobgob being on the field and being able to summon creatures at the same time like Tubba Blubba in the crow dungeon?

Yeah, Kiku, that's too much. Back in the day when Osamodas didn't have that new Osamodas blessing passive and when the Gobgob was nothing to even consider using since it was practically a joke, this idea would be more acceptable. However, now? There's no way it would work out in a balanced way. It'd just give the Osamodas an even greater toolset along with having raw summons running around with gobgob support. The double damage with gobgob out isn't even a thing worth mentioning as a negative though. Gobgobs support definetely outways any negative reprecussions of taking 1.5 more damage from aoe attacks.

I will say this though, the idea of using the gobgob spell while in dragon form (should just cost the 1 ap and not a wp in dragon form by the way) breaking the fusion is a great idea and would allow an osamodas to heal up after a rebirth or do other nice things during the fight. Being able to swap between a damage role and support role "freely" is a fantastic ability. "Most" classes are free to do this, so whynot osamodas... and by most classes, I mostly mean Drhellzerker Enutrofs.


This post has been edited by Christian-CAO - April 14, 2014, 19:19:05.
Reason for edit : '3'
Dokushuuuuu * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté April 14, 2014, 20:19:16 | #9
Quote
Quote
I will say this though, the idea of using the gobgob spell while in dragon form (should just cost the 1 ap and not a wp in dragon form by the way) breaking the fusion is a great idea and would allow an osamodas to heal up after a rebirth or do other nice things during the fight. Being able to swap between a damage role and support role "freely" is a fantastic ability. "Most" classes are free to do this, so whynot osamodas... and by most classes, I mostly mean Drhellzerker Enutrofs.
What would be the point of Gobgob summoner build if you could do the same in a dragon form with extra AP, dmg and res?


Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-12-02
posté April 14, 2014, 20:48:38 | #10
Indeed, being able to switch between forms at will would also help add tactics to the osa class. I'm a tri branch, so I definitely approve of this.  


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté April 15, 2014, 10:22:15 | #11
I would suggest some changes but this community is hopeless. People will either say " it would be overpowered" or "its too much" OR they will say "why you nerfed this or that!".

Read: We want changes but we don't want changes.


Dokushuuuuu * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté April 15, 2014, 10:31:45 | #12
Well, having both, Gobgob AND a summon out at once would be balanced in your opinion?
Not to mention that there would be no point in going only fire summoner build or only earth gobgob build, because you could just go earth and use both.


This post has been edited by Rokugatsu - April 15, 2014, 10:32:13.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté April 15, 2014, 10:53:25 | #13

Quote (Rokugatsu @ 15 April 2014 10:31) *
Well, having both, Gobgob AND a summon out at once would be balanced in your opinion?
Not to mention that there would be no point in going only fire summoner build or only earth gobgob build, because you could just go earth and use both.
You DO want me to suggest something right? you are the first kind of person, who say it would be overpowered. The point is that it would obviously need some changes in dmg and or resist and or AP costs or something else (range?), but for the balancing, fun gameplay and multiple purpose sake this would leads to some "nerfing", and other person will complain to NOT do that.

Of course the idea would work with the gobgob of the past, like someone have already noticed. The point is that this change would allow for multi element osamodas builds to be more viable and more .. flexible to use. The gobgob could be weak "by default" but spells cast on it by osamodas could be stronger. If osamodas wouldnt cast any spells on gobgob, then it would deal none or close to no dmg itself, it would just be a walking obstacle or maybe it could have ability to swap places with targets while doing no dmg to them (by default) and with dmg if osamodas cast earth spell on it (and perhaps better range added when osa "buffed" it).

The gobgob that deal no dmg itself "by default" and simply change earth spells of osamodas to water if osamodas cast them on it, would be as balanced as fire osamodas attacking with air or fire spells. The point is that earth spells would be then useful with other summons on the field thanks to gobgob present.

You see currently its fire or air dmg from osamodas + dmg of creatures summoned. Making it viable to use earth spells with their current effects on gobgob togather with the dmg of the summoned creatures but without the added dmg from gobgobs own spells, would make it balanced between each branch of osamodas. As long as earth spells are used to heal or shield, the fire are used to increase dmg or resist (or other stats) and air could be a sheer dmg dealing (dmg higher for osa spells) that doesnt buff summons at all (except whip cast on summon directly).

So it IS possible to balance this out, but not without some changes to gobgob, that someone will complain about not being able to cast that 1st spell of gobgob twice.

The only real drawback of this change would be that osamodas would have possibly 3 creatures on the field intstead of 2, but lets face it - its summons are already too good and some "no dmg dealing" obstacle would just make it harder to dodge them, and thats all (or block enemy in certain situations, though its possible even now). Therefore someone would ask for lock nerf or dmg nerf to osamodas creatures, and someone else will complain, even if osa will gain ability to make gobgob swallow back the summons for that sake.

You people either want fun or you are aiming for raw dmg and boring gameplay of spaming the same spells over again for the whole fight. In case you ask for the 2nd thing, don't ask for any changes as current osa is fine for you.


Dokushuuuuu * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté April 15, 2014, 11:04:51 | #14
Just because we don't agree with your changes doesn't mean we don't want any.
I love earth Osa now and it's very interesting build for me and I don't want to see it nerfed so that someone can make a summoner earth Osa with 2 summons and a Gobgob.

It's fire Osa that need big changes and let's work on that, without nerfing other builds.


This post has been edited by Rokugatsu - April 15, 2014, 11:06:38.
Soft Crackler * Member Since 2012-01-12
posté April 16, 2014, 06:36:34 | #15

Quote (Rokugatsu @ 14 April 2014 20:19) *
Quote
Quote
I will say this though, the idea of using the gobgob spell while in dragon form (should just cost the 1 ap and not a wp in dragon form by the way) breaking the fusion is a great idea and would allow an osamodas to heal up after a rebirth or do other nice things during the fight. Being able to swap between a damage role and support role "freely" is a fantastic ability. "Most" classes are free to do this, so whynot osamodas... and by most classes, I mostly mean Drhellzerker Enutrofs.
What would be the point of Gobgob summoner build if you could do the same in a dragon form with extra AP, dmg and res?

Not too sure what you're asking... The only thing here in my qoute being suggested is that you be able to swap from a support role (GobGob summoner) to a more damage oriented role ( earth dragon or air/earth dragon... or fire/ earth dragon.. hell, even just plain old tri dragon with an earth focus) when the time calls for it, nothing more. This may just be my inexperience with any high level content talking, but I'd think that being given another option in combat rather than sticking to one playstyle even if the situation doesn't call for you to hold that role, would be something "positive".

If you needed to spend your time healing or giving ap to others or moving people around or shielding folks and then suddenly something shifts in the battle and suddenly they need a bit more damage in the fight, I'd love to be able to swap over to dragon form to do that damage but then also have the option to switch back to a supporting role the next turn...or heck, if the ap calls for it I'd like to swap back over in the same turn.

I like the idea of being able to swap over between modes since it is indeed fair to be able to do it. The gobgob's spell effects leave the field when it leaves the battle (gobgob leaves the battle in dragon form). Using the gobgob spell on a cell would defuse the dragon osamodas and summon a gobgob ( I would like this action in dragon mode to only cost 1 ap instead of a wakfu point). That may seem a bit unfair to beable to summon gobgob without spending the wp but it's not summoning a gobgob so much as it is ripping the gobgob off your face and tossing it to the ground...maybe the action to cause damage.

Anyway, currently gobgob osamodas are perfectly ready and able to become earth dragons, but there is no way to swap around roles at all. So far an Osamodas has the option of choosing a tactic based on the needs of the battle, like everyone else ( this is from a tri builds perspective though I am currently a pure earth gobgob summoner with no investments in symbiosa or osamodas blessing) and sticking to that role till something dies or something happens. We cannot be everything at the same time, however we can pick and choose what to be when the time calls for it.

You can be a summoner osamodas and then swap to a gobgob summoner and then swap to dragon form mid battle. However, once you've choosen to opt into the dragon option in combat, it is the only mode style of combat that you are forced to stay in until death...or second death if you count the phoenix spirit passive.

Kikui, I like your ideas, but at the same time you've seen ankamas handy work when it comes to balancing things out. Not only that, but giving too many tools to work with can saturate and spoil certain creative aspects such as choosing a build. The reason why we have such differening playstyles that don't really link to one another is to give players an option and something unique to utilize. "restriction breeds creativity" or something like that, I honestly don't think that your ideas could be balanced, but it would make mixed builds very prominent, giving little merit to going with a mono build too much. I know you want more options for dual builds to have more sync in spells and ahving multiple options at your disposal, since that is fun. However, there always needs to be some kind of seperation involvved in our options to make our builds " mean" something. I mean, hoenstly, I tried to jack of all trades my characters, it's a mess, and nearly impossible for everyclass whose name isn't Enutrof. Honestly The best way to balance your idea would be to, as you said, alter the functions of our options... some suggestions about it could have small changes like these, for example

Gobgob
  • Normal as usual when alone on the field
  • When summon is on the field the gobgob's spells change
    • Black hole: When used on a summon it will devour the monster and refund the osamodas 1wp.
    • Armored command: unchanged
    • Speedy command: unchanged/ summons targeted gain a 25% initiative and dodge bonus (bringing them back to 100% of their original initiative and dodge)
    • Vital command: unchanged/ summons targeted gain a 45% resistance bonus (bringing them back to 100% or their original resistance)
    • Motivating command: Summons targeted by this spell gain 4 Ap and enter a frenzied state in which they target the closest enemy. The summon gains a lock boost of 25% and a 40% damage bonus ( bringing them back to 100% of their original lock and damage) and is Stabilized (cannot be teleported/ pushed) till the begining of their next turn. The summon will die at the end of their next turn. Summons under the motivated command state cannot be targeted by the gobgobs Blackhole spell.
    • Weakening command: unchanged
Summons
  • Normal when on the field alone/together in a group
  • When Gobgob is on the field, Osamodas Whips gob-up spell summons from the gobgobs position and utilizes the gobgobs range instead of the osamodas. Summons summoned from the gobgob have 55% hp and resistance at max level of gob-up. Their damage will be 60% at max while lock,dodge, and initiative can stay at 75%.
  • Osamodas can target the gobgob with the possession spell.
    • When gobgob is under possessed state it also controls any other summon in a 1-3 range of gobgob. ( to give some benefit of having the gobgob out with summons seeing as the summons will be nerfed a bit, though this may be too generous)
Dragon
  • Cannot become a dragon when a summon (except Gobgob) is in the battle
  • When in Dragon Form the osamodas can use the gobgob spell ( the cost in dragon form is now 1ap rather than 1ap+1wp) to summon a gobgob. This cancels the Dragon state and the osamodas takes 5% of their hp as damage (rather, the dragon state end before the gobgob is "summoned")
these are just examples though, I'm not saying this is the "right" way to balance things, nor am I saying that anyones ideas are "incorrect". There is no way for "everyone" to be happy when it comes to balancing things. If soemthing awesome gets blown out of the water then sure it's unsatisfactory, but if it is observed fairly and we can all see why changes were made then it's fine to alter things fo the "health" of the game and that specific class, I think. This is just how I'd invision them to balance things if they decided to give us more wriggle room in our in battle options...kind of... ' 3'

--Frey Haakon Erich


Dokushuuuuu * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté April 16, 2014, 10:12:37 | #16

Quote
Not too sure what you're asking... The only thing here in my qoute being suggested is that you be able to swap from a support role (GobGob summoner) to a more damage oriented role ( earth dragon or air/earth dragon... or fire/ earth dragon..
Then maybe I misunderstood, but this:

Quote
the idea of using the gobgob spell while in dragon form
sounds like Kiku wants to be able to use Gobgob spells while being in dragon form, which, like I said, would kill the purpose of summoner Gobgob build, because you could do the same as a dragon.

If that's not what he ment, then sorry.

I agree of course that we should be able to quit dragon form, that's what this topic is about.

I don't agree with using summons and Gobgob at the same time, we already have one class with a lot of summons being able to do both, support and dmg (Sadi), whats the point of making another one doing the exact same thing in the same way? Fire Osa should just focus on one, strong summon, like it does now, IMO.


Speechless Crobak * Member Since 2009-10-10
posté April 16, 2014, 12:34:24 | #17
Yeah this thread wasn't about revamping the entire class (i think it's pretty fucking great at the moment). You can't faithfully switch between support and damage unless you want to ignore Dragon completely at the moment. During most boss fights I play primary or secondary healer and sometimes i want to switch to dragon for raw DPT, but there's been instances where something goes wrong and my heals were needed and I couldn't do anything about it. On top of that if you die you rebirth in Dragon form still so you're still stuck.
 


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté April 17, 2014, 22:33:04 | #18
@Chirstian-CAO
I'd like those changes, not quite sure about the numbers given but overall this would be cool.
Except maybe just 1 thing that you could suggest in better (and easier) way:

Make summoning gobgob cost 1AP (maxed level, so no longer WP cost on it) and make Symbiosa cost WP instead. This way if we cast gobgob while in symbiosa we don't need the spell "Gobgob" to "not cost WP in that state" as it doesn't cost it already. Read: its simple change that could be done even with rebalancing that Ankama might do with any random patch (though making gobgob appear and the spell gobgob to be still available when we are in dragon form and transformation back to normal would still take some time to program obviously).

@Roku

Using gobgob spell (not " spells" of gobgob). Aka "active speciality 1: Gobgob".
This spell:

Not my fault Ankama named it that way. Just to add confusion in discussions, feedback and translations...

Anyway my idea was like Christian-CAO explained in details.

I also liked the idea to cast possesion on gobgob to posses summon near gobgob. Maybe casting it on gobogb would make gobgob "jump" on the summon and attach to it (though that would require new sprite per each creature that osa can have OR the "targeted by gobgob" pointer to appear above targeted summon (and then gobgob dissapear from the field as it is technically attached to possesed summon)). Such possesion could increase the stats of the possesed summon, though making it impossible for osamodas to use gobgob for earth spells in same time wich would change the gameplay of osa back to its current state but with 1 summon permanently controled due to gobgob attached to it. Calling gobgob again on empty cell should be also viable to make gobgob "return" to the battlefield and leave the possesed summon alone as it was before possesion.

Such possesion spell would make some logic: you control gobgob by default so if it jump on summon then it can take control of that summon (letting you control it). How awsome it would be to not need to cast Possesion spell every turn?


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - April 17, 2014, 22:35:21.