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Skill Point Reset Option
posté September 26, 2011, 10:19:26 | #1
Skill Point Reset Option As the thread says. Maybe it's a good idea to implement (at least for the beta, if it's not planned for release) an option to reset skill points, w/o being forced to wait the new patches and updates. As it is the game now, raising a new char is really slow and this would help the majority of players to experience more ways of playing their chars and give more accurate feedback on (not)working properly skills and features of the classes.


posté September 26, 2011, 15:30:18 | #2
Generally I agree with OP but I think giving an potion to simply reset all your skill points at will would be too much. Imagine players changing their build constantly, trying to outmatch their current enemy by creating an exotic build aimed to counter "that one dude, I want to beat on a duel". With that in mind, to allow players to play a different build of that same character without all that grind from lvl1 or to correct a small mistake in a current build, I was thinking about giving a limited number of resets(3-5) per character.


posté September 26, 2011, 15:46:51 | #3
maybe it should cost kamas say like 500 or sumthing therefore it would restric people from constantly reseting.


posté September 26, 2011, 16:02:05 | #4
There is already a lot topics for this.
Click here
Click here
Click here


This post has been edited by Yechnagoth - September 26, 2011, 16:02:51.
Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2011-09-19
posté September 26, 2011, 16:14:11 | #5

Quote (Siilk @ 26 September 2011 15:30) *
Generally I agree with OP but I think giving an potion to simply reset all your skill points at will would be too much. Imagine players changing their build constantly, trying to outmatch their current enemy by creating an exotic build aimed to counter "that one dude, I want to beat on a duel". With that in mind, to allow players to play a different build of that same character without all that grind from lvl1 or to correct a small mistake in a current build, I was thinking about giving a limited number of resets(3-5) per character.

Why is that a problem? lots of other games have that feature...i dont get why the dofus community is all so secret about their builds and things like that, is just childish and dumb, it works in the other games and it would work here, the only problem is that this is a french game.


posté September 26, 2011, 16:28:41 | #6
Other games =/= Wakfu. Games are different, and work in different ways. Ankama wants you to think about what to spend points in, and to keep that build all, or most of the time, and change only if you find it could be better, not change all the time.

WoW for example even have a system of many specs and switching between them any time, but that system only works well in WoW, not here.

Changing skills and points will be allowed, its just not in the game yet, and it won't be too easy.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2011-09-12
posté September 26, 2011, 17:04:17 | #7

Quote (Yechnagoth @ 26 September 2011 16:28) *
Other games =/= Wakfu. Games are different, and work in different ways. Ankama wants you to think about what to spend points in, and to keep that build all, or most of the time, and change only if you find it could be better, not change all the time.

WoW for example even have a system of many specs and switching between them any time, but that system only works well in WoW, not here.

Changing skills and points will be allowed, its just not in the game yet, and it won't be too easy.

I totally agree with Yechnagoth here, Wakfu and Ankama's greater strenght point are always been the strategy and the amount of thinking hidden between a single skill points, to keep players interested with dozen of possible builds you have to develop with your sweat and your mistakes.
Trying all possible combination of spells for every character in a couple days would just draw my interest off the game, you'd just need to have a single character of every class.


posté September 26, 2011, 20:06:08 | #8
I'll generally say no, even if it's only for beta and removed for the final release. Beta is not the stage where you get to try out all the possible character combinations to find the most powerful one. It's the phase where you find bugs and the most obvious balance and design issues, and we have enough players to do this. This is especially true in a game like Wakfu, where your character development decisions do not affect what you can and cannot do, but rather influence the order in which he gains competence in his different abilities.
Also, Wisdom. This stat, combined with an ability to reset your attributes allows relatively easy powerlevelling.


Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2011-08-28
posté September 28, 2011, 08:41:15 | #9
I totally agree with Grichmann ...

Dofus .. U can only use 1 time reset by dopple ... or Magical Orb... its not ez .. =P


Then if u want test ur char why not a server only for atking dummies at maxed lvl with NPC selling all items ? then there u could test your hit ^^ or maybe if in that Dummie place some ppl u could try challenge him for try ... not for something more ^^


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2007-03-08
posté September 28, 2011, 11:07:09 | #10
I'm for easy stat changes.

In case anyone didn't know, I'm a fan of Guild Wars, where the system allowed you to change almost anything (except your primary class) within a few seconds when you were in town, but as soon as you stepped out, your stuff "locked". Diablo 3 is adopting a similar system, etc. Even Final Fantasy Tactics has this to some degree.

It's a simple advantage, rather than being stuck playing the same character for 200 levels, having to plan ahead (+1 AP takes 30 levels of doing nothing, etc). you get to play what you want to play "right now", any "build mistakes" are fixable/tweakable without dumping the character or slogging through some repetitive quest.

Fixating on a "perfect build" before you even start playing the character ruins the ability to experiment with your character. It's like trying on new shoes, rather than amputating your feet.

I don't think it damages longevity of the game either. I don't think everyone's exactly enthusiastic about playing the same handful of skills for 200 levels. You can argue that it's because 200 levels is stupidly high, or you can argue that it's because you're stuck with the same skills (35 in total for 1 class is relatively tiny). Since Ankama are obsessed with 200 cap, they might as well allow for players to be more flexible on the way up so the game remains "fresh".

Think about it as equipment. Would you honestly say "you've picked your equipment, now you're stuck with it for 200 levels". Skills can be just the same, there's no reason why you can't equip/unequip them where you feel a change is appropriate.

Trying to fight Tofu? switch to that teleport skill so you can chase them down. Trying to fight gobball? Switch to that tanking skill. The monsters aren't going to be "flexible" about how they fight you because they're dumb. The only way you really "change" your opponent is by levelling up until you need to fight something different for better XP. As it is, the only real option now is to stick with tactics irrelevant of your chosen skills (all melee classes have to "lure" tofu to counter their hit&run AI, etc).

Experimenting on the test servers, etc, means nothing when it comes to a real character. Because with a real character you still have 200 levels of your "build" to grind through. You're destined to be stuck with the same tactics over and over.

Nobody is asking for you to be able to change your skills right in the middle of a fight, just before a gobball kills you. The only "tactics" this game has are those you chose to adopt in the fight, not the 200 levels getting there. The difficulty of reaching that point is irrelevant, in the same way that what you ate for breakfast is irrelevant. If you get the option to prep for specific enemies, that you will be fighting at your exact level, right now, you have more tactics, not less.

How to limit it? Make it so you can only change by talking to an allied CM. That's a long walk to any fight, especially if you're planning to enter a hostile nation's territory, or a dungeon.


This post has been edited by GoldfishGod - September 28, 2011, 11:23:52.
posté September 28, 2011, 12:37:09 | #11
I like Guild Wars' system in that regard, but let's not use that as an argument. They're different games (Albeit they do have a lot of similarities), and what works there might not work here and vice versa.
For one, the thing with GW, you're only able to use 8 abilities at the same time out of a repertoire of hundreds, some of which will simply not work against the opponents you're going to face - that is the whole point of the game. Choosing your spells and skills before each match is kind of like picking your weapons in a shooter. In Wakfu, you have a repertoire of 20 spells (+5 passive mastery skills) that you can use at any time: the only way for you to go into a fight without a spell you'd like to have is logging in with an entirely wrong character, which is not so likely.
Also, if I'm counting this right, by level 200 (Which really is ridiculously high, no arguing that) you'll have enough skill points to have all your mastery skills at maximum level, so your decisions here pretty much only change the order you gain competence... I've said that already. It's a bit harder with attributes, but even there you'll probably eventually max out the ones you'd want to max out, and get enough in the rest to stop bothering. Again, this affects order more than it does capability. And you can already modify your stats to some extent via equipment - there's obviously going to be more sets to choose from for every given level as the game progresses, and you can already boost your mastery skills with those Hoodlum items.
And a third thing, raising your character's abilities in a certain order means he'll be strong against some opponents his own level and weak against others. This promotes high-level cooperation with others (High-level meaning indirect here - you ask a guild mate to fight monsters that drop an item you want, but are strong against your specific set-up), even within the same class. Sure, it'll make you work less well with some partners than with others, but that's actually nice. Gives you an identity and what not.
Wakfu is more about adapting what you can do and what you have to the situation and finding situations where you'll shine than it is about changing entirely and doing perfectly in every situation your character's class allows.

I'm not completely against changing your stats, but I'd rather keep it a costly and/or slow process. Maybe you can only reset once every 10 days. Or maybe you can reset up to 10% of your total skill/attribute points (Rounded up to the nearest 5) each day.
Also, wisdom. What's stopping you from putting all your points there, getting powerlevelled (Yeah, it's a bit tricky to powerlevel someone in Wakfu. Where isn't it?) to 200, then resetting to a PvP-dominator build?


posté September 28, 2011, 16:14:35 | #12
To add to this, you guys(those, who wants easy points reset) are forgetting about one important thing: spells. Most of them, except for 10 support spells, are spell exp-based and level up independently. That means, even if you redistribute all your support spell points and character points, all your elemental spells would stay the same, meaning you wouldn't be able to create a "completely different build", like in GW, but rather same build with different support spells, which is hardly as attractive as you think complete points redistribution would be.


This post has been edited by Siilk - September 28, 2011, 16:20:06.
posté September 28, 2011, 16:52:25 | #13

Quote (Grichmann @ 28 September 2011 12:37) *
I like Guild Wars' system in that regard, but let's not use that as an argument. They're different games (Albeit they do have a lot of similarities), and what works there might not work here and vice versa.
For one, the thing with GW, you're only able to use 8 abilities at the same time out of a repertoire of hundreds, some of which will simply not work against the opponents you're going to face - that is the whole point of the game. Choosing your spells and skills before each match is kind of like picking your weapons in a shooter. In Wakfu, you have a repertoire of 20 spells (+5 passive mastery skills) that you can use at any time: the only way for you to go into a fight without a spell you'd like to have is logging in with an entirely wrong character, which is not so likely.
Also, if I'm counting this right, by level 200 (Which really is ridiculously high, no arguing that) you'll have enough skill points to have all your mastery skills at maximum level, so your decisions here pretty much only change the order you gain competence... I've said that already. It's a bit harder with attributes, but even there you'll probably eventually max out the ones you'd want to max out, and get enough in the rest to stop bothering. Again, this affects order more than it does capability. And you can already modify your stats to some extent via equipment - there's obviously going to be more sets to choose from for every given level as the game progresses, and you can already boost your mastery skills with those Hoodlum items.
And a third thing, raising your character's abilities in a certain order means he'll be strong against some opponents his own level and weak against others. This promotes high-level cooperation with others (High-level meaning indirect here - you ask a guild mate to fight monsters that drop an item you want, but are strong against your specific set-up), even within the same class. Sure, it'll make you work less well with some partners than with others, but that's actually nice. Gives you an identity and what not.
Wakfu is more about adapting what you can do and what you have to the situation and finding situations where you'll shine than it is about changing entirely and doing perfectly in every situation your character's class allows.

I'm not completely against changing your stats, but I'd rather keep it a costly and/or slow process. Maybe you can only reset once every 10 days. Or maybe you can reset up to 10% of your total skill/attribute points (Rounded up to the nearest 5) each day.
Also, wisdom. What's stopping you from putting all your points there, getting powerlevelled (Yeah, it's a bit tricky to powerlevel someone in Wakfu. Where isn't it?) to 200, then resetting to a PvP-dominator build?
I agree with Grichmann here. Its not like you will never ever be able to change anything up to 200 (and when you are 200, it won't matter much anyways, unless you screwed up really bad), never being able to change anything is even a little dumb, specially if you consider new players, since they might not know what to do and will likely want to reset later, but making it easy... Its what Grichmann already said, it doesn't fit the game. I too played WoW and there you even have set specs to switch between, I would even like if there was 3 specs to choose there, and not 2, but this works for WoW, it doesn't work for Wakfu or Dofus, in WoW you want to be the best in what you are doing, and there are very very specific skills, like some that only work against players and others that only work against monsters. So you need a different spec for everything or be a baddie, and then there are 3 specs to choose from for each class, some change gameplay entirely, like from a healer to a tank or a DPS, but its not like this for Wakfu, not even remotely, though some skills may be situational its not at the same level of those of other games, they shouldn't be compared.
Dofus and Wakfu are based on the aspect that you can't change your skills easily. (And then there's what Siik pointed out, you can't reset your main skills, you'd have to level them all again if you were to switch specs entirely)


This post has been edited by Yechnagoth - September 28, 2011, 16:56:58.
posté October 06, 2011, 15:13:20 | #14
Another thing which I expect will be made available for purchase through Ogrines in the final product.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2013-04-07
posté August 10, 2013, 07:38:11 | #15
I would really like that since I made a mistake on my spells that it will really hurt my character if I use the points unwisely!
Ouch! That has got to hurt! My heart has been hurting since the mistake of redistributing points unwisely that my fire and wind spells are low! That Earth boss will really kill me to death while sending out his earth creatures! It really hurts! :'(
I would really like the new system to come in! Please!
Thank You!-Archaimi


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2012-03-13
posté August 10, 2013, 17:02:20 | #16
nice necro bump mate

if you're not aware there's already respec system in game, you can either:
ask your nation Jonk for quest
or Click here