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VoidSettler's profile
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Member Since : 2012-01-06
345 Posts (0.19 per day)
Most active in : General Discussion
posté January 19, 2017, 14:26:41 | #1

Quote (Crimson-Cowboy @ 18 January 2017 23:16) *

Quote (VoidSettler @ 18 January 2017 03:26) *

Quote (RaderElcaroman @ 16 January 2017 19:13) *
hushquarter anyone?

Yeah, its currently listed as a lvl 111 dungeon - which I actually feel is a pretty fair place for it to be given its difficulty. However, this is of course not very representative of its XP/Loot. At lvl 96 soon (As listed in the next upcoming patch), I would definitely avoid this dungeon too. Master Shhhudoku's mechanics and damage output are just way too brutal.

Its pure irony even looking at the soon-to-be lvl 96 dungeon list. Ignoring all the now redundant Whisper Island dungeons and UB/Merkator, you're left with the following four normal dungeons:

- Dancehall Arena
- Yech'ti'Wawa
- Jelly Dungeon
- Hushquarters

With the exception of the Dancehall Arena, I would not see myself entering any of those until lvl 100 at the very least, which is a pretty relevant turning point for a character's possible effectiveness. Jelly Dungeon and Hush feel like they would fit the lvl 111 range of dungeons, and Yech'ti' something 'in-between' (I was pretty close putting that dungeon on my list as well, but there are cheap but doable mechanics for it I guess)
can you even get into yetchiwawa at 96?

Not sure when the Zaap auto-activates for the area, but you could theoretically sneak into the area as a Hero at the very least. But yeah, I don't think you can climb down to the Snowbound Village yet until lvl 100 - pretty clumsy design xD


This post has been edited by VoidSettler - January 23, 2017, 01:26:01.
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #996182  Replies : 50  Views : 1584
posté January 18, 2017, 21:15:31 | #2

Quote (Xillor-The-Shadow @ 18 January 2017 19:22) *
as far as I can tell, this list mostly just consists of dungeons that make it impossible to use your character's mechanics.

Dy7, I suggest focusing your future dungeon mechanics around the player's freedom to do what they want to be able to do. The problem with "stressful" dungeons comes when the dungeon's mechanics overshadow the player's "class" mechanics or in many cases, the combination of the dungeon's mechanics + the class mechanics = too many mechanics stacked up ontop of one another creates clunky game design

The mechanic thing is especially a problem in dungeon past lvl 100 I think, with a few lower level exceptions here and there (Stalagmotel)

Most pre-lvl 100 dungeons with problems just have numerical balance problems or all-round insane mechanics.. or at worse both (Orrok)

Although its best to fully describe what makes a dungeon horrible for Dy7, you could theoretically rate a dungeon's problems based on:

- Statistical Difficulty (Damage/Resistance too high on the monsters/boss)
- Mechanical Complexity (Are the mechanics of the monsters/boss/dungeon too harsh or frustrating/time consuming)
- Role Exclusion/Neccesity (Are there specific classes or roles that simply cannot even function at all within a dungeon, or perhaps a dungeon can only function with a specific class/role at all).

Most problematic dungeons will have one of these problems - The worst of the worst dungeons might fall under multiple.


This post has been edited by VoidSettler - January 23, 2017, 01:26:01.
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #996111  Replies : 50  Views : 1584
posté January 18, 2017, 04:02:38 | #3
Hmmm, something worked on for quite some time.. and really massive..

This smells like Nation Revamps.. please let it be the nation revamps! \ o /  


Thread : News  Preview message : #996030  Replies : 14  Views : 668
posté January 18, 2017, 03:26:45 | #4

Quote (RaderElcaroman @ 16 January 2017 19:13) *
hushquarter anyone?

Yeah, its currently listed as a lvl 111 dungeon - which I actually feel is a pretty fair place for it to be given its difficulty. However, this is of course not very representative of its XP/Loot. At lvl 96 soon (As listed in the next upcoming patch), I would definitely avoid this dungeon too. Master Shhhudoku's mechanics and damage output are just way too brutal.

Its pure irony even looking at the soon-to-be lvl 96 dungeon list. Ignoring all the now redundant Whisper Island dungeons and UB/Merkator, you're left with the following four normal dungeons:

- Dancehall Arena
- Yech'ti'Wawa
- Jelly Dungeon
- Hushquarters

With the exception of the Dancehall Arena, I would not see myself entering any of those until lvl 100 at the very least, which is a pretty relevant turning point for a character's possible effectiveness. Jelly Dungeon and Hush feel like they would fit the lvl 111 range of dungeons, and Yech'ti' something 'in-between' (I was pretty close putting that dungeon on my list as well, but there are cheap but doable mechanics for it I guess)


This post has been edited by VoidSettler - January 23, 2017, 01:26:01.
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #996027  Replies : 50  Views : 1584
posté January 17, 2017, 18:57:21 | #5

Quote (Sabi @ 17 January 2017 18:03) *
Hi guys,

The only threads mostly moved are the technical issues ones, which are being looked at by the team, and also are answered prior to do so. Therefore they will not loose any visibility and a link to them always stays in the original forum from where they originated as well.

I hope this helps explain a bit more what we do with those threads. ^.^


Quote (ValvatorezSr @ 17 January 2017 14:03) *
You already know this is gonna get moved LOL. My money is on Sabi posting on this then moving it to player suggestions

No, this thread is a general discussion thread, as even if it may have a suggestion aspect, it is also more to bring up a feedback to us and for me to explain why we do move threads at times, and to discuss it together, so it is fine to stay here.

Indeed as the poster before me mentioned, I am the person that made the 'Horrible Dungeons Compilation' thread. Its not exactly a suggestions thread, given the intent of the thread is to simply reflect as a community what we believe to be problems - Yet in no way is the thread's main aim to suggest or request specifics. I mean surely, we would love for that, given everyone wants to see problems fixed - That would make any bug report a suggestion as well though.

I would humbly request to have my thread be brought back to the general thread, as the main goal of the thread is to collect/analyze data from the userbase on what they consider to be problematic dungeons without neccesarely suggesting what they would like to have instead.


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #995965  Replies : 12  Views : 342
posté January 16, 2017, 21:00:13 | #6

Quote (ByAllMeans @ 16 January 2017 20:19) *
Honestly, almost all of these dungeons are super hard for a reason: they were end-game dungeons at one point (Wild Tofu, Orrok, Stalagmotel are notable exceptions).

Nowadays, people aren't getting end-game-quality gear at level 100 — they're kinda powerleveling through that range. That means most 100s aren't running around with relic/epics, 11+ap, and 500+ damage. Most level 100 teams don't have a good feca locker, and aren't recruiting teams using a whole lot of strategy.

I'm not sure what the answer to that is, except maybe add some alternatives. Stasis means you can run even the "hard" dungeons at a dumbed-down level, so maybe it's okay that there are some unreasonable ones.

The adjustable level system also leaves something to be desired here: the automatic stats are just pathetic for some level ranges. I guess the goal is to get people to buy more stat pages and make custom builds for lower levels.

It's probably coincidental though - I think the problem is simply quality control on their behalf. There's a lot of dungeons that were created as the then-current 'end dungeon' that are way too difficult (Hagen Daz/Jelly/Lenald), but there are just as many lower level dungeons that got added over time that are insane (Stalagmotel/Miseryeum/Grand Orrok etc).

Though starting with The Jelly Dungeon, the whole relic collecting part becomes a thing, which kind of causes dungeons to be run by groups that are overqualified for it anyway. The Jelly Dungeon still threathens me more than say The Frozen Tower though, despite being classified as lvl 96 now.

I will assume they don't run any analytics for dungeon performances (wishful thinking here), but perhaps just tweaking numbers a bit on mobs or dungeon mechanics where people generally feel they are needed would be something they could do.


This post has been edited by VoidSettler - January 23, 2017, 01:26:01.
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #995830  Replies : 50  Views : 1584
posté January 16, 2017, 20:11:22 | #7
Added Hagen Daz to my list!


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #995817  Replies : 50  Views : 1584
posté January 16, 2017, 17:16:18 | #8

Quote (Kynaran @ 16 January 2017 16:57) *
Pretty spot on about all those dungeons. I recall the devs commenting that they will have to adjust the difficulty/xp reward of certain dungeons now that they have been clustered together in the new level ranges. So hopefully they take a look at threads like this.

For comparison, Grand Orrok used to be a lvl 81 dungeon iirc and even then it was one of the toughest dungeons for its level. How on Earth they thought it was a good idea to put it in the lvl60 range is beyond me.

Surprised you didn't give a mention of the Wild Tofu dungeon! The mechanics, especially the 300 res bonus when you damage a tofu who has "enough allies nearby", make the dungeon a real pain and not at all realistic to do for gear unless you're a high level char gearing an alt. A pity because it has some really nice gear and an epic.

Besides difficulty, I think XP also needs a balance. Across all the lower level ranges the xp rewards are completely inconsistent. Cro Cave for example simply gives better XP than anything else in its level range and even a good few dungeons above it. Dark Hurl dungeon is the same for its level range - it simply outshines any other dungeon for its level when it comes to XP

I'll admit, I only tried the Wild Tofu Dungeon once so far, had been away from Wakfu for a bit and kind of missed out on its existance - But then, that's why everyone can chime in on this thread - Best to elaborate on what makes a dungeon so crazy for its intended level of course, as I am hoping Dy7 might for instance read into these complaints. Dungeon rebalance has basically never ever happened, and I am hoping that's mostly because complaints about them are spread out too much, and not as common as say Class complaints.

Hagen Daz I totally missed out on though for sure, I will add some updates to the top thread later on when back home!
Brrrbli is annoying, but fairly doable with certain classes added at proper Initiative (Sacrier to swap, or Owlbax).

And yeah the Tofu dungeon I think is just too much for a level 12 dungeon. I mean sure, with an advanced, well equipped group of people at around lvl 20 you can run the dungeon, but that kind of beats the purpose still - By that time, is there really a reason you would still want to do the dungeon? Its main purpose should be to provide Tofu equipment.
There was really nothing wrong with the boss in its old design, mechanic wise.

btw, there's also a couple of old dungeons that are simply way too easy now, boringly so (Like the flower dungeon) - But I'm almost scared to ask for a revamp if they simply don't seem to actually playtest any dungeon properly.


This post has been edited by VoidSettler - January 23, 2017, 01:26:01.
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #995794  Replies : 50  Views : 1584
posté January 16, 2017, 15:05:55 | #9
Dungeons Rebalancing Need Compilation Having recently been helping some more new people out to experience Wakfu, downleveling myself to their level and all, I realized again just how some dungeons are in their design. I mean sure, old news of course - especially at higher levels, but the amount of 'what the hell' is quite apparent in lower level dungeons as well.

With that said, let's form a thread to compile the dungeons we all feel need a hefty bit of rebalancing - We are talking about dungeons who's designated level range and rewards are not in tune with their difficulty! (Try them at their appropriate lvl!)

My hope is that perhaps, who knows, they will finetune some of these listed dungeons by simply downscaling some values or mechanics, as to make them more enjoyable/feasible for their intended level:

Add your complaints here too!

=========

Tofu Dungeon (LVL 12)

- Nothing wrong with the dungeon itself, but there's definitely something wrong with the boss for its intended level! Comparing the Tofu Boss with its floofy thematic brother, the Gobball Boss, it becomes quite clear that they might have gone a bit overboard designing this screeching bird!
Dealing crazy amounts of damage, with high movement, good resistance and HP, the most horrible features of the boss would be its 'anti'-Wakfu Mechanic, where it buffs its damage by dropping resistance, and healing up a bit. Perhaps fine, were it not to have a gigantic radius AoE that deals massive damages and pushes everything near him away.

See, when I entered this dungeon with a new player, I even had to explain what 'WAKFU CONSUMPTION' is to begin with. Having such a harsh, unforgiveable mechanic in a starter dungeon without any explanation given feels sloppy and unintuitive. Though even disregarding the Wakfu mechanic, his Area of Effect attack is way too powerful and manipulative with its crazy push - Most people only have like 3 movement points and short attack ranges at such level, way too little for strategic placement to avoid the bird's constant wrath.

Verdict: If you were hoping to collect your Royal Tofu parts, perhaps start reconsidering it: On average, the only way to survive this dungeon is by being massively overleveled and fully geared already! They need to tone down the boss' mechanic and/or damage.
Actual expected difficulty tier: lvl 21 dungeon.

=========

Temple of the Grand Orrok (LVL 61)

- My personal pick for the worst dungeon designed in Wakfu - Nothing in this dungeon makes much sense for its designated level.
All the monsters inside seem insanely resistant and deal way too much damage - On top of all of this they apply nasty poisons you can hardly protect yourself against.. mixed in with one of the most claustrophobic room mechanics ever (If you stand in a straight line of one of the side totems, they reel you in all the way across the map, into more poison zones)

If you do somehow manage to get your level 61+ party all the way to the end, prepare yourself for the most grueling experience ever! Grand Orrok!
Lots of different theories float around as to how this boss works, but most commonly you will read about 'party wipes', even on massively outleveled groups (Been there, done that myself!). Well, here's how it really works:
You are stuck in a cramped area surrounded by lots of already overpowered birds, way too many almost indestructible totems, and a boss that seems to occassionely spawn some more totems that either hurt or apply more poison... Did I say poison?

Yes, Poison is all that matters in this dungeon. All the monsters seem to inflict it, the sides that you might get sucked into apply it.. the extra totems the boss summons apply it.. OH, and just for fun the boss can just apply everyone some more poison for the heck of it every X turns.

And that's where it all goes wrong. If the poison itself doesn't already kill you, Orrok 'simply will'. Reaching 5 levels of Poison will cause him to effectively disintegrate you, not even leaving you a chance to be resurrected. It might look like he just deals a lot of damage, but in reality you're just snuffed out - Not even a Feca can resist this wrath.

Verdict: Stay the hell away unless you truly must, and do so ensuring you can simply take Orrok out fast. The whole boss mechanic is effectively designed around time.. time that is not given to any party of adequate level. They need to tone down all the monsters and the instant-kill mechanic.. or just everything for all I care!
Actual expected difficulty tier: Masochistic lvl 81 dungeon on Stasis 21.

=========

Miseryeum (LVL 81)

- This dungeon mostly has one problem going for it, and that would be the rediculous design on one specific monster inside, the Flatissiers. They just deal way too much damage without really having much of a setback!
Sure, those owl-dog things also deal an enormous amount of damage.. that is, if they start a turn (other than the first) without someone near them, but this can be mechanically averted (and is actually pretty fun)
Those Flatissiers however really need to be toned down, as they are basically the sole reason why I generally avoid this dungeon at its intended level range.

The boss is murderous, buffing itself for every enemy you take out in the dungeon (aka, all Flatissiers must die so she gets those buffs at least), and seems to occassionely devour people entirely up close.. but.. I still think she's pretty ok in design were it not for the other problems.

Verdict: By the time you feel powerful enough for this dungeon, you will not be interested in its rewards anymore. The damage output or resistance on some of its minions really needs to be dropped to have it be a fair experience.
Actual expected difficulty tier: 81 on lvl 21 Stasis / 96

=========

Hagen Daz's Pot (LVL 111)

- Admittedly, not a dungeon I have done a lot, and perhaps for all the good reasons. This dungeon is overwhelmed by frustrating game mechanics that are way too demanding and leave little wiggle room for options. If in my honourable mentions I would pick on the Jelly Dungeon for throwing tactics out of the window, this dungeon would, no pun intended, put the icing on the cake!
Filled to the (b)rink with monsters that need to be hit with specific elements only, horrible status effects and frustrating targeting problems, the coldest move has yet to be its boss, Hagen Daz, with an insanely frostrating mechanic in where it needs its immunity be removed purely through collission damage.

While I personally do think Grand Orrok is the worst balanced dungeon, and the hardest for its intended level, it can at least be easilly and less frustratingly be finished by high level players. Hagen Daz, considered to be the worst by a lot of players as well, is simply frustrating even when severely outleveling it. Be warned!

Verdict: Don't enter this dungeon unless you were planning to do anything else for the night, and even then, make sure to have specific classes at the ready 'only'. Hagen Daz discriminates with poorly thought out mechanics exclusive only to a select few and leaves no alternatives to beat it. Add insanely frustrating and hard monsters to the mix, and you will likely only ever want to play this dungeon once, if at all.
Actual expected difficulty tier: Unsure. This dungeon is simply not fun to play at all.

=========

[Honourable Mentions]:

Stalagmotel

- Have not done this dungeon in a while, but my last memory of it is that I did not even make it to the final boss.. that dungeon felt incredibly frustrating and way too extreme.


Wild Gobball Dungeon/The Beast's Lair? (I think)

- Those Warchiefs still deal way too insane an amount of collission damage, or I could say, damage overall. There's a reason they are a must-have for every Osamodas at that level. The boss is frustrating but somewhat doable.. if the extras were not that insane.


Jelly Dungeon

- Always still consider this dungeon way too hard for its intended level, but perhaps it was meant as a lvl 100 'final dungeon' at some point in the past. All of the jellies just have unforgiving mobility, area of effect and damage output. The whole dungeon is effectively brainless, with most form of strategy thrown out of the window, replaced by the need for survivability and high DPS. In a way very sloppy and sadistic design, where you will start feeling that only a few classes truly matter. I'm sure this trend can be highlighted by other players in even higher level dungeons.


This post has been edited by [Sabi] - January 23, 2017, 01:26:01.
Reason for edit : [Forums Rules of Conduct: content + Title Change]
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #995775  Replies : 50  Views : 1584
posté January 10, 2017, 16:58:21 | #10
I know they 'can' perform quite well, but I honoustly find the Xelor's last revamp one of the worst myself too - Some of the mechanics that worked from the Xelor 'before' the current one were completely discarded as if they had never existed (like Fire's AoE changes during Tick/Tock), and water as a mechanic feels incredibly sloppy/clumsy in design, both to drain and provide AP (It used to feel so good)

I honoustly always felt that the Xelor was one of the best designed classes before the Deck system, and that a lot of the current changes applied to them felt forced without even acknowledging that the class was loved the way they were.


Thread : General  Preview message : #995119  Replies : 28  Views : 846
posté January 06, 2017, 15:00:49 | #11
Compiled Wishlist For Class Changes We just stepped into a new year, and there have been some tidbits of information in regards to them going to overlook classes (especially the unpopular ones), applying a little bit more 'paint' to them in regards to their balance.

Perhaps we can assemble this thread for the likes of Dy7 in which experienced players compile which abilities or entire mechanics/builds on classes just don't seem to function,or those that don't feel right at all.


I'm sure everyone has their own opinions on the matter of course, but some opinions seem to be very universally shared, like the recurring complaints in regards to say the Huppermage's design and the Sacrier's deck-system revamp - Or perhaps the current issue in which practically every tank build on a class is highly inferior in their functionality in comparison to a Feca.
Even on classes considered to be effective, some entire builds or mechanics might simply be very unpopular for all the right reasons - Those can be highlighted as well!


Prefered would be to keep the syntax easy to read and compact, as oppossed to making full lists of every little change you would want on every single individual spell (Those are best placed in the individual class subforums). The point is to raise awereness on classes/element mechanics/abilities where truly needed.

----------------------

I'll start off with the Enutrof, though I can't speak of end-level experience in Wakfu myself:

[Enutrof]
- Still feels like a class that sacrifices a lot of their potential in both their DPS/Utility just for the sake of their Pouch mechanic. Perhaps have some of their passives 'mute' or change their Pouch mechanic to enable better combat functionality.
- Water, though improved since the Deck system, still feels incredibly uninspired and boring with basically no thoughtful interactions. Cutting also still feels out-of-place as a melee skill, something an Enutrof basically only does when Drhellzerking (And thus cannot use it anyway)
- Earth/Drhellzerking feels like a tank mode that lacks the additional mechanics for being sturdy or keeping things focussed/in place well enough - In fact, in terms of options it really doesn't have a lot to begin with.


This post has been edited by VoidSettler - January 23, 2017, 01:26:01.
Thread : General  Preview message : #994742  Replies : 28  Views : 846
posté January 02, 2017, 15:13:49 | #12
That whole island is probably in need of a redesign by now, as 80% of its content and questline has become redundant with the last update.

Admittedly I'm happy about the easier access to the Hushquarters, though I did enjoy the questlines and conceptual theme there.


Thread : Suggestions  Preview message : #994164  Replies : 3  Views : 329
posté January 02, 2017, 15:06:05 | #13
As part of the inventory problems that have been mentioned here already, another associated problem I would really like for them to focus on would be:

A way better way to buy/sell goods!

The current limited auction board and Haven Bag system for selling feels archaic and clumsy, and is likely the biggest cause for there not being a functional marketplace for most common goods. Its less a hassle to throw away items than to sell them.

Simply remove the restriction or tie your haven bag slots with auction board slots (And make it function even when online).
Provide easier access to the auction boards as well by either making it an interface button or a craftable item for your haven bag!


Thread : Suggestions  Preview message : #994163  Replies : 36  Views : 1799
posté December 29, 2016, 21:38:05 | #14
I'm pretty excited! - I personally enjoy the graphics as well even in their current state (and they have stated still going to tweak things).
I'm also totally ok with there being way more character customization, even if its at the cost of (most) equipment not showing. I mean to be fair, I'm basically non-stop using costumes in Wakfu anyway instead of showcasing my equipment. Plus, the idea of elements changing your look is pretty nifty: That Earth Iop concept design is wonderful!

I wonder if their idea to have smaller maps has to do with them trying to close the gap more between melee/range characters.


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #993764  Replies : 71  Views : 4116
posté December 19, 2016, 15:26:00 | #15
They should 'at least' provide a solution for those having lost irretrievable items, like the Seal of Companionship. One solution would be to simply add the Seal to the Almanax Dispensor for free, and letting it have a Prerequisite to be worn (All gathering kills at lvl 100). Simply wiping this problem under the rug with a compensation while some people have permanent damage on their characters is indeed, unforgiveable, especially when the problem can be restored with a little bit of deserved effort.


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #992282  Replies : 56  Views : 1227
posté December 19, 2016, 14:59:28 | #16
So far I have been having a blast with the Mimiks - Dropped a Krosmunster and a Bilby from them, and some good runes.  


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #992277  Replies : 6  Views : 634
posté December 17, 2016, 00:03:00 | #17
Did everyone already get their missing Miner's Boxes items returned to them then? I checked all my characters on my main account, yet none of them had the missing Gemstones delivered.


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #991969  Replies : 13  Views : 454
posté December 13, 2016, 15:58:58 | #18
That's a pretty nifty idea, those run overrides!

I guess that means we can hopefully soon see idle-stance or sit overrides too?  


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #991359  Replies : 25  Views : 1280
posté December 07, 2016, 23:17:56 | #19
The intent was not just to add unbeatable end-game dungeons of course, but to also allow higher level players to re-experience lower level dungeons at a boosted difficulty. I mean, that lvl 50 difficulty will obviously work to amplify lower level dungeons with. Its just an unfortunate side-effect that the upscaling is causing things to go into extremes beyond the player's power. Though who knows what they'll add along eventually


Thread : Devblogs  Preview message : #990628  Replies : 31  Views : 1277