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Sadi Changes - Plants, Dolls and Bramble Armor
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté December 16, 2013, 16:19:58 | #1
Sadi Changes - Plants, Dolls and Bramble Armor I agree in a lot of points with you Cuddle, in fact it's difficult to find Sadis around that have the same opinion as yours. I think that Sadidas are not fully oriented to be played with dolls, the same way osas should not be fully based in summons. Dolls should not be excluded from the game though, in fact they need some buff but the non doll oriented builds also do not need to be excluded.
I'll update my ideas now to the full version, I've changed some of the spells in order to avoid changing the class too much.

I also tried changing how the Bramble Armor works, not sure if I did a good job. Give a feedback

I start with support and passive skills.



Seeder [Revamp of Doll Seed]
This spell now replaces doll seed. It has exactly the same costs (with the exception of WP cost, which is removed).
However, it does not summon dolls anymore. It summons Living Plants, based in the type of damage received.
Plants do not remove the effects of Lone Sadida.

  • Fire: destroys the Seed.
  • Air: Toxic Blossom
  • Earth: Aggressive Bramble
  • Water: Tree of Life
Plants cost Control just like Dolls.
Plants are static creatures, their turn will be always after Sadida's and they are not present in the initiative line.



Toxic Blossom
It is controlled by the Sadida.
Poison Powder: circle area of effect around the plant. Increases the level of already applied poison by (5) (20) (40).
Range: 1 to 3
HP: (15) (150) (300) Based in Air Mastery.
Resists: 0%


Aggressive Bramble
This bramble will drag an enemy and throw it away (similar to Gobby Bulga spell). The spell deals earth damage.

It is controlled by the Sadida.

Bramble Hug: (2) (20) (40) damage (enemy) dealt when the target is thrown. The bramble can drag and throw 1 target per turn.
Range 1 to 3
Throw Range: 1 to 3
HP: (15) (150) (300) based in Earth Mastery
Resists: 0%



Tree of Life
Tree of Life will redirect all damage received as healing to the attacker, note that enemies can use it to heal themselves!
HP: (18) (180) (360) based in Water Mastery
Resists: 0%
Regenerates 20% of it's life per turn.
Heals 2,32,60 HP when damage is received (max 3x per target) (example)




Doll [Sic'em More Revamp]
There is no need to have two spells that have the same effects and I am in the Side that Sadidas should not be 100% doll oriented. I choose this spell to replace it by the direct doll summoning spell.
This spell works the same way as Gobgob, the Sadida now have a Doll Window with all 7 dolls it can summon. All dolls will cost 3 AP at level 9. The Sadida can summon up to 3 dolls per turn.

Characteristics at level 9:
3 AP, 3 Range
Summons one of the following:

[Dolls updated]


All dolls are controlled by the Sadida.
Values are shown in this order: 1, 100, 200

The Inflatable

6 AP, 3 MP
Water Mastery: 100% of Sadida's
28% of Sadi HP
Gains 1.4 Dodge per level.

Swelling: 1 to 3 range, 3 AP, +(2) (25) (50) HP
Acceleration: 1 to 2 range, 3 AP, +(1) (2) (3) MP. 1 per turn. .
Inflation: pushes all targets in close combat 2 squares. 3 AP.



The Greedy
6 AP, 4 MP
Water Mastery: 100% of Sadida's
21% of Sadi HP

Greedication:
3 AP, 1 Range, -(2) (25) (50) HP
Liquid Theft: 6 AP, 0 Range, Steals (5) (50) (100) HP of all targets around the Doll
Bubble Gun: 2 AP, 1 to 3 Range, deals (2) (20) (40) HP



The Lethargic
6 AP, 5 MP
Air Mastery: 100% of Sadida's
13% of Sadi HP

Frayed Nerves: -1 AP(100%) at 1-99, -1 AP(100%) -1 AP(50-100%) at 100-200, 1 to 4 Range, 2 AP cost. 1 per target per turn.
Lullaby: applies Sleep State, 1 range. Cooldown of 3 turns. 6 AP.
Sleep State: misses the next turn as long as the target does not receive damage.
Yell: drags the attention of the target (changes facing direction to the Lethargic). -(1) (17) (35) HP, 2 AP. 1 to 4 range.

The Utra Powerful
6 AP, 4 MP, 3 WP.
Air Mastery: 100% of Sadida's
21% of Sadi HP

Mimic: Memorizes an air spell. The level of the memorized spell is 60% of the level of the Sadida Spell.
This change is intended as the lower air mastery of Ultra Powerful will not reduce the damage of intoxicated or poisoned wind anymore, since it has the same air damage of Sadi now.
Refunds the AP when a spell is memorized.


The Block
6 AP, 2 MP.
Earth Mastery: 100% of Sadida's
40% of Sadi HP
Gains 1.4 Lock per level.

Inhaling: pulls 1 target 2 squares, 1 to 3 range. 3 AP. -(3) (33) (64) HP.
Protector: the target is protected by The Block. 30% of the damage is transferred to The Block. 1 to 3 range, 3 AP.
Decoy: creates 2 Block images beside the Block that will block ranged spells and transfer all damage to the Real block. 4 AP.


The Maddoll
6 AP, 5 MP.
Earth Mastery: 100% of Sadida's
14% of Sadi HP.

Irritation: -1 MP(100%) at 1-99, -1 MP(100%) -1 MP(50-100%) at 100-200, 1 to 4 Range, 2 AP cost. 1 per target per turn.
Hypnosis: applies Disoriented +1, -(4) (45) (86) HP, 1 to 4 Range. 4 AP.
Curse: applies Incurable +(2) (2) (2), -(2) (17) (35) HP, 1 to 4 Range, 2 AP. 1 per turn.


The Sacrificial Doll [Chromatic]
6 AP, 2 MP.
100% of Sadi mastery (all).
14% of Sadi HP.

The Doll loses 2 Mp when summoned, it can walk only in the following turn.
Sacrifice: -(5) (55) (107) HP, 5 AP, 1 to 1 Range. Kills the Doll.
Mass Sacrifice: -(3) (33) (64) HP, 5 AP, 0 range, square area of effect. Kills the Doll.
Explosiveness (passive): gains 50% damage if the Doll doesn't die in this turn, stacks up to 200%.


Knowledge of Dolls
+0 to 2 Control
+0 to 20% Critical hits to Dolls
+0 to 200% Max HP to Voodoll





Ebony Skin [Doll Link revamp]
This passive increases the fire resistance of the Sadida and improves the effectiveness of Brambly Armor.

Effects:
  • Increases the Fire Resistance by 0(40)%
  • Returns 1 AP to the Sadida if Brambly Armor is applied to an ally 0(50%)
  • Bramble Armor spells now adds Regrowth with a level of 0(40)% of Brambly Armor's level.
  • Regrowth: the Brambly Armor regrows in the beginning of the next turn.


For Example, if a level 100 Brambly Armor is applied to an ally, the ally also receives 40 levels of Regrowth. When the turn of the Sadida arrives, this ally gains 40 levels of Brambly Armor.



Summon Sacrifice:
3 AP at max level.
5 Range (no line of sight) at max level.
Cannot be increased.

  • Doll: kills the Doll, heals 0(25) HP Chromatic, returns 2 AP.
  • Summon: steals 0(20)% of it's HP.
  • Plants: becomes a Seed and returns all AP.








Poison Master
This passive now adds a Poison Enchanter state to the Sadida.
  • When an air spell is cast on any doll (except Ultra Powerful): +0(2) Level of Poison Enchanter per AP/MP.
  • When a doll dies they release a poisonous fog around them adding 0(40) levels of Intoxicated.
  • Poison Enchanter: +0.5% Air Damage (Sadida) per level. Max level of 100. Disappears if not stacked.




Vaporize
This spell is neither good or bad, I call it useful because of it's cost, but not essential as we do have other spells to be leveled. It grants control of up to two dolls for 0 AP cost, meaning that it has a condition when it comes to dolls controlled per turn.



Sadida's Tear
This is my main spell and I call it really good, the healing bonus when an ally is linked to Voodoll is nice, but when it is linked to an enemy it's current animation a little laggy, that's what should be changed: no more a secondary animation for enemies linked to voodoll, they could have a faster animation though, but not the spell's main animation which is too slow. I added an effect linked to dolls too, to make it useful for doll builds.

[New] Doll: + 5 to + 20 Critical Hits to all dolls in a circular radius around the target.


Rust
Rust should work like Osamoda's whip, however, the amount of damage boosted should be based in the quantity of enemies hit. The spell now buffs all dolls in map with damage bonus and healing bonus.

[New]: Rust State damage bonus changed to all elements, healing bonus also added.



Intoxicated: the state changes, since the revamp happened before we had level 200 spells. It now has 200 levels and deals 50 air damage at level 200. The amount of Intoxicated added by spells is not changed.



Sudden Chill
The state applied by sudden chill should disappear in the end of every turn in every situation, it cannot be stacked endlessly like now. However, the amount of resistance taken should be increased by 50%.

[New]: Resistance loss at 100 increases to 30, at 200 to 50.


Poisoned Wind [Revamped]
2 AP. Adds 0 (18) (36) levels of Thetatoxin.
1 to 3 Range, fixed.
Damage: 2 (15) (30)
2 per target per turn.


Earthquake
This idea was given by Kikuihimonji. She is probably going to use it during her next suggestion, I loved it so I am sharing it there already!

MP: 1
Cast per turn: 5
Damage: 3 (29) (58)
Effect: spawns an earthquake beneath a random target in map (allies and enemies).



Photosynthesis (Lone Sadi revamp)
Increases the damage and heals of the Sadida per plant present in map and also increases the damage of plant type spells.
  • +0(30)% Damage per plant (max 80%).
  • +0(30)% Heals per plant (max 80%).
  • +0(40)% Earth Damage



This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - January 12, 2014, 21:55:10.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 17, 2013, 00:08:59 | #2
1. The Earthquake idea is interesing. I like its concept, but i am not saying that i would love that change. Just that the idea to make spell wich such range is nice.

2. None of Sadida elemental spells should have WP in cost - thats like a rule of thumb. I hate using elemental spells with WP in cost - wich is also why i like Sadida so much as Sadida doesn't have such thing.

3. Concept to make poison that apply additional dmg from each hit received is nice, however i think it should apply for every attacker, not just Sadida. It should include doll's dmg too. However it could be not guaranteed poison to not apply it easily every turn. Or could have range 3~5 in line. However i see that Ankama want every air spell to be possibly redirected via doll's. Somehow i can't see dolls using darts to attack enemy... Air spells are just winds of poisons that Sadida make and blow toward enemy -the doll can inhale, hold it, walk to enemy and release it on it. The dart wouldn't fit here. Also Pandawas are already using "darts" when they cast Ether.

4. I don't mind having each spell making different summon (as long as the single target spells would refund the AP/MP to Sadida to make each summon with equal cost to create). I don't mind having more type of summons too. However i don't find it necessary for Sadida to have more of them, when we are already not using half of them. Ideas are cool though. Making flowers would fit Sadida gamplay. I know other game with "plant summoner" that create flowers that apply some effects around them. Its great concept itself. We could modify the current dolls though to make some "auras" and that would be like "walking flowers" that you suggest, wich could be easier for Ankama to implement.

5. I Dont think i want to shield allies and remove their MP's in process...

6. i wouldn't like to shield enemy too, especially if i just want to make him not reach me. It would be pointless to make him not able to attack me if i also wouldn't be able to attack him.

7. I like the concept of a spell that affect all dolls on the field - be it resistance as you suggest or dmg% (as i think rust should work that way).

8. I like the idea of Sudden Chill to make it stronger but not last till max. Make it reset every turn even if we don't reach its cap, but make it possible to reduce resistance more, faster. I'd like that. So +1 to your Sudden Chill idea.

9. I am not sure if i understood how you want k'mir to work. If enemy cast spell it move to us? Wasn' it unable to move away in the first place? I think the spell should pull someone towards caster if its going to have range 1~2 (or higher). This was something i was suggesting before. I was also suggesting to make K'mir last longer (in enemy turn too). I am happy to see you'd want that as well.

10. Could you give mroe details about your ultrapowerful? It seems you made toxic doll instead and make ultrapowerful able to also cast air spells still? Sounds... weird to me. 2 different dolls able to do the same....? And maybe i am stubborn but i still think that as long as earth branch got nice aoe spells, it should not have dmg dealing earth dolls. The dolls are to compensate for the lack of big aoe's in water and air branches. The dolls could focus on 1 target though, unlike the aoe spells, but its the matter of choice. The aoe is more reliable when you cast it, while dolls may not reach enemy, block one anothers way, die.

Overall interesting ideas that Ankama could use somewhere. I belive that if we could chat somewhere in real time we could make some brain storming and get better ideas, faster. So far so good, but i see little steps and small good ideas mixed with other ideas. Reminds me of my first suggestions that i was ever doing. Ah good ol' naive days...


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté December 17, 2013, 00:37:47 | #3
@Kikui

1 and 2. I am planning in removing the WP cost of dolls, that's why I had a freedom of adding WP cost to it, I think that removing the WP cost should make it lose a lot of it's area of effect, maybe a circular chess size area of effect of size 5 or 6 around the Sadida. Plus it'd so funny an animation based in the quantity of movements used, imagine the sadida stepping five times on the ground after using 5 MP to shake it, would be so fun! XD It also brings some strategy, I mean, it can still hurt allies, but it becomes more controllable than the current version we have.

3. Yup, It would be nice but think about Rogues and Iops with their 1 AP spells, it'd then become a little overpowered I think, unless if the poison gets a limit of activation per turn.

4. I disagree with you on this, I love the concept of plants, they'd act similarly as the static Xelor mechanisms, but they'd last until they're killed plus they bring some sort of map control that when joined with dolls in map might become very effective.

5 and 6. I agree, I need to change this spell a little. It was inspired in Soothing Bramble (from Dofus). Soothing Bramble heals enemies by a low amount of HP, but subtracts 2 MP for 2 turns from them. On allies it does the same thing, but greatly heals them. I'd like to adapt it with the shields, maybe a lower shielding effect on enemies and a big shielding effects on allies with a high percentage of 2 MP removal. What do you think? I'll update it.

7. Dolls lack resistance, so I think that Tear could add it, would be nice, the same for Rust. It should buff all dolls in map when damage is done and the amount of damage buffed should depend in the quantity of enemies hurt.

8. I actually think that it is the best solution since it is so buggy right now, stacking poison effects are difficult to balance.

9. I'm sorry, what I meant is that, whenever the Sadida casts K'mir on a target, the target walks close to the sadida, it's some sort of attraction, and for now and then (during the current turn) whenever the Sadida moves the target moves too.

10. Ultra Powerful doesn't change, The Toxic will increase the level of the current applied poisons. If the target is Intoxicated, Pain Toxin, Torpor and Sudden Chill, all three poison effects will be enhanced several levels by this doll, so let's say, it's a good combo with Ultra Powerful.
The Maddoll has a spell similar to the current Feca, Belligerence, which forces the enemy to attack it. The thing is, maddol will have around 5 MP, making it difficult for some specific targets to kill it instantly in one turn, in other words, they lose a turn in an attempt of attacking the doll. It has it's weakness though, really low hp and vulnerable to ranged damage. But against close combat fighters it is really troublesome!
Lethargic on the other hand takes AP every turn and will add a Jigglypuff effect, that in the second or third turn puts the enemy under sleep state if the doll hasn't been killed until then.

Whenever I have the time (possibly after december 25th) I'll be posting more information about dolls, plants and the passives. I intend to add a poison related passive (like changing explodoll and adding to it a poison explosion effect). Dolly Sacrifice also will be able to directly trigger the creation of Sacrificial Dolls, and other things

And yeah, of course! I think I have you in my friendlist already.

Ahh just one more thing, about the blowpipes, I don't think it's a big problem since the dolls only stores the spell effects and don't actually recast them. For Ultra Powerful I think it also wouldn't be a big deal. I'd love to see Sadidas with that Pandawa's blowpipe animation in an attacking motion.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - December 17, 2013, 00:41:56.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 17, 2013, 10:45:56 | #4
I didn't liked soothing bramble concept in dofus. I wouldn't like such spell here either.

Toxic will be useless once we max poison ourselves. It will be often pointless to have more then 1 doll summoned too. Ultrapowerful can increase poison stacks itself while also attacking. Thats like suggesting a doll that attack enemy and steal AP in same time while not removing lethargic... Disliked the idea. Also because there should be a way for enemis to get rid of poison (if they outrange the ultrapwoerful dolls and sadida for example).

I know dolls lack resistance but i don't think i'd like to spam 1 spell every turn just to keep them with decent resist. I don't mind some resistance bonus in turn though but besides that they still need normal resistance. Wich is why i was suggesting all the time to make dolls with resistance the same as Sadida have itself. This togather with Tree's resistance bonus to Sadida would make dolls gain resist. If dolls would not cost WP then we would be free to cast Tree 6 times per fight for that.

I don't like WP in elemental spells. Removing WP from cost of the seed does not mean you can add WP cost somewhere else. I wouldn't like to cast your Earthquake ever if that would make me loose 1 voodoll or 1 tree cast. Its already lame that i cannot effectively use earthquake and tree in the same turn due to MP costs included in both, but if i won't cast earthquake in turn then i could cast Tree instead. Now the WP cost in Tree for me is the bonus of resistance, while heal is based on MP. For earthquake dmg is based on MP, so what would be based on WP then? Adding WP cost would need to make earthquake stronger but now that you made it controlable and with area of effect covering half of the map cells it would make this spell overpowered. Sadida in 1 vs 1 pvp will own enemies with earthquake itself, unless it will be weak to dmg, but then it would be not worth the WP cost in it. What i am trying to say is that the WP cost in this type of aoe does not fit for the decent dmg it could deal. Its either overpowered or too weak when you are able to control it and with that huge aoe. You'd better make it weak but controlable or random with risk to hurt self but strong. Personally i like the second option as i think earthquake should be strong and i don't see a problem with its randomness (as long as i won't hit just empty cells).

About K'mir - thats how it used to work (without that attracting and range bonus). It was abusive vs Cra and monsters that had no 1 cell range attacks. My suggestion in other topic was to make it last until the end of Sadida's following (instead of the end of current turn) so that our enemy is still stabilized in our next turn after casting K'mir so that we would be unable to link them with K'mir at that time. I was also suggesting range bonus to this spell too, to make it easier to cast it on dolls or to drag allies from enemy's lock zone without the need to step right next to them and waste 2 mp's doing so (1mp for moving forth and 1 mp for moving back). So i am giving +1 to the range bonus and pull (attract) effect on it and +1 to make it last longer but -1 if it last untill the end of enemy turn.

How will your madoll idea work with multiple madoll dolls?
As Sadida's enemy (Sadida vs Sadida) i wouldn't want this change. It would be too good to be added. Enemy already lost MP and now you want it to waste mroe mp's chasing the doll while Sadida attack it freely? Idea might be good for a wild monster (pve) but not for a summon (pvp).

I think that giving sadida reliable way to put enemy to sleep would lead it to make blocker dolls and that lethargic and just heal up self while enemy sleeps, wich vs xelor might be the needed solution to the whole AP theft but vs anything else would be abusive.

The issue with dolly sacrifice making sacrificial doll - what if we want to sacrifice the seed? It rarely happen (usually when we place seed somewhere for enemy to make fire doll from it or with leftover ap's to have something that will block LoS) but well - happends. I'd like to get AP refund used to make seed when sacrificing it. The sacrificial doll also trigger explodoll and i dont think it should be cheap to trigger (wich is why dolls need higher HP and resistance too). Thats why (despite my old suggestion to do so) i think its bad idea afterall. Yes i've changed my point of view about this, and i'd rather keep the dficulty to make dolls with weapons/pushback dmg but make them stronger.

You know, some ideas are great but would mess up too much. We have to sacrifice one idea to make other ideas implemented. Something that is hard to do alone. Its like choice to eat only few certain cookies and leave others for someone else. You have to pain to choose wich one you will eat and wich ones you will leave.

About blowpipes - if you put it that way, i don't mind that. I don't like the icon of Woodland Stench anyway (too many classes have the same icon re-colored, it makes me sick). However the concept of Woodland Stench is related to Armand's bad breath (anime), and i like that concept, though it is awkawd that they made this spell with such long range...

I also don;t understand why they removed the animation of Sadida using Potion to turn to tree - it was awsome animation that made me use the Tree for the sake to see Sadida drink it. The animation for some spells need to be faster but the spell that end our turn anyway doesn't need to have short animation. I want that back... but its propably not the place to ask for it...


Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2008-06-21
posté December 20, 2013, 12:01:35 | #5
FYI, this is just my own input on how Sadida could be tweaked, and what I would like to see.

I like tetrapoison, but I guess that's just me. If it were to be buffed, I'd say to increase the max lvl of tetrapoison or increase the base damage of the spell. I generally either use sudden chill + 2x poisoned wind against people with higher air resistance or 2x poisoned wind + k'mir, then move 6 spaces. Then again, I'm not super high level yet, so maybe things change at that point.

I don't like how much the emphasis the specialty spells put on the dolls. Lone Sadida + tree really isn't enough to actually justify a doll-less build. I also feel like there should be a specialty spell that synergises with poisons, one that synergises with armors, and one that synergises with healing.

Also, I feel like the doll for each element tree is fairly weird in terms of synergy. Water tree synergises really well with block since tear requires no LoS, and they can heal; greedies die immediately to aoe etc.. Air dolls that recast your spells don't help much since you can max the poison fairly easily when you get more ap, higher spell level and crit chance.

Another thing I would like to add is that, I think earth sadida should be able to apply armor to themselves (I don't know if this is possible yet, cuz I don't really check the earth tree) and the same with water spells being able to heal themselves.

As for your ideas:
I don't like soothing bramble from Dofus, I actually feel like if you added a bramble that removed mp, it should work similar to lashing arrow, but more forgiving. An idea would be to give it a chance to remove mp on a normal cast, but on a crit, it would remove significantly more, like 3 or 4 mp.

Woodland stench is the highest damage vs highest range compromise to apply intoxicate, therefore I feel like it shouldn't go. Gust has higher utility, but in terms of raw damage woodland stench is the best. Therefore I feel like opinion of which spell is changed to a blow dart spell will vary.

I'm on the fence about the damage on hit poison. This is mainly because, the spell itself can only be used twice, most of the other Sadida spells cost 3 or more ap, making it hard to really use unless it lasts longer than the turn it was cast or you go for a really high ap build.

The -lock is a weird type of debuff as well, since I feel like you don't really ever need to dodge that often... but then again... I have really high mp in my build and kite fairly easily. I would just prefer it stayed as tetrapoison, but as I have said earlier, I just really like damaging poisons.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté December 20, 2013, 23:01:42 | #6
I agree in a lot of points with you Cuddle, in fact it's difficult to find Sadis around that have the same opinion as yours. I think that Sadidas are not fully oriented to be played with dolls, the same way osas should not be fully based in summons. Dolls should not be excluded from the game though, in fact they need some buff but the non doll oriented builds also do not need to be excluded.
I'll update my ideas now to the full version, I've changed some of the spells in order to avoid changing the class too much.

I also tried changing how the Bramble Armor works, not sure if I did a good job. Give a feedback
[Main Topic Edited]
I start with support and passive skills.



Seeder [Revamp of Doll Seed]
This spell now replaces doll seed. It has exactly the same costs (with the exception of WP cost, which is removed).
However, it does not summon dolls anymore. It summons Living Plants, based in the type of damage received.
Plants do not remove the effects of Lone Sadida.

  • Fire: Parasite Grass
  • Air: Toxic Blossom
  • Earth: Aggressive Bramble
  • Water: Tree of Life

Plants cost Control just like Dolls.

Parasite Grass
This plant will absorb the damage of the target and become stronger. Like all plants, it doesn't move, but it can attack from 4 range and absorb damage every turn, the state can be stacked, which means if the enemy doesn't pay attention it can have up to 200% of all his masteries absorbed in a few turns.
1 to 4 Range, deals 2,22,44 fire damage, 1 per target per turn. Adds Parasitic Seed +1, +10, +20. Parasitic Seed has 200 levels and drains 1% damage per level. It can be stacked.
HP: 25% of Sadida's

Toxic Blossom
This plant adds Tetatoxin, Intoxicated and Sudden Chill to all targets in a ring area of effect. The area of effect covers all possible target-able squares of a 2 to 3 range spell.
Level Added: +5, +10, +20
HP: 25% of Sadida's


Aggressive Bramble
Brambly Aura will add 3 levels of Bramble Formation to all targets that are close to the Aggressive Bramble (circle).
It deals 3,33,62 damage to a single target per turn, 1-3 range.
HP: 25% of Sadida's

Tree of Life
Tree of Life heals everyone that attacks it, not that enemies can use it to heal themselves!
40% of Sadida's HP.
Regenerates 20% of it's life per turn.
Heals 2,32,60 HP when damage is received (max 3x per target).


Doll [Sic'em More Revamp]
There is no need to have two spells that have the same effects and I am in the Side that Sadidas should not be 100% doll oriented. I choose this spell to replace it by the direct doll summoning spell.
This spell works the same way as Gobgob, the Sadida now have a Doll Window with all 7 dolls it can summon. All dolls will cost 3 AP at level 9. The Sadida can summon up to 3 dolls per turn.

Characteristics at level 9:
3 AP, 3 Range
Summons one of the following:
  • The Block: +2 Lock per level
  • The Maddoll: -1 MP (100%) at 1-99, -1 MP (50 to 100%) between 100 and 200.
  • The Lethargic: -1 AP (100%) at 1-99, -1 AP (50 to 100%) between 100 and 200.
  • The Inflatable: can heal up to two targets, same amount of healing.
  • The Greedy: can attack twice, same damage.
  • The Sacrificial Doll: chromatic damage of 3, 40, 78, square area of effect.
  • The Ultra Powerful: not changed.

The health points, resistance, ap and mp of all dolls is not changed.



Vine Grasp [Doll Link revamp]
This passive will add levels of Bramble Formation to all targets that are close to the Sadida in the beginning of his turn, it also increases the level applied by Earth Spells.

Effects:
  • All targets close to the Sadida (radius 4 circle) gain 0(5) levels of Bramble Formation in the beginning of the turn.
  • Bramble, Wild Grass and Manifold Bramble now add 0(3) more levels of Bramble Formation.
  • Targets under Bramble Formation take 0(10)% more damage from Earth Spells.


Dolly Sacrifice: Chromatic heal of 25 at level 9.

Poison Master
This passive now increases all poison applied by the water branch by 20% at level 20. For example, Sudden Chill adds 30 levels of resistance loss at 100, with this mastery it adds 36 levels.
Dolls now explode adding Intoxicated +0 +40 to all targets around them when they die.




Vaporize
This spell is neither good or bad, I call it useful because of it's cost, but not essential as we do have other spells to be leveled. It grants control of up to two dolls for 0 AP cost, meaning that it has a condition when it comes to dolls controlled per turn.



Sadida's Tear
This is my main spell and I call it really good, the healing bonus when an ally is linked to Voodoll is nice, but when it is linked to an enemy it's current animation a little laggy, that's what should be changed: no more a secondary animation for enemies linked to voodoll, they could have a faster animation though, but not the spell's main animation which is too slow. I added an effect linked to dolls too, to make it useful for doll builds.

[New] Doll: + 5 to + 20 Critical Hits to all dolls in a circular radius around the target.


Rust
Rust should work like Osamoda's whip, however, the amount of damage boosted should be based in the quantity of enemies hit. The spell now buffs all dolls in map with damage bonus and healing bonus.

[New]: Rust State damage bonus changed to all elements, healing bonus also added.



Intoxicated: the state changes, since the revamp happened before we had level 200 spells. It now has 200 levels and deals 70 air damage at level 100. The amount of Intoxicated added by spells is not changed.



Sudden Chill
The state applied by sudden chill should disappear in the end of every turn in every situation, it cannot be stacked endlessly like now. However, the amount of resistance taken should be increased by 50%.

[New]: Resistance loss at 100 increases to 30, at 200 to 50.


Poisoned Wind [Revamped]
Sadis need a WP spell (considering the fact I took the WP cost from dolls). I choose PW for that.

Range: 0
Area of Effect: circle around the Sadida
Animation: the Sadida farts leaving a smoke poison around the area (like Hurl).
Tetatoxin: not changed.
Cost of the Spell: 6 AP, 1 WP
Damage: (1) (100) (200): (3) (25) (42)
Effect: Tetatoxin +(1) (80) (160)
Effect 2: pushes all targets 2 squares away from the Sadida.

The spell may need balancing, I'm still checking numbers.



Bramble Formation [Revamped]
The Armor to Be effect is changed to Bramble Formation, this state does nothing, the Sadida must trigger it with Fertilizer in order to add the armor effect or to hinder an enemy.

Important notes:

  • All earth spells add 1 level per AP/MP used of Bramble Formation (except quake and fertilizer).
  • Criticals add 2 levels per AP/MP used of Bramble Formation.
  • The State does not disappear in the end of the turn, it can be stacked infinitely until you want to trigger it.
  • The effects are triggered by Fertilizer. See the spell Fertilizer for more information.
  • The State is applied to Allies and Enemies.
  • The amount of level added can be enhanced by Vine Grasp.
  • The state has 100 levels.





Bramble
The MP loss is replaced by MP Steal.
The spell adds 4 levels of Bramble Formation to an ally or enemy.
Damage not changed.


Fertilizer [Revamped]
In order to fit with the changed to Brambly Armor the spell Fertilizer is revamped. It now has a low cost and triggers the effects of the Bramble Formation.

Cost: 2 AP
Range: 1 to 4
Damage: (1) (100) (200): (2) (22) (42)
Ally: costs 0 AP.
Triggers Bramble Formation:
  • Brambly Armor: +4 HP shield per level of Bramble Formation (ally).
  • Brambly Embrace: -1 MP (200%) every 33 levels. -0.20 HP per level per spell cast.

If an enemy has level 100 Bramble Formation and the Sadida uses Fertilizer on it, the enemy loses 3 MP and still loses 20 HP per spell cast during it's turn, all based in the earth mastery. Now if it's an ally, it can get up to 400 HP shield at 100, which is extremely high. The new state brings to the game a better thinking strategy for shielding allies, either you stack it, making it more powerful, or you consume it for minor damage reduction.
It may look for you that I have nerfed the brambly armor, however I have not. If you want to apply it every turn to an ally, let's say you cast Wild Grass twice and bramble during your turn, that's +12 levels of Bramble Formation, meaning that you can add to it 48 armor, if you have the Vine Grape passive levelled, you can add up to 26 levels of Brambly Armor in a turn to a target, or in other worlds 104 HP shield. The values are constant at all levels, that is something that may need balancing, however the main idea I guess It's clear for you guys. I wanted to do that to be able to add that Vine Grasp passive that would replace Doll Link.


Wild Grass
It's not changed, now it adds 4 levels of Bramble Formation to the target.


Manifold Bramble
It's not changed, but now it adds 4 levels of Bramble Formation to everyone in the area of effect.



Earthquake
It now spawns a small earthquake under every target that has Bramble Formation around the Sadida (circle radius 4). The size of the Earthquake is a cross of size 1.
Both allies and enemies with Bramble Formation are hurt..

The area of effect of the Earthquake.



Cost: 1 MP
Number of Casts per turn: 3
Damage: (1) (100) (200): 3 (14) (22)
Condition: at least 1 target with Bramble Formation in the area of effect.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - December 21, 2013, 11:27:16.
Short Strich * Member Since 2010-12-17
posté December 21, 2013, 08:03:26 | #7
Adding trees, grass, etc to the seed spell would be amazing and more creative than anything grou could think of.

Would really like to see them add trees and more nature to sadidas..


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 21, 2013, 11:20:25 | #8
I have few ideas for your suggestion:

Explodoll - make it apply poison to enemies, make it heal based on water mastery to alies.
Tree - make it shield Sadida with x amount of Brambly Armor, make it heal sadida based on water mastery instead of chromatic and make enemies that hit sadida get poisoned.
Green Guard - at start of turn make each doll gain brambly armor of x amount.

These are just suggestions if you really want to go for changing the way current spells work. I am not saying that sadida need those changes. I am just giving out ideas but i don't think i would like them.

p.s. your brambly formation seems like making things even more complicated where we need effects fast. I'd say each thing sadida already do cost to much to the effect received. Adding more cost to the shielding is bad and making earthqyake not appear if no other earth spell was used before is also bad. I would still like to hit far away enemies that Cra can't normally hit with its range thanks to earthquake. Your change would make it impossible as i would need to attack them with earth spells first. Unless i misread something.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté December 21, 2013, 11:30:55 | #9
@Kikui

It is possible to add the same amount of armor a level 120 Sadi would add currently with critical hits, this suggestion in no way makes it slow. It's up to you really, you can have the same amount as we have now (a little higher to tell the truth) or choose to boost it.

I did that to explodoll to make it an air oriented spell branch, I think each branch needs a support specialty.

Tree is fine, it may not be good for doll builds, but it's the only option lone builds have right now since all other spells are doll related.

For Earthquake, I don't see it as a long ranged spell, it's just as random as a roulette right now, I'd not rely on it to hit Cras.

- Pangea


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 21, 2013, 11:45:05 | #10
I am not saying i want to hit cra's with it (though that too) but for example those schnecks far away behind 2 corners in their "maze" in zinit 2 or monsters that runned away after i used voodoll and blocked their way to me (so they need to kill voodoll first but ai makes them run away) - i want to be able to hit them at distance and well current earthquake still allow me to do that, your idea would make it impossible.

I my opinion there should not exist such thing as "lone builds" or "summoner builds". Sadida, just like Cra or rogue, should be allowed to use or not use dolls at will. Using dolls should be worth it though and should be always better then playing without them. But playing without them might be also an option that should not receive any penalty for that. I don't like loosing dmg when i summon dolls. I might want to play without dolls but suddently there will be high need for blocker to be placed in right cell and i should be allowed to do so with no dmg loss. Sadida should be free to summon many dolls and sacrifice them all at will and it should not affect its dmg from passive.

Following this i would like passive that give us dmg/heal % (or resist) based on the amount of Control we have. It would be static dmg/heal (or resist) bonus that will apply at start of every fight just like Initiator of Rogue. It could be based on Sadida's max MP at start of turn instead and named Sadida's Shoe - i would like that too. The current lone Sadida's "increase per turn" is nice concept though but its not that nice if i can't use dolls to stall for few turns and actually make me reach its full effect before enemy almost kill me.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté December 23, 2013, 17:12:38 | #11
[Dolls updated]


All dolls are controlled by the Sadida.
Values are shown in this order: 1, 100, 200

The Inflatable

6 AP, 3 MP
Water Mastery: 100% of Sadida's
28% of Sadi HP
Gains 1.4 Dodge per level.

Swelling: 1 to 3 range, 3 AP, +(2) (28) (54) HP
Acceleration: 1 to 2 range, 3 AP, +(1) (2) (3) MP
Motivation: 0 range, gives (1) (1) (1) AP to all allies in map. 1 per turn, 3 AP cost. 3 turns cooldown.
Inflation: pushes all targets in close combat 1 square. 3 AP.



The Greedy
6 AP, 4 MP
Water Mastery: 100% of Sadida's
21% of Sadi HP

Greedication:
3 AP, 1 Range, -(2) (28) (54) HP
Liquid Theft: 6 AP, 0 Range, Steals (4) (60) (115) HP of all targets around the Doll
Bubble Gun: 2 AP, 1 to 3 Range, deals (2) (22) (42) HP



The Lethargic
6 AP, 5 MP
Air Mastery: 100% of Sadida's
13% of Sadi HP

Frayed Nerves: -1 AP(100%) at 1-99, -1 AP(100%) -1 AP(50-100%) at 100-200, 1 to 4 Range, 2 AP cost. 1 per target per turn.
Lullaby: applies Sleep State, 1 range. Cooldown of 3 turns. 6 AP.
Sleep State: misses the next turn as long as the target does not receive damage.
Yell: drags the attention of the target (changes facing direction to the Lethargic). -(1) (20) (38) HP, 2 AP. 1 to 4 range.

The Utra Powerful
6 AP, 4 MP, 3 WP.
Air Mastery: 100% of Sadida's
21% of Sadi HP

Mimic: Memorizes an air spell. The level of the memorized spell is 60% of the level of the Sadida Spell.
This change is intended as the lower air mastery of Ultra Powerful will not reduce the damage of intoxicated or poisoned wind anymore, since it has the same air damage of Sadi now.
Ultra Force: carries a target, 1 range. 1 per turn, 1 AP.
Ultra Throw: throws a target, 1 to 2 range. 1 per turn. 2 AP, -(2) (25) (46) HP. Allies do not receive damage.


The Block
6 AP, 2 MP.
Earth Mastery: 100% of Sadida's
40% of Sadi HP
Gains 1.4 Lock per level.

Inhaling: pulls 1 target 2 squares, 1 to 3 range. 3 AP. -(3) (33) (64) HP.
Protector: the target is protected by The Block. 30% of the damage is transferred to The Block. 1 to 3 range, 3 AP.
Decoy: creates 2 Block images beside the Block that will block ranged spells and transfer all damage to the Real block. 4 AP.


The Maddoll
6 AP, 5 MP.
Earth Mastery: 100% of Sadida's
14% of Sadi HP.

Irritation: -1 MP(100%) at 1-99, -1 MP(100%) -1 MP(50-100%) at 100-200, 1 to 4 Range, 2 AP cost. 1 per target per turn.
Hypnosis: applies Disoriented +1, -(4) (45) (86) HP, 1 to 4 Range. 4 AP.
Curse: applies Incurable +(2) (2) (2), -(2) (20) (38) HP, 1 to 4 Range, 2 AP. 1 per turn.


The Sacrificial Doll
6 AP, 2 MP.
100% of Sadi mastery (all).
14% of Sadi HP.

Sacrifice: -(5) (55) (107) HP, 5 AP, 1 to 1 Range. Kills the Doll.
Mass Sacrifice: -(3) (33) (64) HP, 5 AP, 0 range, square area of effect. Kills the Doll.
Explosiveness (passive): gains 50% damage if the Doll doesn't die in this turn, stacks up to 200%.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 23, 2013, 20:01:13 | #12
I think it would be awsome for the Greedy to counter its lack of range with dash spell (something like Super iop punch). The animation of the greedy attacking could be the same but the sprite would move from starting cell to the close combat enemy in line.

The idea of spell would look as follows:

(?) AP, 0 MP, 1 - 3 range, cast in line, need LoS
Effects: get closer to target, -x HP (water) if target is enemy.

It might give this doll possiblity to jump from one enemy to another enemy in line, wich could be fun to watch and handy if controled. Then again without control it could mess up the targeting of this doll and make it jump to other enemy when you'd expect it to stay in place. But AI as it is is not making anything better and the Greedy still want to change target, though that it cannot as it get locked easily...

That;s it. I just wanted to share this idea of the spell. I am not saying its what the greedy need, just that its fun idea.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté December 23, 2013, 20:23:49 | #13
That's a nice idea Kikui, would be certainly quite useful.

Now, about the AI, I think the best thing to do is give permanent control of all dolls to the Sadida. It's so difficult to get a decent AI for dolls, and if we give them more spells, it'll be even more difficult to create a good AI.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - December 23, 2013, 20:25:42.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 23, 2013, 21:22:03 | #14
That idea for greedy was based on the Greedy doll description:

"The Greedy is an aggresive Doll wich will launch itself at any enemy within its range."


By the way i just got shot by another idea while watching some Wakfu anime.

The Amalia there sometimes fight by moving (grabing) enemies with bramble whip and throwing them. So how about implementing that to the game too?

Make Bramble Spell apply state "Bramble Grip" and make the next cast of Bramble on empty cell teleport the target with "Bramble Grip" there. Obviously it could be used on allies too. But then i don't think it should apply brambly armor... Maybe leave brambly armor to fertilizer spell?

I'd like to hear your opinion about this concept and also i would love to see such ability to re-position doll for obviously cheap cost to save time and AP sacrificing and resummoning the same doll in different cell, but thats another thing.

EDIT:

Ok advanced idea. Make Bramble spell a 2-cast spell (something new to wakfu!).

Casting it once on enemy would make it deal dmg and apply Brambly Grip state.
Casting it on ally once will apply Brambly Grip state.
Casting it on empty cell after there was 1 target with Brambly Grip would teleport that target there. In case of enemy it will deal dmg of Bramble and in case of ally it would give back AP to Sadida.
If Sadida won't cast Bramble on empty cell then the Brambly Grip would dissapear and give Bramble Armor to allies while enemies would get either -MP or incurable (or maybe other effect).

Max 1 Brambly Grip at time.

So how do you like that?


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - December 25, 2013, 00:36:30.
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté December 24, 2013, 18:35:14 | #15
That's an interesting idea Kikui, but I am afraid that it has already been implemented to the game with Xelors, they already can do that with Time Rifts. Certain abilities should be kept to a single class :/

I am working in a replacement for the Bramble Shield idea.

I also have edited one thing:



Knowledge of Dolls
+0 to 2 Control
+0 to 20% Critical hits to Dolls
+0 to 200% Max HP to Voodoll


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 25, 2013, 00:43:14 | #16
Yes its true xelor had that. What i meant was that its new to sadida in wakfu as it haven't happened before. Then again i'd like this spell to apply permanent state (untill activated or until sadida move for example - choose one or the other). If certain abilities should be kept to a single class then Sadida would never get brambly shield as coagulation already do that, though not to allies but self and work a bit different.

What i wanted to suggest is similar to Time Rifts spell that doesn't make you jump on dial like xelor and does not get limited by some dial hour cells either. It would have also different cost and would apply dmg on both casts of the spell. I just think it would be great ability. Maybe it could be made with some cheap in cost spell or make bramble with cheap cost, no los maybe and high range but very low dmg given - i mean it would be nice if Sadida could change position of allies and enemies by for example swaping their positioning between each other in similar way sacrier do that but without making Sadida move from place while doing that. So far our crowd control is limieted to positioning dolls, using gust spell and k'mir. I wish we could do some more, be better support, less predictable. Then again i think it could be too good, but on the other hand, Xelor can do something similar and its considered as "fine".


Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2011-07-05
posté December 25, 2013, 07:56:11 | #17

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 25 December 2013 00:43) *
Yes its true xelor had that. What i meant was that its new to sadida in wakfu as it haven't happened before. Then again i'd like this spell to apply permanent state (untill activated or until sadida move for example - choose one or the other). If certain abilities should be kept to a single class then Sadida would never get brambly shield as coagulation already do that, though not to allies but self and work a bit different.

What i wanted to suggest is similar to Time Rifts spell that doesn't make you jump on dial like xelor and does not get limited by some dial hour cells either. It would have also different cost and would apply dmg on both casts of the spell. I just think it would be great ability. Maybe it could be made with some cheap in cost spell or make bramble with cheap cost, no los maybe and high range but very low dmg given - i mean it would be nice if Sadida could change position of allies and enemies by for example swaping their positioning between each other in similar way sacrier do that but without making Sadida move from place while doing that. So far our crowd control is limieted to positioning dolls, using gust spell and k'mir. I wish we could do some more, be better support, less predictable. Then again i think it could be too good, but on the other hand, Xelor can do something similar and its considered as "fine".
I don't think we will see a spell with all those capabilities available to any playable classes throughout the rest of the life of wakfu.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 25, 2013, 14:25:47 | #18
So i was working on more details and eventual limitations and i figured out something more similar to pandawa's throwing abilities though it will cost Sadida 2 AP more but it wont make Sadida in need to move from place (in fact it won't be able to move if it will want to use bramble to throw someone).



Cost: 4AP
Range: 2 -5
Area: -
Line of Sight: Yes
Boostable Range: Yes
Conditions: -
Damage (level 1 - 100 - 200): 4 - 47 - 90 (does not hurt allies)

All level effects: On ally or enemy: Apply Bramble Grip. On empty cell within 3 cells of target with Brambly Grip: Teleport target with Bramble Grip to targeted cell. Refund 4AP to Sadida. On ally: withdraw negative effects from target. On seed: Summon Blocker. Refund 4AP to Sadida.
Effects level 1: On ally or self: Apply Brambly armor +2 Level
Effects level 100: On ally or self: Apply Brambly armor +31 Level
Effects Level 200: On ally or self: Apply Brambly armor +60 Level

Brambly Grip: The bramble prepares itself to throw target. Permanent duration. Dissapear if Sadida change position (if Sadida move, or get pushed, dragged, swaped , etc). Dissapear if Sadida cast Bramble on different target or on empty cell.

Brambly Armor: Creates a shield made of brambles with HP equal to the Brambly Armor level. Permanent duration (reduce level of Brambly Armor when damaged). Max level 200.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - December 25, 2013, 14:31:19.
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté December 25, 2013, 15:26:16 | #19
Kikui, I figured out an idea that could be joined with aggressive bramble.

What do you think about making Aggressive Bramble having a linear attraction spell that holds the target just like Karchamrak, and then it throws the target to any direction without the need of line of sight and linear?

The plant would have to be controllable by the Sadida then.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 25, 2013, 21:04:24 | #20

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 25 December 2013 15:26) *
Kikui, I figured out an idea that could be joined with aggressive bramble.

What do you think about making Aggressive Bramble having a linear attraction spell that holds the target just like Karchamrak, and then it throws the target to any direction without the need of line of sight and linear?

The plant would have to be controllable by the Sadida then.
I'd avoid adding new summons to Sadida.