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Sadi Changes - Plants, Dolls and Bramble Armor
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté December 25, 2013, 22:43:28 | #21
It's not about avoiding, the class needs more than just dolls, more versatility. In Dofus they summon plants, even though they just serve to block line of sight or as an optional healing source. The current Sadida class lacks gameplay, this is what we have now:

  • Spam dolls brainlessly and slow down fight strategy.
  • Refuse to use dolls and go all the way doing damage or healing.
  • Optional but ineffective: bramble armor

The class really needs something more, and that's why I'd love to see plants around. Plus the idea of having a bramble that can drag enemies and throw away is quite interesting, somehow a new concept (even though that it uses the same spell as Pandawas).

Placing plants strategically in the map and use them to move allies or dolls according to your needs seem a lot more promising than what we currently have.

Also, the class was ''revamped'' before the level 200 spells were even added to the game and some abilities remained untouched such as intoxicated (which should have 200 levels by now). The revamp that Sadidas received was no more than a slightly modification to avoid any bug exploit and make them more reliable, slightly more prepared, for Frigost.

Now, after Foggernaut and the future Feca revamp, I do want a complete modification of this class as I feel forgotten behind. They have even added a whole (and extremely good) role for the Earth fogger branch.
When talking about frustration, the same thing happens to Enutrofs, the only difference is that they're currently good (lacking gameplay however). But Sadidas just look as a jack of all trades and master of none.


Edit: edited main topic



Parasite Grass
-- Need to work on something. Open to ideas.

Toxic Blossom
It is controlled by the Sadida.
This plant bombards enemies with a cross area of effect, poisoning them.
Level Added: +5, +15, +25 (of Sudden Chill, Intoxicated and Tetatoxin)
Range: 2 to 5
HP: 25% of Sadida's


Aggressive Bramble
This bramble will drag an enemy/ally and throw it away (similar to Gobby Bulga spell). The spell deals earth damage.
It is controlled by the Sadida.
Range 1 to 3
Throw Range: 1 to 3
HP: 25% of Sadida's

Tree of Life
Tree of Life will redirect all damage received as healing to the attacker, not that enemies can use it to heal themselves!
40% of Sadida's HP.
Heals 2,32,60 HP when damage is received (max 3x per target) (example)


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - December 25, 2013, 23:09:05.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 25, 2013, 22:55:28 | #22
I have to disagree about the part with intoxicated. Its like saying sacrier should get 200 angrr or pandawa should get level 200 merry before getting worn out. Some effects are meant to have only 100 levels, some even have less or just 1.


p.s.
...what is gobugga spell?


Quote (Niddhoggy @ 25 December 2013 22:43) *
[...]not that enemies can use it to heal themselves![...]
Did you meant "note" (was it typo)? Or enemies can't use it heal themself?


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - December 25, 2013, 22:59:11.
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté December 25, 2013, 23:00:08 | #23
New modifications


Dolly Sacrifice
This spell is good as it is as a way to remove unwanted dolls from a fight, currently the healing bonus is no more than just a secondary and unimportant effect. That's why I wanted to add something new to this spell, the ability of resurrecting an ally.

Same AP, same Range, same effects on dolls and voodolls.

[New]
Is targetable on a KO'd ally if there is at least one doll out in the fight.
Ressurrects the Ally
Costs 1 Additional WP
Costs 2 Additional AP
Kills all dolls in the map
Heals 0(40) HP [Chromatic] per doll killed.

Edit: yes it was a typo, thanks for locating it  


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - December 25, 2013, 23:03:29.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 25, 2013, 23:01:14 | #24

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 25 December 2013 22:43) *
Heals 2,32,60 HP when damage is received (max 3x per target) (example)
A simple math fix: It cannot heal by 60 if it heal 2 on level 1 and 32 on level 100. That would make healing of 62 at level 200 not 60. If you want it to heal 60 at level 200 and heal 2 at level 1 then it would have to heal 31 at level 100.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté December 25, 2013, 23:02:38 | #25
As pointed, it is just an example. I am not concerned in how much it heals or damages, Ankama has the math behind the range, AP, area of effect costs. I just give approximate numbers  


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - December 25, 2013, 23:02:55.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 25, 2013, 23:04:23 | #26
Ok, still: what is gobugga spell? Is that some language version of Karchamrak of pandawa?


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - December 25, 2013, 23:04:40.
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté December 25, 2013, 23:08:16 | #27
Gobby Bulga I meant, I don't know if it still has the same spell it had last time I went to the dungeon. It swallows an enemy and throws away. The difference is that the bramble would simply hold it.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - December 25, 2013, 23:08:45.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 25, 2013, 23:13:18 | #28
About dolly sacrifice usage i disagree a bit. The removal of doll take too much time. The transformation to seed is not even needed. It would be better to make cheaper doll cost in the first place and that would be good enough itself to remove doll from cell with single cast of dolly sacrifice and summon it again or different doll in its place or even in different cell wich would be more convenient considering the fact that sadida need to cast elemental spells on seed and those have their own range limitations and conditions wich might not fit for the place from wich the doll was turned to seed. Giving ability to place seed with no LoS would be also good enough to make the doll again where it was in case our no los spells would hit the seed there.


And as for the healing from dolly sacrifice i disagree with the statement that its not important. It used to be very important when it was the only way for sadida to heal itself without using WP for Tree. The fact that we got self healing from mudoll ruined this spell. Maybe it wouldn't be that lame if it would heal for the proper amount of HP per AP invested. Let's see i make blocker with 2AP & 1WP for seed + 4AP from bramble + 1 AP from dolly sacrifice but all i get is heal of .... 15 HP base maybe? 15 heal for 7AP cost and removal of doll from cell (wich will make me in need to summon it again - read: add even more cost). Seriously thats not even funny, that pathetic heal. They need to increase the heal for this spell as i think its very important part of sadida summoner gameplay. It is esential to get back enough HP when sacrificing doll so that you can survive few more hits while your re-position them or change their type, else people will be afraid to even try to sacrifice dolls as that will make them feel like wasting AP and they'd rather nettle it and make enemy kill it.

So heal of dolly sacrifice need imporvement and this spell should not turn to seed but remove doll from cell immediately for faster gameplay.

But i like the idea of additional effect when cast on ally instead of doll. Though i am not sure if it should be the change that you mentioned.


Quote (Niddhoggy @ 25 December 2013 23:08) *
Gobby Bulga I meant, I don't know if it still has the same spell it had last time I went to the dungeon. It swallows an enemy and throws away. The difference is that the bramble would simply hold it.
Ok i was thinking to do the same with ultrapowerful being able to use its big hands for throwing allies, however i met 1 difficulty for that, wich is the same in your "new summon" concept.

Basically: what if i won't throw just hold target? Will that target be unable to attack? I suppose it will. But what if i hit the cell with that summon while it holds someone? Does it mean i can permanently protect someone while my summon hold somebody? And what if i sacrifice that plant (can i sacrifice it like doll? but spell is called Dolly sacrifice... not plant sacrifice... i wouldnt like name change either). The plant may die but then i can summon it again. If i will use that summon to hold me i would gain cooler protection then from brambly armor. Pandawa will also loose its trademark, wich is to carry allies. People would rather use the summon of sadida there as that would not make any of allies get hurt, while pandawa need to not die. This is why i realised no summon should be allowed to do that. However "teleporting someone" from x cell to y number of cells behind with fixed number on these cells (by avoidign the "carry" situation) would be possible. Still i'd rather do that during my own turn rather then summon turn, wich moves after me, so it means i can't really make good use of that "throw". It is also why i suggested for Bramble spell to allow us to throw someone (techniacally teleport someone 1 to 3 cells in the desired direction, except behind as it require loss and we have gust to push things). The spell i suggested would be handy situationally. It could be used to gain some distance alternatively to gust spell but would be more flexible, though with LoS limitation. It would be used to bring enemy closer or to place it closer to dolls or maybe between dolls even without moving the dolls.

Also the plants... flowers i mean - they could be placed as microbots (noone can be blocked by them and they have no HP). It would be something more of a Bed of Spikes type of "summon", a glyph of 1 or few cell size (without charges). It could last few turns like Fleeches of Ecaflip or permanently until it get replaced or until effect triggers (sometime like traps of sram but visible). That i would like.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté December 25, 2013, 23:24:35 | #29
Ah about the time, I completely agree, it takes a lot of time to take all dolls from map. I'd love to see it just removing dolls from battle instead of turning them into seeds, but since I removed seeds from my suggestion, it's already implicit that it would kill a doll.

Now for healing, it's true, but the current muddoll is nice and I wouldn't like to see it nerfed just to make Dolly Sacrifice important, maybe the healing bonus could be replaced by damage bonus, or control bonus for just one turn? Something that's better than what we have right now.

By the way, I was tempted to make the KO'd ally turn into some kind of weird doll for 1 turn, that can only cast doll spells XD and then 1 turn after the ally comes back to the original form, would be fun XD


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 25, 2013, 23:27:04 | #30

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 25 December 2013 23:24) *
Now for healing, it's true, but the current muddoll is nice and I wouldn't like to see it nerfed just to make Dolly Sacrifice important, maybe the healing bonus could be replaced by damage bonus, or control bonus for just one turn? Something that's better than what we have right now.
NO! Don't even suggest that or Grou might read it !


Quote (Niddhoggy @ 25 December 2013 23:24) *
By the way, I was tempted to make the KO'd ally turn into some kind of weird doll for 1 turn, that can only cast doll spells XD and then 1 turn after the ally comes back to the original form, would be fun XD
I liked more the idea to make ally that died saved by casting Voodoll on it and maybe then it could be that voodoll instead of himself (with no spells to attack just mp to move maybe) and if it would survive for few turns then it would ressurect with the amount of the HP left on voodoll.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté December 25, 2013, 23:31:11 | #31
D:


About the holding and protection, just like Pandawas, the enemy is free to move away and get out of the carrying state. But since brambles usually have spikes, maybe it could deal some damage to the enemy if it decides to move away.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté January 11, 2014, 16:43:03 | #32
By the way how'd you like "Lone Sadida" to work with dolls and change its name and icon to something like this:

 


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté January 12, 2014, 21:46:43 | #33
I update a lot of aspects Kikui in the main topic, I'll list them here.

For Lone Sadi Kikui, check my suggestion down here



Seeder [Revamp of Doll Seed]
This spell now replaces doll seed. It has exactly the same costs (with the exception of WP cost, which is removed).
However, it does not summon dolls anymore. It summons Living Plants, based in the type of damage received.
Plants do not remove the effects of Lone Sadida.

  • Fire: destroys the Seed.
  • Air: Toxic Blossom
  • Earth: Aggressive Bramble
  • Water: Tree of Life

Plants cost Control just like Dolls.
Plants are static creatures, their turn will be always after Sadida's and they are not present in the initiative line.



Toxic Blossom
It is controlled by the Sadida.
Poison Powder: circle area of effect around the plant. Increases the level of already applied poison by (5) (12) (25). (great combo with poisoned wind).
Range: 1 to 3
HP: (15) (150) (300) Based in Air Mastery.
Resists: 0%


Aggressive Bramble
This bramble will drag an enemy and throw it away (similar to Gobby Bulga spell). The spell deals earth damage.

It is controlled by the Sadida.

Bramble Hug: (2) (20) (40) damage (enemy) dealt when the target is thrown. The bramble can drag and throw 1 target per turn.
Range 1 to 3
Throw Range: 1 to 3
HP: (15) (150) (300) based in Earth Mastery
Resists: 0%



Tree of Life
Tree of Life will redirect all damage received as healing to the attacker, note that enemies can use it to heal themselves!
HP: (18) (180) (360) based in Water Mastery
Resists: 0%
Regenerates 20% of it's life per turn.
Heals 2,32,60 HP when damage is received (max 3x per target) (example)


[Dolls] Spells rebalanced.


[Brambly Armor not changed anymore, instead of changing it I added this passive]


Ebony Skin [Doll Link revamp]
This passive increases the fire resistance of the Sadida and improves the effectiveness of Brambly Armor.

Effects:
  • Increases the Fire Resistance by 0(40)%
  • Returns 1 AP to the Sadida if Brambly Armor is applied to an ally 0(50%)
  • Bramble Armor spells now adds Regrowth with a level of 0(40)% of Brambly Armor's level.
  • Regrowth: the Brambly Armor regrows in the beginning of the next turn.
Example: 100 level armor applied, next turn the armor regrows at level 40.




Summon Sacrifice:
3 AP at max level.
5 Range (no line of sight) at max level.
Cannot be increased.

  • Doll: kills the Doll, heals 0(25) HP Chromatic, returns 2 AP.
  • Summon: steals 0(20)% of it's HP.
  • Plants: becomes a Seed and returns all AP.



Poison Master
This passive now adds a Poison Enchanter state to the Sadida.
  • When an air spell is cast on any doll (except Ultra Powerful): +0(2) Level of Poison Enchanter per AP/MP.
  • When a doll dies they release a poisonous fog around them adding 0(40) levels of Intoxicated.
  • Poison Enchanter: +1% Damage (Sadida) per level. Max level of 70. Disappears if not stacked.


Intoxicated: the state changes, since the revamp happened before we had level 200 spells. It now has 200 levels and deals 50 air damage at level 200. The amount of Intoxicated added by spells is not changed.




Poisoned Wind [Revamped]
2 AP. Adds 0 (18) (36) levels of Thetatoxin.
1 to 3 Range, fixed.
Damage: 2 (15) (30)
2 per target per turn.


Earthquake
This idea was given by Kikuihimonji. She is probably going to use it during her next suggestion, I loved it so I am sharing it there already!

MP: 1
Cast per turn: 5
Damage: 3 (29) (58)
Effect: spawns an earthquake beneath a random target in map (allies and enemies).



Photosynthesis (Lone Sadi revamp)
Increases the damage and heals of the Sadida per plant present in map and also increases the damage of plant type spells.
  • +0(30)% Damage per plant (max 80%).
  • +0(30)% Heals per plant (max 80%).
  • +0(40)% Earth Damage



This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - January 12, 2014, 21:51:57.
Short Strich * Member Since 2010-12-17
posté January 18, 2014, 08:21:25 | #34
so many great ideas o.o I love the tree idea with photosynthesis and I also like the simpler modification of making it "sadida's shoe" and just add the damage if we have dolls or not. I really think the idea of "the mp you have left over is the +% damage/heal" you get at end of turn.

Similar to merry. 1mp might be like +5% damage/heal.