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air/water Sadida help
Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2013-05-08
posté February 18, 2014, 01:30:01 | #1
air/water Sadida help Hey so I'm currently working on a water/air Sadida with dolls mainly using the Greedy and sometimes the ultra powerful . I'm not quite sure how strong air/water is but seems to be working fine for me early levels as I have never really gotten that far. I was wondering what are good skills to use, specialities, gear as well as what to dump my points into. Right now I am mainly using rust, mudoll, stench, sudden chill, poison wind, and sometimes earthquake. And could someone please tell me how to properly use voodoll? I have found no use for this skill. Thanks.


This post has been edited by Huangnificent - February 18, 2014, 05:25:46.
Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2012-08-08
posté February 19, 2014, 01:50:21 | #2

Quote (Huangnificent @ 18 February 2014 01:30) *
And could someone please tell me how to properly use voodoll? I have found no use for this skill.
I primarily play an earth Sadida so I'm not the best person to help you with the nitty-gritty of water/air tactics, but Voodoll is something I know.

The first thing to understand about Voodoll is that it has a stupidly low amount of health for the punishment it's likely to take. Even with both Voodoll and Knowledge of Dolls maxed out, 40% of the target's HP isn't going to give you a sturdy Voodoll except against the toughest of monsters. That said, it is still one of your most valuable specialties and I highly recommend leveling it (though it can be safely ignored at lower levels, when most monsters have really low HP).

Primarily, you'll use Voodoll to help yourself and your team-mates whenever there is a single target (ally or enemy) that you want to be focusing on, especially if it's not a target that can be easily reached by everyone at all times. For example, you might link the Voodoll to an ally, letting you and your other allies heal them through the Voodoll no matter how far off they get. Or you might link Voodoll to an enemy, so that everyone can gang up on the doll when they can't get at the enemy (this is an especially valuable tactic with some higher level bosses). You can also use it to effectively multiply area of effect damage by 1.5 if the attack hits both the Voodoll and the target it's linked to (Voodoll counts as a Doll, and thus only takes half damage from AoE spells, which is why it's not 2x damage). Finally, some Sadida spells have extra or more powerful effects if you cast them on the Voodoll instead of the target.

Since you're water/air, I'll skip over Earth. And Air, actually, since Air spells have no extra effect on Voodoll vs. the real target, though it does let you be a little tricky with poisons. I'll get to that after. Anyway, these are all in addition to the universal benefits listed above.

Sadida's Tear:
The bread-and-butter of an offensive Water Sadida. Whenever you have a Voodoll summoned, casting Sadida's Tear will cause whoever is linked to the Voodoll to either be healed (if they're an ally) or damaged (if they're an enemy) by about 1/3rd of the base damage of Tear. The best part is that you don't have to attack your Voodoll for this effect to work! Simply having the Voodoll linked to someone is enough to trigger it, so it is effectively an 33% increase in damage for a one-time cost of 4AP (assuming nothing tragic happens to your doll). If you have 10 AP and can cast Tear twice a turn, any enemy with a Voodoll linked to it is in for some serious pain.

Mudoll: Casting Mudoll on your Voodoll will increase the amount of healing you can send to a target immensely. Without Voodoll, Mudoll is a respectable heal, but it's really no comparison to an Eniripsa. With Voodoll and some Lone Sadida stacks, however, it's an even match. It's best used when you need to keep one specific person alive (usually the tank), and you don't want an army of Inflatable dolls cluttering the field. NOTE: Casting Mudoll on a Voodoll will heal the target, regardless of whether they're friend or foe. It is entirely possible to heal the enemy with this combo, which will make you very unpopular with your team. However, it's great for use on Living Dead enemies that take damage from healing anyway.

Air Spells: Okay, this is just something I learned while goofing around a while ago, and I have no idea how viable it is in actual combat (I suspect "not very"). Air spells on their own have no extra effect when cast on a Voodoll, but what does happen is that whatever poison you hit them with will be applied to both the Voodoll and the target. So if you hit a Voodoll with Woodland Stench, the doll will take damage on it's turn from the poison, and so will the enemy, because they're linked. Then on the enemy's turn, they take damage from their own poison. This effectively doubles your poison damage (though I imagine it would kill your Voodoll pretty fast).

Also note that if you are using your Voodoll to heal allies, your enemies cannot damage that ally by hitting the Voodoll. In such a case, they'll just damage the doll, leaving your ally okay. However, if you have Doll Link leveled, the damage that gets redirected to your Voodoll will damage any linked ally. If you plan to do a lot of Voodoll healing, I'd suggest staying far away from that passive.

One final thing: Voodoll counts as an ally for any spell that cares about such things (such as Mudoll damaging enemies and healing allies). Not especially relevant to you, since all the effects of various spells on the Voodoll are explained in the spell descriptions, but some other classes might be caught off guard. A Water Mask, for example, will just end up healing the enemy if he tries to attack your Voodoll, since their spells work similarly to Mudoll (harm enemy, heal ally). This isn't likely to be a huge problem since so few spells care about precisely who you're hitting, but it's something to watch out for.

I hope that was helpful. Good luck with your Sadida!


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-02
posté February 25, 2014, 20:54:08 | #3
[ Created a New thread - Follow up of suggestions]

AIR WATER & BASIC SADIDA GUIDE




This post has been edited by aquabeauty - February 26, 2014, 23:55:11.
Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-10-15
posté February 26, 2014, 06:02:11 | #4



Quote (aquabeauty @ 25 February 2014 20:54) *
Hey there,

I am Aqua an Air/Earth level 144 Sadida from Nox. I dont know if you're from Nox; but if you are then maybe sometime we could both log in and I'll be more than happy to show you some really helpful sadi tricks. But to get to what you were asking of us.... tee-hee >.<

...

[b]W.I.P = WORK IN PROGRESS
[/b]

This should really be put into its own thread, since you seem to have put a lot of effort into it. The last thing you want is it getting lost in the forums without reaching a full audience.

A couple things I noticed whiling reading through this however:

Specialty Leveling Order:

Under the Sic Em More spell you state that it gives the blocks +2 MP at max level. It actually gives +3 MP, giving the Blocks a total of 4 MP. I agree that this spell is very important for increasing your Doll's MP in situations were you cant rely on Green Guard. However, I disagree that Sic Em More and Dolly Sacrifice are just perks to a build. Both of these are important for Map control and manipulation, allowing you to have way better control over your Dolls. Not having them leveled will make any Summon Sadida derp more often then they should.

For someone who will be summoning often, it seems odd to level Tree before Voodoll or Lone Sadida. Summoners already have to invest in a lot of points in other abilities, and both Voodoll and Lone Sadida are useful at end game. Voodoll has a number of uses outside of just UBs and increasing your own damage, and should be in your arsenal before Tree. Hagen Daz is 100 times easier if you summon a Voodoll and push that into things instead. You can get around Yech'ti'wawa's (and Black Crow's) reflect armour while also being able to kill Wawa quickly if he goes invisible. "Dead" players in Necro dungeon can hit Missiz Freezz from a safe distance without having to go to close to her. Having Tree, instead of Voodoll, while being in the level range for these dungeons seems like a waste to me. It seems your leveling order is more in line for PvP, rather then PvE, since Voodoll is basically useless in PvP.

This section may just need to be edited still though. You mention under Voodoll that you should level it before Dolly Sacrifice and Sic Em More, but have it last in your list. It would be more visually attractive if you had level ranges instead of numbers. One point in Explodoll can also be useful in some situations.

Dolls:

You mention that Air spells cast on the Block may be bugged. It's not actually bugged, but instead, has a different mechanic called Puffle, I believe. This is a different spell then the one you cast on your Doll, with a base range of 1-4. How it works is you cast as many Air spells as you want on the Doll. These spells are stored on the Doll, and unlocks the spell Puffle on the Doll. When you use Puffle on an enemy or empty cell (note it doesn't work on allies) it releases all of the stored Air spells at once. So to summarize, it goes from Air Spells to Puffle back to Air Spells, with the spell Puffle having different mechanics then the original Air spells.

Spells:

Under Mudoll, your description matches Drain. I think you mixed up the name.

Combos:

I am most familiar with 10 AP combos, so I can help add some to that.

Seed > Seed > Rust > Sic Em More
Seed (Beside Ally) > Drain (On Seed) > Drain (On Doll or enemy)
Seed > Drain > Sic Em More > Mudoll
Seed > Seed > Wild Grass > Wild Grass (Basic Block Summoning)
Seed > Sudden Chill > Vapourize > Gust (Gust Dolls can be useful as well, but generally a waste of AP)
Seed > Wild Grass > Vapourize > Sic Em More > Gust (Summons a 4 MP Block with Gust saved on it, good for map manipulation and control)
Sudden Chill > Woodland Stench > Woodland Stench
Sudden Chill > Mudoll > Mudoll
Drain > Mudoll > Mudoll

Plus, there are a ton of situational ones as well that would be almost impossible to list all of, like if you need to control and nettled a Doll on your turn, it would leave you with 8 AP, which can be used for things like Sudden Chill x2, Drain x2, Poison Wind x4, Woodland Stench x2 + Poison Wind, Mudoll x2 + Poison Wind. As a Sadida, its generally best to just try different things out, and see what works, lol. By using Dolls tactically, you can pull off a lot of situational combos that would be almost impossible to list.





Overall, I was impressed with your first draft of this guide. It's nice to see that you have changed your opinion on the Sadida class. My opinion of you as a person, however, remains unchanged.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-02
posté February 26, 2014, 07:09:57 | #5
@ Moon

Lol thanks, Still working on the guide.. I am working on it right now since I just finished doing my real life things. I will quickly reply.


Quote
This should really be put into its own thread,


This is really good advice, once I finish compiling everything and giving people credit I will most definitely make it it's own thread.

Also Thanks for noticing all of those typos and mishaps, I have typed most of the guide while I've been in class and I have noticed even more mistakes. I need to heavily review this once again.


Quote
For someone who will be summoning often, it seems odd to level Tree before Voodoll or Lone Sadida.

Highly debatable. Voodoll is only really good for bosses and Ubs because they have a lot of hp. Use it in regular situations and you will burn though wp faster than you can summon your dolls. I would say this is really up to the player and what build works best for his team or group of friends. I took this player as a person who solo plays so i tried to build the specialties guide around his situation.

If you take notice, All of the scenarios you mentioned were bosses and at level 110-120 I recall downing those bosses with out the use of a voo-doll but simply by mobbing her which worked well unless they tweaked her ai. I never used totem on wawa either, but simply set up for my team so that he would never go invisible. However, I do believe we had strong dpts.

Voodoll for Air/Water is also not useless in PvP, With a tear combo you should do fine that + sudden chill damage can deal some pretty crazy dmg in simply 3wps. I've noticed my totem can last about 1~2 depending on crit in pvp [sudden chill damage being applied to the target off course] and even more on bosses. I also, specifically built this for PvE because I felt that a solo player could get more use out of tree on a regular basis than he would out of totem once in a blue moon in a dungeon. You can always level a totem in a dungeon even if it is not leveled; sure your combos might be stiffled. But there is no reason why you can not summon it. Personally at level 144, I rarely use totem at all. Last time I use totem was at Black Crow.

However, the issues you have brought up are valid and although debatable they might fit someone else's play style as they develop their Sadidas. I have decided to include your reasoning as an alternative in the guide and those specialties will be grouped together. To each his own, after all.


Quote
Combos:

I will also add some of these. In the section I am working on now "How to summon dolls properly" will actually include some of the summoning Technics you have included. I have not had time to type this one up .


Quote
You mention that Air spells cast on the Block may be bugged.


I'm worried that this was never mentioned in the final revamp. Troyle also posted a "reported bugs" post once where he marked out what was intended and what was not and this was never mentioned as one of the intended features. We will see what the future holds. However, the fact that it is not LOS-less is something to keep in mind when summoning.

I regret to inform you that my opinion on Sadidas has not changed so sorry to bum you out. This class is when compared to other classes under powered and although they can aid in certain pve situations I still deem that they need A LOT of work. Mostly just the tweaking of base spell damages and doll costs and such.

I could careless of your opinion of me as a person. However, I'am still extremely intrigued by the question of what is it that I did I ever did to you. I don't play with you, I don't talk about you, I don't care about you or what you do, we have mutual friends, and I've never hurt you in anyway imaginable.... so its just surprising to me that you claim to "hate" and go out of your way to insult/bully me when you can. Especially when all i do is ignore you. I hope someday you figure that out, I welcome you to anka-box or pm me if you ever wish to resolve that. I don't hate you, hold any grudge, nor does it hurt me but some closure is never bad even if we never become friends after all I would appreciate if the slander and bad rumors about me ceased. Especially, if this is based on a misunderstanding.

Thanks for your feed back as I continue to work out this guide. I hope I have not mislead anyone with the errors and typos.


This post has been edited by aquabeauty - February 26, 2014, 07:12:36.