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Almanax 27 Novamaire
Skank Hivin
The Skank Hivin festival owes its name to a Dragoturkey breeder. He was so jealous of his cousin, ...

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The Tree Hugger - Sadi Suggestion
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté May 10, 2014, 20:17:59 | #1
The Tree Hugger - Sadi Suggestion
Well, hello everyone. I have decided to share my ideas on Sadida instead of restricting to where I posted it. I have changed some stuff from the original because of the feedback. This is mainly oriented to balance the three branches, the support skills are listed down with no pictures because it's easier to explain their effects.


  • Doll Seed: all AP spent on summoning a doll is retrieved, the spell costs 3 AP at level 9.
  1. Maddoll removes 2 MP after level 100.
  2. Lethargic removes 2 AP after level 100.
  3. Sacrificial Doll has the same fire mastery as the Sadida + the standard level bonus.
  4. Greedy damage should be slightly increased by 8 at 200.
  5. Inflatable healing should be slightly increased by 8 at 200.
  6. Ultra Powerful has 100% of air mastery but their spells are 60% of Sadida's (poison damage is not reduced with that).

  • Dolly Sacrifice: the Sadida gains +50 levels of Lone Sadida instead of healing at level 9.
  • Voodoo Totem: make it lose HP from enemy attacks only. Static, totem look.
  • Sic'em More: +100% general damage. Stuns sacrificial dolls but gives them +200% damage during the next turn.

  • Explodoll: +1 AP/MP to allies. -1 AP/MP to enemies. Can only be triggered by enemies. Heals/Damages 30 HP at level 20 (chromatic).
  • Doll Link: The Sadida controls all dolls around him if he finishes his turn with all dolls around (circle size 2). The Sadida gains up to 20% resistance per doll present in map.
  • Knowledge of Dolls: +3 Control at level 20.
  • Green Guard: enemies within a radius of 2 cells from a Tree receive 20% more damage and have up to 40% more chance of losing MP. When damage received, applies nettled to dolls in map (just like now).
  • Lone Sadida: the dolls will cap the maximum level of the effect, being -50 levels per doll. If you want to play with 1 doll, you can get a maximum of level 100 Lone Sadida. 2 Dolls = 50, 3 Dolls = no lone Sadida.

*Vitality: +1 max HP per level.
*D = damage bonus
*Res = resistance bonus
*Tree effects take place when they are summoned and then when the Sadi turn starts.
*Trees cost control but don't remove lone sadida















 


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - May 10, 2014, 21:37:38.
Ambitious Crackapult * Member Since 2013-02-17
posté May 10, 2014, 21:30:59 | #2
I really love tree spells  


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2011-05-07
posté May 10, 2014, 21:34:47 | #3
Interesting changes. A few questions though:

1) Would the trees count as summons/mechanisms so they're limited by control? Even if so it may lean towards OPness if you can have a field full with trees and dolls, so maybe they should have a WP cost to be refunded on destruction or dismissal, just like there is for current dolls.

2) Since you're exchanging Sudden Chill for Tree of Death, wouldn't it better to have its AoE give -Res instead, even if at a lower potency so it can keep its role at weakening foes?


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté May 10, 2014, 21:37:13 | #4
@FurmentalAlchemy

1) Both cost control, I forgot to say that. Therefore you must be a pure summoner build to be able to have lots of them in the battlefield ^^

2) I added the - res effect to Gust, but adding it to the Tree is also an interesting idea.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté May 11, 2014, 00:30:09 | #5
Instead of removing spells you could simply make Tree speciality with some range and with ability to be cast either on self (for current effect) or on seed (to make a tree grow).

Or perhaps water spells should make puddles on empty cells and if seed is cast on it then it make doll but if Tree is cast on it then it summon tree.

Also earth spells could make fertilized ground for the earth dolls from seeds or for tree of protection from Tree speciality.

And air spells could make poison flowers or poison grass that will create air dolls from seeds thrown on them or tree of death (seriously of death? maybe cursed tree? or plagued tree?).

This way we could keep our lovely Rust and other spells. Why do you think we dont summon dolls directly with elemental spells? To not waste slots for spells and to not make us screw our dmg dealing spells or dmg% from leveling spells if we want decent summons.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - May 11, 2014, 00:31:53.
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté May 11, 2014, 00:42:44 | #6
@Kikuihimonji

The grass idea sounds interesting, it would make it possible to easily summon dolls but then we would need two types of plants for each element and I could see it getting a little difficult to work out.

About the spell slots, I seen o issue at all. The Tree spell would be seriously overcharged with many possible effects, the Trees act like direct damage/healing spells because they actually do damage when they're summoned, so I don't see it as a big waste of a slot. Why do Cras have beacons as elemental spells and Rogues have bombs too?

Wakfu lacks spell slots really, it would be amazing if dolls were simply elemental spells just like they did back in the days. It would be much more easier to balance everything and give it the right cost. Sadly we have only five spell slots, I wish we had around 8 for each element, with a pattern of 5 damage skills +3 elemental support skills...



**
Actually I was thinking,

Poisoned Wind -> Poison Powder: if cast on ground creates poison flowers
Wild Grass -> If cast on ground creates wild grass
Vaporize -> Watering: creates healing bush


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - May 11, 2014, 01:39:44.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté May 11, 2014, 01:43:13 | #7

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 11 May 2014 00:42) *
@Kikuihimonji

The grass idea sounds interesting, it would make it possible to easily summon dolls but then we would need two types of plants for each element and I could see it getting a little difficult to work out.

About the spell slots, I seen o issue at all. The Tree spell would be seriously overcharged with many possible effects, the Trees act like direct damage/healing spells because they actually do damage when they're summoned, so I don't see it as a big waste of a slot. Why do Cras have beacons as elemental spells and Rogues have bombs too?

Wakfu lacks spell slots really, it would be amazing if dolls were simply elemental spells just like they did back in the days. It would be much more easier to balance everything and give it the right cost. Sadly we have only five spell slots, I wish we had around 8 for each element, with a pattern of 5 damage skills +3 elemental support skills...

And i'd hate to level 1 spell from x branch just to make my summon keep up in being good. It would be like a must have to max those and i would be left with no other spells to attack. Would be no difference then summoning-only gameplay, wich sucks. Osamodas dont need to level any elemental spells for summoning so why should sadida?

Besides i belive Ankama want each class to have different way of summoning stuff not the same, hence why cra's beacons are in spells and osa capture creatures and rogue got 1 branch instead of 1 bomb for each branch like cra. They are different and they are meant to be different and you want to make them the same?


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - May 11, 2014, 01:45:21.
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté May 11, 2014, 02:03:54 | #8
Osa summon's damage is not based on their elemental mastery 


Ambitious Crackapult * Member Since 2011-12-01
posté May 11, 2014, 02:55:19 | #9

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 11 May 2014 02:03) *
Osa summon's damage is not based on their elemental mastery
You are right, Osa's don't have to worry about leveling spells to help increase their mastery as they only need to rely on their +Summon Damage gear. Giving their already high HP and Base Damage summons a large edge.

While I do like the Tree's idea, as a Sadida I'd love to summon a forest, as Kiku mentioned, it would require a lot of spell points into a tree to make it viable. This would force the Sadida to chose one tree so they can use spells, or all tree's, and not really be able to do anything on their own.... but I digress, as I'm not sure I have anything to add at this point and am just rambling.

> Hmm, no thoughts on the Dolls, Voodoo Totem,Dolly Sacrifice, Explodoll as of now, need to think more on it.

> Confused about the "Stuns Sacraficial's but gives them +200% dmg next turn" on Sic'm More.

> That is an insane amount of Res to the Sadida with 6 max dolls (if there still is that cap, you don't have the specialties costs and exact stats listed), giving the Sadida +120% general resistance.

> While I like the +3 control on Knowledge of Dolls, is that all the skill does? Also, getting +2 control is super easy to hit that max of 6 (again if that still is in effect). Only way I can see this needing to be so high is if Tree's didn't have a cast limit, but that could get outrageously silly and 100% wouldn't happen. You do not explain your tree's very closely, such as: Limit on them (just control or a cap like dolls and is the cap shared with dolls) and the AoE's may have nice little pictures, but don't explain the exact area. Is it a Square1, Circle2, Circle3, Cross1, Cross2, Cross3.... and so on?

> Green Guard's 40% chance of losing MP happens when? When they move? For each MP they use? At the start of their turn?

> Lone Sadida seems a bit odd having it change based on the amount of spells, mainly because of the same name. As soon as there is a doll, you're no longer alone. Also, what made you go with -50 levels per doll? Does it still gain only +30 per turn with no dolls. Does it still gain if you have 1 doll out (since you're allowed to have some), or do you need to let it build first, then summon a doll (as having a doll would stop you gaining it each turn)? Could you not, with the new Dolly Sac you proposed just make 2 dolls and sac it them in one turn to get a quick +100?

> The tree's, obviously being static things and one in each tree, reminds one of Cra Beacons. With the insane amount of things these can do compared to those, but only having a 3ap cost, but beacons cost 1wp, does that not seem a bit unbalanced? Especially so as the trees each have multiple effects.

> Some of the states you listed need a bit more description. Such as Incurable, is there a cap? If so, what is it? What does Vitality do for dolls? When giving AP/MP with fertilizer, you gave it an infinite duration? Why so and how does that work? Could I just keep casting that on a doll over and over again and get it to like 50AP 50MP, and that never wear off (as that would be super broken)? Or is there a cap?

> Did you make any changes to the Air spells poisons, or no changes and that's why you left out the descriptions?

> Why does K'mir have a range of 2? And how would that work? Would the pulled target always leave a space between, or would it pull the target to the Sadida first and then follow the Sadida like normal?

> What are the Range Restrictions on your spells? Are they Modifiable? Do they have No Line of Sight? Do they need to be cast in a line (like Tear)?





Anywho, those are things I would want clarified before I could make any informed decisions. Not to say I don't like the ideas (again, I really would love to summon trees), but at the moment, there is not information.





- Kat


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté May 11, 2014, 03:31:18 | #10
  • It makes the Sacri doll miss a turn but during the next turn it gets a high damage bonus.
  • The resist buff may be high, maybe it should be 15% per doll. However I want to make it clear that this makes summon Sadidas resistant only if the dolls remain alive, if you want to drop the resist you have to kill them.
  • That is right about Knowledge of Dolls, I havent thought about that. It basically just gives control, leaving spot for a new bonus which I have no idea of what it could be right now!
  • It increases the chance on MP loss spells, like Manifold, Bramble and Fertilizer.
  • About Lone Sadi, I did that to make it useful for builds that do not want to spam dolls but want to fight with some. The bonus still scales with +30 per turn, but the doll caps the maximum level it can reach.
  • The Motivated state has a cap of 6 (I have listed this I think), meaning that the doll can get a maximum of 6 AP and 6 MP (it requires 30 AP spent though...)
  • I have listed also that Vitality increases HP, +1 HP per level of vitality, infinite too or it would not make much sense. It extends their maximum HP, if you add 100 Vitality to a doll that has 350/350 HP it goes to 450/450 HP.
  • The Trees do have multiple effects but they take place on different targets, meaning that dolls would only get the doll buff, allies the ally buff and enemies the damage, the bonuses also do not stack. I forgot to say that it is not possible to put a Tree inside the area of effect of another Tree. Trees also are easier to kill than beacon, a Sadi with 1000 hp summons Trees with HP that range from 220 to 270 ^^.
  • I only changed the Sudden Chill poison and made it Toxic (to change the name since I joined it with Gust)
  • For Kmir, it pulls the target and then links it to the Sadida, giving a bit more flexibility to this skill.
  • The range restrictions have not changed from the current spells, the ones that have changed I told it.
  • The area of effects are exactly what is shown, the only one that is different is the one of Tree of Protection that has a 2 cell cross. The one in Drain/Wild Grass is known as ring area of effect (effect that does not apply to the center, but surrounding area). The Manifold Bramble's AoE is a circle of size 2 and the square is just a square like explosive arrow.

Thanks for the comments :]


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - May 11, 2014, 03:32:46.
Ambitious Crackapult * Member Since 2011-12-01
posté May 11, 2014, 07:16:56 | #11
Thanks for clearing that up. More for me to ponder.


- Kat


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté May 11, 2014, 11:35:05 | #12
I am still against concept to loose dmg% per doll summoned. Seriously current issue is that we cannot have high enough brambly armors and heals if we summon dolls because summoning even 1 doll will make us loose up to 150% dmg% wich affects our shielding and heals - and thats one of the main issues. Your suggestion won't fix the problem will just make some pointless scaling. Does rogue loose its Initiator dmg% boost per bomb? No. So why should Sadida? How can you not see this problem? If i were to loose 50% dmg per doll i wouldn't summon them either for the same reason i don't do now if i want shielding.

If you don't want people to spam dolls but play with dolls and summon 1 or 2 randomly then let players decide by themself how many dolls they want to summon instead of forcing them to the exact numbers. When i am in need to make that blocker to potentially lock enemy then i don't want to make my shields weaker. Not to mention i'd like to shield my dolls but i don't want to shield them with crippled from dmg shields, because that would miss the point of ever doing it.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté May 11, 2014, 16:31:51 | #13
If they did that the whole idea of the passive would be gone and we would have been left with an overpowered ability compared to other classes. In order to leave Lone Sadi as it is without nerfing it, it must have some sort of punishment.

Also, dolls are the extension of the Sadida power, if you want to have both power and those extensions I can see greedies and ultra powerfuls getting overpowered. That is the issue, unless if they replace Lone Sadi by some sort of damage passive (like one that gives 10% dam per control bonus). But then again, builds that do not want to use dolls are getting smashed by that change.

Your are being selfish about the way you play, I am giving the option for builds that do not want to summon to be able to summon only a few things, I do not care about the summon spam builds since they already have all those passive and actives and the buffs I have provided in this section.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté May 11, 2014, 17:39:49 | #14

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 11 May 2014 16:31) *
If they did that the whole idea of the passive would be gone and we would have been left with an overpowered ability compared to other classes. In order to leave Lone Sadi as it is without nerfing it, it must have some sort of punishment.

You are wrong. Rogue can have initiator runs all the time from the very first turn + initiative makes them start first so they have all good stuff with no punishment. Meanwhile Sadida don't need to invest in initiative, but to be honest that would be like waste of points as it won't give us the dmg like it does for rogues; but instead Sadida have to wait 3 turns to reach full dmg% of this passive, unlike rogues who can hit hard from start. There is no need for punishment here as we already have to wait 3 turns - wich itself is a con. We have to survive long enough. And why would speciality need punishment for using it? That kind of thinking leads to underpowered Sadida that can never be in pair with other classes that have no punishments. Does iop get punished for Power increase or Virtility? No! Does Sacrier get punishment for dmg% increase when it loose HP - wich is obvious that it will loose it? No! Its rewarding him for loosing HP not making him loose HP for dmg% boost.


Quote (Niddhoggy @ 11 May 2014 16:31) *
Also, dolls are the extension of the Sadida power, if you want to have both power and those extensions I can see greedies and ultra powerfuls getting overpowered. That is the issue, unless if they replace Lone Sadi by some sort of damage passive (like one that gives 10% dam per control bonus). But then again, builds that do not want to use dolls are getting smashed by that change.

Actually such passive concept would be fine because it will let Sadida use gear with control that it uses for summoning and let it get high dmg with it even if it won't use dolls. It is silly to be in need to use 2 different sets and changing sets before each fight and making you think in advance if you will use or not use dolls for the whole fight. It makes no difference then turning to dragon as osa if we cannot change our gameplay in the middle of the fight. Hence why dmg% from control would be nice. However i am surprised you are nto adding "punishments" here. Why? So getting 120% dmg bonus with 12 control from thevery first turn seems fine but getting 50% on 1st , 100% on 2nd and 150% on 3rd needs the punishment? Where's the logic in this. Stop with punishing players for having passives. Thats like saying eniripsa should get punished for Hygiene stacks or that Feca should loose all lock every 2nd turn.



Quote (Niddhoggy @ 11 May 2014 16:31) *
Your are being selfish about the way you play, I am giving the option for builds that do not want to summon to be able to summon only a few things, I do not care about the summon spam builds since they already have all those passive and actives and the buffs I have provided in this section.

Excuse me but you are resreicting builds instead of giving an option to play differently like i do. Who's selfish here? And besdies... what gives? What does selfishness has to do with anything. I can say you are selgish the way you play too and i am giving the options for builds that do not want to summon to be able to summon as many as they want if they want it suddenly instead of restricting them to 1-3 dolls. You do not care about spam summon builds but i do care about both: 6 doll or 0 doll builds. And to be honest there should be nothing such as x number of doll builds. Thats like saying there should be x number of beacon cra builds or x number of bombs rogue builds. Silly. Rogue even with 8 control can choose to make big firewall or smaller one to not block allies movement too much or it might not use firewall at all if it will trouble allies too much or if there is no place for that without hurting allies, still it can have those 8 control and it doesn't need to change its equipement for different fights. If in the middle of the fight there will be moment where it might place firewall - it will do it. And it won't loose initiator and it won't get punished and it is not restricted by some "build". Seriously man you are doing the opposite to what you want to achive + you punish people for their personal builds.

-1 for you.


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2011-11-30
posté May 11, 2014, 17:55:02 | #15
You guys are for the same cause. I'll admit I don't read much of the posts, as I've seen them to just be arguments back and forth about who's idea should be made complete over another. Remember, you guys make the effort to make the classes better, doesn't mean these devs will listen half the time. That doesn't mean you should give up however.


OP, you put a lot of effort into giving ideas for this class it seems, even going as far as making images to display your thoughts. A lot of your ideas, however, seem to always require more of a nerf to the classes than they gain in advantage. We seem to be given a even harsher handicap for something they should already add to us for free. I won't give you too much of a harsh guideline in how to present ideas, otherwise it isn't creativity anymore, but, perhaps consider suggesting ideas that are to the betterment of the Sadida in parallel with: the other classes, game situations..etc, and not just look at the sadida alone to judge what should be given or taken away.

Good effort nonetheless.


This post has been edited by IDCAA - May 11, 2014, 17:57:45.
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté May 11, 2014, 18:51:17 | #16
The Sadida class is relatively good right now, it does not need a lot of changes. The Lone Sadi build even looks overpowered sometimes! There is no need really to change it that much. However, why in fact I have offered those ideas? The class is good but it doesnt have a decent, versatile, strategic gameplay as it should! That is why I have brought this idea to the forum. It doesnt mean, actually that the class has to be how I have offered, I am complete aware that the whole idea is not balanced, I just hope that someday some isolated thouts are taken into consideration (something that has already happened).The Trees doesnt have to be how I posted, but we must have them somehow and I am looking forward to changes like this to take place.

About the dolls, it is quite obvious that they need some change and they are probably getting it soon.

Kikui, you are really a difficult person to deal with and indeed a little selfish. You always find an explanation, despite of most of them having a fragile hypothetical basis, to fight against someone's idea. It may be perfectionism but you make it look like selfishness. I have always been trying to deal with your critics, but recently Ive come to a point that I simply can't stand. Your comments are huge, thousands of words and I never read then completely because I know where you will always end up. Not to mention that day that you left me alone in game because I had shown the pros and cons of the idea you were telling me.

I am just going to sit and wait for the changes as I have more important stuff to do. Hopefully they will do the right thing and not listen to the obssession that some players have with dolls. Dolls are tools and have always been tools. That is the difference between a Sadida and an Osamodas.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - May 11, 2014, 18:54:37.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté May 11, 2014, 19:15:21 | #17

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 11 May 2014 18:51) *
The Sadida class is relatively good right now, it does not need a lot of changes. The Lone Sadi build even looks overpowered sometimes! There is no need really to change it that much. However, why in fact I have offered those ideas? The class is good but it doesnt have a decent, versatile, strategic gameplay as it should! That is why I have brought this idea to the forum. It doesnt mean, actually that the class has to be how I have offered, I am complete aware that the whole idea is not balanced, I just hope that someday some isolated thouts are taken into consideration (something that has already happened).The Trees doesnt have to be how I posted, but we must have them somehow and I am looking forward to changes like this to take place.


Sadida is relatively good but it is far from being balanced. And i think specialities could not be related to dolls if all of the effects we have would be set on dolls by default (such as WP refund or no WP cost, wich give 1 slot open for speciality that would replace knowledge of dolls and also dolls could have explodoll as personal state such as canine dodge on boowerewolfs so it doesnt even need to be sadida speciality). The point is that Sadida can do fine without specialities as its own spells are "relatively good" as you said, hence it doesn't need improvements to spells like other classes (such as ecaflip's passive that give water bonus when we cast flea-spells or angrr of sacrier, that could be as well set on each sacrier by default). Ankama simply had to do some specialities for each class and i feel its good that Sadida had/have specialities that improve dolls not the spells that are fine already. It means that using dolls should be better as we level up. We know it isnt because of the costs and fragilness but thats another story.

Thos ideas of trees are questionable. They are both interesting and not balanced and imo change sadida gamaplay too much, while we don't need new way of playing but rather return of the gameplay that we had in beta combined with possible current gamplay.


Quote (Niddhoggy @ 11 May 2014 18:51) *
Kikui, you are really a difficult person to deal with and indeed a little selfish. You always find an explanation, despite of most of them having a fragile hypothetical basis, to fight against someone's idea. It may be perfectionism but you make it look like selfishness. I have always been trying to deal with your critics, but recently Ive come to a point that I simply can't stand. Your comments are huge, thousands of words and I never read then completely because I know where you will always end up. Not to mention that day that you left me alone in game because I had shown the pros and cons of the idea you were telling me.

I am just going to sit and wait for the changes as I have more important stuff to do. Hopefully they will do the right thing and not listen to the obssession that some players have with dolls. Dolls are tools and have always been tools. That is the difference between a Sadida and an Osamodas.

I can tell you that at first i am not reading your wall of text either, but when i get time i do try to read it all. Still when i see your ideas being repeatedly the same despite the previous discussions i see no point reading it all where there is more then 3 things that i disagree with.
Also the person who call other people selfish is usually selfish itself. Thats all i have to say to you as you are thinking only how you would be playing this class with the changes you suggest instead of thinking about everybody's opinions. And i am not difficult person but more likely i am trying to aim for perfection. Perhaps i could say what i like about your ideas but basically if i won't say a bad word about something you suggested it means that i have no "but" about it and it is quite fine.

p.s. I didn't left you. Sorry but thats one big L.O.L. for me reading this. And i wouldn't leave because of some discusions. I left because there was SEA server opened and i felt like playing wakfu not just in asturb and not just by pvpes. I wanted to level proffesions and experinece myself the hard parts of leveling between each proffesion levels to be able to comment on what should be changed and what mats for what item, what we have too many to craft and what item is too much important for too many items, etc. This had nothing to do with you and i am surprised that you took it personally. I said i am not gonna sub untill sadida class get proper revamp but i didn't said i am not gonna play on free to play server for that sake. And actually i think that it was right decision as i can keep up with all the changes and new content that Ankama release. Go on blame me for playing.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-18
posté May 11, 2014, 22:17:42 | #18
I agree with Kiku and IDCAA, penalties on sadida isn't what we should be asking for.

Love the tree ideas so much though, best spell suggestions I"ve ever seen ^^
Too bad the wakfu devs don't care about their subscribers

They only care about a pvp they will add in 2016


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté May 12, 2014, 07:22:11 | #19
I like the suggestions, I think while it may not be perfect, this is really interesting.
Very versatile.

I find some of the comparisons laughable though. Comparing what is a support class to a damage dealer isn't a fair comparison, especially when not every speciality has the same weight.
Its like you find and pick something very strong, from every class. Sadida is not "roll the best features from every class into one at the same or a reduced cost"
Trade offs are required - if you want an exceptionally strong xyz then you need to trade something else for it. An example would be one of the Fecas glyphs which trades block for crit. On the right character (a cra) its a great trade off and very beneficial.
Having a negative attached can be a very good thing. Take some of the most popular weapons.

@Kikus comparison to Initiator
Why not compare it to temporal prism? They increase at the same rate if the Xelor uses two elements a turn. But again, one is a damage dealer and one is aimed at support. Both have penalties. If xelors mono element, the state rises slower and in the proposed - if you summon dolls it will limit the maximum.
Personally I think the -dmg% shouldn't be as harsh, but again. Don't pick and choose your comparisons - I could just as easily compare it to Compulsion or even Expert Healer and suddenly Lone Sadida looks completely overpowered.

About post length, everyone is already saying they cant be bothered reading each others walls. Why bother replying to them - if youre only going to select certain lines? Condense the information, make it clear, remove the senseless bickering.. and you wonder why the forums dont take sadidas seriously. :l


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté May 12, 2014, 11:26:47 | #20

Quote (Soundtrack8 @ 12 May 2014 07:22) *
@Kikus comparison to Initiator
Why not compare it to temporal prism? They increase at the same rate if the Xelor uses two elements a turn. But again, one is a damage dealer and one is aimed at support. Both have penalties. If xelors mono element, the state rises slower and in the proposed - if you summon dolls it will limit the maximum.
Personally I think the -dmg% shouldn't be as harsh, but again. Don't pick and choose your comparisons - I could just as easily compare it to Compulsion or even Expert Healer and suddenly Lone Sadida looks completely overpowered.
Compulsion comes with Power on iop, Expert Healer comes with Hygiene.
If you look at this from that point of view lone sadida increasing is fine. However if you look at Temporal Prism that increase even with sinistros summoned then you can see how unfair it is for lone sadida to loose all bonus from summoning.

Also Xelor is somehow a support too because it can give AP's to allies. You could even say sacrier is support due to its field control abilities. No class should be classified as "it is not supposed to deal dmg".