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Doll Revamp
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2011-02-02
posté June 02, 2014, 18:22:17 | #1
Doll Revamp There I am again with some new thoughts about the class. These ones are less revolutionary, though. Due to the lack of attentions Sadidas have, I don't think they will ever do the right thing, which is: properly revamp the class!

But anyways, I will focus on minor changes to dolls and some elemental spells.


Dolls

Dolls currently cost way too much for their purpose. 6 AP to summon a doll is too high, but 2 or 3 AP is way too low, depending on the type of doll. What I am going to do is make only two of the four elemental spells possible to summon dolls and they will all obey the same law: 3 AP and 4 AP cost dolls on every branch.

I've been talking to many Sadida players in this forum and they all seem to want really cheap dolls, things like 2 AP greedies. I know it would be indeed nice, but I would rather have a little stronger doll with higher HP than just weak living HP walls around the battlefield. Dolls also keep doing damage after they have been summoned, which means that the base damage of the invested AP to summon them really depends on how you are good in managing to keep your dolls alive.

The one thing that I am going to revamp are dolls, since it's very clear that they need deeper changes than anything else.

I am not going to do paint stuff to expose those new ideas, they will all be written down and I am going to provide the most information I can, since I've noticed that I usually forget some important points when listing new ideas.


Vaporize
The spell does not offer anything interesting besides higher damage when you level it, but the damage isn't good enough to make it more useful than other water spells. I would suggest to make this spell increase the damage of one ally or doll by adding a state named Refreshed. The spell, however, will have lower bonuses when cast on ally, to prevent it from being way too good, and of course, dolls must have the best effects!

AP: 2 (not changed)
Range: 0 to 4
Ally: +1 +20 +40 Refreshed
Doll: +2 +40 +80 Refreshed
Doll Seed: summons The Greedy.
Damage: not changed

Refreshed has 200 levels and gives 1% damage to all elements per level.

The Greedy
This doll is so far one of the best dolls we have, but it doesn't survive for long. I'm therefore buffing it and increasing it's survivability. The doll will now recover HP when attacking an enemy, the final cost of summoning a Greedy is 3 AP (1 AP from seed +2 from spell).

The AP, MP and resistances of the doll is not changed.
HP increased to 22% of Sadida HP.
Greedication: steals 5 HP water damage which increases by 0.3 per level (35 damage at 100 and 70 at 200).
The doll will be able to cast Greedication twice when buffed with Rust.
*Steal: deals damage and heals the doll for the same basic amount of damage inflicted (like Trank's Sap Surplus).



Mudoll
There is nothing to change about this spell, I am only making it the spell that summons inflatables.

Doll: summons The Inflatable

AP, HP, MP, resistances and the basic characteristics are not changed.
The Inflatable will heal an ally and increase it's AP by 1.
Swelling: The base healing is 5 and increases by 0.3 per level (35 at 100 and 70 at 200). The spell applies Doll Care +1 state, which increases the AP of the target by 1. The State has a maximum level of 1.



Rust
This spell was so far one of the spells that received many changes during the history of Sadida. I can still remember when it had nothing to do with dolls and only acted like Tear when a totem was around. I am revamping the effects of rust because I already gave a general damage bonus to vaporize. The new rust will increase the AP of all dolls inside the area of effect by 3 and the AP of all allies by 1.

AP, Range and restrictions have not been changed.
Damage increased: now 50 at 100 and 96 at 200.
(Ally): Rust +1
(Doll): Rust +3

Rust: increases the AP of the target by 1. Maximum level of 3.


Sadida's Tear
I do not intend to change the current effects and characteristics of the spell, as they are decent and balanced. I would like to change how the animation works with a totem, since it's really buggy. Remove the animation of the spell spawning on voodoll, just show the damage and that would be good enough to remove the bugs. I am also making this spell work with dolls by damaging all enemies around one and increasing their lock, dodge, critical hits or heal bonus. The damage done to the surrounding enemies will be the same done when directly casting the spell, the spell will still have it's standard effects with voodoll.
Due the buffs, it would be wise to make this the 5th water spell learned.

AP cost, range, restrictions, effects, damage are not changed.
New effect (Doll only):
+5 +50 +100 levels of Sadida's Tear to a Doll
Damages all enemies around the doll

Sadida's Tear:
(Maddol and Lethargic): +2 Dodge per level
(Greedy and Ultra Powerful): +0.25% Critical Hits per level.
(Block): +1.5 Lock per level.
(Inflatable): +2% Heals per level
Maximum level: 200



Drain
This is one of our best spells and I do not want it to be drastically changed. I will only add to it a secondary effect on dolls. If cast on a doll, the doll attacks will steal the HP of the target and gives it to the Sadida.

New Effect (Doll only): applies Drain +50 +75 +100
Drain (state): 1% of the damage inflicted redirected to the Sadida as heals (per level).





Woodland Stench
Decent spell. The damage, cost, range and restrictions are not changed. I am only changing the applied effect. The poison now has a resistance penalty to the air element alongside the HP loss. This spell summons The Ultra Powerful and refunds 1 MP.

Applies Intoxicated +1 +20 +39
Intoxicated: a state that stacks up to level 200 if applied every turn. The state now reduces the resistance of the target and damages it.

Damage: -22 HP at 100, -43 HP at 200.
New effect: -0.2% air resistance per level of the state.
Doll Seed: summons The Ultra Powerful

The Ultra Powerful
100% of Sadida's air mastery.
Memorizes 60% of the level of an air spell cast on it.
AP, MP, HP and resistances not changed.
The Doll now has a coward like behavior, it attacks and runs.



Poisoned Wind
Tetatoxin should be buffed somehow, since it's really difficult to stack it properly. Instead of revamping the effects, I suggest to increase the applied levels. The poison should also be triggered by MP or AP loss.
The spell when used on a doll seed summons a Lethargic (they now cost 3 AP to be summoned).


Tetatoxin increased to: +1 +22 +41
Doll Seed: summons The Lethargic

The Lethargic: this doll takes AP from an enemy and applies Drowsy state, when the state reaches the level 5, the target enters on Sleepy state and misses a turn as long as damage is not inflicted. The second AP loss starts at level 1 with 0% chance and increases by 0.5 per level. At 100 it has 100% chance of removing 1 AP and 50% of removing a second AP.

AP, MP, HP and resistances are not changed.
Lullaby: 1 AP, 1 per target per turn, 2 per turn. 1 to 4 Range.
-1 AP 100%
-1 AP (0, 50, 100%)
Drowsy +1

Drowsy: the target gets more and more lethargic, at level 5 enters in Sleepy State.
When awakened, the target receives the Awaken state, that prevents it from entering in Drowsy state.



Fertilizer
This spell doesn't have an interesting use right now because of it's cost. I am making it cost 2 AP and have a cast limit of two per target per turn. The spell will also apply brambly armor and summon a Madol when used on a doll seed. The spell is not linear anymore.

AP: 2 AP
Condition: 2 per target per turn.
0 to 3 Range
Deals 2 25 47 damage
Steals 1 MP 50%
Ally: applies Armor-to-Be +1 +16 +31
Doll Seed: summons The Madoll

The Madoll
Similarly to the Lethargic, Madoll will take MP from up to two enemies and apply the Annoyed state to the target. When the state reaches the level 5, the enemy will be forced to attack the Madoll before anything else.

AP, MP, HP, resistances are not changed.
Irritation:
-1 MP 100%
-1 MP (0 50 100)%
Irritated +1

Irritated: when the state reaches the level 5 the enemy enters in Taunted state, which has two possible effects:
- If it's a monster, the enemy will be more likely to chase and attack any madoll in map.
- If it's a player, the damage will be reduced by 50% if it doesn't attack a madoll. When all madolls are dead, the player can attack anyone that the damage is not going to be cut by half.
At the end of the turn, the enemy enters in Ignore state. The enemy is then immune to Irritated state for 1 turn.


Earthquake
I have an idea to maintain it's randomness but to make it more predictable. You may be wondering how it could be done and it's simple: make the Earthquake have a delay of 1 turn before it spawning and make it possible for everyone in the allied team to know where the earthquakes are going to spawn.

So, basically, that's how it would work:


You cast the spell.
A red tile appear in map. This tile is the epicenter.
During the beginning of next turn a earthquake spawns on that square.


Wild Grass
I am adding to this spell a new effect that would work similarly to Drain. When an enemy or an ally is targeted by this spell, all allies around that target will receive 50% of the Bramble Armor applied. This spell can be used to summon The Block, the MP cost is refunded. The damage, effects and characteristics have not been changed.


Doll Seed: summons The Block


AP, MP and resistances have not been changed.
HP increased to 40% of Sadida's HP.
Lock gain increased to 1.3 per level.
Inhaling applies Gravity state.

Gravity State
prevents the target from jumping or using any sort of movement spell. After the state vanishes the target becomes immune to gravity for one turn.





Knowledge of Dolls
Since I have changed Totem and removed the WP cost on dolls, this spell would remain with no useful effect besides the control bonus. I am therefore adding a passive bonus that increases the characteristics of every doll.

+0(2) Control
+0(40) Lock to The Block
+0(40) CMC
+0(20)% chance of removing AP to Lethargics
+0(20)% chance of removing MP to Madolls



Totem
Creates a static totem in map that serves as a line of sight blocker. The totem can also be used to link an enemy with Sic'em More, applying the Vodoo state. The listed states are at level 9.

2 AP 1 WP
1 to 2 Range
Creates a Totem
60% of Sadida's HP
100% of Sadida resistances
If linked to a target: all damage and healing received is redirected to that target, the resistance taken into account is the target's resistance.
It does not redirect enemy damage.



Sic'em More
The overall effects have not been changed. It gains a new effect though, if cast on an enemy or ally with a totem out in the fight, the target becomes linked to the totem.

Enemy or Ally: applies Voodoo Link state to the totem that is out in the map.
[New Effect]: control a doll.



Explodoll
This is the most useless skill we have right now, all it does is provide a stupidly low healing and damage effect when a doll dies. I will make this skill linked to Sacrificial Doll, as the only way of increasing it's damage and improve it's effects when a doll dies.

Damage/Healing effect increased to 25 at level 20 at all levels.
50% of the highest mastery added to the Sacrificial Doll's fire damage.

The Sacrificial Doll
It hasn't been changed and it still gains 1% damage per level. If you are at level 100 and your highest mastery is at 400%, the doll will have 300% fire damage and deal 200 fire damage. When the doll dies Explodoll is also triggered!


Doll Link
This is another useless skill as 10% of damage redirected under a very specific circumstance is not really practical. The old doll link was indeed good, but I think that it doesn't fit with the current characteristics of the game. Firstly, if we had the old doll link back, dolls would die a lot faster than now, since enemies usually do a lot of damage. Secondly, if we had a more powerful version it could become overpowered too easily.

So, I would simply suggest to make it apply a state named Doll Master to the Sadida whenever a doll is buffed or summoned, to fight back the Lone Sadida skill without removing it.

At maximum level:

+2 Level of Doll Master per AP/MP used to buff a doll.
+10 Level of Doll Master when a Doll summoned.
-
5 Levels of Doll master when a Doll dies.
+20% damage per Doll summoned (max 60%)

Doll Master (per level):
+1% Damage to all dolls in map at the start of Sadida's turn.
+0.5% chance of removing AP and MP to all dolls in map at the start of Sadida's turn.
+1% Resist to all dolls in map at the start of Sadida's turn.

Doll master has a maximum level of 100.


Tree

I would like to see a support aspect being added to this spell. Tree now will add Armor-To-Be to the Sadida and every other ally around him in a square are of effect. The level of Armor-To-Be is based in the quantity of MP spent.

Resist Bonus: removed
New Effect: +0(8) levels of Armor-To-Be to the Sadida and it's allies (square).


EDIT: I forgot the most important spell



Doll Seed

-> 1 AP at level 9.




This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - June 02, 2014, 19:04:41.
Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2008-07-24
posté June 02, 2014, 21:55:05 | #2
I know your thread is more about dolls than anything, but I really have to say that I like the much more supportive aspect you added to the water branch. It isn't about just spamming dolls, but you ideas gave us more ways to use dolls more efficiently. Not to mention, I like the fact that we can buff both them and our allies (similar to osas on dofus ).

I like the added lifesteal on the Greedy. I find that they die way too fast, and this can definitely help the situation! The added effects on Madoll and Lethargic add more usefulness to them, which I like too. The fact that you made Madoll a semi-tank doll through it's taunt ability was really smart!

I'm not too knowledgefull about balance though, so I can't judge any of your ideas through that. I do like all of them though!  


Ambitious Crackapult * Member Since 2013-02-17
posté June 03, 2014, 12:54:45 | #3
I like %95 of things about dolls, so nice ideas and more strategy, not just attack enemy until die
But about totem, you cant make it blocking a cell again because people abused it and made them immortal with hiding behind it before.
I think best voodoll ankama made was the little doll stands at ground, not blocking path and ally/enemy can attack target with it, and it was not moving.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté June 03, 2014, 16:17:08 | #4

Quote (Celay01 @ 03 June 2014 12:54) *
I like %95 of things about dolls, so nice ideas and more strategy, not just attack enemy until die
But about totem, you cant make it blocking a cell again because people abused it and made them immortal with hiding behind it before.
I think best voodoll ankama made was the little doll stands at ground, not blocking path and ally/enemy can attack target with it, and it was not moving.
Actually that was the worse voodoll because even dolls could step on it with their derp ai, instead of attacking it. And i didn't liked the idea for enemy to place becon on it to make me unable to use it. The best was totem and it only have flaw that it couldnt be destroyed by enemy. There's nothing wrong with blocking a cell if enemy can kill this blockade. I miss the times of totem.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - June 03, 2014, 16:20:02.
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2011-02-02
posté June 03, 2014, 16:40:53 | #5
@Seantheevil

Thanks for the feedback, I think that some things would require a lot of testing, things like Poisoned Wind and Rust's AP buff. I wouldn't mind limiting poisoned wind maybe to 2 per target per turn with a higher effect, it wouldn't be that spell you need to spam to be good and it could work very well with dolls.

@Celay01

Kikui explained everything.


There would not be a big issue if they make us unable to place it on walking path, but even without that restriction it would not get overpowered since enemies can still attack the totem, the totem is not going to redirect any damage if it happens to be linked to someone. The 60% HP I listed is exactly for that, that HP drops when the totem is attacked by an enemy, however, when attacked by an ally and if linked to someone, it redirects 100% of the damage without making the totem lose HP.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - June 03, 2014, 16:41:48.
Ambitious Crackapult * Member Since 2013-02-17
posté June 03, 2014, 17:50:04 | #6
Then best solution for voodoll, changing it to that wooden totem again, but it will have hp so enemy can destroy it.

-Blocks path
-Blocks los
-When ally attack it dont lose hp but target lose
-When enemy attack it just totem lose hp

Why we can solve everything while talking about something but developers cant QQ

EDIT: Just noticed you already suggested that xD

But i think %60 hp so much.


This post has been edited by Celay01 - June 03, 2014, 17:54:35.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté June 03, 2014, 18:55:13 | #7

Quote (Celay01 @ 03 June 2014 17:50) *
Then best solution for voodoll, changing it to that wooden totem again, but it will have hp so enemy can destroy it.

-Blocks path
-Blocks los
-When ally attack it dont lose hp but target lose
-When enemy attack it just totem lose hp

Why we can solve everything while talking about something but developers cant QQ

EDIT: Just noticed you already suggested that xD

But i think %60 hp so much.
We all came to this conclusion during last voodoll discussion.
We all know it should work this way.
We just need Ankama to read it.

However putting visual effect aside all they need to change is to make current voodoll with 0mp instead of 2 and making it not loose hp when ally attack it - that itself would make it acceptable. Making it have hp of Sadida isntead of target's would make it balanced for any type of combat, plus it would make it more of a doll like any other.

I also think that 60% is too much, considering it won't loose HP from allies attacks, just enemies. 40% is a fine number.


Ambitious Crackapult * Member Since 2013-02-17
posté June 03, 2014, 21:37:28 | #8
In my opinion totem looks better than voodoll.  


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2011-02-02
posté June 04, 2014, 14:47:09 | #9
About the HP of totem, I started with 40% and increased it to 60%, since 40% is not much, let's take some examples...


Sadi with 600 HP -> 240 hp vs 360 hp
Sadi with 1000 HP -> 400 hp totem vs 600 hp
Sadi with 1500 HP -> 600 hp totem vs 900 hp

In PvM monsters tend to ignore the totem despite of it having high HP or not, so there's not much of a deal here. In PvP players usually do a lot of damage, some classes can even 1 turn KO someone with their overpowered doubles. If I had a totem right now it would have around 1260 hp, which is a decent amount and it sometimes can still survive one turn. Maybe if we dropped it to 55 or 50% it could be fairer, but just 40% I think that it is too low for a summon that also plays the role or line of sight blocker.

With this totem out, Sadidas are going to have a new tool in fights. It will be perfect tool to block the line of sight that linear dependent classes and monsters have. Sacriers will have to run around it or kill it, since totem is stabilized. The Totem also is going to play a very important role to avoid those powerful linear attacks, it'll be very useful in black crow. I would even add an stabilization aura to totem, which stabilizes everyone that stands beside it, making it very nice in places like wabbit tunnels, where wabbit zombies love to teleport people to the other side of the map and leave them in dangerous situations.

I tried to add some sort of ''Tree'' without necessarily bringing the spell to the game, Trees in Dofus act this way and they are very useful to block line of sight. They're permanent blockades set by sadidas. Since we are probably not getting one, I tried to make it work with Totem.


PS: I also love the look of totem, I'd love to see it back xD


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - June 04, 2014, 14:48:48.
Ambitious Crackapult * Member Since 2013-02-17
posté June 04, 2014, 16:14:21 | #10
But people can use them as blocking all way like in very old days and %60 hp is so much, i have no los spells so i dont care but it can be so annoying at pvp for some classes and it is so op at pvm.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2011-02-02
posté June 04, 2014, 16:20:19 | #11
@Celay

The blocking wall trick to prevent an enemy from getting to you could be easily fixed if the totem had the same conditions to be summoned as a Beacon. Are beacons overpowered in PvM?

Most Cras like to play like glasscannons while they have handy tricks and strategy, I did some build on beta, a beacon air/fire cra with 7 MP. No one could reach me and my beacons were quite good at blocking line of sight, yet not overpowered.


The people that are affected by it usually have moves to deal with it, sacs got lightspeed, iops have jump, rogues got boombot and crossfire. You'll be forcing people to play differently and think more.

Maybe 60% is still too much, but what about 50%?


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté June 04, 2014, 21:40:17 | #12

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 04 June 2014 14:47) *
About the HP of totem, I started with 40% and increased it to 60%, since 40% is not much, let's take some examples...


Sadi with 600 HP -> 240 hp vs 360 hp
Sadi with 1000 HP -> 400 hp totem vs 600 hp
Sadi with 1500 HP -> 600 hp totem vs 900 hp

Its funny how people say that 40% is very low (in fact it IS low!!) yet Ankama made dolls with less then a half of this low value (17% on greedy doll? seriously? T_T).

I think that as long as voodoll doesnt loose hp when allies redirect dmg by using it, then its ok to have it with 40% OF SADIDA HP.


Ambitious Crackapult * Member Since 2013-02-17
posté June 04, 2014, 22:12:07 | #13

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 04 June 2014 16:20) *
@Celay

The blocking wall trick to prevent an enemy from getting to you could be easily fixed if the totem had the same conditions to be summoned as a Beacon. Are beacons overpowered in PvM?

Most Cras like to play like glasscannons while they have handy tricks and strategy, I did some build on beta, a beacon air/fire cra with 7 MP. No one could reach me and my beacons were quite good at blocking line of sight, yet not overpowered.


The people that are affected by it usually have moves to deal with it, sacs got lightspeed, iops have jump, rogues got boombot and crossfire. You'll be forcing people to play differently and think more.

Maybe 60% is still too much, but what about 50%?
I think you dont know what was problem with that, a cra cant do it really, and doing it cant help cra. Here:

You are immortal!
And you cant force a sacrier to hit something as %60 hp of you before reach you. Also you have gust spell, you can push him and make this again.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté June 04, 2014, 22:27:58 | #14

Quote (Celay01 @ 04 June 2014 22:12) *

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 04 June 2014 16:20) *
@Celay

The blocking wall trick to prevent an enemy from getting to you could be easily fixed if the totem had the same conditions to be summoned as a Beacon. Are beacons overpowered in PvM?

Most Cras like to play like glasscannons while they have handy tricks and strategy, I did some build on beta, a beacon air/fire cra with 7 MP. No one could reach me and my beacons were quite good at blocking line of sight, yet not overpowered.


The people that are affected by it usually have moves to deal with it, sacs got lightspeed, iops have jump, rogues got boombot and crossfire. You'll be forcing people to play differently and think more.

Maybe 60% is still too much, but what about 50%?
I think you dont know what was problem with that, a cra cant do it really, and doing it cant help cra. Here:

You are immortal!
And you cant force a sacrier to hit something as %60 hp of you before reach you. Also you have gust spell, you can push him and make this again.
This was problematic ONLY BECAUSE enemy couldn't destroy it, nor push it. Current voodoll as doll can be moved away. A sacrier can swap with it at any distance it want and get right next to trapped Sadida.


Ambitious Crackapult * Member Since 2013-02-17
posté June 04, 2014, 23:10:00 | #15
Maybe just making current voodoll "not losing any hp from ally attacks" can fix problem?


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté June 05, 2014, 00:54:32 | #16

Quote (Celay01 @ 04 June 2014 23:10) *
Maybe just making current voodoll "not losing any hp from ally attacks" can fix problem?
Exactly. And making it have 0 mp instead of 2 to not make it run away to map edge.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2011-02-02
posté June 05, 2014, 04:10:44 | #17
@Celay

I already had given this idea, that it should receive damage from enemies! I've been talking about that since the beginning! hahaha ^^

I think that 45-50% HP should be the best for a static summon that doesn't do anything beside block line of sight.

45 looks like a good number.


I hope they have something in mind since I never use voodoll right now, it's really not very useful in most situations, it's only good when I want to heal an ally with mudoll or when my hands are tied and all I can do is create a voodoll.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - June 05, 2014, 04:12:18.