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Sadida Revamp
Lead Community Manager * Member Since 2012-02-28
posté December 14, 2012, 16:49:24 | #1
Sadida Revamp Hi there,

Here's the Game Design proposition by Grou concerning the Sadida revamp.

UPDATE April 8, 2013: Click here

Feel free to comment!


This post has been edited by [Troyle] - April 08, 2013, 16:03:56.
Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-11-07
posté December 14, 2012, 17:05:03 | #2
Well, I haven't studied every deail yet, but I must say I like the idea of more dolls... And more effective dolls.


This post has been edited by GrimackReapum - December 14, 2012, 17:05:30.
Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2010-06-20
posté December 14, 2012, 17:30:57 | #3
Can we get pics of the new dolls?


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté December 14, 2012, 17:37:01 | #4
So they want to give dolls the charges after all

Interesting changes, though I don't like some of them:

Vaporize Sounds nice but whats the point of adding +1AP? Almost all dolls have 3AP and need 3AP to attack, so +1AP doesn't do anything.

Sadida's Tear Range is only 3 (and we cant boost it!) and in a line? 5AP and heals only 20HP at max lvl?! AND we have to summon Voodoll before we can heal! Sounds terrible. I know that water Sadi is suppose to be a secondary healer, but Enis weakest healing spell is about that strong, and it cost 2AP with better range and she don't have to waste a turn to summon Voodoll. Or maybe I don't understand something about this spell?

Mudoll If we cast it on Voodoll it heals who? Us or a doll?

Rust Can only be cast in a line too? With the range starting from 2? And only 2 cells? What a nerf! Before it had better range, not in the line and could attack 4 cells at once! And it wasn't even that strong!

Drain Sounds ok.

I don't like the changes for water. I like the new air and earth though. Support spells also seems nice, and more dolls sounds AMAZING :O


This post has been edited by Rokugatsu - December 14, 2012, 19:20:56.
Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-05-08
posté December 14, 2012, 18:41:04 | #5
I like the look of these changes, and the fact that dolls are becoming more useful. Are sewing points like charges? I didn't really understand that bit, but overall, I like the air changes and will give air sadidas more usefulness


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2011-05-30
posté December 14, 2012, 22:28:54 | #6
overload information and play style to change...BOOM! @_@


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté December 14, 2012, 23:01:31 | #7
Only thing that not very excited is Savoir-Faire but you can't have everything you want. So bring it on.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 14, 2012, 23:46:01 | #8
Here i come:

Vaporize
I like the idea to make this spell give AP to doll's. However we should simply give our own AP to doll just like Osamodas can give it's own MP to it's summons. In other words if we use 2AP on doll then the doll should gain 2AP. Else it will be pointless to use Vaporize over air spells. Just look at Greeding spell: 3AP cost. We will need to waste 6AP just to make doll use his spell second time. 1AP to doll is useless. Just look at doll spells: they are all for 3AP! You should also increase daamge of this spell so that we can use it for reliable damage when we have just 2 AP left. Just look at earth spells: why
Solution: Make it give 3AP or else it will be useless.

Additional note: it should be possible to add AP to dolls that are nettled. Nettled is random effect that we want to have to increase doll's effectiveness. However if we will plan to add AP to dolls and Nettle will triger in enemy turn then we won't be able to do so - we will need to kill the doll and place new one and that is not a solution as it's also wasting our own ap for nothing (the awkward moment when you want to give ap to doll but to do so you need to remove it and place new one to make it have more ap....). Controlled state should not apply to Nettled dolls but +AP should be added aside from Controlled effect. Or make it so that when we use Vaporize on Nettled doll, the doll will loose Nettled state and will be Controlled - this would help too.

Sadida's Tear
I think i don't understand something. Why 5AP spell that deal 63 dmg will heal for 20 HP only? Or does it heal ally (linked to voodoll) while we cast sadida's tear to damage enemy? That's interesting... but still too weak to make it worth summoning voodoll on an ally. Note enemy will use allied-voodool to damage our ally so if we are going to use voodoll on ally, the heal should be more efficient (considering it comes with the cons to being damaged by an aoe for double dmg). But if it works that way i understand it will also deal damage to enemy linked to voodoll even if we cast spell on someone else? So does it mean Sadida's Tear will deal 83 dmg to 1 target if we use it on voodoll on enemy linked to voodoll?
I belive this is how it will work so in other words Sadida's Tear will work as Fertilizer works now and in addition it will heal ally a bit while we damage enemy? As for damage to enemy it's fine. However if it comes to heal i think that if we use Sadida's Tear on Voodoll linked to ally then ally should be healed by 63+20 HP and if we damage enemy for 63 then ally will be healed for 20. If it will work this way then it will be worth using on ally. Otherwise it will be bad.
Solution:
Situation 1: Enemy is linked to Voodoll
A: Sadida's Tear used on Voodoll = 5/63 dmg + 1/20 dmg to target of Voodoll (6/83 dmg total)
B: Sadida's Tear is used on different target = 5/63 dmg to different target and 1/20 dmg to target of Voodoll
Situation 2: Ally is linked to Voodoll
A: Sadida's Tear is used on Voodoll = heal 5/63 HP + heal 1/20 HP to target of Voodoll
B: Sadida's Tear is used on different target = 5/63 dmg to different target and heal 1/20 HP to target of Voodoll

Please Troyle (or any Dev) can you confirm it will work this way? If it will then i really like this change.

ALSO: You should change range to 1-5 in line (range boost: no) because 1-3 with no boost in range is bad. Most of the time enemy will be out of range and it will be too difficult to target Voodoll even with no LoS.
I don't understand why you let Gust hit enemies 4 cell away in cross (so we can hit 5 cell away) and Manifold Bramble with aoe being able to hit enemies 7 cells away and you are making all water spells with low range. At least make this one, even in only in line, with 1-5 Range.

Mudoll
Finally good heal to target of the spell (regardless of it being ally or enemy). Can be strong with Zombification cast on enemy or used on Voodoll linked to ally in case we cannot use Sadida's Tear due to range limiations. I like that it heal for more then it damages but it can be used as damage for leveling purposes.

Question: if we cast it on Doll, will the doll be healed? - please confirm this
Question 2: The mudoll have 0+ range, so it means we can cast it on self. Does it mean we will damage self? Because i see no point for that. OR does it mean Mudoll will be our only self heal water spell (we need at least that 1 water spell to heal self, so please tell me we can heal self with it)!! - please confirm this
If it will be used as direct heal to dolls as well as heal to allies linked to voodoll then i really like this change.

Solution: Make it heal targeted dolls and when used on self make it heal Sadida. Without this the water branch will be not worth picking comparing to air and earth.


Rust

The worst nerf ever. I hate this change. It really sucks, sorry. If this change will apply to Rust then it will be a "never to be used" spell. Well ok maybe i overreacted here but the only use of this spell would be to summon Voodoll on enemy and use Rust for double dmg. But it won't be used to increase doll's dmg. How you want it to do? It require los and you can't even cast in diagonally. Notto mention that range in line with 2+ range make it a useless spell when you are in enemy lock zone - that sucks. And dolls never move in line 1 after another - they are always running to enemy side wich means it will be impossible to use this spell to increase damage of more then 1 doll. And increasing damage of 1 doll while damaging enemy will be nearly impossible after first turn of summoning doll. It's really ridiculous. No one will use this spell to buff doll for dmg - all will use it only to hit Voodoll and enemy instead, wich shouldn't be the main use of this spell. not to mention that when we increase doll's dmg by 100% then instead of doing 60 dmg it will do 80 - so what's the point? Or will it increase final dmg of doll? Because if it's +100% elemental dmg then it's going to be useless with such limitation to range and area of effect. Also why we have another 5AP spell in water branch that will just do more dmg to enemy linked to totem but when enemy is in line with totem....

Solution: If you really want to make players use this spell to increase doll's dmg then make it possible to use it on dolls that are 2 cell away from eachother - when they are in enemy lock zone. It should affect 3 cells not 2, range might still be in line BUT area of effect should be NOT in line - instead it should work on 3 cells with no LoS required: on enemy side and behind enemy (in lock zone). In other words if we want to use this spell to increase doll's dmg we should be able to do so but without hurting enemy that is in doll's close combat zone. It will be more difficult to cast this spell on Voodoll and enemy but it's good considering double dmg that it would do (enemy will need to be diagonally with Voodoll and summoning Voodoll is always in line with enemy so we will need to move after casting Voodoll or will need to trick enemy to move where we want it to move - for example with K'mir). That would be good and for sure better for doll support.

This is how it should be to make this spell good:
RUST
Cost: 4AP 1MP
RANGE: 1-4
Area: 3 cells in "A" shape (reversed cone with empty middle cell)
You can see it on the picture below:
Area = red cells
Range = blue cells
S = Sadida

LOS: NO (it's important!)
Range boost: Yes
Conditions: Cast in line
Dmg: 4/54
If cast on Doll: +10/100% Dmg

With this change we will most of the time have to choose either to buff doll's for dmg or to inflict dmg to enemy. It will be harder to target enemy and Voodoll (unlike with Multiple Bramble) but it will be even worth the risk to dodge to use it if you apply this changes. Please apply this changes i want water sadida to be viable.

Drain
It's better this way then what we have now BUT it's now weak considering the cost. note we can't heal self with it so it's just pure support while damaging spell. Also we are limited to 2+ range and we will usually need to move to enemy side that our ally is tanking in front, wich means we will need lots of MP before we will be able to heal someone with it. You have to remove MP cost from the Drain. Also this range "in line" is not necessary and will make too many spells in water branch able to be cast in line only wich is bad too.
Solution: Make it cost 4AP (no MP) and make it possible to cast in in all directions. Make enemies take 4/46 dmg and heal for 4/46 HP.

Woodland Stench

Good!

Poisoned Wind
Seems good... would need to test it first as damage seems low but if it will not dissapear if we will apply it in the next turn then it's fine. If it will be gone at start of sadida turn then it's really bad because we will never reach lvl 100 effect (would need 16 AP!) SO... if this effect will dissapear only if we won't apply it again - then it's fine i guess.

Sudden Chill
The effect should remove 30% ALL resist to make it possible for 8AP build to hit the maximum dmg reduction. It will be still capped at 60%. Leveling this spell with just -20% res will be a pain and without other 2 sadidas in team we will barerly notice any changes. I do hope the reduction in resist will be fixed for all levels so that we won't need to hit 100lvl spell to see this effect doing something.
Solution: Make it remove 30% ALL resist.

K'mir
It's good but please consider some glitch that happens when we are moving with target and that target is moving next to our ally and is getting locked by it, making it stop following our steps, then when the target have it's turn it moves away and suddenly our Sadida teleports from distance to it. To avoid such glitch tohappen you should make it impossible for target of th eK'mir to be locked in Sadida turn. Or does "Stabilization" means that you cannot be locked?
- please confirm this.

ALSO: It should be possible to use K'mir spell on Stabilized target OR on target with K'mir TO inflict damage BUT without applying k'mir's effect!

Gust
The limitation to 2use/turn is not needed. You wont find any 15 AP builds around and even if this would happen with xelor's help: why you limit this spell? It pushes away so it is impossible to repeatedly using this spell on more then 1 target (at least in normal circumstances). Also seeing how low in damage it is and with range limited so greatly i think it should at least push by 2 cells. It will be harder to repeatedly using this spell this way but it will also support better. Just look at what distances sacrier can push, swap and pull. Give something good to sadida too! And actually why it's so weak? Just look at Multiple Bramble - it's stronger and deal normal damage. Do remember that Voodoll have limited HP and it's own cost so you can increase damage of Gust to 50.

Solution: Make it push by 2 cells. Increase damage to 5/50.

Bramble
Great idea with this Bramble Shell! This spell is now Awsome! However we will never reach lvl 100 bramble shell without other sadida's (will need at least 3 in team...) so that should be changed.
Solution: I think that it should give 10 levels of Bramble shell per 1 AP used (in all earth spells that give bramble shell). SO Bramble should give 40 levels of Bramble shell. Please note that it means that sadida won't use these AP for damage!

Fertilizer
I like the idea of making it possible to use Bramble Shell on self! It's really nice. Something like Coagulation though you are not inflicting damage while making this shell on self. It seems earth branch will be the nicest one and the way to go (again). Well air seems nice too. About water branch... if there will be no self healing spell then water will be lame. We will all go for earth/air with heal from Tree. So please add some self healing spell to water spells (can be Mudoll).
Solution: As for Fertilizer again here you should add 50 lvls of bramble shell.

Wild Grass
Does it ALWAYS remove MP, regardless of Hypermovement? - please confirm this

ALSO: Should give 30 levels of Bramble Shell. It would be also nice if Wild Grass could give MP to doll's.

Tremor
I like it!

Manifold Bramble
Well now we won't hurt self with it anymore, so that's good. Increased range means we will hit target's 7 cells away... WOW thats nice. I like this change. It reminds me of foggernaut's Steampalm. And in same time makes me wonder why you don't increase damage of Drain and Gust...

Active 1: Doll
There is no difference in spell between levels 0 ~ 2 wich means we are wasting our spell points for nothing! You have to change it. I also don't like the cost in WP. Just tell me how Sadida is supposed to fight in dungeons: Nun Dungeon and Vampyro Dungeon as example. In nun dungeon we are hurt when we use WP so Sadida will die fast when it will try to summon few dolls. And look at Feca: you plan to remove WP cost of Glyph of Armor - do the same for Doll. The same way Glyph or Armor is limited with Mechanics, Dolls are limited with Leadership. So remove this WP cost already, it's not needed here. It's enough that we need to summon voodoll on 1 target few times and that cost WP( it will have part of it's hp, not all). Plus Tree cost WP and we don't need more spells with WP cost. In fact you should make Doll cost 1AP when maxed because summoning dolls cost too much AP (minimum 4 AP needed! And if it comes to AP, Osamodas can summon more powerful creature for just 3AP and at 1-5 range!).

It's also recomended to make Doll with NO LOS at level 9 so we can summon doll's from behind our allies with "NO LOS" elemental spells (like Sadida's Tear for example).
Solution:
Lvl0: 6AP 1WP; 1 RANGE
Lvl1: 5AP 1WP; 1 RANGE
Lvl2: 5AP 1WP; 1-2 RANGE
Lvl3: 4AP 1WP; 1-2 RANGE
Lvl4: 4AP 1WP; 1-3 RANGE
Lvl5: 3AP 1WP; 1-3 RANGE
Lvl6: 3AP 1WP; 1-4 RANGE
Lvl7: 2AP 1WP; 1-4 RANGE
Lvl8: 1AP 1WP; 1-4 RANGE
Lvl9: 1AP; 1-4 RANGE; LOS: No (WP cost removed)

Active 2: Dolly Sacrifice
It's nice but it should still heal Sadida. If you will make dolls with charges Sadida might heal by HP multiplied by the number of charges left on Doll. If you will keep dolls with HP you may make Sadida heal for the remaining % HP of doll (instead of from doll's max hp).
Solution: Add some heal to Sadida.

Active 3: Voodoll
"Damage not dealt by the Sadida reduced by 50%" - i like this part.
As for the HP i feel it's too low. It will make voodoll useless at low levels and we will start using it only at level 40 and only if we will max Savoir-Faire.
Solution: Make it give Voodoll 30% of target's HP. We should not use whole AP just to kill 1 target.

Active 4: Tree
Wait now... i don't get it. What that 7xMP means? Takes elemental dmg into account.... First i thought it's 7x elemental dmg (but that would be ridiculously high)... so i guess it's 7HP x MP used. But that would be too low... In my opinion, since it cost WP and all of our MP, it should give 20xMP (20 HP x MP) with main element used (water, air or earth). Else it won't help much.
Solution: 20xMP

Active 5: Sic'Em More
Good... (well almost)! In fact it's a lot better then using Vaporize (if Vaporize will give 1 useless AP, so please make Vaporize give 3AP). Actually you should make it possible to use Vaporize and Sic'Em More on 1 doll (buff up the doll). There should be a synergy.

Passive 1: Explodoll

The idea is interesting, however you should make different effects on dolls. Air doll usually runs away so if enemy will get pushed back it will be closer to Sadida - that's exactly oposite to what we want. It might get some uses but really limited. As for Water dolls if enemy will kill them all and even get -3 Range, it won't need to attack sadida, it will just move to it so reducing -1 Range (for 1 turn) is pointless here. I think it was better to just make enemy receive dmg from Explodoll and just make it so that allies will get healed instead of damaged - it will be good supporting role and allies will be allowed to kill doll's if they will feel like they need heal. That would be heal "from doll's to allies". As for these effects you have suggested they are nice but they should be placed on each doll the same way Madoll had -AP explosion aura some time ago. We should not level any passive to make our dolls get these effects. These effects should be on dolls all the time, just like osamodas's summons effects are there all the time.

SO i really dislike the idea to make us have passive that add something that should be implemented as default.
I also dislike the idea to make us have passive that only increase chance of getting effect to dolls. I disliked it on Still Life and i dislike it now. We simply HAVE to max this or we will just play with luck - that BAD. We are not ecaflips to base on luck. And we should be able to choose how many levels we want in passive and how many in active and our "build" should be viable. Effects on dolls should be added to the game and we should have them even with Sadida Lvl 1. No one will level this passive if it will just give some effects that are not even changing much in battle. Explodoll with changes you suggest will become USELESS PASSIVE.

Revise! Effects on dolls are good idea BUT we should NOT level any passive to have them!

Solution:
Explodoll should give explosion and explosion is damage. It's annoying to hurt allies so simply make dolls give some of their life to allies nearby if they explode (heal from doll).
In short: Make enemies take dmg from Explodoll and make allies get HP heal from Explodoll. Note: It works only in close-combat squere aoe, where the doll die.

Passive 2: Doll Link
I hate this change. Hate. It makes Doll Link work only if we MANAGED to link VOODOLL to enemy. Once we are out of WP this passive has no uses. It's stupid. There should be some use of it with Dolls, not with Voodoll. Also increasing % by 0.5 is a joke - we won't notice this change. We will have to max this spell and even then we will have to be high lvl player to even notice this ability. And still this makes it viable only for those who play with Voodoll and makes it useless for those who doesn't. In other words we will need to level Voodoll, Savoir-Faire AND Doll Link to make Doll Link usefull itself. So first we need 2 maxed support spells to just start leveling this. Seriously thats HORRIBLE.

Solution: Leave Doll Link as it is or if you change doll's HP to charges you may make Sadida receive 20% less dmg per doll (the next doll reduce dmg after previous dmg reduction, taking result as base, just like now) and doll's will loose 1 charge per attack dealt to Sadida.

Example: If Sadida is damaged by spell that would deal 500 dmg:
With 1 doll on the field Sadida will receive 400 dmg and Doll will receive 100 dmg (or -1 charge)
With 2 dolls, Sadida will receive 320 dmg, first Doll will receive 100 dmg, second Doll will receive 80 dmg (or both dolls will loose -1 charge).
With 3 dolls, Sadida will receive 256 dmg, first Doll 100 dmg, second Doll 80 dmg and third Doll 64 dmg (or each doll will loose -1 charge).
And so on.
Note if aoe will hurt dolls and Sadida, dolls will receive redirected dmg from Sadida and dmg of aoe itself (or -2 charge each).

So this passive is fair the way it is now - it kills dolls faster but for a while Sadida can support allies by tanking some dmg with reduced dmg received in similar matter to Sacrier or Feca, but only if it will manage to keep the dolls on the field (wich usually means Sadida wont attack itself but just waste turns on summoning and re-summoning, but it helps in team play when there is need of alternative tank).

In short: DON'T revamp Doll Link!

Passive 3: Savoir-Faire
The idea to increase Voodoll's HP is nice and that part i like. I might accept +2 Leadership if there will be more items with +Leadership added to the middle and high level (or if you simply add Leadrship here and there to already existing items). For unknown reason low level weapons with leadership add fire dmg, while Sadida have no fire spells, so it means these are weapons for Osamodas, but why there are no alternative weapons with water dmg then? Same goes for expample for fire larva set - it's the only one for summoners, and sadida is not using fire spell!
So yes you should add more items with leadership and summon dmg, some that sadida may use (no not fire) and then this Passive with +2 Leadership will be propably fine.
However as for giving WP to dolls, i'd rather make Dolls not cost WP, then making us need to max some additional support spell just to get it. That's not good - we are forced to max this, and that's also NOT good.
Solution: Make Doll not cost WP. As for Savoir-Faire, with it you may add more HP to Doll's (so not only to Voodoll) or add more charges to them, instead of making us get back WP (yes we need to get back WP IF Doll cost WP, but its better to remove WP cost from Doll). Note that using Tree or Voodoll will still make us loose WP, but just like Pandawa doesnt need to use Bamboozle, Sadida doesn't need to use Tree or Voodoll. And just like Pandawa need it's barrel, sadida need it's dolls. Making something that we have to use with WP cost is cruel.

Passive 4: Green Guard

Seems fine

Passive 5: uknown name (Still Life)
The changes you are suggesting are nice for... Voodoll using Sadida only. I bet you wanted to give sadida some way to fight with no dolls. This is awkard... and i don't know what to say about it. For sure it will help in fast grinding, but place just 1 doll and you loose all dmg... very situational. For sure it's better then Still life that we have now... i guess it's good. It give us a choice to either summon dolls or not - so that's good. But it doesn't change the fact that players who want to be summoner sadida should not use WP for summoning their dolls, just like feca should not use WP to place glyph or armor. So... this passive is nice... for team play or solo grind on something weak. I must say i like it.


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2011-05-12
posté December 15, 2012, 01:58:21 | #9
Some changes are realliy nice, but the overall fell like we need better documentation.

vaporize: we can control a doll with 1 ap, but can we also summon a doll with 1 ap? The bonus is for casting on doll or also for casting on seeds?

sadida's tear: the side effect on the voodoll is influenced by water mastery? Also, for the only (now) good damage spell in the sadi deck the range is really prohibitive. Boost for the tears!

mudoll: a small, cutie healing spell. Not really useful but can be handy.

rust: ç_ç
Cast in line, range 2-4, an aoe of only two square. Isn't this a bit too much for an increase of 10 damage? We used rust for summon 2 doll and doing some damage, maybe some more damage with totem, if we were "great tactician". Aww ç_ç

drain: it's a nice change, but is a little bit too much situational. Having just a range of 1-4 instead of 2-4 would be great (and we could also heal ourselves *_*). With just 41 damage and 41 soin to max 3 diferent chara i think this spell is a bit too castigate.
Also, the heal is applied even when summoning a seed or just when doing damage?
And the 41 heal is redistributed just like now or every chara adiacent to the target will be healed of 41? I think the second, cause redistribuiting 41 would be too small.

gust: aww, doesn't hit anymore the sadi ç_ç

tetatoxine and poison: the damage will take in account the sadi mastery?

voodoll: the overall change are nice, but it's sad that the Best Party Support Spell will transform in something only the sadi will use. It's great when class interact, but on wakfu we cant interact well. This totem will be just useless in tactics.

sic em more: what level of neetled will give now sic em more? 10 as now? I hope so.

doll link: if the totem is linked to an ally, will we damage them as well?

savoir faire: no more leadership ç_ç But great! Infinite WP!
Will we gain back WP even from voodoll or just from dolls? We have to summon 3 totem to deal with just an enemy, you know.

still life (or wathever): a bonus of 100 damage in 4 turns? Somewhat nice.

charge on dolls instead of hp: those are charges, right? Will the doll lose charge at the beginning of avery turn and once per attack? Or they will lose charge just with attack?

inflatable: isn't a bit too much expensive to summon a inflatable?

sacrificak: hey, you do not intend do leave this little cutie kamikaze alone, you dont?


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2011-02-27
posté December 15, 2012, 03:31:14 | #10
Just one thing Kikui (it's Nid here, I'm lazy to change accs).


Bramble Shell is increased by earth mastery, which means that a level 38 Bramble Shield with 400% damage can reduct up to 190 damage, a level 100 shield means 500, and that's kind of overpowered if you can achieve that alone.


This post has been edited by Arthropoda - December 15, 2012, 03:33:46.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 15, 2012, 04:45:13 | #11

Quote (Arthropoda @ 15 December 2012 03:31) *
Just one thing Kikui (it's Nid here, I'm lazy to change accs).


Bramble Shell is increased by earth mastery, which means that a level 38 Bramble Shield with 400% damage can reduct up to 190 damage, a level 100 shield means 500, and that's kind of overpowered if you can achieve that alone.
Well look at this that way: if i will waste 10 ap to get level 100 shield i will not attack for 10 ap, but i bet enemy with 10ap will deal more then 500 dmg so will break the shield and inflict dmg, making me die slowly. It's not overpowered at all. And even if they won't break the shield then it's like if i were under transcendance and sleepy state in same time (they didn't hurt me but i didn't hurt them either). However i might be wrong.

Some maths:
If 10 AP deal 100 dmg
then 1 AP deal 10 dmg

SO if spells deal 11, 12 or 13 (and more?) dmg per AP (and 10-15 per MP) then they will (with 400% damage) break the shield casted by sadida with 400% mastery earth.

On the other hand it seems this Bramble shell will be better then Tree...

SO what if they should give 5lvls of Bramble shell per level.

Wich makes:
Bramble: +20 lvls of bramble shell
Fertilizer: +25 lvls of bramble shell
Wild Grass: +15 lvls of bramble shell

But then i guess it will be hardly noticable so i still think they should give more, considering that we waste all our AP to protect someone so instead of 2 dmg dealers you have 1 dmg dealer and 1 protector. Well 10 per level might be too much but 5 per level is too low.

So in my opinion it should be 7 lvls per AP:

Bramble +28 lvls of Bramble shell
Fertilizer +35 lvls of Bramble shell
Wild Grass +21 lvls of Bramble shell

Yes, that's how they should add these levels of bramble shell.


..........

by the way i think that Tree should give immunity for turn not for 1 attack, but instead it should cost 2 WP (and all remaining MP) at max level. Obviously with Doll that have no WP cost.

And Jurambalco noticed nicely that cost of summoning Inflatable is really high, even though the "charges" are the same as from greedy summoned by Vaporize. Wich makes me feel that doll seed should have 0 AP cost at max level (just like Feca's Glyph of Armor from reamp suggestion), wich would make cost of doll equal to the cost of spell.

Also good question made by Jurambalco: will doll link dmg ally linked to voodoll? This is really not good. And yes if we link voodoll to ally then this "new" doll link you are suggesting will be totally useless. Why leveling useles support spell?

So once again: do not revamp doll link! It's the only support spell that should be not revamped.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - December 15, 2012, 05:17:13.
Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-07
posté December 15, 2012, 08:25:24 | #12
What about sacrificial dolls?
My entire build is centered around them and there is no information on them.

It seems like a lot of these changes wont scale well at high levels, especially the heals.

Also this is really nasty on low level Sadidas because of the massive cost increase low level on making seeds and difficulty to get enough leadership to have more than one doll.

it also makes voodolls completely useless low level.

Overall, this seems like another massive nerf to the support abilities, but quite good for the spells except for the large costs of air and earth( no movement after quake).
Earth seems like its essential now so it may be worth the cost, but now its the obvious choice over water air or fire (sacrificial dolls remember).

Keep in mind, at the moment voodoll is the only thing that can bridge the gap between Saddidas and most other classes in terms of damage output at the moment.
If it takes a whole turn to get it out and it can run out of health 20 to 4 times before the battles over, its no longer useful.

Edit: Maddoll is still useless, the damage on lethargic may be useful depending on scaling.

Also, because voodoll might be a bit too good at the moment, how about making so it reduces in damage transfer depending on the range from the target or something that will make it more interesting to fight against, perhaps it requires the Saddida to do somthing while it still works, like not move, or its only working when its adjacent to the Saddida.


This post has been edited by HakazabaJub - December 15, 2012, 08:48:53.
Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2011-03-29
posté December 15, 2012, 08:27:10 | #13
ok by all that
but how many dolls can sadida be summoned???

2 max with the passive ability
3 max with the dragolyr
4 max if we use a weapon +1 command
do voodoll move on the map???
can we cast it 1 per time??

cast rust in line its a nerf for water sadida
earth sadida got shell bramble = feca style??
wind sadida got damage reduction but the sub skill got more power

next generetion sadida can play trielementsand make less dmg for give max support on the group
but in soloing or pvp can't deal more dmg


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2010-06-20
posté December 15, 2012, 14:54:31 | #14
About tremor..
If I get 8 ap and 6 mp and summon 4 blocks
I will deal 15*4 + 15*4 +49 +49(bramble) = 120 +98 = 218 raw damage!! Isnt this a bit OP?

Will the dolls be the same that were posted in September 26?
"Greedy: Uses the Sadida’s masteries
Inflatable: Uses the Sadida’s masteries, low movement, healer
Madoll: Uses the Sadida’s masteries, removes MP
Lethargic: Uses the Sadida’s masteries, removes AP
Block: Uses the Sadida’s masteries, low movement, pulls
Mimik: Uses a part of the Sadida’s masteries. Keeps the last spell cast on it and uses it during its turn." - Troyle

Water tree:
tear: why the low heal?
Also noticed that inflatable will only be summoned by linear spells

Earth tree:
Perfect

Air tree:
Seems nice


Also if you're giving bonus 100% damage to random classes won't Iops feel a bit dull? Where is the uniqueness of every class?

Don't get me wrong, I like this changes and you did a good job overall to make each elemental tree interesting but the only thing that makes Iops unique is the high base damage spells and high damage from "power" which you almost copied to the Sadidas. Do you have some alterations to Iops game-play in mind Troyle?


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2011-05-12
posté December 15, 2012, 17:33:05 | #15
Another question.

How will the healing bonus of equipements interact with the mastery of the inflatable and the totem's healing attacks?


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 16, 2012, 04:51:16 | #16
After some thoughts i think that Vaporize should give not 1 and not 3 AP but 2 Ap.

Just look at these:

Vaporize = 2 ap
Dolls spell = 3 ap


If Vaporize give 1 AP:

1 vaporize = doll with 4 AP (doll attack once)
2 vaporize = doll with 5 AP (doll attack once)
3 vaporize = doll with 6 AP (doll attack twice)

Summary: 6AP of Sadida is needed to make doll attack for 3AP (thats bad)


If Vaporize give 2 AP:

1 Vaporize = doll with 5 AP (doll attack once)
2 Vaporize = doll with 7 AP (doll attack twice)
3 Vaporize = doll with 9 AP (doll attack three times)

Summary: Using 1 Vaporize will only Control doll but usingit again will allow doll to use it's attack 2nd time. If we use 6AP, the doll will get 6AP too. (thats perfect)


So please change Vaporize to give 2AP instead of 1.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté December 16, 2012, 10:47:29 | #17
Oh, so we can use Vaporize a few times and give the dolls a few APs, that make sense. But you're right, it should be 2AP. Wasting 6AP to give a doll just one more attack is pointless...


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2010-06-20
posté December 16, 2012, 12:30:59 | #18
Quote
Quote
Vaporize = 2 ap Dolls spell = 3 ap
Is it confirmed that the dolls stats and spells will remain the same?

Nevermind, just check'd the pdf. Was that last page about doll there from the beginning? :p


This post has been edited by gregobb - December 16, 2012, 12:33:03.
Short Strich * Member Since 2012-01-09
posté December 16, 2012, 12:40:30 | #19
Hmm, I was going to write a long complaint/critical feedback about each spell but after taking a longer and deeper look at the skill mix and synergy it looks like a lot more rounded than it first seems.

I take it that sewing points = 1 hit per point, which is a very good idea, scale-able and does not have issues between bosses and weak enemies, actually having bigger and less frequent hits is more preferable in this setup.

I don't really like the short range of the water spells but I guess the Blocks ability to pull targets, and still being able to mostly control your pets is good, plus the fact that you now have mimic that does spell damage as well as greedy for melee damage.

I also like the obvious split between totem users and doll users, like the Osa we can now choose to be/play different. Totem users again are more group focused whilst doll users are more for small groups, leveling solo etc.

It would be nice to have less restricted spell bonuses, but we will see how powerful the Sadida is to come.

Troyle, can you let us know when are these changes happening? or at least approximately going to be implemented?

Also which setup produces the most healing? Totem users or inflatable users? It looks like voodolls will heal the friendly unit every turn which is cool.


This post has been edited by archedruid - December 16, 2012, 12:45:38.
Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2011-05-12
posté December 16, 2012, 15:45:26 | #20

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 16 December 2012 04:51) *
After some thoughts i think that Vaporize should give not 1 and not 3 AP but 2 Ap.

Just look at these:

Vaporize = 2 ap
Dolls spell = 3 ap


If Vaporize give 1 AP:

1 vaporize = doll with 4 AP (doll attack once)
2 vaporize = doll with 5 AP (doll attack once)
3 vaporize = doll with 6 AP (doll attack twice)

Summary: 6AP of Sadida is needed to make doll attack for 3AP (thats bad)


If Vaporize give 2 AP:

1 Vaporize = doll with 5 AP (doll attack once)
2 Vaporize = doll with 7 AP (doll attack twice)
3 Vaporize = doll with 9 AP (doll attack three times)

Summary: Using 1 Vaporize will only Control doll but usingit again will allow doll to use it's attack 2nd time. If we use 6AP, the doll will get 6AP too. (thats perfect)


So please change Vaporize to give 2AP instead of 1.


Ehm... kiku...

I think the +1AP is for the sadida, not for the doll. I read some of the discussion on the french server, and that's what it seems. Thats why i asked to clarify if the bonus is applied even by casting on seed, cause this would mean that we can summon a greedy with just 3 AP and neetling them with sic em more to give some bonus damage for 8AP per turn.
(and i dont know wat to do with the 2 other AP from my build XD Get 11 ap and cast a mudoll?


This post has been edited by Jurambalco - December 16, 2012, 15:46:19.