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Ecaflip Revamp
Community Manager * Member Since 2012-02-28
posté April 08, 2013, 16:04:55 | #1
Ecaflip Revamp hi there,
Here's the Game Design by Grou concerning the Ecaflip revamp.

Click here

Feel free to comment!


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2013-03-06
posté April 08, 2013, 16:18:36 | #2
Yay! Hunter is back!


Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2011-01-24
posté April 08, 2013, 17:01:46 | #3
I just want to say that you guys did a great job with this one. I have always liked water ecaflips but they seemed a little underwhelming.

I was also disappointed when you got rid of the air tree of ecaflips.

With this revamp you have given me everything I enjoyed about playing ecaflips while i can still fulfill playing support as that is the role I enjoy most in games.

Seriously out of the park with this one!

Between this revamp and the new content coming up for my main I think I need to start leveling my new ecaflip right now and have him ready!!


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté April 08, 2013, 17:13:52 | #4
I like the changes! Finally an improved water branch.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2008-06-02
posté April 08, 2013, 17:19:13 | #5
Well, a lot of things to comment but, after we test it. Some I didn't like (decreased range, increased cost, mainly because most of spells now cost MP) but other were pretty awesome!!

Thanks for the effort Ankama, I hope this goes better than expected and finally ppl starting inviting Water Ecaflips to high-lvl groups!  


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-04-03
posté April 08, 2013, 18:35:00 | #6
I'm pretty surprised with this revamp. Not bad at all. Water branch seems to be better now.
Decreased range is a very sad thing, as well as no more stuns. But these things won't hurt too much, i guess.
Still can't give any feedback on changed actives/passives, need to test it first.


This post has been edited by Seguchi-sama - April 08, 2013, 18:35:31.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté April 08, 2013, 18:46:49 | #7

Quote (ZeraKoN @ 08 April 2013 17:19) *
Well, a lot of things to comment but, after we test it. Some I didn't like (decreased range, increased cost, mainly because most of spells now cost MP) but other were pretty awesome!!

Thanks for the effort Ankama, I hope this goes better than expected and finally ppl starting inviting Water Ecaflips to high-lvl groups!

I don't expect to see Water Ecaflips wanted after this revamp. Weak dmg, weak heals, only helping allies within close range of a monster.

9AP & 3MP for 78 dmg and 78 heals. I'd prefer a single powerful heal or AoE that didn't rely on a target nearby. Most occasions i want to deal dmg OR heal in a party situation. There will be many times when those heals go to waste

I do like the idea of Ecaflip's leaping around monsters, sounds fun.


This post has been edited by Gynrei - April 08, 2013, 18:50:07.
Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2008-06-02
posté April 08, 2013, 19:17:44 | #8

Quote (Gynrei @ 08 April 2013 18:46) *

Quote (ZeraKoN @ 08 April 2013 17:19) *
Well, a lot of things to comment but, after we test it. Some I didn't like (decreased range, increased cost, mainly because most of spells now cost MP) but other were pretty awesome!!

Thanks for the effort Ankama, I hope this goes better than expected and finally ppl starting inviting Water Ecaflips to high-lvl groups!

I don't expect to see Water Ecaflips wanted after this revamp. Weak dmg, weak heals, only helping allies within close range of a monster.

9AP & 3MP for 78 dmg and 78 heals. I'd prefer a single powerful heal or AoE that didn't rely on a target nearby. Most occasions i want to deal dmg OR heal in a party situation. There will be many times when those heals go to waste

I do like the idea of Ecaflip's leaping around monsters, sounds fun.
I don't see it either, but, hope die as last. As you, I also saw the high cost of the spells (plus MP =/), low range and low values of healing/damage but, they are capable of dealing damage and heal themself. Well, they were like this before.

I'm not saying is a 100% good update but is better than I though (not from what I expected after 1 year but, from the old revamp ideas)... Also, I don't see how they could be fit against high level monsters (UBs and 100+ monsters) with these new spells.

Ofc, if the community would revamp them, they would totally make it even better and I don't think it would screw up things. But that's what Ankama got for the moment, I'm happy they didn't nerfed it so much.

Yeah, healing ppl near monsters sucks, they can't get away from the threat and then, healing won't help much... But I wanna see how this goes and hopefully Ankama will provide some "adjustments" if things goes wrong.


This post has been edited by ZeraKoN - April 08, 2013, 19:20:44.
Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2011-02-18
posté April 08, 2013, 20:02:52 | #9
I was wrong, Grou did pull off the changes to Fire and Earth rather well and in this update. The further support of Tarot for Earth is a god send; no more need to spec into Tarot and Die. Black bowmeows are almost a must-have now (especially now that they are controllable). With no "freebie" skills in the roster, there will have to be quite a few unique builds, and I'm excited for that.

On Cat Tree
: I'm having a hard time visualizing how it works, maybe a dev could explain it further? So far I'm getting that you'll place the actual tree next to you, and you have a (at max) 30% chance to leap to a space next to the tree or ONTO the tree to gain the damage immunity....? Again some clarity would help.

On Double or Quits: Is this skill still in the roster or was it removed?
Edit: It's still there, yea

On Water Branch: I believe the change is good; I didn't expect the air part to be implemented so quickly. They're fights might be longer than the Luck-cats, but the support potential looks not only substantially adaptive, but fun. I'm gonna have to roll one just to prove Ecaflips can and would be suitiable substitutes for Eniripsas. Some value change is hoped for  


This post has been edited by MakoSeraph - April 08, 2013, 20:12:46.
Reason for edit : typos :P
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-10-06
posté April 08, 2013, 20:15:23 | #10
So you lower the brain from 500 to 150 but keep the brain

Why couldn't you do this to cras? I don't understand.

Unless the brain hit doesnt stun anymore but still why couldnt cras get that 150 instead of just the 80?


Dokushuuuuu * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté April 08, 2013, 20:31:31 | #11
Because Cras dmg is good anyway? And it fits Ecas more, to hit really hard, or don't hit at all.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté April 08, 2013, 21:14:01 | #12

Quote (MakoSeraph @ 08 April 2013 20:02) *
I was wrong, Grou did pull off the changes to Fire and Earth rather well and in this update. The further support of Tarot for Earth is a god send; no more need to spec into Tarot and Die. Black bowmeows are almost a must-have now (especially now that they are controllable). With no "freebie" skills in the roster, there will have to be quite a few unique builds, and I'm excited for that.

On Cat Tree
: I'm having a hard time visualizing how it works, maybe a dev could explain it further? So far I'm getting that you'll place the actual tree next to you, and you have a (at max) 30% chance to leap to a space next to the tree or ONTO the tree to gain the damage immunity....? Again some clarity would help.

On Double or Quits: Is this skill still in the roster or was it removed?
Edit: It's still there, yea

On Water Branch: I believe the change is good; I didn't expect the air part to be implemented so quickly. They're fights might be longer than the Luck-cats, but the support potential looks not only substantially adaptive, but fun. I'm gonna have to roll one just to prove Ecaflips can and would be suitiable substitutes for Eniripsas. Some value change is hoped for

I have no doubt an Eca will be able to heal a group... in the right situation/setup. You'd have to have a close range group who can easily position themselves where needed to get healed. A Cra off on his own will not be able to get heals.

The Glyph for Flea Love only heals players when a monster starts his turn inside the AoE. Only for 35 hp, costs a WP, not to mention 6ap. Flea Love aside, the mobility of a Water Eca will be paralyzed if he wants to heal. Fleahopper build, 9ap and 3mp, doesn't leave room for positioning. The spell also requires an enemy and ally in close proximity. Not only that... you have to hope the target you want healed doesn't have any other members closer. I don't see this working, well.

Water Eca looks exactly like it did before patch but with some nice tricks. Earth just seems sooo much better at this point. I've always played Fire and was looking forward to switching to Water Eca. I don't think I could live with myself giving up the new potential Earth Eca and to some extent Fire has been given to play Water.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2010-12-18
posté April 08, 2013, 22:15:51 | #13
About the water eca, is better then it is right now. More Mobility and %Heals taking effects. Somethings are worse but needed to not OP. Water won't supply Enis capabilities, but at this point eca can be useful in the middle team, between the damage dealers and support mates. Helping a little here and there. A lot a people will still say better 3 enis + 3 cras, but i do play for fun so i'm into the new changes.

P.S. Does everyone see that earth bonus? o_o

~Pulga


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-10-06
posté April 08, 2013, 23:55:07 | #14

Quote (Rokugatsu @ 08 April 2013 20:31) *
Because Cras dmg is good anyway? And it fits Ecas more, to hit really hard, or don't hit at all.
You clearly haven't seen a good eca yet

And it makes more sense for an ARROW to do more damage based on where it hits. A brain shot is gonna do more than hitting your arm.

It doesn't even not hit at all anyway what are you even talking about.


Dokushuuuuu * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté April 09, 2013, 00:01:27 | #15
I've seen a lot of them, don't worry

By "not hit at all" I meant that ecas can hit really hard or a lot below average, that's the point of this class, luck.

And Cras still got their precision and they are still good, so what's the problem? Why would you even compare Cras spells to Ecas? Just because Eca got something doesn't mean Cra need to have it too


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté April 09, 2013, 01:37:16 | #16
But the point is, Cra's do have it. During revamps Ankama removed Brain damage from Cra Precision but proceed to leave it (modified) for Eca's. I'd be a little annoyed too if I cared about my Cra.


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2006-06-16
posté April 09, 2013, 01:37:21 | #17
Some thoughts and questions:

1. How long does the Fleeches glyph last? It says it has two charges and loses one at the end of the turn. I'm thinking this means we only get one enemy turn per glyph. Is this correct? If we get two enemy turns per glyph, it would definitely justify the high cost. One enemy turn isn't really worth it unless you can get multiple enemies in it.

2. Speaking of which - if I cast a Fleeches glyph on 3 enemies and myself, will I get healed three times (once at the beginning of each of their turns)?

3. I've really enjoyed the current Fire/Water build based on Fleeches and Craps. What do you see as viable Water/Fire builds with this revamp? Would a Flealine Army build where you level Fleahopper but mostly operate as a fire Eca be workable? Or would it be better to be mostly Water but have a Fire ranged option? Or would it just be best to focus on one?

4. I must be dense - what is the "Hairy Moon" spell at the end of the PDF? Does that have something to do with the black bow meow, or is it something to do with cards?

5. At first glance, the +90% Earth damage on half of their turns seems a bit much. However, really thinking about the crit possibilities of WS with the new bonus to crit damage does balance it out. Getting to 25 WS would mean a +50% damage bonus on more than 50% of our attacks for a crit build, and as you get higher it gets much better - a 50 WS would be a 100% damage bonus to over 75% of your attacks.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2008-06-02
posté April 09, 2013, 04:09:35 | #18

Quote (Gynrei @ 08 April 2013 21:14) *

Quote (MakoSeraph @ 08 April 2013 20:02) *
The Glyph for Flea Love only heals players when a monster starts his turn inside the AoE. Only for 35 hp, costs a WP, not to mention 6ap. Flea Love aside, the mobility of a Water Eca will be paralyzed if he wants to heal. Fleahopper build, 9ap and 3mp, doesn't leave room for positioning. The spell also requires an enemy and ally in close proximity. Not only that... you have to hope the target you want healed doesn't have any other members closer. I don't see this working, well.
Wow, I didn't see the need of an Enemy inside the glyph for Flea Love... that's just.. a really huge drawback ...
Come Grou... You want a class that can compete with Eni's with all this range/values/MP cost nerfs?...

And after some maths in comparison with Enis and Water Ecas, Enis cleary win and leave no chance for being replaced, not even if the group don't have an Eni to invite in ... Players still can't count on Water Ecaflips as "the healer of the group".

Btw, the "we wanted to make Water Ecaflips with more mobility"... After reading the GDC, with all this range nerfs and MP costs? Really?... Like, every spell have a huge drawback in the "small details"... a lot of "ifs" to make it to work ... =/

What Water Ecas are now? Before they were, the unique life-stealer class... Now they are not a DD, they are not a Tanker, they are not a Healer, they are not a Buffer/Debuffer... so...? What is the Water Ecaflips role? I'm afraid of the answer...


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2012-01-06
posté April 09, 2013, 05:55:46 | #19
What role does water have? Support-Support healer!
I'm sure the Eniripsa will always be the hardest, the easiest and the most straightforward healer class. 'That's their thing'. The Kitties however will be supporting by doing damage 'and' healing [at the same time]. Don't expect to be the best at either, but excell at doing both things adequately and you'll have an amazing concept for an adaptive support- healer.


This post has been edited by VoidSettler - April 09, 2013, 05:56:33.
Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-02-18
posté April 09, 2013, 06:18:40 | #20
If the PDF is implimented as written, I am very disappointed in the Water revamp. There are way too many stipulations on healing spells to "rival" Eni.

Fleahopper only heals IF damages are dealt. This means it is the only heal spell with a chance to FAIL. It also only heals AN ally (singular) within 3 squares of the target. What if there are multiple allies in range? Does it randomly assign the heal? Bad design. It also costs 1 mp....

Flea Love is very underwhelming for a 6ap / 1wp spell. If you cast it on an enemy, you need to wait 3 turns before it will heal your allies, and only if they are in contact with you. If you cast it as a glyph, and an enemy starts their turn in it... the glyph will heal AN ally (singular) IF they are standing in the glyph. What if there are multiple allies in the glyph? Random choice? Horrible design. Not to mention, the glyph only heals the (singular) ally for 35 hp at max. 35 hp. For a 6ap / 1wp spell... you are only healed for a base 35 hp if used as a glyph. Flea Love is also limited to 1 per turn, and it doesn't look like it refunds the wp anymore.