Back to forum.wakfu.com
Almanax 19 Septangel
Me Hearty Party
A whole day in honour of pirates: that's the dream that Seth Halitosis, modest corsair from the ...

No flash

Can we talk about Fire Ecaflips?
The Sinister Six * Member Since 2012-02-09
posté May 22, 2013, 06:04:02 | #1
Can we talk about Fire Ecaflips? Seriously.

They are a tad on the absurd side.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté May 22, 2013, 06:17:39 | #2
Well, they are the only element that can still make use of ecaflips die, even so they are still weaker than before.


Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2013-03-09
posté May 22, 2013, 06:56:12 | #3
Im an earth eca and i feel like since i am not fire i am doing it wrong.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-02-22
posté May 22, 2013, 09:28:29 | #4
We did get nerfed last patch a tad aswell, not as much as the other two trees though, I'm not noticing much difference in game, other than what is due to my own build changes and what is due to the fire nation usually having a 0% fire clan bonus at the moment. I think that winning streak giving 100 fire damage and 100 crit damage would of been fairer on other elements than what they did, but winning streak was (and still is) absurd anyway, I'm sure people are still raising eca die just for up to 50% crit. Without looking at winning streak, fire and earth are fairly equal in terms of average base damage, they're just not keeping the buffs equal as usual.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté May 22, 2013, 12:29:43 | #5
Just checking, does dice roulette work outside of respec place?


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2011-07-14
posté May 22, 2013, 14:58:16 | #6

Quote (HakazabaJub @ 22 May 2013 12:29) *
Just checking, does dice roulette work outside of respec place?
Only kinda, I wrote a bug report of it. Crit Dice Roulette works well, but non-crits work erratically. Most of the cases it doesn't work, sometimes it does with more than a single target at your sides instead of at your front, weird stuff like that.

As for fire Ecas... I think they're alright now. There was certainly a nerf and now Ecaflip Die benefits them far more than other branches. Earth ones, however, were starting to get out of control. Up to +100% damage with a positive card draw (Black Bow Meow's Cuddle out plus the built-in bonus of Tarot), plus all the crit damage from Ecaflip Die which they could build up just as easily from crits and enemy kills. I'm actually happy to see the change, and it's not like WS became completely useless to non-fire kitties anyway.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté May 22, 2013, 22:54:35 | #7
Yeah, but now water sucks more than it ever did.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2010-07-07
posté May 23, 2013, 01:23:21 | #8
Water gets an 80% Damage bonus with consistent use of fleas. Other bonuses that it can get are related to Roll again. Generally speaking, its a static 110% Damage increase after 3-4 turns

Earth gets a 40% Bonus from tarot for drawing a decent card and another 40% damage from just having a bow meow out. In addition, another 30% damage from Roll again. For a random 110% damage, instantaneously.

Fire ecas get around 200% Fire damage if and only if their winstreak is at 100.

If anything, that 200% damage is a combination of both luck and 3-4 turns of using fire spells. Even then, there is no guarantee that you will hit 100 winstreak in 3-4 turns. To get an idea, with a little luck, I will get about 50-60 winstreak after 2-3 turns, which is about 100-120% Damage....which is similar to all the other bonuses.

So after several wakfu points spent (more wakfu if you use Die Alright), you will reach 200% fire damage. But, if luck is not on your side, you can go an entire game without receiving any fire damage. Even worse, if you manage to get a 6 on a D-6 and receive +12 winstreak (a 16% chance) you have a 50% chance of watching that lucky winstreak bonus go bye-bye


tl;dr, the reason fire ecas have the potential to get 200% fire damage is because the bonus (100 winstreak) is rather difficult to obtain and is subject to randomness more then any other ecaflip mechanic. And their spells do not have many additional effects, except raw damage when critting and the ability to build winstreak at low chances.

-More risk, more reward.
 


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté May 23, 2013, 02:15:13 | #9
Water lost 100% crits 200% crit damage 1 ap 1 mp (more with ws changes) and 50% damage from cat. (and having a crappy flea hopper proc)

and was given 80% damage in return.


I wouldn't take that deal. winning streak is alot easier to stack than you make it out to be.
I'm struggling to come up with a good hybrid build now.


This post has been edited by HakazabaJub - May 23, 2013, 02:17:09.
Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-02-28
posté May 25, 2013, 11:53:17 | #10
Don't you think 100% crit and 200% crit damage is a bit to OP?

Also the craps and black meow trick was a bit extreme aswell.

I think the changes were needed.


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2012-02-20
posté May 25, 2013, 17:14:23 | #11
Nerf Fire Ecas and to some extent earth Ecas.


The damage is absurd, the mobility is absurd, the passives are absurd.


Totally absurd OPness.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté May 25, 2013, 17:35:26 | #12

Quote (Koryaze @ 25 May 2013 11:53) *
Don't you think 100% crit and 200% crit damage is a bit to OP?

Also the craps and black meow trick was a bit extreme aswell.

I think the changes were needed.
Yes, i think the changes were needed, but not for the water Ecaflips. That post was about what water Ecas lost from the update which was all of the bonuses from 2 specialties and the flehopper proc for 80 damage that is a major pain for hybrids.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2012-02-20
posté May 25, 2013, 17:50:31 | #13
Yeah Fire and Earth Ecas are just broken right now, too much damage :s


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-02-28
posté May 26, 2013, 03:32:15 | #14
@insatings

They're not broken now, they just changed them to be average.

@cond

Losing to an Eca in a fight doesn't make the class OP, you don't even know eca's in depth. If you base everything on PVP 1v1 i'd say panda's, iops, xelors and every class I lose to needs a nerf which would ultimately lead to this stupid endless cycle where 1 class beats another class and they would be considered OP and need to be changed, then that class that was just nerfed would say every other class is OP just because they lose in PVP 1v1. Not everything should be based on PVP.

Please study the class a bit more and if you still think the class is OP, i'll totally accept your opinion.

@haka

So you think the only thing fire eca's got going for them (eca die) should be shared damage for water aswell? but not earth.
Not all elements should be on par with one another. Why arn't water xelors as strong as Air and fire xelors?

And using hybrid builds arn't always going to work in every situation they have their advantages and disadvantages.


This post has been edited by Koryaze - May 26, 2013, 04:36:11.
The Sinister Six * Member Since 2012-02-09
posté May 26, 2013, 11:38:26 | #15

Quote (Koryaze @ 26 May 2013 03:32) *
@insatings

They're not broken now, they just changed them to be average.

@cond

Losing to an Eca in a fight doesn't make the class OP, you don't even know eca's in depth. If you base everything on PVP 1v1 i'd say panda's, iops, xelors and every class I lose to needs a nerf which would ultimately lead to this stupid endless cycle where 1 class beats another class and they would be considered OP and need to be changed, then that class that was just nerfed would say every other class is OP just because they lose in PVP 1v1. Not everything should be based on PVP.

Please study the class a bit more and if you still think the class is OP, i'll totally accept your opinion.

@haka

So you think the only thing fire eca's got going for them (eca die) should be shared damage for water aswell? but not earth.
Not all elements should be on par with one another. Why arn't water xelors as strong as Air and fire xelors?

And using hybrid builds arn't always going to work in every situation they have their advantages and disadvantages.
Do you honestly think Double or Quits is fair to balance with?

It's fun as all hell but holy crap you can 1shot in PvP with it. It's completely unfair.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté May 26, 2013, 11:49:58 | #16

Quote (Koryaze @ 26 May 2013 03:32) *
@haka

So you think the only thing fire eca's got going for them (eca die) should be shared damage for water aswell? but not earth.
Not all elements should be on par with one another. Why arn't water xelors as strong as Air and fire xelors?

And using hybrid builds arn't always going to work in every situation they have their advantages and disadvantages.
Well, hybrids need somthing going for them, before there was a wonderful synergy between elements because the skills had overlap, it led to very interesting interactions. Now playing a hybrid is seems like its really just about being a nonconformist.

As for the element balance, water xelors have ap drain to tradeoff that damage, this lets them be very effective in a team, they also have very well made element interactions just like ecas used to have.

Water ecas used to be great tanks vs multiple opponents, after the revamp they could abuse the eca die bugs to be effective damage dealers but now what exactly is the role they are supposed to play in a team? They can do some ok aoe damage with flea love i guess.


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2012-02-20
posté May 26, 2013, 12:23:22 | #17

Quote (Koryaze @ 26 May 2013 03:32) *
@insatings

They're not broken now, they just changed them to be average.

@cond

Losing to an Eca in a fight doesn't make the class OP, you don't even know eca's in depth. If you base everything on PVP 1v1 i'd say panda's, iops, xelors and every class I lose to needs a nerf which would ultimately lead to this stupid endless cycle where 1 class beats another class and they would be considered OP and need to be changed, then that class that was just nerfed would say every other class is OP just because they lose in PVP 1v1. Not everything should be based on PVP.

Please study the class a bit more and if you still think the class is OP, i'll totally accept your opinion.

@haka

So you think the only thing fire eca's got going for them (eca die) should be shared damage for water aswell? but not earth.
Not all elements should be on par with one another. Why arn't water xelors as strong as Air and fire xelors?

And using hybrid builds arn't always going to work in every situation they have their advantages and disadvantages.
If you don't accept my opinion thats your problem. But you are a fanboy so you won't accept any other opinion on the matter. Fact is, they are broken right now and should be nerf, and WHEN they are, you are going to QQ in forums about it ofc.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-02-28
posté May 26, 2013, 13:25:40 | #18
If they do nerf eca's again, believe me I won't be complaining. I would accept your opinion if you only knew what you were talking about and made valid excuses why they are "OP".

Tell me some things that eca's have over osa's please (this isn't a joke). I'd really like to know what you think.

Or try show me your point of view so I can better understand where you're coming from.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2012-02-20
posté May 26, 2013, 19:15:35 | #19

Quote (Koryaze @ 26 May 2013 13:25) *
Tell me some things that eca's have over osa's please (this isn't a joke). I'd really like to know what you think.

Or try show me your point of view so I can better understand where you're coming from.
Double or Quits as it was mentioned before. Hell, even without it...


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-02-25
posté May 26, 2013, 20:38:07 | #20

Quote (insatings1 @ 26 May 2013 19:15) *

Quote (Koryaze @ 26 May 2013 13:25) *
Tell me some things that eca's have over osa's please (this isn't a joke). I'd really like to know what you think.

Or try show me your point of view so I can better understand where you're coming from.
Double or Quits as it was mentioned before. Hell, even without it...
funny how nobody cared about DoQ pre buff.
I know DoQ is strong, i've been oneturning people with it already, but ive also failed super hard with it many times.

It's kinda balanced by the fact that its a 50:50 chance.