Back to forum.wakfu.com

No flash

Is there any point in making a hybrid or omni ecaflip?
Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté October 22, 2013, 12:26:06 | #1
Is there any point in making a hybrid or omni ecaflip? The question is in the title, ive been trying to figure out something, but nothing seems as effective as a single ele.

Do you have any ideas for hybrid or omni builds that might be useful?


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-02-22
posté October 22, 2013, 14:30:58 | #2
I have considered hybrids a few times but it's always seemed like I'm losing too much and not gaining a lot back for it, this has often been due to gear as much as anything else though. Since most of the ecas passive damage supports are split up into individual elements, it doesn't have a lot of support for going hybrid unfortunately. They also got rid of the good synergy between fire and water with the changes to fleahopper and fleeches, which wasn't fantastic.

When I get access to magmog set, I would like to try fire/earth, attacking based on how tarot and winning streak play out, as well as being able to choose the lower resistance. Since tarot and winning steak are two different mechanics, that would give more ways of making the most out of good luck, as well as more ways around bad luck, so I can see it being effective. Having both craps and all in means using up spare ap is never a problem. The spells combo ok and the passives link together quite well, since I would normally take tarot on a mono fire eca and die on a mono earth eca anyway personally.

Also while it's not exactly hybrid, having access to higher level fleahopper and/or fleeches is useful for any eca as a way to heal and support their team if simply attacking isn't a better option, though gear can limit this a bit.


Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2011-08-14
posté November 05, 2013, 07:51:54 | #3
There is no way to playable hybrid build.
Just believe in what I said.

There is no way to playable hybrid build for Eca
Just believe in what I said.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-01-05
posté November 05, 2013, 08:21:46 | #4
The opposite is true.

First of all hybrids are always viable now. You lose 20-40% damage or so to a mono build and when you have really high end equip that doesn't make a whole lot of difference. You can still get to around 600% damage or at least well over 500%

Ecaflips may not have the best synergies between their elements, but one can always combine for the sake of versatility. Most content on higher levels punishes mono builds sooner or later while hybrids get to decide what resistances of their enemies to attack.

I am playing and have seen fire/earth Ecas and they are working well. You just gotta pay attention to not build it too WP dependant. Other than that fire is a good aoe addition to earths single target damage.

I'd be interested to see water hybrid with one of the other elements. Imo that should work as well. One for the support, one for the damage.


This post has been edited by Shaleigh1 - November 05, 2013, 08:26:24.
Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2013-06-26
posté November 05, 2013, 09:25:49 | #5

Quote (Shaleigh1 @ 05 November 2013 08:21) *
The opposite is true.

First of all hybrids are always viable now. You lose 20-40% damage or so to a mono build and when you have really high end equip that doesn't make a whole lot of difference. You can still get to around 600% damage or at least well over 500%

Ecaflips may not have the best synergies between their elements, but one can always combine for the sake of versatility. Most content on higher levels punishes mono builds sooner or later while hybrids get to decide what resistances of their enemies to attack.

I am playing and have seen fire/earth Ecas and they are working well. You just gotta pay attention to not build it too WP dependant. Other than that fire is a good aoe addition to earths single target damage.

I'd be interested to see water hybrid with one of the other elements. Imo that should work as well. One for the support, one for the damage.
Playing as a mono earth ecaflip, I have yet to be punished for having a mono elementbuild.

I wouldn't sacrifise my damage and secondary stats such CDB (Not available on Fire/Earth gear).
Just to be more versatile when it's not necessary at all in my group setup, especially with fire and earth having such low synergy.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-01-05
posté November 05, 2013, 16:19:31 | #6
When you have only earth resistant targets available you are being punished. Wether you perceive it that way or not is irrelevant.

You are, as pointed out above, not even really sacrificing damage for hybrids with the new systems anymore. I urge you to test it out with the next respec you are getting. All you lose is about 20-40% damage and as I said since good builds of your level easily have 600%+ damage available that hardly matters since you are easily getting something equal to a 100%+ bonus vs targets that usually would be very resistant had you stayed mono. (Not to mention the aoe fire offers in this particular example)

I am not saying you have to go hybrid, sure mono has some aspects going for it to be chosen over a hybrid. I am just saying that the former assessments of other players of hybrids not being viable at all is completely off.


Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté November 05, 2013, 16:54:38 | #7
It punishes you in a sense that there are high level mobs with TONS of earth resist. If you were dual elements, you get to choose whichever element the mob has the lowest resist on, giving you a higher dmg per turn total.

Water/Earth

In the Ecaflip forum, I talked about going water/earth. I tested MANY different builds with sylargh/kraken before the patch. I did not like the synergy between the two. Something lacks, for me, I like seeing big numbers across the board, so that build was not for me. Also, the heals in water spells do not compensate for the dmg loss from being mono. The heals is too low, mind as well go full water for better heals.

Fire/Water

I'm yet to try fire/water, as I speculate the same result. Lower fire dmg, for mini water heals and occasionally providing allies crits. (keep in mind, you give as much crit from fleahopper being lv 10 or lv 115, per say, the amount is fixed and doesn't change.)


Fire/Earth

It's INSANELY good. Combining the two is godly. First, you do not gamble dmg, your dmg will always be constant or more. You do not suffer from lack of dmg. The synergy is there.

Personally, I love earth, and I wouldn't change it for nothing. But PvE wise, dmg loss per turn is game changing, specially more now than before since dungeons are getting harder.

As Earth, if you have All-in leveled, you always have that chance that it will not proc the second time. Now, what if you change that spell with D-Six? D-Six never risks losing dmg, instead, it only gives more dmg. If D-six's die lands on a 6, the dmg is doubled unless blocked by the mob.

What if you like Battle? Still risking 33% to heal the target. In this game 33% feels more like 50% on abilities. and a 33% drop from a mob feels like 5%. Anyways, replace that with Craps, or Die Alright. Die Alright is an amazing AoE spell on crits. Super handy to have.

If you have a lot of crit on your gear, 45%+ or more, go for Dice Roulette, or keep All-in.

The other Earth spells are very much viable as they don't gamble dmg, and their base dmg is high.


Synergy

Fire/Earth does benefit from all the passives/actives a mono Earth player would have, except for Black Bow Meow.

Feline Leap: Amazing for fire/earth, gives an additional 50% dmg

Tarots: Benefits both Elements, and gives bonus dmg to Earth spells. God Cards also provide an increase of Base dmg toward HoT, and other bonuses to Earth spells.

Ecaflip Precision: Procs on all spells, and increases dmg output

Ecaflip Die: This is the cream cheese to your bagel. Provides crits, and increases Fire Dmg. Think about a 50% winning streak, and a backstab crit with Die Alright (that AoE though) with potential of WS being higher.

Roll Again: Optional, but still good.

The rest is up to you and your gameplay.

Hope I explained it well

-Faded


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-01-05
posté November 08, 2013, 07:25:41 | #8
Just directed at your first sentence, you really do not lose more than like 30% damage comparing a hybrid with a mono element character. Ankama made sure hybrids are a lot more viable now.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté November 17, 2013, 21:07:31 | #9
Shaleigh1, 30% damage is actually quite a large loss, as all the important enemies (bosses and ubs) have equal resists across the board and have 300-500+ resistance.

When you are a hybrid with 500% damage playing with a single element with 530 vs that 500 res boss the single element will be doing 30% more damage.

Resists being equal on all bosses makes it pointless if you dont get any more base damage from being hybrid. Most classes do this (for example a fire air iop getting 40 more base damage from gutting gust)but i see little opportunity in ecaflip.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-10-22
posté December 01, 2013, 14:09:12 | #10
I have always considered mono-element to be unplayable. Too easy to come up with a build. This is the reason I think mono element should be nerfed. Even 20% mastery damage/resist edge is too much given how much harder it is to come up with multi-element builds.


Ancient Eradicator * Member Since 2008-06-09
posté December 01, 2013, 15:22:28 | #11

Quote (solluxander @ 01 December 2013 14:09) *
I have always considered mono-element to be unplayable. Too easy to come up with a build. This is the reason I think mono element should be nerfed. Even 20% mastery damage/resist edge is too much given how much harder it is to come up with multi-element builds.
What planet do you live on? This post is in the running for the "Worst Forum Post of the Year" Award since it is completely illogical. Mono-builds should always have superior damage to a multi-elemental build. Everyone knows that pretty much except you. That is one of the benefits of being mono-elemental. Plus, that superior damage becomes nullified by the multi-elemental builds having superior resistance. I do not even know why you added that 20% resistance on mono-builds when multi-elemental obviously has better overall resistance.

Here is a small list of Mono vs Multi:

Superior damage vs. Superior resistance

Versatility in one branch vs. Versatility in many branches

Potential damage vs. Consistent good damage due to multiple elements AND less likely to be hit than a mono-elemental build.

Added stats in mono gear vs Spell system being in their favor in terms of mastery percent distribution per spell xp used.

I am not putting gear options on this list due to if we were living in a perfect game where everyone had the perfect gear and level 200 legendaries for their build gear options would not be an issue, and thus such an issue does not have anything to do with the builds themselves but rather the gear content.

Seems all you want to do is hit just as hard as a mono-elemental while being multi-elemental. You seem to forget the advantages of each build, and do not appreciate the advantages your multi-elemental build has over mono-elemental builds. You are just being illogical with your desires. By the way, there is a reason why many high-level characters prefer being multi-elemental over mono-elemental now, which is partly due to one advantage mono-elementals lack in the high levels. There is no mono-elemental gear there, so there is no added states on their gear since they are also using multi-elemental gear. Mono-elementals are the ones getting shafted at the moment, not multi-elementals.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-10-22
posté December 01, 2013, 15:47:05 | #12
But bosses still have equal resists, and if you dual element you can only max 2 spells in a branch instead of 4 so choices are harder. Often it's really hard to justify a wp spell because it'll leave you only with 1 spell in an element once you run out of wp. Hybrids are definitely second rate currently wrt overall power. Still competitive, but they need to be better in all respects to justify harder spell choices. It's impossible to make both hybrids and mono first rate so I think it's better to make mono second rate and hybrids first rate, not the other way around like it is now.


This post has been edited by solluxander - December 01, 2013, 15:49:39.
Soft Crackler * Member Since 2008-06-24
posté December 28, 2013, 18:39:37 | #13

Quote (solluxander @ 01 December 2013 15:47) *
But bosses still have equal resists, and if you dual element you can only max 2 spells in a branch instead of 4 so choices are harder. Often it's really hard to justify a wp spell because it'll leave you only with 1 spell in an element once you run out of wp. Hybrids are definitely second rate currently wrt overall power. Still competitive, but they need to be better in all respects to justify harder spell choices. It's impossible to make both hybrids and mono first rate so I think it's better to make mono second rate and hybrids first rate, not the other way around like it is now.
...so?

A wp spell isn't to be used like an average spell to begin with so I don't see why this is a problem anyway.

For those who are optimizing damage per AP/MP/WP spent, it's really not difficult to become an exceptionally powerful hybrid and utilize a WP spell.

I've used a many a classes as hybrids because I've always seen them as more useful at later stages in Wakfu.

Second rate in overall power? I'm a hybrid fire/earth fogger, air/fire xelor, and several other hybrid classes. ALL of my classes can nuke in 620+% dmg in BOTH their elements. The new standard is super high hybrid damage if you ask me. Is it possible to have high mono element damage and be first rate, yes. But is it "better" than hybrid damage late-game? I don't think so.

Fire/Earth Eca has some of the best burst and consistent damage in metagame... That's excluding lucky DoQ or God Cards...


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté December 31, 2013, 16:14:51 | #14
One point in PvE is... you mono-elemental got more dmg meybe... but lose resist other elemental....


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté January 01, 2014, 10:15:46 | #15

Quote (Nsuidara @ 31 December 2013 16:14) *
One point in PvE is... you mono-elemental got more dmg meybe... but lose resist other elemental....
But you gain higher resist to 1 element.