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Iop revamp: Idle speculations.
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2011-06-29
posté November 23, 2013, 13:54:54 | #1
Iop revamp: Idle speculations. So while I have no expectations to ever be capable of making a suggestion or contribution the developers would listen to, I kind of feel like *eventually* Iops will get around to being revamped, and *hopefully* will be made to be a lot less bland than they are and have been for a long time, especially considering some of the newer, more interesting (and complex, and powerful) things they're doing with other classes like rogue, fogger, etc.

Mostly, it's about making Iops more like.. well, Iops. It's been a *long* time since I saw the show, but as far as I can recall things, Iops are meant to be knights and guardians of Shushu (demons), meant to keep them restrained. They are chivalrous weaponmasters who sometimes become possessed by the shushu they're keeping locked up in their weapons.. and presently, Wakfu doesn't mechanically reflect ANY of that.

So here's some food for thought. Bear in mind it's from an Iop..

Let's change up the passives!

Virility: Currently gives +20% Max HP maxed out. This is not bad (every Iop should take it, no doubt), but at the same time it's obviously got room for improvement: Just look at similar HP buffs from any other class. Give it +1 Resistance to all damage types per rank, for 20% res all at max rank. Done deal. Nothing major, but a helpful little bit that makes Iops slightly better at soaking damage. They're not meant to be tanks, but they are meant to be able to take hits.

Compulsion: +40% general damage buff. Good passive, but also fairly boring. This is something that can be easily changed to make it more Iop-thematic. Change the name of it to Weapon Master, and add to it that every rank gives 2% of your weapon(s) base damage as an additional amount of elemental damage. This means that at rank 20, it will give 40% dmg + 40% of your weapon(s) base damage as an extra amount (including a dagger, if you happen to have one in the offhand). Realistically this will not be a huge amount even at the endgame at present, and by its nature it scales to the environment you're in (so it won't be overpowering low-end, and it will be considered a small amount late-game). It still might be necessary to lower the 40% general damage down to compensate if it's too much damage with both at 40%, but I think it'd be a decent tradeoff even so. And now it fits what an Iop is. You can take more advantage of it by wearing a dagger, or forego a small amount of +dmg for more defense, which is helped by virility further.

Authority: They finally removed all mentions of facing from it just recently, and that suits me just fine. I don't agree with the 3/turn limit, but whatever. It's generally good enough as it is; consider possibly buffing it so that the 10% chance to clap gives allies +5% crit for the next turn, making the clapping meaningful mechanically. Otherwise fine.

Showoff: Great in groups where you'll typically find it maxed out every turn, worthless if you're soloing. My main issue is that it's a damage buff when you already have other sources for this--it's more of the same, and it's unreliable to attain and not hugely noticed when you have it. That should change. For this reason, Preparation as a buff should change from +1% dmg to the next attack to be +1 critical hit chance, which lasts until you next crit. It still caps at 100% (ensuring a crit on your next attack), and it only lasts for one attack, but it should be more meaningful now. It should not only be if an ally kills an enemy, but whenever ANY enemy dies, allowing solo iops to now find *some* use in the skill.

Locking Pro: Easily the weakest Iop passive unless you solely PvP, and even then it is still the lowest. It would only be above Showoff if you duel and don't expect to have any allies in your fights, and with the multitude of multiclienting, that is rare. This skill needs help. Rename it Shushu Guardian for flavor, and give it some interesting mechanics. Give it +2.5 Lock/rank (+50 Lock rank at max), and give it some kind of interesting effect in addition to Iop-bound (which should stay, and should still keep its every-other-turn immunity effect to counterbalance itself). One of these two I think would be good:

* Make it so that at rank 20, Iops now lock all 8 squares around themself, rather than just the adjacent four. It would be a hindrance to enemes trying to move around the Iop, and give Iops more battlefield presence (especially in groupds, where you could make a 'hold the line' scenario with 2-3 iops--really cool stuff!). They aren't necessarily tanks, but neither should you just easily go around them to something else. For non-teleporting, non-pushback enemies (which there are not a ton of being made at higher levels, to keep this all in perspective) it means they have to have two lock checks in most cases to go past the Iop. This option also indirectly buffs standard bearer, just by making its stabilization ability meaningful as the Iop's area of influence expands, and with SB you can ensure it's where you want.

* Alternatively, make it so that anyone who fails a lock check against the Iop is automatically struck by the Iop's mainhand weapon, without the Iop spending any AP/MP/WP/etc. Free weapon hit any time they manage to keep something in front of them--think D&D and an AoO.

Either one works to make Locking Pro actually worthwhile. I suspect doing both would make it just plain doing too much at that point, and I'm undecided. In general it'd be nice just to see the Iop's passives be more interesting in gameplay. They don't need to be hugely complex like foggers, fecas or what-have-you, they just need to do more than they are now.

Actives

Jump: Great skill. Pretty much always picked in favor of Flatten because you can't stun yourself with it, it costs less, it can ignore obstacles, and it gives you a damage buff. At the same time, the damage buff is minor now (I'm fairly certain it used to give +50% preparation, and before that just +50% damage to the next attack unlinked to prep), and it is a very costly skill for how little movement you're getting: 2 MP for 2 AP and 1 WP. Not very great in the scheme of things. Remove the power buff, set the limit at 2/turn, and drop the 2 AP. 1 WP for 2 spaces with no LOS at rank 9.

Defensive Stance: Pretty decent skill all in all. They recently lowered it from 50 block to 40 block at max rank, and I'm not huge on that change, but it is still a fairly respectable skill. It suffers from the same sort of thing that compulsion and virility do, though--it's great and absolutely worth taking, but it could be doing more and not be broken at all. Give it +20 Lock at rank 9, and and an added benefit that if anyone critically hits the Iop while they're in D-stance, the Iop gains +20 Preparation (the new version). Makes it more powerful, but balances it around the shared status with Showoff--if Showoff is already maxed, you gain no benefit.

Flatten: Oh, Flatten. I want to like you. Well, really, I do like flatten. It just isn't as good as Jump, and really isn't that much better than charges that you already find in your elemental trees. It has two more range than charge/SIP, costing the same, but it requires points better spent in other specialties and it can end your turn with you having done nothing *but* close in on an enemy, even maxed. Most people I think would rather save 18 levels worth of specialty points and use a Jump + SIP/Charge instead of flatten. Even at max rank it requires LOS, which you can frequently find yourself lacking if you're the full 5 squares away.

tl;dr ditch Flatten. It's time to make room for a new, interesting speciality: Shushu Possession. Iops deserve this, okay. It's a defining class thematic, as much as if not more than similar class transformations (drhellzerker, osa possession, etc). For what it does, however, I'm still at a loss here. I'm only an Iop, after all. Something like..

1 WP transformation (and some splattering of AP that reduces as it ranks up). +100% weapon base damage to all elemental damages (stacking with the passive), but makes your weapon unusable in this state. -20% Res all while in this state, but elemental attacks while possessed use the target's weakest elemental resistance, regardless of the Iop's elemental damage type for their attack.

IDK man, I know I want shushu possession. I don't know mechanically how it should work in a way that is distinct to itself and to Iops as a defining feature.

Bravery Standard: It's okay, but really, the best part of about it is *still* that it stabilized the Iop, and that's not even what the skill is really meant to be about. Let's change that: Bravery standard's damage buff is now effective to all allies around the map, not just those in close quarters (there's no reason for it to be limited to a 2-tile nearby effect). Lasts until the Iop's next turn and can give a party-wide +50% damage buff. It's cool, but hardly broken. As an added effect, consider making it so that if the Iop is in a guild, the standard the Iop bears is their guild's (ala the guild flag wave emote). Would be a nice touch.

Increase: I haven't done my homework on this skill. As in, I've never used it since it's been changed. From everything I know it's pretty good for what it does, though. My main issue is just that its text is outdated and it should be clearer on what it *actually* does, because the wording is unclear if it *actually* removes the power state to do what it does (Which it does, to my knowledge, by the description makes it sound like it *gives* the power state to you, and is all-around bad). If the increase stun chance doesn't last until you next stun (I think it might just be for the turn?), it should. Otherwise it's fine, and I can't think of much that should be done to it to make it any more Iop-like.

I have issues with the Iop's elemental spells too, but that's another topic for another time. Feel free to critique it and give your thoughts or your own ideas, it's just stuff I've had around and wanted to put to words. I think Iops as a class are great, but I think the present implementation of Wakfu Iops leaves out most of what Iops are in favor of generic melee DPSer that isn't even that great at that anymore. There's plenty of melee DPS, but Iops are knights and shushu guardians, and they desperately need some distinction. More than a power buff, I hope any future revamp of the class adds in some more thematic stuff for them.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté November 23, 2013, 13:59:12 | #2
Iop's don't need revamps.


Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2012-10-30
posté November 23, 2013, 15:22:31 | #3
No, Iops aren't meant to be Shushu guardians, Tristepin isn't the only Iop in existence and iirc the founder of the Order of the Guardians was a centaur...


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-04-03
posté November 23, 2013, 17:06:46 | #4

Quote (Smaakpapil @ 23 November 2013 13:59) *
Iop's don't need revamps.
Lemme second this. Iops are already well-built and probably most balanced class.


Mister Winter Fashion Victim 2012 * Member Since 2012-12-16
posté November 23, 2013, 21:13:27 | #5
As much as I love the idea of my main being buffed or made more interesting, Iop are already upper tier/one of the most balanced classes and other classes need attention first.

Maybe after the dust settles and everything else is revamped, classes that were mostly untouched can get some more attention. But not right now.

• Mango


Short Strich * Member Since 2011-01-27
posté November 26, 2013, 13:44:40 | #6
I just wanna say that if it's not broken don't fix it. As of right now, Iops are well balanced in the grand scheme of things and don't require any major overhaul. However; I do admit that I'd like changes to be made to Flatten and Bravery Standard. Maybe make Bravery Standard cost 2AP at lvl.9 and remove the preparation buff completely. As for Flatten I really want it to be replaced by something totally different. Iops have enough gap-closers and they really don't need another one.


posté December 04, 2013, 05:17:20 | #7
iop should have transformation skill like they do in the movie whre he combined with the sword and become more powerful..


Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2010-12-17
posté December 05, 2013, 10:58:49 | #8
No!
Wakfu animated serie != Wakfu game
So.. No!


Dokushuuuuu * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté December 05, 2013, 11:46:35 | #9

Quote (nuce @ 04 December 2013 05:17) *
iop should have transformation skill like they do in the movie whre he combined with the sword and become more powerful..
Just because one Iop had a shushu in the series doesn't mean all of them does... Your average Iop doesn't have any transformation skills so I don't see why should we have a spell like this in the game.
It's like saying that all Sadidas in the game should be a princesses and all Cras should take care of them, because that's how it was in the series.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté December 05, 2013, 12:25:49 | #10
If anything i'd ask for nerfing iops rather then buffing them as they are currently one of the most powerful class in game while also being reliable all the time (unlike ecaflips who rely on luck, though they are powerful too). But iops are meant to be like that arent they? They should be strong and rush to the battlefield to hit as much as possible without bothering about consequences. Just hit hard and use head for that (funny there's no iop's spell that actually make them use head to attack - sacriers got that instead).

Basically i think Ankama is balancing all classes around the iop with iop being the base of any revamp but with 1 rule in mind to make iops still stronger in terms of brute force.

The iops should be loosing pvp'es when the enemy can outsmart them, use some decoys, traps, statuses that affect iop's movement, etc. In other words, once iop get to enemy it should hit hard, but it shouldn't be easy for them to get to the enemy. It is the reason why the jump spell cost WP. The fights doesn't last long enough though to make iop play without WP (after using up all to jump to get to enemy) as it's prey will die before that happends.

Conclusion: Iops are actually well balanced as they are now, maybe some spells are too powerful comparing to other classes but its other classes that need improvement not the iop who need changes (*cough* nerfs *cough*). I would not ask for Ankama to rebalance iop as it would only make it loose dmg output (knowing ankama), so if i were you i would be happy that they don't plan to change it. The HP pool of other classes on the other hand leave much to be desired.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - December 05, 2013, 12:27:45.
Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2009-02-01
posté December 06, 2013, 22:56:34 | #11
iops cant play without Wakfu points, and air iops are realy weak... they just have high dmg, but no mobility and cant tank without take dmg down... =/

take iops pm out and he will just cry

sorry bad english '-'


Dokushuuuuu * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté December 06, 2013, 22:59:56 | #12
Well... that's the point of Iop, huge dmg. You can't have huge dmg, great mobility, great res ect. Every class should have their good points and weaknesses.

Iops are one of those few lucky classes that are balanced, there is really no point in changing them at the moment.


This post has been edited by Rokugatsu - December 06, 2013, 23:01:30.
Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2009-02-01
posté December 08, 2013, 12:34:23 | #13

Quote (Rokugatsu @ 06 December 2013 22:59) *
Well... that's the point of Iop, huge dmg. You can't have huge dmg, great mobility, great res ect. Every class should have their good points and weaknesses.

Iops are one of those few lucky classes that are balanced, there is really no point in changing them at the moment.

Cras = High dmg + high Mobility

if you dont have one iop u cant say it... need wakfu to move and high lvls become a boring class...and air iops uses wakfu to attack too

i'm not saying iops are unbalance but the air branch of iops are realy limited...


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2011-06-29
posté December 08, 2013, 16:39:15 | #14
So firstly, this wasn't a call to see Iop's revamped and all the people thinking that just.. relax. The point was to moreso talk about how Iops could be made to be more thematically accurate to the fact that they're knights that deal with Shushu.

I don't think they're hugely underpowered, but I do think Iop mechanics are fairly direct and there's not a whole lot of complexity in them to see them do much in the way of fancy things. They're good but not great, and generally speaking it's not because of a lack of power, but because of a lack of complexity (and in a sense, variety).

As for Air Iops, I think they do need something (my vote has always been for more things like flurry's change, which makes them more combo-centric, fitting with the punchy theme), mostly because of the fact that initially, Iops using MP/WP for damage was 'unique', and was kind of a selling point for why they did more damage than others. Other classes and even other elements. Over time they've curbed that significantly, and added much more variety to classes and options for them to do likewise (look at rogue's fullisade or fogger's motherfogger for examples of things using WP that grant you huge damage). Meanwhile, Air Iop's are still spending 1 WP for a so-so amount of additional damage, which competes with a very necessary-but-limited movement option.

They're not bad, but they should be updated to reflect what I'd consider to be changes in the game's complexity and tactical capacity, as they've learned over the years how to do more with the game. I'm hopeful though that with the mention they'll be looking to add more stuff to classes post-100, Iops will get something to address that fact (as will other classes, I hope). We'll see what they end up doing to classes next year.