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Earth Enu Guide Request, ^Title
Soft Crackler * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté October 16, 2013, 02:57:33 | #21
If I had to guess shaleigh probably doesn't realize we can untransform now. It's easy to overlook, took me a while to realize too. Back when we could only untransform by passing a turn an earth hybrid was pretty much garbage. But now that we can untransform it's feasible, you just gotta plan a turn ahead that you will need the other element and keep WP handy if you want to turn back. You can do a hybrid with earth it's just kinda annoying.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-01-05
posté October 16, 2013, 09:14:46 | #22
I know I can transform out of it, but there is no real difference to passing the turn.

Wasting these kinds of ressources on un-transforming is a very consuming proccess. I did not say hybrid builds with earth are totally not viable, I just said I find them strange as they let you make heavy sacrifices for small gains.


As for the other post of yours I am not willing to take that loss of resists and damage. I am 100% convinced that you need a team like I describe it to be successful in the parts of the game where it matters.
You cannot beat a wabbit dungeon nor can you take on Dragon Pig and such if you don't have a team that works together. Part of that is that the positioner accepts that his job is...well positioning. What else would he even do?

That also guarantees you 20 out of 20 backstabs and doesn't lose you an entire turn in 5% of the cases. Besides, I just now took a look at wabbits as well. There is plenty of them there with 250+ lock, some with well more than 300.

Your whole investment becomes moot if you have to fight those. You either accept getting locked a lot then and losing way more than 5% of your turns (which is already too much), but rather 20% and more.* Or you invest a lot more into dodge at which point your damage drops considerably.

__________________________________________________________________________________
* (which will also drop you out of Zerker mode and have you invest a wp again/have you waste an attack with front damage and 0% buff, because you know you might get locked)


This post has been edited by Shaleigh1 - October 16, 2013, 09:14:58.
Soft Crackler * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté October 16, 2013, 10:41:52 | #23
Before = you had to waste a turn not attacking. Now = you can attack, use drhellzerker, no turn lost. Big difference.

A carefully planned boss battle is an exception. When you're just looking for some xp on normal mobs, do you sit around planning for hours?

I log in, join a team and just play. That team may or may not have a positioner. If the team does have a positioner, I don't boss him around, the positioner is free to do what he wants. He might choose to throw mobs around the fire iop. He won't necessarily help you, there are 5 others. Assuming that a positioner will always be present and always helping you is unrealistic. You can't build a character based on this. That's a duo, and the OP isn't asking for a duo.

Some mobs have more lock, some have less lock, that's the gamble you take when you choose dodge. You sure the ones with 300+ locks weren't bosses? We've already established this is useless for bosses. But yeah some of the normal mobs have 200, 250 lock. I'd suggest letting your team mates take care of those and focussing on the ones you can dodge. You'll never fight a group of mobs only with the big fat ones that have lock.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-01-05
posté October 17, 2013, 07:15:43 | #24
In a battle I don't have to plan for it does not matter what build I have. I am building for those battles where it does matter. In those I do not want to lose a lot of damage just because I wanted to be more flexible in some meaningless xp grinds vs monsters I can beat in my sleep.

Also, the gamble is exactly the problem. Gambles in strategy games are a bad, bad thing. That is exactly the lesson I am trying to teach here
Why take it when you can build a better char which on top of that does not have to taky any gamble?

Also, if the main DD has to be so picky about whom to attack you got a problem.


This post has been edited by Shaleigh1 - October 17, 2013, 07:16:20.
Soft Crackler * Member Since 2013-03-01
posté October 17, 2013, 09:33:07 | #25

Quote (Shaleigh1 @ 17 October 2013 07:15) *
Also, the gamble is exactly the problem. Gambles in strategy games are a bad, bad thing.

ECAFLIPS WOWOWOWOOWOOOOOOOOOO



(no i don't know what i'm doing)


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-10-12
posté October 17, 2013, 09:34:52 | #26
1 MP
1 AP
1 Range
22 Crits

Using these stats and proper (not too difficult to get gear) - an enu can get +3 range, 600% damage (after 4 steps), 300 PP (after gold mining), 40 crits, and 60% air res 100+% earth/water/fire res.

Role -

Ranged Damage dealer. Avoid CC - you are not a tank. Try to take 4 steps before each turn - this greatly increases damage especially w/ the high crit rate.

Spells to lvl-

Deadly Nightspade (main attack)
Killer Spade (throws in when necessary)
Shovel Shaker (against 2 at once)

Specialties in Order-

[I lvl the first two together]
Dhrellzerker (9)
Phone a Fhrend (9)

Geology (5)
Treasure Tracker (20)

Mine Mover (20)
Geology (10)

Not Dead Yet (20)
Faking It (20)


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté October 17, 2013, 17:30:23 | #27

Quote (Shaleigh1 @ 17 October 2013 07:15) *
In a battle I don't have to plan for it does not matter what build I have. I am building for those battles where it does matter. In those I do not want to lose a lot of damage just because I wanted to be more flexible in some meaningless xp grinds vs monsters I can beat in my sleep. .
Lol I know some people who would say the opposite. Why would you make build a character around only 1 fight a week?

And yeah, you hate ecaflips, we get it.


Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2005-08-02
posté October 17, 2013, 18:08:18 | #28

Quote (Noobility @ 16 October 2013 10:41) *
Before = you had to waste a turn not attacking. Now = you can attack, use drhellzerker, no turn lost. Big difference.

A carefully planned boss battle is an exception. When you're just looking for some xp on normal mobs, do you sit around planning for hours?

I log in, join a team and just play. That team may or may not have a positioner. If the team does have a positioner, I don't boss him around, the positioner is free to do what he wants. He might choose to throw mobs around the fire iop. He won't necessarily help you, there are 5 others. Assuming that a positioner will always be present and always helping you is unrealistic. You can't build a character based on this. That's a duo, and the OP isn't asking for a duo.

Some mobs have more lock, some have less lock, that's the gamble you take when you choose dodge. You sure the ones with 300+ locks weren't bosses? We've already established this is useless for bosses. But yeah some of the normal mobs have 200, 250 lock. I'd suggest letting your team mates take care of those and focussing on the ones you can dodge. You'll never fight a group of mobs only with the big fat ones that have lock.
This is pretty much exactly why I finally made my enutrof earth /fire and I don't regret that decision for a second. Not transforming is just way too good in some fights, it's a very liberating experience not to pray for a panda to come save me from my predicament (even that would not save me from zwombbits honestly). As to losing damage I currently have 590% earth and 580% fire pre combat without any food or prospecting candy so I really can't complain on that front either (I'm fairly sure this could get to 600 honestly). I encourage anyone who's considering it to try hybridizing, it's just way more fun and I promise your wp cost won't be unmanageable. I sure wish I had tried sooner.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-01-05
posté October 23, 2013, 16:18:40 | #29

Quote (Noobility @ 17 October 2013 17:30) *

Quote (Shaleigh1 @ 17 October 2013 07:15) *
In a battle I don't have to plan for it does not matter what build I have. I am building for those battles where it does matter. In those I do not want to lose a lot of damage just because I wanted to be more flexible in some meaningless xp grinds vs monsters I can beat in my sleep. .
Lol I know some people who would say the opposite. Why would you make build a character around only 1 fight a week?

And yeah, you hate ecaflips, we get it.


No need to be rude

So why would one build an entire toon around battles that one is going to win easily anyway? I am not building for one battle, I am building for the important battles. That is usually a lot more than one per week especially now with a lot of wabbit bosses being pretty tough to beat.

Those are the battles that count too, so even if it was 1 per week it'd be worth it. Since if you screw up your build for those battles you won't get the end game gear you need and a vicious cycle ensues.

Anyone who designs ones character around the mindless 1 click spam grind when farming xp versus some random mob is weird and I have to say I never actually met such a person.

@Everat, hybrids do not lose a lot of damage anymore versus mono builds that is true and makes them very, very viable (even though a pure earth Enu still exceeds those 600% easily pre combat).

I just don't see the benefits for a Zerker based earth Enu. The transformation out of Zerker still is too rssource consuming in my opinion to make it worth it. With basically guaranteed backstab and a lot of bonus buff damage on pure earth Zerkers you even slice through 500% res mobs as if it were butter.

On a water Enu that is a whole other story imo. I am playing a water/fire hybrid there and am loving it. Because here fire actually fills in where water is weak. So mosty aoe.

Well, I might give an earth/fire hybrid a spin one day. It isn't entirely un-intriguing I gotta say

The dodge spec however I consider a waste of ressources.


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté November 08, 2013, 02:35:19 | #30
Say that to people who make hybrid classes or less used classes. Not everyone is looking to make a character based solely on efficiently killing bosses. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, you've already stated your disdain for hybrid enus, no doubt anything that isn't min maxed for killing bosses you disapprove of.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-01-05
posté November 11, 2013, 16:40:17 | #31
I actually own a lvl133 hybrid Enu and I have recently been arguing on these very forums that hybrids as of now are usually stronger than mono element builds. You might want to read more properly instead of throwing accusations around.

The rest of your argument kind of crumbles with that assumption being wrong.

I am saying nothing of the sort that I only take min/maxed toons for bosses, I am saying that I want to take the best builds for the battles that are actually tough to win. That can be a mono build in some cases, a hybrid in others. That can be against a boss or against a full mob of guawds in their dungeon.

The only thing I argued for here is that I do not particularly see the advantages of an earth/fire Enu (and even that I retracted quite a bit and admitted I find the idea at least intriguing, which of course you completely ignored) or a dodge build.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-12-14
posté November 11, 2013, 18:38:37 | #32

Quote (Shaleigh1 @ 23 October 2013 16:18) *

Quote (Noobility @ 17 October 2013 17:30) *

Quote (Shaleigh1 @ 17 October 2013 07:15) *
In a battle I don't have to plan for it does not matter what build I have. I am building for those battles where it does matter. In those I do not want to lose a lot of damage just because I wanted to be more flexible in some meaningless xp grinds vs monsters I can beat in my sleep. .
Lol I know some people who would say the opposite. Why would you make build a character around only 1 fight a week?

And yeah, you hate ecaflips, we get it.


No need to be rude

So why would one build an entire toon around battles that one is going to win easily anyway? I am not building for one battle, I am building for the important battles. That is usually a lot more than one per week especially now with a lot of wabbit bosses being pretty tough to beat.

Those are the battles that count too, so even if it was 1 per week it'd be worth it. Since if you screw up your build for those battles you won't get the end game gear you need and a vicious cycle ensues.

Anyone who designs ones character around the mindless 1 click spam grind when farming xp versus some random mob is weird and I have to say I never actually met such a person.

@Everat, hybrids do not lose a lot of damage anymore versus mono builds that is true and makes them very, very viable (even though a pure earth Enu still exceeds those 600% easily pre combat).

I just don't see the benefits for a Zerker based earth Enu. The transformation out of Zerker still is too rssource consuming in my opinion to make it worth it. With basically guaranteed backstab and a lot of bonus buff damage on pure earth Zerkers you even slice through 500% res mobs as if it were butter.

On a water Enu that is a whole other story imo. I am playing a water/fire hybrid there and am loving it. Because here fire actually fills in where water is weak. So mosty aoe.

Well, I might give an earth/fire hybrid a spin one day. It isn't entirely un-intriguing I gotta say

The dodge spec however I consider a waste of ressources.

I wouldn't say untransforming is very resource consuming at all, WP just has to be managed a little bit for a hybrid (non-fire/water). Also, building around farming mobs isn't a bad idea because it effectively makes your farm much quicker and more efficient, and you can have other characters for specific boss encounters.

That being said, I run a fire/earth Enutrof myself and don't find myself having an issue with such a trade-off. The spells I've taken are meteor, fusion, deadly nightspade, and shovel shaker. In fights that I know are going to end within 5-6 turns, which is the vast majority of them, I detransform every turn that I do transform because WP isn't being spent on anything else other than prime of life. In longer fights, I try to anticipate a turn in advance when I will need fire spells, -MP from earth spells, and/or the drheller's abilities and detransform accordingly. Even in very long fights, I've never really felt that WP has been a limitation. Fire/earth as an Enutrof is incredibly flexible with meteor for long-range aoe, fusion for long-range single target, deadly nightspade for single-target burst damage or very long range -MP, or shovel range for situational damage on two targets or inflicting -MP to multiple targets. I often find myself using mostly fire spells when enemies are group or far away then transforming later in the fight and sometimes even using fire spells then transforming mid-turn.

As for specific bosses, Magmog is actually better as fire/earth due to having massive fire resistance despite fire spells not being useful there, meteor and deadly nightspade are both very nice to have in Dragon Pig, the other three UBs usually die within six turns, and swapping elements and inflicting -MP is quite effective against the first two wabbit island bosses. As for the other three wabbit island bosses, Enutrofs in general are pretty effective at deactivating their invulnerabilities and should probably be delegated to that role, so element build there isn't too relevant aside from taking out the other mobs quickly.


Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2012-01-06
posté November 12, 2013, 05:16:38 | #33
I've tried a fire/earth enu (60% fire and 40% earth dmg ratio) is not bad especially as long as you watch the wp usage on long battle 6+ turns but the same can be said about mono earth zerk. I wont go into the benefits of fire/water/earth enus comparison since there are already other threads on those.
Instead the the options available of either hybird/multi build vs mono. Multi element provides better use of hitting a mobs weakest element. Looking at the new mobs on wabbit island. Most mobs there already have a base of 150+ resist to each element while a specialize element exceeds 300+ resist. So looking at two options, hybrid and mono(earth). It would be easier for hybrid to fight a specialized mob with a weaker element. Unless you can raise your mono element to effectively high dmg to offset the dmg compared to a hybrid.

But then equipment becomes a problem, because a mono element can just focus on one element on a piece of equip while a multi/hybrid are limited to equip that caters to both his elements not to mention those runes(bad idea devs). At this point I have only noticed about 50%-70% elemental dmg difference between a mono and hybrid builds at lvl 140. (to clarify mono being the 50%-70% higher dmg than hybrid). These numbers are just estimates from using current gear with 1 relic in both builds. If someone can provide concrete numbers and calculations that would be great. This also doesn't take into consideration of resists a hybrid has over a multi toon.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-01-05
posté November 12, 2013, 09:53:23 | #34
@Pimento that is mostly the reasoning why I consider it to be at least intriguing to try this one day, but I still think the synergy between fire and water is better in terms of what you are trying to achieve there.

Especially since you kind of seem to downplay the WP waste. Prime of Life is kind of essential to bring out the full potential of an earth Zerker and having to use 1 per turn for transforming and 1 per turn for PoL seems like a bad plan so you gotta make cuts on one end.

Btw an end game Zerker has 5 range on its main attack plus enough MP to cross the entire battlefield back and forth so usually range really is not an issue.