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[Suggestions for Sram Revamp] By the community
Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2010-11-29
posté June 13, 2013, 19:52:26 | #1
[Suggestions for Sram Revamp] By the community Hi brothers

This thread have been created to share thoughts.

I personally want to suggest to ankama:


  • SHOTS, Combo , combo!

This mechanic works with "Shots" , you can get points depending on the spell you use, every spell increase shots.
For example, 1-2 AP spells add 1 Shots, 3-4 AP spells add 2 Shots, 5-6 AP spells doesn't add Shots but gain buff from them.
These Shots are like Sac's Angrr, you can get max 7 Shots, and they give you 10% Damage from behind each, when you have 7 Shots you can keep them or trigger them with a 5-6 AP spell.
When you trigger your Shots, your spells cost 1 AP less than normal per every Shot triggered, for example: You have 5 Shots, you trigger them, the next 5 spells cost 1 ap less.

There is an image of the bar to count Shots:



These Shots oblige Srams to learn new power combos!

NB: Every branch can increase Shots, and they doesn't destroy the Shadowy Cloak and Hemorrhage mechanic.

This spell will replace Shadow Master.



  • SHADOW FORM
This form comes from Master Stabber passive, after 3 consecutive hits from back you enter in the Shadow Form, this Form adds: + 50% Damage, + 10% CH, +10% to Sram Reflex.
It end if you don't hit from back.
It's not difficult to understand, this is an image.



NB:
Your items and skin become dark, this image is made with paint, i'm sure Devs can do a lot about this effect.
This status is instead of Stabber state, you will gain normally +40% Damage from behind as Master Stabber say.

That's all.
Please share your thoughts togheter , Grou will read this thread.
All feedback are accepted


~ Old Kahiiji


This post has been edited by GJTora - June 14, 2013, 08:00:47.
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté June 13, 2013, 20:19:56 | #2
Interesting suggestion but I'm afraid Srams need a lot more changes and a revamp in some spells and abilities.


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2010-11-29
posté June 13, 2013, 20:48:38 | #3
Yes of course, I'm trying to work on them, but it's really difficult work on a class.

~ Old Kahiiji


Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2008-05-07
posté June 13, 2013, 21:26:53 | #4
That's a nice idea there, but maybe...just maybe...a lot lot lot overpowered?
7 charges is so quick to attain, i mean, you can get that in two turns (and what about mp spells? do they give charges too?), so basically the third turn you trigger your buff alright, with 10 AP you can get a 5AP+two 3AP reduced with still an AP left (diversion for sure), and this leaves you five stacks for the next turn.
4th turn, still 5 charges, 10 AP, let's rock double ultimate fire spell or a five open veins combo. That's just too much for a two turn charge.

As for the shadow mode, way over the edge combined with invisibility, i mean the bonuses are not scaling at all, and even a lvl 1 can obtain it easily (i know you want the passive maxed, but still, say level 20 then) and rock on. With this spell, for 3 backstabs you get total 90% damage (40 backstab but still, Srams dont bother with it), 10% CH ( that's lots'o'power late in the game) and +20% to Reflex. So you just get this by using your cute 1mp spell then two hits, and with Reflex lvl 1 you get 21% dodge, if maxed 40%, how insane is this?

I like the idea of changing things, there's quite a ruckus on the french forum about it (i'm making some myself there), i'll think about it because that's interesting, but right now i can't think of a way to not make this overpowered.

Plowbat


The Sinister Six * Member Since 2012-01-04
posté June 13, 2013, 21:39:45 | #5
My suggestions are pretty bad if I'd say so myself but any suggestion is good suggestion.

Fire Branch:
Pretty alright branch out of the other 2, maybe some changes in things could be made. Maybe Hemorrhage being a state that doesn't remove itself after one turn of no stabbing. If I stab someone with a scythe the size of my body then I'd expect it to last a bit longer than one turn. Since Srams can see the % of enemy's HP then probably give another spell or two an effect that procs after a %HP marker is hit. Out of 15 moves, why only program one spell with a decent effect to use this gimmick? Change Execution to cost a WP because of how strong it hits when Hemorrhage is stacked beyond 50 and also traps.

Water Branch:
Decent compared to the Fire and Air branch that Srams use. Change around the HP regain from one of those moves and probably put an WP on one of the spells, probably the MP one since it can be spammed. Also add in a trap

Air Branch:
Out of the other two branchs, it's okay. Utilizes Invisible with its spells but maybe a trap or two that uses up WP could probably be replaced with one of the spells in here

Specialities:
Sram Revamp when Ankama?

Invisible:
Balanced enough already. Probably change how Perception is dropped and maybe certain spells not dropping Perception at all

Shadow Trap:
Not so sure about this spell at all, maybe make it better or replace it with something else. Less WP usage

Scram:
Fits with the name since it gives you MP to run away from someone, can't really give it anything else like Dodge since it's just be Srams version of Prime of Life. Probably extra Perception when Invisible

Double:
10/10 specialty doesn't really need to be changed but some people feel that it should so maybe make it so that Double gets the same AP/MP the Sram has like with Masqueraider's Dopple BUT at the end of its turn, it pops

Diversion:
9/10 almost perfected make it so that it can disarm the Shadow Trap

Sram to the Bone:
Since certain classes get a Stat to damage% for better hybriding option then Sram should as well. 30% of Perception is added into Damage and include in some gear with Perception on it. Why is the highest equipment piece with Perception some boots that we probably can't get anymore?

Sram Reflex:
It's alright

Master Stabber:
Not much to be changed but probably an extra Hemorrhage stack or two when attacking from the back would be amazing

Look Around You:
Diversion ripoff should be replaced not useful at all doesn't even cost an ap to use totally random too luckbased of a skill to be used by Srams not needed.

Shadow Master:
If a Sram invested in this spell is a Shadow Master then they should get benefits like a Shadow Master. Extra MP or two when Invisible, nonair spells don't trigger the reveal of Sram, probably add Perception somewhere into this or doesn't reveal Sram when hit

Sram Revamp soon, fellow Srams!


This post has been edited by TargetMePlz - June 14, 2013, 02:27:16.
Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2008-05-07
posté June 13, 2013, 22:30:45 | #6
anyone who is interested and knows a little french should see the according forum, there are very advanced revamp suggestions. I'll link you two PDF documents, both created by Sram players (one is mine).
We use the same basis as Grou, say a board per spell, with cost, range, AoE, line of sight y/n, upgradable range y/n, conditions, then the normal and crit effects with base damage, scale and total.
For the support spells it's the same, big board with one descritpion per ability level (cost, range, everything).
Well see for yourselves :
Click here
and mine (currently revising it so it's not perfectly matching to what i have right now) : Click here

I'm currently making a google doc format, easier to update, but not complete right now, i still didn't fill the supports : Click here

Plowbat


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2010-11-29
posté June 13, 2013, 23:49:58 | #7

Quote
- That's a nice idea there, but maybe...just maybe...a lot lot lot overpowered? - 7 charges is so quick to attain- what about mp spells? do they give charges too?

  • I watched other classes and I noticed that many classes get (or will get) +150% Damage bonus like Iop, Cra, Sadida, Xelor, Sacrier, Masqueraider, Rogue, Enu.
They get it in different ways, but they get it and it's Damage, not Damage from behind..
Damage from behind work only if you cast it on the back, and it's not always easy to get back, like enemies in the corners.
And you can get +40%Damfrombehind from Master Stabber, +70%Damfrombehind , +50%Damage, for a total of 110% Damagefrombehind and 50% Damage when you are in Shadow Form and have 7 Shots.
It's not so overpowered, if you will spend APs or MPs or Luck to get the back of your target, remember that Shadow Form end if you don't hit your enemy from back, many times Look around you doesn't work.
  • 7 charges are quick yeah, but the bonus that you get from then is not so overpowered, remember we are Damage Dealer, people used to forget our role because of our gamestyle.

  • MP spells doesn't give any Shots

Yes, the +20% Reflex is OP, what do you think of +10% ?
It seems easy to keep the Shadow Form, but in PvP (Ankama is aiming on this) is not so easy and PvE.. You need 30% Reflex because you doesn't have any +%Resists or +%HP..
Anyway I'll read your Pdf

NB: There are Enus that deal 2000+ close range damage, Iops that deal 1000+ in AoE, Osas with 1400+ in mid range, Xelors that deal 1200+ in AoE or 1500+ in Single Target with ranged spells and us, melee combat players that deal 1100+ if you dodge your enemy from front and spam double trauma. We are the melee fighters at greater risk of death if you don't play in Invisible mode, maybe we can make a condition to Shadow Form, not Invisible?

~ Old Kahiiji


This post has been edited by GJTora - June 13, 2013, 23:51:00.
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté June 14, 2013, 00:48:07 | #8
I love the aspect of Srams but in Wakfu all the three branches look so similar Back in the beta they used to have better divided roles between the branches.

I love the idea of a poison related branch (old water branch) and a trap based branch.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-01-28
posté June 14, 2013, 03:41:02 | #9
Guys, since I know that Ankama probably won't notice this, just think of this as a dream.

Shadow Trap
PART 1 Revamp. Cost = 6 AP at lvl 0 and 4 AP at max. Range same as before. When an enemy steps on it they gain the state Shadowed. When in this state, the person who stepped on the trap can't move or do anything. They automatically skip their turn every time it comes around and they're in this state, BUT! here's the handy ol' balance. When in this state a dupe of the victim is created in the place they were in before they stepped on the trap. So if you stepped 3 spaces onto the trap your dupe is made right where you were 3 steps ago. The dupe has a unique moveset and has 5% of the victim's HP and 4 AP and 2 MP. The Victim suffers all damage and heals the dupe takes. The spells are: Shadow Charge: 2 AP 1 Range. It does 1 Damage per 2 levels of the Shadowed victim's level. Shadow Splash: 2 AP 2-4 Range. It deals 1 Damage per 2 levels of the Shadowed victim's level and has a 2 big square radius (Iop's Wrath AoE basically). It also has 50% to remove 1 MP from every target. The last spell is Shadow Steal: This is a very interesting one. It costs all 3 AP and uses up the Shadowed state. In return here's what it does. You may only use on your own team. You give them a -100% damage debuff and +10% heal res, and take control of their character immediately. You can do whatever with them. Once your turn as them ends, then they will get to take their turn as normal, and the dupe disappears. Your character is now free.

What'd you think? Overpowered? Underpowered? Got any good ideas? Gimmie a review on this real quick. Won't take time. But seriously, do pay attention to the stuff above too.


This post has been edited by Marbowser - June 14, 2013, 22:08:39.
Reason for edit : Few Slight Errors... Why are your reading this? Go away! This is top secret! Back, I said, back!!
Short Strich * Member Since 2012-05-24
posté June 14, 2013, 03:51:19 | #10
I will only give my two cents on the elements I have done. Fire and Air.

Initial feelings about fire: Fire seems to be in pretty good condition I can't really see a lot of issues with it save a few small concerns.

Torment: Not a very useful spell for most builds. I would either replace it or give it the ability to stack hemm.

Hemm stacking: I feel like it doesn't do enough damage, and it takes more time to stack hemm than use burst damage like execution. I would either raise the damage per stack or per x stacks or make hemm easier to stack.

Initial feelings about air: Air is supposed to be the stealthy-strategic branch of the sram. Instead, builds are now made in order for it to do a lot of damage as opposed to capitalize on invisibility. That doesn't work because fire is the DD element for srams and could do their job better. At the moment, invisibility is somewhat balanced but requires some fine tuning in certain target areas.

Spells: all balanced, I cannot see an issue with any of them.

Invisibility: Where to begin. First off, -50% damage is a bit much but I see why it could seem necessary. I would make it -30% damage with an increase of 6% per player in battle. This way the damage reduction isn't crippling in a 1v1 but at the same time is still undesireable


Perception revamp:
According to the wiki here is how it currently works
- minus 6 perception per square moved
- minus 6 perception per AP used
- minus 20 perception per turn

That is excessive, especially since there is not a single peice of gear that adds perception past level 60. Lets say we have a sram who maxed sram to the bone and statted 100 perception and who has a 10AP air build.
Turn 1
- Invisibility (-2 AP) Total Perc: 500
- Guile 4 squares (-24 perc) 476
- Forceful blow + Tricky blow 428
(-18 perc + -24 perc + -6 perc (moved back 1 square) = -48perc)

End turn 1 308
(-20 for end of turn and -100 for first turn invisi bonus)

Turn 2
- move 3 squares (-18 perc) 290
- Double Forceful + tricky (-60 perc) 230
- move 1 square (-6 perc) 224

End turn 2 (-20 perc) 204

As you can see, you wont make it past turn 3 because you lose an average of 104 perc per turn after the first.

The solution is simpler than you think and there are multiples of them.

1) All you need to do is make the first turn perception bonus stay the same instead of reducing it by 100 after the first turn. This will allow srams to stay invisible and active for 3 turns.


2) Another way of balancing perc would be to not subtract perc per movement, as it is a big offender when guile is used. Getting rid of the guile damage decrease while invisible would also help seeing as they would already have suffered a significant damage decrease

3) Yet a 3rd way of balancing the perc issue would be to half the amount of perc used per AP and cell movement. Its a pretty simple solution.

I am well aware of the sram trap and that would be useful for prolonging it past 3 turns, however it shouldn't be a necessity to use if you want to be a half-decent invisi sram. I would also add more effects to the sram trap to make it useful on its own, and not just for invisibility. One of those effects could be adding 1MP when stepped on or adding +x hemorrhage when an enemy steps on it.

If you are really worried about inactive srams, make it more beneficial to act while invisible. One way to do this would be to subtract perc at the end of the turn per AP/MP not used instead of a general -20 perc per turn. So if you have a 10/5 build, you lose 2 perc per unused point, which gives a total of -30perc. Theoretically speaking, one would want to lose 48 perc and do a good amount of damage as opposed to lose 30 perc and do nothing.

Furthermore, some of the ways to reveal invisible people should be fixed. For example, if an eca gets a heal card (I do not know much about ecas), it reveals any invisible sram on the field. That is frustrating beyond all belief. Please make it so enemy-healing does not reveal where invisible srams are.

Lastly, add gear with perception. It is relatively concerning that perception seems to be a lost mechanic after a certain level because it reflects a lack of caring about a specific issue. Maybe you're planning to add this with the PvP gear and that would be great.

Yeah, so these would be possible solutions. As much as I would love to make a detailed suggestion about this I do not have the time at the moment. Maybe later.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-01-28
posté June 14, 2013, 04:16:45 | #11
Shadow Trap
Part 2
Ok, earlier I covered what would happen if you stepped on the new shadow trap as an enemy. Now I will cover what you will gain from stepping on it as an ally ( NOT THE SRAM ).
You will gain a state called Darkened. You will instantly become invisible to the other team. Now here's where it gets fun. You gain new spells along with your own (btw doing damage in this state doesn't reveal you, but it only lasts a turn). Puppet Master: 2 AP 9 Range. You instantly take control of the target. (Can't be an enemy). You then take control of their character. They have a -50% damage debuff during this. After this spell finishes the character teleports back to where they started if possible. This takes up the rest of your turn. Shadow Temptation: 3 AP 5 Range (No LoS needed). All enemies look at the spot pointed out. Armageddon: 6 AP 3 MP, 0 Range. This deals 2 times your level in fire damage, then water damage, then earth damage, then air damage to all enemies. You are then instantly killed. 5% to do double damage instead of regular, but the enemies get a +25% damage buff afterwards. ==========================================================================
Before you read this, check out my previous 2 parts to the new shadow trap idea please. Otherwise, enjoy the below!
Shadow Trap
Part 3
Now this is what happens if the Sram steps on his own new Shadow Trap. He gains the state Shadow Behemoth which is a buff for the entire battle. He gains a permanent +15% backstab damage and +1 WP (This effect can't be gained more than once). He gains 2 new spells for the rest of the battle as well. Black Hole: 6 AP and 5 Range. This is once per battle and places a 1 circle big (Old Cage of Blood AoE) black hole. It doesn't do anything for 1 turn, and then after that if anyone somehow ends up within the AoE of that... they instantly get sucked in and spat out somewhere random on the board. They also suffer 1/2 of their own level neutral damage for every cell they traveled. Has a 1% to instantly kill instead of spitting back out. Chaos: 6 AP 1 WP (Once per battle) All living players on the board instantly become invisible to everyone. Allies included. Being damaged or locked doesn't reveal you. This lasts 3 turns, and then everybody becomes visible again.

What did you think? OP? Underpowered? Hilarious? Idiotic? Made of Cheese? Tell me. And pay attention to those other poor folks too.


This post has been edited by Marbowser - June 14, 2013, 22:15:33.
Reason for edit : What you lookin' at, fool? This is TOP SECRET. You're not allowed past this point. You Shall Not Pass... fine, read on. Not like I would care or anything...
Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2010-11-29
posté June 14, 2013, 23:33:04 | #12
People is now saying:

 


Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2008-05-07
posté June 15, 2013, 15:47:43 | #13
There is a reason behind the slowpoke : invisibility is currently a huge strain on the character's abilities and specs, and is quite frustrating to play. So basically no one wants to pay 60 levels to be invisible to get locked with 95% dodge in the back.

But now that people start talking about revamping it in a serious way, they suddenly remember that Srams have those 3-4 supports they absolutely never heard about before.


Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2009-05-02
posté June 15, 2013, 16:28:30 | #14

Quote (TargetMePlz @ 13 June 2013 21:39) *
My suggestions are pretty bad if I'd say so myself but any suggestion is good suggestion.

Fire Branch:
Pretty alright branch out of the other 2, maybe some changes in things could be made. Maybe Hemorrhage being a state that doesn't remove itself after one turn of no stabbing. If I stab someone with a scythe the size of my body then I'd expect it to last a bit longer than one turn. Since Srams can see the % of enemy's HP then probably give another spell or two an effect that procs after a %HP marker is hit. Out of 15 moves, why only program one spell with a decent effect to use this gimmick? Change Execution to cost a WP because of how strong it hits when Hemorrhage is stacked beyond 50 and also traps.

Water Branch:
Decent compared to the Fire and Air branch that Srams use. Change around the HP regain from one of those moves and probably put an WP on one of the spells, probably the MP one since it can be spammed. Also add in a trap

Air Branch:
Out of the other two branchs, it's okay. Utilizes Invisible with its spells but maybe a trap or two that uses up WP could probably be replaced with one of the spells in here

Specialities:
Sram Revamp when Ankama?

Invisible:
Balanced enough already. Probably change how Perception is dropped and maybe certain spells not dropping Perception at all

Shadow Trap:
Not so sure about this spell at all, maybe make it better or replace it with something else. Less WP usage

Scram:
Fits with the name since it gives you MP to run away from someone, can't really give it anything else like Dodge since it's just be Srams version of Prime of Life. Probably extra Perception when Invisible

Double:
10/10 specialty doesn't really need to be changed but some people feel that it should so maybe make it so that Double gets the same AP/MP the Sram has like with Masqueraider's Dopple BUT at the end of its turn, it pops

Diversion:
9/10 almost perfected make it so that it can disarm the Shadow Trap

Sram to the Bone:
Since certain classes get a Stat to damage% for better hybriding option then Sram should as well. 30% of Perception is added into Damage and include in some gear with Perception on it. Why is the highest equipment piece with Perception some boots that we probably can't get anymore?

Sram Reflex:
It's alright

Master Stabber:
Not much to be changed but probably an extra Hemorrhage stack or two when attacking from the back would be amazing

Look Around You:
Diversion ripoff should be replaced not useful at all doesn't even cost an ap to use totally random too luckbased of a skill to be used by Srams not needed.

Shadow Master:
If a Sram invested in this spell is a Shadow Master then they should get benefits like a Shadow Master. Extra MP or two when Invisible, nonair spells don't trigger the reveal of Sram, probably add Perception somewhere into this or doesn't reveal Sram when hit

Sram Revamp soon, fellow Srams!
Making some sram spells like Execution use Wp is not a good idea since we already use alot of Wp in Invisibility, Scram, double...


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2010-11-29
posté June 15, 2013, 16:41:26 | #15

Quote
Making some sram spells like Execution use Wp is not a good idea since we already use alot of Wp in Invisibility, Scram, double...
This...


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2012-02-20
posté June 18, 2013, 04:47:20 | #16
I'd like to see some way to track perception without having to open my character sheet.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2011-07-11
posté July 14, 2013, 05:14:09 | #17
I only have one sugestion: Make a skill that makes you invisible that works.


Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2013-07-14
posté July 16, 2013, 12:30:15 | #18
Invisibility interaction with Air should be removed. Binding invis interaction with Air made it way less universal. Bonus damage on hit when go out of invis. More cell and space control with Air. Make Guile does damage scale with how far it travel to make the use of Fear and MP. Let's the player choose to move for more damage, or use the spell twice.

Remove trap (no use for it. Rogue already filled out the trap master role). Change "double" into "shadow". Sram can switch place with his shadow and can manually make his shadow explode and damaging 3x3 cell (this replaces trap, and also attack of double). All this stuff don't even compare to how ridiculous Air Dragon Osa is...


This post has been edited by shunwukon - July 16, 2013, 12:41:27.
Short Strich * Member Since 2012-01-18
posté July 19, 2013, 11:36:10 | #19
I want new attack animations, like wth litterally half of srams abilities are all just the same animation with a different color based on element. I want fire branches damage to be BASED on hemorrage not just hitting a larger execute because you have stacks of hemorrage, make it kinda like air sadi where your hemo damage stacks up really fast and does larger damage and perhaps lower the execute bonus from it. because at the moment air and fire branches feel too similar to me. also if it's possible, make it so your hemo damage tick can crit, that would be great.


This post has been edited by Alocispep - July 19, 2013, 11:37:42.
Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté July 22, 2013, 10:50:20 | #20

Quote (Alocispep @ 19 July 2013 11:36) *
I want new attack animations, like wth litterally half of srams abilities are all just the same animation with a different color based on element.
Tell that to Cras. Xelors and Iops