Back to forum.wakfu.com

No flash

Revamp Pandawa
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté January 06, 2014, 07:41:24 | #41
Pandas used to have 2 separate fighting styles depending on whether they were drunk or not. Would be nice to see that again.


Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2011-08-15
posté January 06, 2014, 14:11:19 | #42

Quote (camapheus @ 06 January 2014 03:18) *
Werent these changes rejected?

Yes.


Quote
Hi Given your feedback it seems that I have failed to meet your expectations and I misunderstood your priorities. It seems difficult, within the time allotted to me, to be able to improve things so drastically that what you expect. So I asked for more time to work on Pandas. Specifically, the Pandas will not be reviewed in the next patch, and once finished Feca (improvement and integration into play) I'll get back to you to understand your expectations and respond more appropriately. I let the doc available for you to have a basis for comparison, you can read it and give me feedback on the things that you liked, but know that it will be reworked in its entirety . I ask you to make appropriate returns and avoid trolls nonprofit that will help you or me ^ ^. Grou



Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté January 06, 2014, 14:45:24 | #43

Quote (Tropical-Ace @ 06 January 2014 14:11) *

Quote
Hi Given your feedback it seems that I have failed to meet your expectations and I misunderstood your priorities. It seems difficult, within the time allotted to me, to be able to improve things so drastically that what you expect. So I asked for more time to work on Pandas. Specifically, the Pandas will not be reviewed in the next patch, and once finished Feca (improvement and integration into play) I'll get back to you to understand your expectations and respond more appropriately. I let the doc available for you to have a basis for comparison, you can read it and give me feedback on the things that you liked, but know that it will be reworked in its entirety . I ask you to make appropriate returns and avoid trolls nonprofit that will help you or me ^ ^. Grou
I hardly doubt they will listen to us. Especially that i've already made suggestion in suggestion section for the pandawa revamp some time ago but it seems it wasn't even read by Grou/Sabi/Troyle as i see nothing has been ever taken from it.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-03-15
posté January 06, 2014, 17:28:39 | #44
I think instead of calling paying customers trolls he should try to do better revamps.


Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2012-03-14
posté January 06, 2014, 17:58:55 | #45

Quote (Neneko88 @ 06 January 2014 17:28) *
I think instead of calling paying customers trolls he should try to do better revamps.
He's not calling us trolls but asking ppl not to make troll posts. There's a lot of that all around the internet, so take it easy


Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 06 January 2014 14:45) *
I hardly doubt they will listen to us. Especially that i've already made suggestion in suggestion section for the pandawa revamp some time ago but it seems it wasn't even read by Grou/Sabi/Troyle as i see nothing has been ever taken from it.
Logically they won't accept every idea the players have. They must think in what fits the most with the concept of the class and the role they want it to be, plus if players give ideas, it doesnt mean they are forced to carry them out


This post has been edited by camapheus - January 06, 2014, 17:59:45.
Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2011-08-15
posté January 06, 2014, 19:02:05 | #46

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 06 January 2014 14:45) *

Quote (Tropical-Ace @ 06 January 2014 14:11) *

Quote
Hi Given your feedback it seems that I have failed to meet your expectations and I misunderstood your priorities. It seems difficult, within the time allotted to me, to be able to improve things so drastically that what you expect. So I asked for more time to work on Pandas. Specifically, the Pandas will not be reviewed in the next patch, and once finished Feca (improvement and integration into play) I'll get back to you to understand your expectations and respond more appropriately. I let the doc available for you to have a basis for comparison, you can read it and give me feedback on the things that you liked, but know that it will be reworked in its entirety . I ask you to make appropriate returns and avoid trolls nonprofit that will help you or me ^ ^. Grou
I hardly doubt they will listen to us. Especially that i've already made suggestion in suggestion section for the pandawa revamp some time ago but it seems it wasn't even read by Grou/Sabi/Troyle as i see nothing has been ever taken from it.

This is something I learned with the Dofus dev team over my two years of being with the Zenith (The Dofus version of the Wakfu Heralds)It's that it's really hard to get the dev teams to base their changes off of player's suggestions.

Ankama is a privately run company with an artistic view that they are often unwilling to change, though that may be a far stretch from what Wakfu's Devs are like.

It may be easy to change their minds about proposals to the game, but in terms of getting them to adapt suggestions is pretty rare. As an example I made a list of Dofus changes that have made it into the game via suggestions from the Official English Forums, the list has less than 20 entries.


Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2012-06-07
posté January 12, 2014, 18:45:46 | #47

Quote (Sabi @ 22 December 2013 06:08) *
Hi everyone,

I am working on a translation for you guys next week.

Still no english version of the pdf?


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté January 12, 2014, 20:08:29 | #48

Quote (ZioWilli @ 12 January 2014 18:45) *

Quote (Sabi @ 22 December 2013 06:08) *
Hi everyone,

I am working on a translation for you guys next week.

Still no english version of the pdf?

Ankama scraped the original changes and are going to try again it seems. No point in translating a file that will not be used.


Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2012-03-14
posté January 12, 2014, 20:31:14 | #49
I'd like to see an official translation, so we could point out what we like /dislike about the proposal of the pdf xD

Anyways I was thinking... it seems that they wanna make the pandas able to develop certain sinergy among their branches in order to be multielement. So I think it'd be good if they make the pandas able to use their barrel in more than one way for each element.

Currently the earth branch is the only one that lets you cast spells while carrying the barrel, the water branch is the only one that lets you cast spells on a landed barrel, and fire branch doesnt do anything with the barrel.

Then what if they make, for example, fire spells castable on a landed barrel along with water's? And water spells castable while carrying the barrel along with earth's? There's a way of creating potential versatility as well as new roles depending on the priority you have when using the barrel.


This post has been edited by camapheus - January 12, 2014, 20:35:18.
Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2012-06-07
posté January 13, 2014, 23:59:56 | #50

Quote (camapheus @ 12 January 2014 20:31) *
I'd like to see an official translation, so we could point out what we like /dislike about the proposal of the pdf xD

Yeah it would be cool to understand what's going on with this rework. I tried to look at the french pdf just to remember I don't know french.

Translating that pdf is a one hour job, not one month... just saying... also devs told they were to focus on class rework and bugs so my question is: What are they actually doing?


This post has been edited by ZioWilli - January 14, 2014, 00:02:11.
Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2013-04-09
posté January 14, 2014, 03:16:32 | #51
Yes panda has some minor flaws but a revamp can wait and some of these changes are just no like the changes to the barrel itself. As much as i adore my panda of all the classes sram needs to be fixed much more than anyone else right now.


Not so Hairy Moon * Member Since 2012-01-22
posté January 14, 2014, 03:55:02 | #52

Quote (ZioWilli @ 13 January 2014 23:59) *

Quote (camapheus @ 12 January 2014 20:31) *
I'd like to see an official translation, so we could point out what we like /dislike about the proposal of the pdf xD

Yeah it would be cool to understand what's going on with this rework. I tried to look at the french pdf just to remember I don't know french.

Translating that pdf is a one hour job, not one month... just saying... also devs told they were to focus on class rework and bugs so my question is: What are they actually doing?

Quote
Ankama scrapped the original changes and are going to try again it seems. No point in translating a file that will not be used.



Soft Crackler * Member Since 2013-05-10
posté January 14, 2014, 04:02:29 | #53
I could translate it, but I won't. Last time I translated something I didn't even get a "thank you". Enjoy never knowing what the original concept ever even was guys.


This post has been edited by Noobility - January 14, 2014, 04:02:59.
Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2012-03-14
posté January 15, 2014, 01:16:05 | #54

Quote (lyricalglitchen @ 14 January 2014 03:16) *
Yes panda has some minor flaws but a revamp can wait and some of these changes are just no like the changes to the barrel itself. As much as i adore my panda of all the classes sram needs to be fixed much more than anyone else right now.
You might be thinking mostly on pvp. Pandas are really useful in pvp fights, but thats only like 0.01% of the game, they really need more utility skills for pve fights since thats what support characters must fill in strategic games: utility


Quote (Noobility @ 14 January 2014 04:02) *
I could translate it, but I won't. Last time I translated something I didn't even get a "thank you". Enjoy never knowing what the original concept ever even was guys.
Good luck managing your evil kingdom xD


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2013-05-10
posté January 15, 2014, 05:43:20 | #55
I'm not evil All I want is a thank you when I take time to translate stuff.


Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-08-28
posté January 15, 2014, 06:07:01 | #56

Quote (Noobility @ 15 January 2014 05:43) *
I'm not evil All I want is a thank you when I take time to translate stuff.

Well, at least I would thank you if you do so


I am actually scared about this revamp. This class has one of the best utilities among the support classes, and for me it is well balanced already. I don't think Pandawa needs a whole revamp, only a few tweaks here and there. Knowing Ankama they might end up ruin the class and nerf the damage a lot, and even worse, limit the way of playing so a flexible (and the most fun to play) class becomes very boring to play in the end!!


Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2012-03-14
posté January 16, 2014, 08:55:37 | #57

Quote (Karakedi @ 15 January 2014 06:07) *

I dont know which are the utilities you are referring to. But my point is they have too little helpful skills to be considered good support characters.

For me they can do just 4 things: karchamrak (which is way too situational since you can move the target only at melee distance), reducing resistance (making it possible to deal like 10 more damage), using ether (which is also very situational), and giving a bonus of 20% damage.

If I had to choose my team the party would be panda-free for 90% of the battles xD


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté January 16, 2014, 15:18:41 | #58

Quote (camapheus @ 16 January 2014 08:55) *
For me they can do just 4 things: karchamrak (which is way too situational since you can move the target only at melee distance), reducing resistance (making it possible to deal like 10 more damage), using ether (which is also very situational), and giving a bonus of 20% damage.

If I had to choose my team the party would be panda-free for 90% of the battles xD

Karch is cheap at only 2ap to position someone up to four spaces away plus any mp you spend while carrying them. It reduces res 20%. Many people keep ignoring the best feature of Karch... holding someone makes them immune to damage and helps manipulate enemy AI. It's awesome.

Reducing that res on a high level target who's res matches your dmg% means doubling your teams total dmg. If you have 100% more dmg%, it means 50% more total dmg.

My ideal team would have multiple pandas.

I'm scared as well for this revamp. I expect to see damage nerfs and the utility skills become less effective. Why? I have no idea but that's Ankama's thing.


This post has been edited by Gynrei - January 16, 2014, 15:19:34.
Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2012-03-14
posté January 17, 2014, 10:09:10 | #59

Quote (Gynrei @ 16 January 2014 15:18) *
Karch is cheap at only 2ap to position someone up to four spaces away plus any mp you spend while carrying them. It reduces res 20%. Many people keep ignoring the best feature of Karch... holding someone makes them immune to damage and helps manipulate enemy AI. It's awesome. Reducing that res on a high level target who's res matches your dmg% means doubling your teams total dmg. If you have 100% more dmg%, it means 50% more total dmg.

My ideal team would have multiple pandas.
I'm scared as well for this revamp. I expect to see damage nerfs and the utility skills become less effective. Why? I have no idea but that's Ankama's thing.
Trying to keep someone from harm is a good move (still situational xD) and not that awesome since pandas arent very good bearing damage. I guess you could do some combinations to get the +res of pandawhack (supposing you dont run out of time) or else you might be easily brought down while carrying your partners, plus then the healer of the team should heal another support character? That's selfdefeating. A sacrier's sacrifice is totally better they are tanks, they protect you at long distance etc...

Now, messing with the enemies' AI is considered an exploit and its as illegal as it was the pandas' capacity of enclosing enemies in single cells using karchamrak and puttin their barrel in the way. In order words a mere cheat.

And those numbers seem to work well in your theory, would be good trying that in the real fights.

Last, I know many players are concerned about futere nerfes, but they shouldnt, the class is being entirely reworked with different spells effects and stuff which should offset any damage reductions.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté January 17, 2014, 18:00:00 | #60

Quote (camapheus @ 17 January 2014 10:09) *
pandas arent very good bearing damage.

Now, messing with the enemies' AI is considered an exploit and its as illegal as it was the pandas' capacity of enclosing enemies in single cells using karchamrak and puttin their barrel in the way. In order words a mere cheat.

And those numbers seem to work well in your theory, would be good trying that in the real fights.

Last, I know many players are concerned about futere nerfes, but they shouldnt, the class is being entirely reworked with different spells effects and stuff which should offset any damage reductions.

Panda's are great DPS. They get a damage bonus up to 100%, an extra AP/MP for a burst turn and +25% final fire dmg. Water can also lower enemy res by 100%. They also have some very good base dmg spells. They are machines.

How is it tough to get those numbers in a fight? As you fight a boss cast water spells on it.

Manipulating an enemies AI is the foundation of most game play. You study an opponent and counter it. Boxing a mob in so it can't hurt you is different than setting up situations so the boss acts in ways you've anticipated. A Feca's proposed Belligerence skill does exactly this. It makes the boss believe the Feca is weaker than it is. This will cause the AI to do things it normally wouldn't. Instead of ignoring the very tough Feca it will attack hoping for easy dmg.