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Revamp Pandawa
Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2012-01-19
posté January 18, 2014, 01:47:34 | #61

Quote (Gynrei @ 17 January 2014 18:00) *

How is it tough to get those numbers in a fight? As you fight a boss cast water spells on it.

Manipulating an enemies AI is the foundation of most game play. You study an opponent and counter it. Boxing a mob in so it can't hurt you is different than setting up situations so the boss acts in ways you've anticipated. A Feca's proposed Belligerence skill does exactly this. It makes the boss believe the Feca is weaker than it is. This will cause the AI to do things it normally wouldn't. Instead of ignoring the very tough Feca it will attack hoping for easy dmg.
I said they weren't good bearing damage (tanking if you want) not that they are bad dealing damage. But you just pointed out a good subject which is pandas' damage, and i guess it's ok i've seen fulfilling pandas dealing damage (just a few though) ^^

As to the resistance debuff, i agree it's a valuable resource when it stacks enough levels. But again, those numbers sound good in theory, and are really hard to achieve in the actual game due to multiple variants. I insist pandawas need more options when it comes to provide utility to their team.

And if that's what you meant by "manipulating AI" that's ok, I thought you actually meant using exploits against the enemies xD


Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-05-15
posté January 18, 2014, 06:56:30 | #62

Quote (camapheus @ 18 January 2014 01:47) *

Quote (Gynrei @ 17 January 2014 18:00) *

How is it tough to get those numbers in a fight? As you fight a boss cast water spells on it.

Manipulating an enemies AI is the foundation of most game play. You study an opponent and counter it. Boxing a mob in so it can't hurt you is different than setting up situations so the boss acts in ways you've anticipated. A Feca's proposed Belligerence skill does exactly this. It makes the boss believe the Feca is weaker than it is. This will cause the AI to do things it normally wouldn't. Instead of ignoring the very tough Feca it will attack hoping for easy dmg.
I said they weren't good bearing damage (tanking if you want) not that they are bad dealing damage. But you just pointed out a good subject which is pandas' damage, and i guess it's ok i've seen fulfilling pandas dealing damage (just a few though) ^^

As to the resistance debuff, i agree it's a valuable resource when it stacks enough levels. But again, those numbers sound good in theory, and are really hard to achieve in the actual game due to multiple variants. I insist pandawas need more options when it comes to provide utility to their team.

And if that's what you meant by "manipulating AI" that's ok, I thought you actually meant using exploits against the enemies xD

I have a guildie who is a high lvl panda (lvl 136+). She has no problem with resistance debuff whatsoever or anything which you describe as "situational". And our teams mostly consist of her Pandawa for most dungeons and other pve fights as well.

Like I said before, panda's are very useful and their utility is one of the best already. Eventhough they only have 4 utilities as you may deem to see, it is better than limitting them with only 2 or make their damage low and or make those utilities cost more AP/MP. Because mark my words, Ankama is going to ruin this class and is going to limit them even more.

I would be very happy with the Pandawa as it is if I were you. Asking Ankama for a complete unnecessary revamp is calling for a complete disaster. Because that is what they will do. I foresee major nerfs and limitations coming this way...


This post has been edited by Karakedi - January 18, 2014, 06:59:53.
posté January 24, 2014, 15:43:31 | #63

Quote (Sabi @ 22 December 2013 06:08) *
Hi everyone,

I am working on a translation for you guys next week.
Sabi, where is the translation?

-Rizarealm


Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2007-12-12
posté January 26, 2014, 11:39:18 | #64
Капитальный ремонт толчок


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté January 27, 2014, 14:59:12 | #65
My Panda and Iop are on the same account. I use my Panda for everything. I expect this to change sadly after revamp.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté February 18, 2014, 04:15:06 | #66
I wish the old gameplay (from Dofus) were taken into consideration on that revamp. It used to be so fun, being able to go drunk and enable specific spells (similarly to maskeraider masks). They even had an idea of making spells have different effects when drunk or sober, but it seems they gave up on that.

Just check Pandawa Class trailer, it looks so smooth, fun to play! (the trailer is outdated)


Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2013-04-08
posté February 18, 2014, 06:17:20 | #67
Actually when i said panda doesnt need a revamp i was referencing PvE...pvp...is kinda a side note IMO...not everyone does it, the systems we need for it to even matter pretty much still dont exist....i just dont see pvp as a reason to redo a whole class. Tweak ti sure, or small changes, yes, revamp no...overall im pleased with the current panda...does it need some fine tuning yes, but the last proposed...albeit scrapped changes were...too much


Short Strich * Member Since 2011-06-28
posté February 18, 2014, 08:43:34 | #68

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 18 February 2014 04:15) *
I wish the old gameplay (from Dofus) were taken into consideration on that revamp. It used to be so fun, being able to go drunk and enable specific spells (similarly to maskeraider masks). They even had an idea of making spells have different effects when drunk or sober, but it seems they gave up on that.

Just check Pandawa Class trailer, it looks so smooth, fun to play! (the trailer is outdated)
I kind of disagree with this. Part of what drew me to Wakfu panda's is that you aren't limited to being Merry to use any of the spells, they are available to you no matter your state. That's also the reason I don't play earth because I really don't like to be limited that much. Though I do agree with the spells having different effects depending on your level of Merry.

One thing that really needs to be looked at is Worn out. Losing more than what we gain from Merry is the crappiest debuff you can put on a class.

For Example 40 Merry gives:

+ 40% Damage.
+1 MP.

40 Worn Out takes:

-40% Damage
- 1 MP
- 1 AP

Losing an AP point when the buff didn't even add one is plain unfair. Merry is such an easy state to lose because you constantly have to be stacking it in some form, so making a state where the gains are only really beneficial after lvl 50 so easy to lose is something that should be looked at as well. I would make the suggestion of making Merry harder to lose where rather than lose the stack if you miss one turn it simply halves (this would also be incredibly be useful for Dizzy as well). This is a lot more convenient for PvM and PvP, I can't begin to tell you the amount of times I've died because I got stunned by a Chafer at lvl 80 Merry so i missed 2 turns instead of 1. Worn out would have to be reworked if this were the case though meaning lower lvls of Worn out would have to have the penalty increased.

Example:

50 Worn Out now:

-50% Damage
- 1 MP
- 1 AP


50 Worn Out after:

-100% Damage
- 2 MP
- 2 AP


(Not bad considering 60 Merry takes 2AP and 2MP at the moment)


This way seems much more justified to me as you got an extra turn of Merry without having to stack it which would in turn allow you to set yourself up to not take as much damage (throwing enemies away etc). Though I do understand how these sort of changes would be seen as unfair but really just look at Xelor damage buffs when the Dial is up :|

Oh look I wrote an essay...... Ah well feel free scrutinize.


This post has been edited by Whiterummy - February 18, 2014, 12:09:28.
Reason for edit : fixed totals
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté February 18, 2014, 16:03:12 | #69
@White

I did not mean by restrict, like Masks. Back in the days, as I can remember (v1 or v2 of Beta), Pandawas could use all spells sober, but if he gone drunk the spells would simply get new effects. The water ones could reduce dodge, lock, stuff like that.

It is a rather simple thought that could be explored. The only drawback is that they would need a boozer spell, because carrying the barrel and waiting for your turn's end to go drunk is not too flexible.

So basically, a random example I have to explain this situation is:

  • Water: Drunk: Status Debilitation (-Res, -Dodge, -Lock, -Range, etc), lower damage.Sober: higher damage, no status debilitation. Uses Barrel for area of effect.
  • Fire: Drunk: area of effect and range activated, Flaming Burp could have a cone shaped area of effect (like the spell cast in wakfu release trailer). Sober: low range, high single target damage.
  • Earth: Drunk: high damage and lack of mobility. Sober: lower damage and mobility.

So, basically, there would have to be a spell that uses the barrel in the current turn to become drunk.

I find pandas one of the most fun classes that Ankama has ever created and I don't want to see a revamp destroying that uniqueness. I think the game has many healing classes already, we don't really need another one. I'd rather see the Panda being modified in a different way than the one Sabi posted last year.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - February 18, 2014, 16:03:54.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté March 28, 2014, 15:07:10 | #70
I think we should drink from barrel when we pick it up or/and at start of turn if we carry it, not at the end of turn. That itself would improve multi-element build.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté May 03, 2014, 17:48:51 | #71
News from the french
#googletranslate

Quote
Hi I want to tell you that not pandas are not forgotten, but I will in the first time to the Sram, as discussed on pandas and solutions to solve the problems and meet the expectations may longer beings and complicated therefore unthinkable for the next patch. Sorry for the wait but it is difficult to follow and to several classes at once. Grou



Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté May 23, 2014, 15:22:01 | #72
I take it back, i'd enjoy a Panda revamp.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2008-05-13
posté May 24, 2014, 18:15:09 | #73
I was thinking that maybe every branch should have an use when carrrying the barrel. I mean, why not be able to cast the four water spells that can be used on barrel around yourself with a range of 0? That would be very interesting and being able to pull enemies toward you with milk fountain would be nice.

I don't know how the fire spells could work with this though.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté May 24, 2014, 18:32:37 | #74

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 24 May 2014 18:15) *
I was thinking that maybe every branch should have an use when carrrying the barrel. I mean, why not be able to cast the four water spells that can be used on barrel around yourself with a range of 0? That would be very interesting and being able to pull enemies toward you with milk fountain would be nice.

I don't know how the fire spells could work with this though.
Thats quite good idea! Would be fun if, for example, water panda that carry barrel would have an animation of dancing on hands on the barrel and spitting milk around or jumping up from the barrel and using its hand to form a wave of milk on the barrel in "kame-hame style" (they would be on the same cell and panda would pick the barrel after the animation).

As for fire spell i think that it should be still possible for panda to breath with fire or carry the barrel in 1 hand while attacking with the other, jumping with Daily Springer while throwing barrel as if it was juggling with it.

It is all possible, however it will make Ankama need to invest more time in creating new sprites for panda, and i don't think they bother that much to make us love this game.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - May 24, 2014, 18:33:25.
Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2012-01-19
posté May 27, 2014, 06:54:12 | #75
As to the changes for the merriment/worn-out system, i was thinking that the merry state could give a flat bonus depending on the lvl of a specialty spell (maybe barrel).

For example

Barrel:
Effects (lvl 9): When you drink applies merry lvl 100 (activating bamboozle should count as drinking too).

So that, you'll be usefull from the very beginning of a fight.

Now, we would be able to reach merry lvl 100 in our first turn, so we'll get worn-out state that quick? not if they make us able to keep our merriment as long as we can keep drinking, instead of loosing it automatically once we are at our max potential.

Regarding worn-out problems, it shouldn't be just a funny and unfair debuff we get from fighting with our abilities, i guess it can be reworked in order to unlock some speciall effects in our spells, or at least to make it less clunky. I think this is not a crazy idea... i mean it would seem normal to me if the masters of drunkeness had the talent of controling their hangovers in a helpful way, specially in a magical world.


Quote (Niddhoggy @ 24 May 2014 18:15) *
I was thinking that maybe every branch should have an use when carrrying the barrel. I mean, why not be able to cast the four water spells that can be used on barrel around yourself with a range of 0? That would be very interesting and being able to pull enemies toward you with milk fountain would be nice.

I don't know how the fire spells could work with this though.
That's a good idea, i would rather make pandas able to use 2 branches carrying the barrel earth/water and 2 branches casting on the placed barrel water/fire


This post has been edited by camapheus - July 04, 2014, 02:59:18.
Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2014-05-29
posté June 04, 2014, 05:53:25 | #76
My question is when is this revamp going to happen i just hit lvl 30 and im wondering will i get another reset after the revamp then?


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2012-05-02
posté June 04, 2014, 15:33:21 | #77
Yes, you will get additional restatet


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2012-01-19
posté June 17, 2014, 14:52:11 | #78
i have an idea about a new system for the dizzy state.

Currently this is pandawa's method to improve their damage output, but it depends too much on the number of allies in the fight. So i think the following new effect would help this feature being more flexible and efficient:

Dizzy: will no longer lower the resistance of the targets but will stack levels each time a merry character attacks the target. When the enemy reaches the max lvl of dizziness the state will be consumed automatically and deal extra water damage to the target.

Also this new system could work in different ways. Instead of dealing damage automatically, pandawas' spells could have a different special effect applied to the enemies that have reached the max lvl of dizziness.

Examples of these effects could be the extra damage, or any debuff like stun, sleep, the actual resistance reduction, maybe a masive damage reduction, etc. A different effect for each spell.

This new system is thought for a supportive role, so i guess these features would be implemented in the water branch and i don't know if it would be needed to remove the dizzy application from the earth branch.

~added~

New idea for a debuff aplied to the enemies and/or pandas themselves when they reach the max lvl of merry. im gonna call it simply "new worn out".

New worn out's effects would lower the elemental resistance of the target and trigger the posibility of burning an extra AP each time the target wastes AP.

~added~

I'd like them to bring in the capacity for pandawas to make them able to cast the barrel spell on themselves (allowing them to instantly carry the barrel instead of wasting 1 more AP to do it) in order to get a better management of AP. Also I think the barrel spell's new mechanic described in the pdf where actually really good, exept for its cost (4AP. Really?!), so they just could couple the oneself barrel sumonning to those changes.

~new~

Maybe they should change pandwas' spcialty master of merriment bonus of dodge for something more usefull, you will never (or almost) see a pandawa dodging by walking.

PS: do we have any news?? XD


This post has been edited by camapheus - July 20, 2014, 23:43:48.
posté July 16, 2014, 09:05:33 | #79
No news at the moment.
I'm gonna take a rope... long time ago that I've waiting for this.


Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2012-06-03
posté July 23, 2014, 11:22:19 | #80

Quote (camapheus @ 17 June 2014 14:52) *

Maybe they should change pandwas' spcialty master of merriment bonus of dodge for something more usefull, you will never (or almost) see a pandawa dodging by walking.

Actually is a usefull stat for a pandawa, but unlike WIP srams and zobals, if pandas max their dodge up to 100, they only get dodge. Also, in general, we don't use sets with dodge.

I mean, instead of difficulting dodging even more, they should make it easier and worthy. Just look at our speed bonus...

And yes I want news too... the only thing that tell us they didn't forgot about pandas is the pandawa next to the WIP character in the beta server... which tells something like "someday you will be using this one instead". xD