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Eco-Terrorsim
Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2013-03-18
posté April 14, 2013, 08:25:14 | #1
Eco-Terrorsim I've seen it referred to a lot on these fora and it has often happened that I have walked into an area, looked at the flora and fauna stats on the clan leader menu, and found things... empty. I went to Sufokia the other day to explore and one area felt quite dead.

So, let's start and say that, for purposes of this thread, we can define eco-terrorism as the act of intentionally wiping out or severely reducing a resource in an area.

I've seen a number of threads talking about solutions to this sort of thing and how we can all do our part to improve the World of Twelve, but I'm curious what other players think about the idea of eco-terrorism, and whether they have caught eco-terrorists in-game or played a character that was an eco-terrorist.

So I have a few questions to kick off discussion for this:

1. How much does eco-terrorism bother you, if at all? Is it an excuse to re-design the landscape from scratch or is it a deplorable act that sets everyone back?
2. Are there times when you would consider it fair, appropriate, and or reasonable to commit eco-terrorism? For instance, during war-time, how ethical would you consider it for a Group of characters to sneak into an enemy country and wipe out as many supplies as possible?
3. What would you consider appropriate responses to different levels of eco-terrorism? As a player, do you ever consider it appropriate to attack another player for imbalancing an area? Would you intervene if you were in a foreign country and saw someone from that country damaging their own country?

And if you have played a character who has commited eco-terrorism:

4. Where and for what purpose?
5. Do you feel justified? Do you think you need justification at all?


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté April 14, 2013, 12:48:27 | #2
I actually met an eco-terrorist in Sufokia who had about negative 9k CP. Some people do it simply because they want to be an outlaw, for the challenge and thrill.

1. Eco-terrorism does bother me and I see it a lot. The worst thing someone can do is plant monsters way above the limit that the clan bonus requires, since it can take forever to fix. Eco-terrorism isn't just about mowing everything down. Wiping out resources is almost impossible, however. People keep supplies of all kinds of trees, crops, and herbs and replace them on a regular basis.

2. Personally, I dislike any kind of eco-terrorism for griefing purposes. There are upsides to eco-terrorism though. By cutting down things, other people can replant to gain exp, wakfu, and CP.

3. If someone is wiping out something that a clan bonus is needed for, I find it appropriate to attack them, even in another nation. I've told someone from Brakmar to replant trees because they were upsetting the clan bonus in Amakna, after the governor attacked them. I'm from Sufokia.


Short Strich * Member Since 2006-04-17
posté April 23, 2013, 11:21:53 | #3
At current, I am not worried about eco-terrorists what so ever. They haven't caused any negative impact on me, and any negative impact they cause on the world is minimal and easily repaired. In fact, I quite like eco-terrorists. They make me look good in front of my nation and earn me citizenship points to boot.

I guess if I was more involved in combat and farming mats from mobs, it would be a bit of an issue... But a smart person will be sure to stockpile on seeds before hand.

At current, I don't think the mechanics of the ecosystem have a bad enough impact on the world if the ecosystem is imbalanced. People like me still try to maintain the ecosystem, but it's not really that rewarding. It's probably more rewarding for an eco-terrorist since at least they are getting mats, logs, and crops out of it and leave the work of regrowing to everyone else.


This post has been edited by Roumo - April 23, 2013, 11:22:17.
Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2011-08-14
posté April 23, 2013, 13:15:02 | #4
I absolutely do not care about eco terrorism. I do not see no one cause for which he would have stopped me from playing. For the sake of a bonus of 10% Demag? Pfff .... On the contrary, it makes it possible for noobs to get citizen points

Ecological situation does not affect the game process, so I never understood the fools who bother to growing giant forests and fields. they seem to be saying: "hey guys there's a lot of resources come and collect them."

very funny to watch as they whine and then the salivary bryzhuut "aah someone cut down my trees." And rightly so that cut down. Want resources? guard them!
-------------------
Only long anakama killed sandbox system for invulnerability buff after death. Now if I want to cut down the trees I'll do it. No one can stop me


This post has been edited by milordDen - April 23, 2013, 13:16:49.
Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2013-04-27
posté May 04, 2013, 09:21:20 | #5

Quote (milordDen @ 23 April 2013 13:15) *
I absolutely do not care about eco terrorism. I do not see no one cause for which he would have stopped me from playing. For the sake of a bonus of 10% Demag? Pfff .... On the contrary, it makes it possible for noobs to get citizen points

Ecological situation does not affect the game process, so I never understood the fools who bother to growing giant forests and fields. they seem to be saying: "hey guys there's a lot of resources come and collect them."

very funny to watch as they whine and then the salivary bryzhuut "aah someone cut down my trees." And rightly so that cut down. Want resources? guard them!
-------------------
Only long anakama killed sandbox system for invulnerability buff after death. Now if I want to cut down the trees I'll do it. No one can stop me


What you say makes sense logically, in the perspective of personal gain. But there is absolutely no sense of respect for other people or for the aesthetics of ecosystem in the game.

One of the main reasons I like this game from the start is the concept of an ecosystem. It feels good to be able to help balance the maps, make them look good and be good for everyone to use and enjoy.

If everyone was like you, it would no longer be a community, and more like an "everybody is my enemy, I need to keep everything to myself."

When I replant a naked forest, it is for the benefit of everyone in hopes that they will at least regrow half of what they take, which takes very little effort. It benefits everyone, and makes everything look and feel beautiful.


Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2013-04-26
posté May 04, 2013, 09:31:55 | #6

Quote (milordDen @ 23 April 2013 13:15) *
I absolutely do not care about eco terrorism. I do not see no one cause for which he would have stopped me from playing. For the sake of a bonus of 10% Demag? Pfff .... On the contrary, it makes it possible for noobs to get citizen points

Ecological situation does not affect the game process, so I never understood the fools who bother to growing giant forests and fields. they seem to be saying: "hey guys there's a lot of resources come and collect them."

very funny to watch as they whine and then the salivary bryzhuut "aah someone cut down my trees." And rightly so that cut down. Want resources? guard them!
-------------------
Only long anakama killed sandbox system for invulnerability buff after death. Now if I want to cut down the trees I'll do it. No one can stop me
Yeeeah... its people like you who completely ruin this aspect of the game.

if this game has no ecosystem concept and everything respawns on its own, it will be perfect for you.

I don't think those people who plant forests and replant things only want the resources. As Sonnilion said, they care about other people and they care about the aesthetics.

You just have a very selfish mindset, Which is okay i suppose. its normal for humans.


Larva Rangers * Member Since 2011-12-23
posté May 11, 2013, 03:59:00 | #7
I suppose I'd be classified as an eco-terrorist. And I know several people who would be described as the same.
When I'm in the need for a plant or crop or tree, I take it.
I won't generally take an area below minimum, however.
And while running around and I see something I can use, cotton or chili, perhaps, I'll take that, too.

I've been an ecologist, as well. Lol.

The way I see it, it's a game. There are always more seeds out there. If you don't want your stuff taken, keep watch over it. If someone is taking your stuff, ask them to stop, if they don't then you are free to aggro them. And yes, I have been attacked for stealing crops. I won't stop unless someone asks me to and yes, I will stop. I won't replant, however. I never plant unless I happen to unbalance an area. I like my bonuses and don't want to ruin other peoples.

I prefer rares. If I see a rare crop left unpicked in the middle of a field someone is harvesting, I will run up and take it. If someone asks me to not do that I will give it to them (as they might not have high enough level to harvest it themselves and were waiting).

Without people taking and earning Stasis then people couldn't plant and earn Wakfu. Imagine trying to get 99% Wakfu if every area was perfect always.

~Revi ^^


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2005-11-12
posté May 11, 2013, 04:18:11 | #8
being an eco terrorist is so great , i love fucking over areas honestly and have enjoyed it since the beta


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2012-03-03
posté May 11, 2013, 04:26:33 | #9

Quote (milordDen @ 23 April 2013 13:15) *
Want resources? guard them!
or, you know. Plant them yourself ? '


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2012-02-19
posté May 11, 2013, 05:18:19 | #10
im a criminal on an alt i have like -10026 cp or something like that and i did that for a variaty of reasons mostly because i wanted to be an outlaw (for a title that doesnt exist) so i deforested bonta a few times or almost made holey forest not a forest anymore (quite proud of that).

to answer somethings i only ever took what i needed i never actively sought out to destroy an ecosystem i simply needed the mat and wanted to be a criminal so i didnt stop when i started getting negative cp and took as much as i could or stand harvesting... or before i was attacked by some passer by.

fun story this one person had a patch of cotton then went away so i harvested it all and replaced it with dendron just to mess with them .. chased me all through yurburt trying to aggro me but i escaped.

Any who i feel justified in a way devastating ecosystems. first of all helped me level professions. secondly in the grand scheme of things you need someone who is a criminal or eco terrorist to destroy it all so others can gain cp gain wakfu be a guard etc etc. i preform a function in society. though to be fair my eco terrorism has been none as of late mostly because i dont need any mats on that scale.

just wanted to put in my piece sense you asked and i could be considered a eco terrorist.


Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2013-04-27
posté May 24, 2013, 00:58:28 | #11

Quote (lordleo @ 11 May 2013 04:18) *
being an eco terrorist is so great , i love fucking over areas honestly and have enjoyed it since the beta

Because:

-it is easy
-you gain benefit from it
-you dont give a rats arse about other people.

Planting areas up is difficult. You need to harvest seeds before planting anything. And when planting an area, there is NO BENEFIT to the player doing it. They mainly do it for the community. (I assume, because I do)

Destroying everything is completely disregarding the effort and thought gone into the planting, which makes you scum. But you probably think its all cool, because it seems nowadays people think being villain and evil is very 'cool' and 'awesome'.


Quote
Any who i feel justified in a way devastating ecosystems. first of all helped me level professions. secondly in the grand scheme of things you need someone who is a criminal or eco terrorist to destroy it all so others can gain cp gain wakfu be a guard etc etc. i preform a function in society. though to be fair my eco terrorism has been none as of late mostly because i dont need any mats on that scale.

Everyone wants mats. Not just you. Everyone would like to level professions. Not just you.

No, you do not contribute anything apart from being scum. You just gain from other peoples honest hard work. PLanting an area back has only aesthetic pleasure, as well as a sense of community, HOPING that people will respect and at least replant once.

Destroying everything has immediete benefit. you get the mats, you get the stasis buff to get even more mats, and wakfu gain nothing by replanting it all back for scum like you.

If replant-goers were doing it for themselves, they will replant, then cut down their own resource. But this takes at least double the time. Because if we want to grow , we need seeds. We need to gain a resource, only to lose it, by growing as well as losing time. Only after this can we gain anything from growing. And then if we cut things down, it becomes more difficult to keep WAKFU up to gain growing bonuses.

If us growers had more benefit from growing anything, then great! destroy so i can gain. But no, we do not gain. We just lose. We lose and lose and lose because of people like you.


Quote
Without people taking and earning Stasis then people couldn't plant and earn Wakfu. Imagine trying to get 99% Wakfu if every area was perfect always.

Yet another ignorant selfish bloke who thinks gaining wakfu has any benefit.

And to add, if you wipe things out, wakfu is even more difficult to gain, because we cannot find the seeds we want. Resources become so rare. If I am going to level wakfu, I might as well level my herbalism or lumberjack with the correct plants and trees. But of course, eco terrorists make this difficult. And once we level wakfu, we still get no benefit. Stasis, all you need to do is take. Thats it. No complication, and then getting stasis buff makes taking even easier.

Then when resources are depleted, you just need to wait for some poor ignorant sod who worked hard to replant an area with no benefit, then cut it all down much to the planters despair. The planter will lose motivation to do this anymore. Again, planters only lose. We lose time, we lose resources, we lose motivation to keep the world of wakfu beautiful and plentiful for everyone.


This post has been edited by Sonnilion - May 24, 2013, 01:18:34.
Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2013-03-24
posté May 24, 2013, 09:40:18 | #12
Aside of stemming an excess for a region, I really don't get the point of just taking and taking. It generally doesn't take much effort/time to replant a portion of what's harvested because that part can be queued. While its probable that someone can just as soon as replant an area, its also possible for someone else to take that too, and even for people to not actually replant at all. And while I undestand the balance of wakfu/statis for the game, the player entitlement for 'needing' to take is in many ways flawed as resources have an automation with them, such as monsters eating crops.

If i want to worry about cit points, then I'll just overplant monsters in an area and kill them. Its only -3 civ points per and based on the mob type (like scara seeds) i get like x8 the lost, and its all part of what I can control.

When I do plant big fields though, I don't put it near zaps or dragos, that much usually is just asking to have someone tear it down. I figure if I'm using an unorothodox area to plant, thats probably a bigger waste of time for people to go out of their way looking for regions to tear down first. Though I usually prefer to build up regions that don't have a demand for a particular resource so I can just toss out however much I want without worrying about balance in that region anyway.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2013-10-12
posté October 19, 2013, 03:21:17 | #13
From my own experience eco terrorism is hurdle to the game. Not only the low level areas are empty of other people to play with they are also empty of trees. Some types of wood are necessary for simple items that get you started in the game, as display windows, ikiakits and resource boxes. This way you are forced to level up without touching any professions till you find a few garden gems and the right cuttings (this, along with haven worlds will have us all playing each to his own little hole in the end but that's another matter).
The blame is not with the "eco-terrorists", people who don't care about anything will exist always everywhere and no amount of yelling or name calling will change that. The system needs to be improved so that it doesn't bring about the apocalypse the moment a bunch of people decide replanting is boring.
If only wakfu alignment gave a bonus to resource gathering (example, with high wakfu you gather up to x2 the resources from a single action, stasis gathers faster) there would be more in replanting than prettying up a region or gaining cp.
It should be made clear there are not just players who like powerleveling (and need the fast gathering buff) and players who like decorating or socializing (thus they get the fast replanting buff). Most of us are in the middle and would like a chance to do both things.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2011-09-10
posté November 07, 2013, 01:42:47 | #14
1. Eco-terrorism doesn't bother me at all and makes for a more enjoyable play-style
2. Its a sandbox game where you can choose what you want to do, and as it currently stands destroying the eco-system doesn't have major effects on the game so i have no problem with it
3. If I'm going around destroying a place i have no problem with people coming and attacking me, I'm an outlaw so imo i have no nation and the world is my playground.
4.Well my main Eco-terrorist is my cra which is currently at around -46,000 cp, and i do it for the enjoyment and am also aiming to get the public menace rank at -100,000 cp
5. Justification... I'm an outlaw ^^


~~K.matt~~


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté November 07, 2013, 02:02:34 | #15
You kind of have to do it if you want to get more interesting pvp than the 1 on 1 duels at bonta. I have great fun roleplaying a saddida that needs to cut down all the weak low level trees and replant them with strong high level ones, above the clan limit of course

I kinda stopped though because im planning a server change to wakfu asia.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-03-19
posté November 07, 2013, 03:03:22 | #16
Damned necromancers!


Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2013-11-03
posté November 07, 2013, 14:07:04 | #17
My big problem with Eco-Terrorism is simply the timing of it. If I start a simple project that only requires a touch of wood, then the full forest is there and ready for me. If I start a larger project such as trying to level up one of my skills high enough to make the next weapon I want, then the forest has just been clear cut and I need to spend a whole bunch of time replanting it.

Worse with a big project sometimes I go into the forest and it's there and ready, and I work for a bit on cutting wood. Then one of my guild mates says 'Hey anyone up for a dungeon?' and I'm like sure dungeon sounds good. Of course after doing the dungeon I go back to cut wood to only find the area has been clear cut while I wasn't looking.

Luckily I keep a verity of trees planted in my one and only harvest gem, so that in the event of an area being clear cut I can get it repopulated with a verity of trees (instead of say filling an entire zone with just Hazzlenut trees... nice tree but I don't think ALL of morning wood needs to be hazzlenut).

The most annoying part though about repopulating a forest that's been depleted is that as long as it's below the eco line then you can't harvest any of the wood. So if I go in just wanting a quick 30 wood, I suddenly have to replant an entire forest before I can get a single wood. Mean while the people that are doing the clear cutting get wood the entire time they are cutting down trees, even if they are cutting them down while the forest is below the eco-line.

Seriously though I get that there are reasons that someone might want to clear cut a forest (reasons other than that they just want to troll people). It's just annoying that it repeatedly happens right when I'm going to start working on a big project.

Something that I wish was added to the game was some sort of nation reward for keeping a forest solidly in the eco happy spot. What I mean is if you cut down trees nothing bad happens until you take it below the eco-line. You have though been getting the joy of getting more wood that even if you don't want you could sell in the market.

Planting the forest on the other hand only gives you a reward up until the point you get it into the eco happy spot just barely. Then any extra tree you plant after that is just you going above and beyond. I guess there is the wakfu bonus you work toward if you keep planting, but again if you have your Wakfu at maxed % there is no bonus to it really.

One last thing though... Why do people clear cut the newbie forest? Seriously they are ash trees, and they aren't even getting any nation reward or punishment. The only real reason I care is that there are stupid recipes that are all like you need so many angle brackets to make this and of course angle brackets are made with ash wood. If it wasn't for those stupid angle brackets I would let people still working with ash wood worry about their own forest.


Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2006-06-20
posté November 07, 2013, 19:08:47 | #18
Outlaw system is what makes WAKFU really unique. There aren't many restrictions like in other MMOs, where for PKing or in this case eco-terrorising, you could lose all of your items, couldn't trade, chat, just couldn't do pretty much anything...

It also gives government members something to do, other than flashing their cool looking crowns and symbols... It is a great PvP fun, especially when you are strong enough to face guards and other players.

It was fun while it lasted. I stopped playing on the Remington server because the population is really low, and there weren't many outlaws to play with and have fun in general. I just got really bored with this game...

I am looking forward to WAKFU Asia though. I might start playing there, anew. As long as the population count is higher than on Remington server. Until that, for me, WAKFU will be frozen.

"Thank yous" to all haters who made the "Outlaw" experience trollfull.

~ Kizio Mizio


This post has been edited by Butterflyx - November 07, 2013, 19:12:13.
Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2013-11-03
posté November 07, 2013, 21:25:15 | #19
The out law system is cool I admit, though something that I see happens on occasion is someone comes to a forest and starts clear cutting it and stops right before they become an outlaw. In general this leaves you with to few trees to get a good rhythm going of replanting and cutting so you aren't stuck waiting for the trees to regrow. Also because nobody actually broke a law there isn't anyone to hunt down as an "Outlaw".


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté November 08, 2013, 01:52:19 | #20

Quote (GeekyMeerkat @ 07 November 2013 21:25) *
The out law system is cool I admit, though something that I see happens on occasion is someone comes to a forest and starts clear cutting it and stops right before they become an outlaw. In general this leaves you with to few trees to get a good rhythm going of replanting and cutting so you aren't stuck waiting for the trees to regrow. Also because nobody actually broke a law there isn't anyone to hunt down as an "Outlaw".
Yeah, those are the real monsters! :3