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Member Since : 2011-07-05
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posté August 07, 2014, 15:39:36 | #1

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 07 August 2014 11:54) *
Imo the idea to make dolls "cheaper" from existing doll (only after they have been previously summoned) is bad.

The healing is no where close to decent as its not 1AP heal, but 2AP+2AP+1AP heal minimum with doll made by poisoned wind of vaporize (unless you made madoll with Earthquake then 2AP+1MP+1AP).

I'd rather make Ultrapowerful for 5AP twice with 10AP build on first turn rather then making 2 blockers in first turn to make seeds from them on 2nd turn to then make 2 ultrapoweful dolls (usually thats what i do), as it make Sadida forced to be weaker at first turn even when it play with dolls.
It doesnt make them cheaper, it makes your use of AP better and makes you more efficient. Also, you are saying its a bad idea of making the player become more aware to the micro-management of their summons and rewarding them for that, and that is just an outright dumb thing to say.

The heal is 1ap, the cost put into summoning the doll shouldnt be calculated when making the heal, since that cost is put into making the damage of the doll. If you want the spell to heal you like a standard 3ap spell, then I hope you are prepared to have dolls deal no damage to balance that out.

Also, why two blockers when you can Ultra+Greedy, Ultra+Greedy, and then turn the two Greedies to Ultras on the 3rd turn? That should help a bit with your damage output.


This post has been edited by smallz117 - August 07, 2014, 15:49:16.
Reason for edit : cleaning it up a bit
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #760789  Replies : 46  Views : 1301
posté August 06, 2014, 16:57:25 | #2

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 06 August 2014 16:13) *
@smallz117
Just what exactly you "like" about current Dolly Sacrifice?
1) Using it allows me to change a doll i have out into a different doll for 1ap less cost than it would be to summon an entirely new doll
2) While changing the doll, I get a decent 1ap heal
3) If a doll is low on hp, I can use this spell to turn it into a seed and retrigger the doll back to full health (with the 1ap less cost to completely resummon it and getting a minor heal)


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #760482  Replies : 46  Views : 1301
posté August 06, 2014, 16:09:24 | #3

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 06 August 2014 11:48) *

Quote (smallz117 @ 05 August 2014 20:12) *

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 05 August 2014 00:50) *
p.s. Dolls in your reasoning kinda seem like "ap stockpile", wich makes it a good reason to use them over "stockpiling" ap in form of seed that doesnt deal dmg[...]
While yes, that is a part of the point im making, the main thing is that this spell basically leaves almost no negatives. The only way you can lose on your investment with dolls is if they get 1 shot on their first turn or if the most expensive doll is summoned in a very bad position. And these types of safety nets often lead to small imbalances that can build up with other spells or classes that can lead to some overpowering situations, too, such as with Tree, which you said you plan on fixing (which would probably have to be fixed by making Tree only be castable at the start of your turn)

Also, with your seeds laying out after Tree, the opponent would have to trigger the seed and then kill the sac doll (or get hit by it, but that would be bad for him) to prevent you from profiting from the seeds, someone wouldnt be able to kill more than 3, likely only kill 2 though, based on average ap costs, so you can still have some seeds to work with.

Theres also the fact that the flow of battle can change quickly, meaning when you have dolls out, you might find that removing the dolls would be something you want to do right then. So not only do you turn the fight back in your favor just by changing your battle style, but you also give yourself a large self heal along with an AP boost to deal some extra damage. And while it might not happen a whole lot, its still something frequent enough that matters.

But I'd have to see what else is (i believe you said you had more) planned for sadida, but likely there will be another one or two combinations that can turn this spell into something abusable.
I don't know why you keep saying that you get AP boost AND the heal.
Ah, my bad, I had read it wrong since I figured the spell would have been designed to turn the doll into a seed, and then remove the seed (as it is now).
In that case this spell went from powerful strategic play to near complete boredom...this literally takes everything i liked about the spell and leaves things that i dont really find interesting other than the doll control. But w/e, Ill have to wait for whatever else is in store, because i still have to see how everything flows together, spells and specialties, before i have any official say.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #760471  Replies : 46  Views : 1301
posté August 05, 2014, 20:12:10 | #4

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 05 August 2014 00:50) *
p.s. Dolls in your reasoning kinda seem like "ap stockpile", wich makes it a good reason to use them over "stockpiling" ap in form of seed that doesnt deal dmg[...]
While yes, that is a part of the point im making, the main thing is that this spell basically leaves almost no negatives. The only way you can lose on your investment with dolls is if they get 1 shot on their first turn or if the most expensive doll is summoned in a very bad position. And these types of safety nets often lead to small imbalances that can build up with other spells or classes that can lead to some overpowering situations, too, such as with Tree, which you said you plan on fixing (which would probably have to be fixed by making Tree only be castable at the start of your turn)

Also, with your seeds laying out after Tree, the opponent would have to trigger the seed and then kill the sac doll (or get hit by it, but that would be bad for him) to prevent you from profiting from the seeds, someone wouldnt be able to kill more than 3, likely only kill 2 though, based on average ap costs, so you can still have some seeds to work with.

Theres also the fact that the flow of battle can change quickly, meaning when you have dolls out, you might find that removing the dolls would be something you want to do right then. So not only do you turn the fight back in your favor just by changing your battle style, but you also give yourself a large self heal along with an AP boost to deal some extra damage. And while it might not happen a whole lot, its still something frequent enough that matters.

But I'd have to see what else is (i believe you said you had more) planned for sadida, but likely there will be another one or two combinations that can turn this spell into something abusable.


This post has been edited by smallz117 - August 05, 2014, 20:13:18.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #760256  Replies : 46  Views : 1301
posté August 04, 2014, 23:53:53 | #5

Quote (Kikuihimonji @ 04 August 2014 22:02) *

Quote (smallz117 @ 04 August 2014 16:06) *
I recommend re-evaluating Dolly Devotion.

The cost/efficiency of it is absurd at max rank. 0 cost for a 30base heal per doll at lvl 100. When combined with Return to Roots you literally give yourself the power to healnuke yourself while becoming invulnerable, and thats not even counting the AP you can use before using Return to Roots.

Also the AP return adds to the imbalance of both the spell and doll's power, since dolls are unlikely to be targeted, after 2-3 turns you already have a massively positive output when combined with Dolly Devotion. And then you can use that refunded AP with multiple dolls to get an even higher damage/heal output.
You dont get refunded from dolls. You get refunded from seeds. Turning doll to seed cost 1ap, so turning it to seed for that 1 ap cost for the sake to get 1ap from it is... making you do something wrong.

The heal is fine and related to the minimal cost of creating 1 doll with 2AP cost elemental spell, wich combined with cost of seed make it 3ap cost. Summoning seed and activating it and then sacrificing it = 3ap used for 30 base heal at level 100. Its not that much considering that other classed have higher base value for their healing spell (Ecaflips having 47 base dmg for 3ap spell if i remember well). Also when you sacrifice the doll - you loose the summon so you loose that potential dmg the doll would deal if you would leave it not sacrificed. So instead of making doll deal its attack with their own 3ap spell, you sacrifice it and heal yourself for something worth of 3ap spell heal.
I meant the fact that the dolls alone give you a profit from the investment on them after 2-3 turns. So you can use your dolls as an AP stockpile that can still deal damage. And while it is only 1ap you get back, AP still matters.

Also, no, the heal is not fine.
Reason 1: Dolls will usually pay for themselves after 2 turns, after that anything else you get form the doll is free, either more damage or the heal you can get from the spell if you happen to need it. This also means after 1 turn, you can use the '2ap heal' for yourself and resummon a 2ap doll and always be more efficient than most other classes with your AP.
Reason 2: If you have 4 dolls, and seem to require using the Tree spell, then you can get 120 base healing from 0ap cost (since tree would turn the dolls into seeds anyway, so why waste them) Along with the, lets say you had 5mp left over (since you dont have to move at all with your Dolly Devotion spell), which means 60base heal from that, too. You already have a 180base heal, better than most classes, on yourself ALONG with Invulnerability. Not only that, but you still have 10ap(or even more) to work with before you even cast tree. Meaning at lvl 100 you can pull out a healing potential of nearly 300base hp, and thats only using Muddoll as a heal 3 times.

(Also, just so you know, Eni's Trans can only be cast 1/fight, no matter who you cast it on, once you cast it once, you cant cast it again)


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #760029  Replies : 46  Views : 1301
posté August 04, 2014, 16:06:01 | #6
I recommend re-evaluating Dolly Devotion.

The cost/efficiency of it is absurd at max rank. 0 cost for a 30base heal per doll at lvl 100. When combined with Return to Roots you literally give yourself the power to healnuke yourself while becoming invulnerable, and thats not even counting the AP you can use before using Return to Roots.

Also the AP return adds to the imbalance of both the spell and doll's power, since dolls are unlikely to be targeted, after 2-3 turns you already have a massively positive output when combined with Dolly Devotion. And then you can use that refunded AP with multiple dolls to get an even higher damage/heal output.


This post has been edited by smallz117 - August 04, 2014, 16:45:43.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #759929  Replies : 46  Views : 1301
posté July 31, 2014, 18:21:48 | #7
As for your other questions:

Fire heals do scale off of your fire damage and +heals.

Coney's heals only scales off your character's lvl. So leveling Coney only decreases its cost and makes the coney a bit bulkier.

If you also want any more in-depth questions answered, I'd be glad to help.


This post has been edited by smallz117 - July 31, 2014, 18:22:48.
Thread : Eniripsa  Preview message : #758883  Replies : 6  Views : 423
posté July 29, 2014, 22:48:17 | #8

Quote (Neneko88 @ 29 July 2014 22:12) *
You bring no discussion to this topic

All you do is talk about how smallz this and smallz that. If you like the idea so much you would focus on the topic and nothing else. Who cares if someone in the topic said they hated Grou
Who cares if someone replied to someone who hated Grou. (Hint: You do)


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #758382  Replies : 50  Views : 1146
posté July 29, 2014, 19:43:34 | #9

Quote (Neneko88 @ 29 July 2014 19:33) *

Quote (smallz117 @ 29 July 2014 19:31) *

Quote (Neneko88 @ 29 July 2014 18:56) *
It comes down to people (specially you in the last 5 months) not reading the topic entirely and flaming.

If you look at my post after kiku I said that I liked the idea of casting tree on an empty cell better and that it should be the way to go.
too bad kurokat forgot to read the topic

and can you please stop making the topic what it isn't. Besides you and kuro everyone else likes this idea.
It would be nice if you actually read my posts as I havent said anything about how I feel about the idea of trees for sadidas.
Also I was only responding to someone who made a comment about Grou, and then others then responded about how people feel about Grou.

Welcome to Sadida threads
Can you stop being a jerk already?
I tried that before and it brought forth similar results.

Welcome to Sadida Threads


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #758322  Replies : 50  Views : 1146
posté July 29, 2014, 19:31:38 | #10

Quote (Neneko88 @ 29 July 2014 18:56) *
It comes down to people (specially you in the last 5 months) not reading the topic entirely and flaming.

If you look at my post after kiku I said that I liked the idea of casting tree on an empty cell better and that it should be the way to go.
too bad kurokat forgot to read the topic

and can you please stop making the topic what it isn't. Besides you and kuro everyone else likes this idea.
It would be nice if you actually read my posts as I havent said anything about how I feel about the idea of trees for sadidas.
Also I was only responding to someone who made a comment about Grou, and then others then responded about how people feel about Grou.

Welcome to Sadida threads


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #758317  Replies : 50  Views : 1146
posté July 29, 2014, 18:39:49 | #11

Quote (Neneko88 @ 29 July 2014 17:16) *
so anything I said [...] doesn't count anymore.

sorry about your time
Welcome to basically how every sadida thread comes down to.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #758295  Replies : 50  Views : 1146
posté July 28, 2014, 22:14:49 | #12

Quote (Neneko88 @ 28 July 2014 21:58) *
He didn't listen to the players.
While he might not have listened to everything everyone wanted, he still listened to people. Some of the biggest proofs can be found in the Eni revamps and some of the changes that occured in the Sadida Revamp.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #758060  Replies : 50  Views : 1146
posté July 28, 2014, 20:19:41 | #13

Quote (rmw1 @ 27 July 2014 23:36) *
The entire Sadi class needs another rebalance. Grou had quite literally screwed up every class he got his nasty fingers on, and he was removed. If you look at the updated Sram revamp you will see that the new team actually knows what they are doing. The new Sram looks amazing. Hopefully Sadi will get hit by them very soon.
*laughs indefinitely*
You'll find a lot of people believe that Grou did good on a lot of classes, most people just complain about his work on sadida.

People who believe Grou didnt have a hand in the most recent sram revamp might want to rethink that. And while I dont have paper proof of someone saying Grou was a part of this recent one, well here's a couple points. We all know Ankama's speed on the matter of making new classes, usually about 1-2 months to have it on paper and in beta for testing. Plus the new sram revamp was announce and somewhat functioning less than a week from Grou's announced step down from class revamps.
With that in mind, I think its safe to say that the people behind the new class revamps didnt come up with their design and have in programmed in in what would probably be world record time for Ankama getting anything done.

Although we could always ask to see if he did play a part just to make sure.


This post has been edited by smallz117 - July 28, 2014, 20:27:05.
Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #758032  Replies : 50  Views : 1146
posté July 28, 2014, 20:02:05 | #14
The good news is the upcoming resist changes should make dolls a bit more powerful, especially help out that problem with the 60% of sadida's mastery on air dolls. From what I've gathered that should be next update, but i havent tested them enough on beta to have any actual info i can give you on if air dolls will become a reliable source of good damage, but they are better at dealing damage.


Thread : Sadida  Preview message : #758030  Replies : 23  Views : 1624
posté July 25, 2014, 20:01:44 | #15

Quote (Graveraider @ 25 July 2014 19:48) *
Final damage calculate as % to element or THE FINAL (like 100 +30% = 130)?
Final damage calculates for The Final Damage dealt to the target, meaning if you would deal 1000 damage to a target after crits and %damage calculations, with +20% Final Damage you now deal 1200 damage to the target.


Thread : Sram  Preview message : #757251  Replies : 43  Views : 4111
posté July 25, 2014, 17:21:32 | #16

Quote (Graveraider @ 25 July 2014 16:56) *

Quote (xCATZILAx @ 25 July 2014 14:59) *
Srams are supposed to be a high damage (burst damage) close combat assassins. They are not supposed to be stealth damage dealers, that is just an extra benefit of the class.
I couldn't see it from stream game play. Looks like fire range dd to me.


Quote (smallz117 @ 25 July 2014 15:24) *
On a side note, for the air branch, air has the unnatural ability to kite and deal damage, with a double out, you can always use a 4ap spell to damage a target and then place two air traps (assuming you level them up for damage) to deal some decent damage while most likely sending your target too far away to be able to cause you any problems. After that you still have your ranged spells in other branches you can use if you stated into one of those spells.

Also very strange when class positioned as "assassin" and have full element branch of utility skills with little damage. Of course its still beta and we will see it rebalanced, but I have really bad feeling about air school.
A lot of the damage potential comes from the fact that srams should easily have a higher crit chance than most classes combined with the +% final damage they get from their spells/specialties.

The current Max +% final damage you can achieve is +60%, which is fairly massive, and as to my knowledge that it would take place after crit calculations.
This means you can deal up to 2.4x your non-crit base damages on your finisher spells.

Air also feels more like a branch based around utilization of getting in and out when you want to assassinate someone, especially when they are on the backline.
Is it the greatest damage branch? Not really.
Is it the most equipped for assassination with safe engage and safe escape? Hell yea. And adding the fire branch to it makes it even more potent at it.


Thread : Sram  Preview message : #757192  Replies : 43  Views : 4111
posté July 25, 2014, 15:24:33 | #17
The entire point of Invis looks to be traps with a finishing spell at the end.

Turn 1: Double, Invis, place traps (preferably fire for damage)
Double: Deal damage and push target onto traps
Turn 2: place traps, use high damage air spell (assuming you stacked weakness beforehand, hopefully backstab)
Double: deal damage and push target onto traps

Works well in this manner with the fire and air branch. Assuming you are fire/air this might be one of the more damaging combos you can pull off.

___________________________

On a side note, for the air branch, air has the unnatural ability to kite and deal damage, with a double out, you can always use a 4ap spell to damage a target and then place two air traps (assuming you level them up for damage) to deal some decent damage while most likely sending your target too far away to be able to cause you any problems. After that you still have your ranged spells in other branches you can use if you stated into one of those spells.


This post has been edited by smallz117 - July 25, 2014, 15:32:06.
Thread : Sram  Preview message : #757152  Replies : 43  Views : 4111