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Al Howin's Day
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Lets discuss Critical Hit Resistance ^^
Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2012-01-12
posté April 02, 2013, 17:44:58 | #21
I see no problem in counting CH as 1,5 of the base damage because Ankama has changed them all to that value (or at least the majority) but if you can check the crit base it's always safer. There are not many special cases like the "All In" spell. The ideas of total damage modificators are very naive, it would be far too easy to achieve gamebreaking damage. You would be able to build up double backstab or critical hits using common items  


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2010-11-29
posté April 02, 2013, 22:27:09 | #22

Quote
couple of months ago I tested the damage formula. one of the things i found is that hitting the back is 1.25 final damage multiplier (side is same but 1.15 or 1.1 don't remember exactly)
Hitting the back is 1,33.

And just check this website: Click here

That's right.

~ Old Kahiiji


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2010-05-04
posté April 02, 2013, 22:38:02 | #23

Quote (GJTora @ 02 April 2013 22:27) *

Quote
couple of months ago I tested the damage formula. one of the things i found is that hitting the back is 1.25 final damage multiplier (side is same but 1.15 or 1.1 don't remember exactly)
Hitting the back is 1,33.

And just check this website: Click here

That's right.

~ Old Kahiiji

Thats a player written guide and it is a bit outdated too because you dont get "total spell level / 5 %damage" anymore.

Anyway i already quoted you a Dev who stated that it is 1.25 multiplier.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-11-11
posté April 04, 2013, 10:25:16 | #24

Quote (LioVamp @ 02 April 2013 11:41) *
why don't you people stop calling everyone noobs and just prove your words from in-game tests

couple of months ago I tested the damage formula.
one of the things i found is that hitting the back is 1.25 final damage multiplier
(side is same but 1.15 or 1.1 don't remember exactly)
did not have the +crit dmg and +back protection stuff at that time to test, but i do believe it's plain +elemental dmg/res


and yes, critting has nothing to do with 1.5 multiplications, it just uses spell's base dmg from critical tab
The critical tab is the regular tab, multiplied by 1.5,

which is 1.5x final damage...

....


Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2010-11-04
posté April 04, 2013, 13:44:41 | #25

Quote (HateSpawn @ 04 April 2013 10:25) *

Quote (LioVamp @ 02 April 2013 11:41) *
why don't you people stop calling everyone noobs and just prove your words from in-game tests

couple of months ago I tested the damage formula.
one of the things i found is that hitting the back is 1.25 final damage multiplier
(side is same but 1.15 or 1.1 don't remember exactly)
did not have the +crit dmg and +back protection stuff at that time to test, but i do believe it's plain +elemental dmg/res


and yes, critting has nothing to do with 1.5 multiplications, it just uses spell's base dmg from critical tab
The critical tab is the regular tab, multiplied by 1.5,

which is 1.5x final damage...

....
Strictly speaking however the game does not treat it as a multiplier - they could easily code it that the critical for a spell did the same damage as the spell did in the first place. As such it isn't really logical to code, for instance, +100% critical hit damage to change the multiplier from 50% to 100%, because there is no actual multiplier in the first place. If a spell had the same critical hit damage as the normal hit damage, then what should such a calculation do to the damage? Obviously that calculation doesn't really make sense if you consider the +CH damage to change the multiplier (since there is no hard coded multiplier).

It's true that they typically make critical hits do 1.5x damage, but that is not by the actual game engine - and I'm fairly certain there have been some bugged abilities in the past where it was not 1.5x damage.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-11-11
posté April 04, 2013, 16:26:54 | #26

Quote (Onamuk @ 04 April 2013 13:44) *

Quote (HateSpawn @ 04 April 2013 10:25) *

Quote (LioVamp @ 02 April 2013 11:41) *
why don't you people stop calling everyone noobs and just prove your words from in-game tests

couple of months ago I tested the damage formula.
one of the things i found is that hitting the back is 1.25 final damage multiplier
(side is same but 1.15 or 1.1 don't remember exactly)
did not have the +crit dmg and +back protection stuff at that time to test, but i do believe it's plain +elemental dmg/res


and yes, critting has nothing to do with 1.5 multiplications, it just uses spell's base dmg from critical tab
The critical tab is the regular tab, multiplied by 1.5,

which is 1.5x final damage...

....
Strictly speaking however the game does not treat it as a multiplier - they could easily code it that the critical for a spell did the same damage as the spell did in the first place. As such it isn't really logical to code, for instance, +100% critical hit damage to change the multiplier from 50% to 100%, because there is no actual multiplier in the first place. If a spell had the same critical hit damage as the normal hit damage, then what should such a calculation do to the damage? Obviously that calculation doesn't really make sense if you consider the +CH damage to change the multiplier (since there is no hard coded multiplier).

It's true that they typically make critical hits do 1.5x damage, but that is not by the actual game engine - and I'm fairly certain there have been some bugged abilities in the past where it was not 1.5x damage.
Okay, with the exception of some bugged spells, crits are 1.5x final damage.


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2010-01-04
posté July 02, 2013, 08:37:14 | #27
So what would be better? Considering you always get a crit and are Hitting from behind: 60 base damage attack + 500% elemental damage boost ->with EITHER 50% crit bonus OR 50%backstab bonus. Assuming the target has 0 resist. What would the damages be..? I want to finally know which would be better...


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-11-11
posté July 02, 2013, 08:44:59 | #28

Quote (Longjevity @ 02 July 2013 08:37) *
So what would be better? Considering you always get a crit and are Hitting from behind: 60 base damage attack + 500% elemental damage boost ->with EITHER 50% crit bonus OR 50%backstab bonus. Assuming the target has 0 resist. What would the damages be..? I want to finally know which would be better...
You'd hit for 507 on backstab dmg instance, but CHD va Backstab bonus is just dependant on if you crit more or get backstab more.


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2010-01-04
posté July 02, 2013, 08:59:46 | #29

Quote (HateSpawn @ 02 July 2013 08:44) *

Quote (Longjevity @ 02 July 2013 08:37) *
So what would be better? Considering you always get a crit and are Hitting from behind: 60 base damage attack + 500% elemental damage boost ->with EITHER 50% crit bonus OR 50%backstab bonus. Assuming the target has 0 resist. What would the damages be..? I want to finally know which would be better...
You'd hit for 507 on backstab dmg instance, but CHD va Backstab bonus is just dependant on if you crit more or get backstab more.
This is just assuming you hit from the back AND crit. As in which can pontentially do the most damage


This post has been edited by Longjevity - July 02, 2013, 09:01:59.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-11-11
posté July 02, 2013, 17:28:34 | #30

Quote (Longjevity @ 02 July 2013 08:59) *

Quote (HateSpawn @ 02 July 2013 08:44) *

Quote (Longjevity @ 02 July 2013 08:37) *
So what would be better? Considering you always get a crit and are Hitting from behind: 60 base damage attack + 500% elemental damage boost ->with EITHER 50% crit bonus OR 50%backstab bonus. Assuming the target has 0 resist. What would the damages be..? I want to finally know which would be better...
You'd hit for 507 on backstab dmg instance, but CHD va Backstab bonus is just dependant on if you crit more or get backstab more.
This is just assuming you hit from the back AND crit. As in which can pontentially do the most damage
SO, lemme understand this

Sram F uses spell A on target G, F crits A on G's back, and then your question is which would hit harder,

if A had +50% crit damage or +50% backstab damage?

Well, crit damage is just elemental damage that ONLY happens on crits, and backstab is damage that only happens on backstab (shocker!)

so the question in this situation can be shortened to:

Which is better? 50% damage or 50% damage.

So.. Yeah.


Mister Winter Fashion Victim 2012 * Member Since 2012-12-16
posté July 02, 2013, 17:55:50 | #31

Quote (Longjevity @ 02 July 2013 08:59) *

Quote (HateSpawn @ 02 July 2013 08:44) *

Quote (Longjevity @ 02 July 2013 08:37) *
So what would be better? Considering you always get a crit and are Hitting from behind: 60 base damage attack + 500% elemental damage boost ->with EITHER 50% crit bonus OR 50%backstab bonus. Assuming the target has 0 resist. What would the damages be..? I want to finally know which would be better...
You'd hit for 507 on backstab dmg instance, but CHD va Backstab bonus is just dependant on if you crit more or get backstab more.
This is just assuming you hit from the back AND crit. As in which can pontentially do the most damage

You can't really ask this like HateSpawn said a few posts prior. It's very dependent on how many critical hits you have, how easy you can reach backstab, and your class.

As a Xelor for example, I can easily reach backstab and have 50% CH, but I benefit more from the backstab because of dial giving it to me easily. I have backstab more than 50% of the time, while I'll only critical hit 50% of the time. But then of course, I can critical hit in either situation of backstab or non-backstab, while if I cannot reach backstab, then I can only benefit from critical hit damage and not backstab damage.

A Sram may always benefit more from backstab, since they generally can attack from the back in most occasions. That doesn't mean CH damage isn't beneficial too, because it is.

Those who aim for high CH will always find CHD a good supplementary source of damage. Those who are aiming to strike from the rear consistently will find the backstab damage is more beneficial to them.

It's entirely situational, but my vote goes to CHD in general terms.

• Mango


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-01-05
posté July 02, 2013, 18:05:45 | #32

Quote (HateSpawn @ 02 July 2013 17:28) *

Quote (Longjevity @ 02 July 2013 08:59) *

Quote (HateSpawn @ 02 July 2013 08:44) *

Quote (Longjevity @ 02 July 2013 08:37) *
So what would be better? Considering you always get a crit and are Hitting from behind: 60 base damage attack + 500% elemental damage boost ->with EITHER 50% crit bonus OR 50%backstab bonus. Assuming the target has 0 resist. What would the damages be..? I want to finally know which would be better...
You'd hit for 507 on backstab dmg instance, but CHD va Backstab bonus is just dependant on if you crit more or get backstab more.
This is just assuming you hit from the back AND crit. As in which can pontentially do the most damage
SO, lemme understand this

Sram F uses spell A on target G, F crits A on G's back, and then your question is which would hit harder,

if A had +50% crit damage or +50% backstab damage?

Well, crit damage is just elemental damage that ONLY happens on crits, and backstab is damage that only happens on backstab (shocker!)

so the question in this situation can be shortened to:

Which is better? 50% damage or 50% damage.

So.. Yeah.

I see what you did there.