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TommyTrouble, Your misson if you choose to accept it.
Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-02-25
posté May 10, 2013, 02:01:14 | #41

Quote (HakazabaJub @ 10 May 2013 01:35) *

Quote (BrainInAJar @ 10 May 2013 01:31) *

Quote (HakazabaJub @ 09 May 2013 00:39) *
What makes you think that?
It makes a massive amount of gear unusable for healers and hybrid healers unviable.
I think everyone just gave up from Ankamas silence.
imperial healer epps give general damage. lol. good job designers.
Totally not a bug :p

Well it does give +25% heal too, so nope not a bug


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté May 10, 2013, 02:32:34 | #42

Quote (Chrolo @ 10 May 2013 02:01) *

Quote (HakazabaJub @ 10 May 2013 01:35) *

Quote (BrainInAJar @ 10 May 2013 01:31) *

Quote (HakazabaJub @ 09 May 2013 00:39) *
What makes you think that?
It makes a massive amount of gear unusable for healers and hybrid healers unviable.
I think everyone just gave up from Ankamas silence.
imperial healer epps give general damage. lol. good job designers.
Totally not a bug :p

Well it does give +25% heal too, so nope not a bug
Ivory epaulettes I rest my case.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-02-25
posté May 10, 2013, 02:52:06 | #43

Quote (HakazabaJub @ 10 May 2013 02:32) *

Quote (Chrolo @ 10 May 2013 02:01) *

Quote (HakazabaJub @ 10 May 2013 01:35) *

Quote (BrainInAJar @ 10 May 2013 01:31) *

Quote (HakazabaJub @ 09 May 2013 00:39) *
What makes you think that?
It makes a massive amount of gear unusable for healers and hybrid healers unviable.
I think everyone just gave up from Ankamas silence.
imperial healer epps give general damage. lol. good job designers.
Totally not a bug :p

Well it does give +25% heal too, so nope not a bug
Ivory epaulettes I rest my case.
so? excarnus gives water damage and heals too.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2012-06-03
posté May 10, 2013, 21:53:05 | #44
point is legendary craft epps with "healer" in the name are worse for healers (in terms of how it buffs heals) than even a level 59 orange eppaulette. more like imperial tank eppaulettes, AMIRITE.

and this is by design?


This post has been edited by BrainInAJar - May 10, 2013, 21:55:33.
Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-02-25
posté May 11, 2013, 00:44:51 | #45

Quote (BrainInAJar @ 10 May 2013 21:53) *
point is legendary craft epps with "healer" in the name are worse for healers (in terms of how it buffs heals) than even a level 59 orange eppaulette. more like imperial tank eppaulettes, AMIRITE.

and this is by design?

Thats like saying that
Click here
is worse than
Click here
because it gives no +summon damage.

Also those epus are right what he is looking for... +heals for healing and +general damage for his hybrid builds...


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté May 11, 2013, 02:41:38 | #46

Quote (Chrolo @ 11 May 2013 00:44) *

Quote (BrainInAJar @ 10 May 2013 21:53) *
point is legendary craft epps with "healer" in the name are worse for healers (in terms of how it buffs heals) than even a level 59 orange eppaulette. more like imperial tank eppaulettes, AMIRITE.

and this is by design?

Thats like saying that
Click here
is worse than
Click here
because it gives no +summon damage.

Also those epus are right what he is looking for... +heals for healing and +general damage for his hybrid builds...
It is worse for a summoner who wants to get the most out of their summons, especially ones you take set bonuses into account.
Those eppaulettes are the only armor in the entire game that other than another pair of eppaulettes that are simmilar, you cant build a character around a single pair of eppaulettes and epecially cant when a level 59 character can out gear you.

If this was by design, then we would not see +heals on water damage sets because that's giving a double bonus to healers unless it is intended that healers be better at healing than damage dealers are at damaging, we would find it exclusivity on all damage sets. Heck, heal resist is probably just them sticking a bandaid on that issue aswell.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-02-25
posté May 11, 2013, 03:17:12 | #47
The point i was making is that legendary crafts give you a balanced set of stats, with one focus.
Ofc you can go and wear your level 59 Epus thinking that your 3% heal will make you survive more than 120 hp and 16% resist

There is nothing out there that gives you 25% heal 16% resist and 120 hp without set bonus or anything.

Ever thought that they dont want you do do good damage and good heal? Thats why they divide the water damage and heal on some equips. So you still do okaish damage but heal exceptional.
The other extreme would be lousy damage and still only exceptional heal when they give you no water damage and only +heals.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté May 13, 2013, 00:25:03 | #48
The thing is they don't divide it, The only place we find +heal in any decent quantity is on high level water sets that also have high water damage.


Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2010-11-05
posté May 13, 2013, 00:48:18 | #49
If ALL ELEMENTAL DAMAGE should not give healing buffs, then water damage should not give healing buffs either, seeing as water is in fact one of the elements, and as such an all elemental damage buff should give water damage. Regardless of if it's intended or not or balance concerns, this is a ridiculous logic gap - one would think that an all elemental damage buff would... give a buff to all elemental damage. Currently it does not.


As far as balance etc. is concerned, these things can be fixed in better ways, having a game with rules that aren't just not intuitive but blatantly inconsistent is silly.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté May 13, 2013, 01:58:42 | #50

Quote (Onamuk @ 13 May 2013 00:48) *
If ALL ELEMENTAL DAMAGE should not give healing buffs, then water damage should not give healing buffs either, seeing as water is in fact one of the elements, and as such an all elemental damage buff should give water damage. Regardless of if it's intended or not or balance concerns, this is a ridiculous logic gap - one would think that an all elemental damage buff would... give a buff to all elemental damage. Currently it does not.


As far as balance etc. is concerned, these things can be fixed in better ways, having a game with rules that aren't just not intuitive but blatantly inconsistent is silly.
I agree, i think it would take a lot more work for Ankama to revamp all equipment for heals than to include general damage. Though either would fix that logic gap.


Community Manager * Member Since 2012-03-01
posté May 13, 2013, 09:40:55 | #51
I just got confirmation that yes, this is an intended feature.

The reason is that Heals already have their own dedicated bonus, and cumulating this bonus with the “damage all” bonus would just make it too strong.

Also, heals do not currently take resists into account, whereas damages do. Damage bonuses are calculated with this in mind, which makes inadequate for heals.



Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2011-05-04
posté May 13, 2013, 11:03:32 | #52

Quote (Troyle @ 13 May 2013 09:40) *
I just got confirmation that yes, this is an intended feature.

The reason is that Heals already have their own dedicated bonus, and cumulating this bonus with the “damage all” bonus would just make it too strong.

Also, heals do not currently take resists into account, whereas damages do. Damage bonuses are calculated with this in mind, which makes inadequate for heals.
This sounds ominous.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-03-04
posté May 13, 2013, 12:24:10 | #53
Lol will water eni suddenly be terrible at healing characters who focus in their own water tree? Though that may force a water party to bring ... a fire eni or several earth osas? Since masks, ecaflips, and sadidas use water to heal.

Or do they just intend to further nerf unnatural remidies


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté May 13, 2013, 12:32:50 | #54
If its the case of unnatural remedies, then they should simply modify this state itself instead of making heal not get bonus from dmg%. Or they should simply replace items with general dmg % to give air,fire,water,earth element dmg % instead so that class that have dmg% to boost all elements won't suffer for the lack of heal.

The solution could be that unnatural remedies make heal turn into damage but in same time make heal spells take resist of target into account.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - May 13, 2013, 12:33:36.
Short Strich * Member Since 2013-02-12
posté May 13, 2013, 14:49:51 | #55

Quote (Troyle @ 13 May 2013 09:40) *
I just got confirmation that yes, this is an intended feature.

The reason is that Heals already have their own dedicated bonus, and cumulating this bonus with the “damage all” bonus would just make it too strong.

Also, heals do not currently take resists into account, whereas damages do. Damage bonuses are calculated with this in mind, which makes inadequate for heals.
Then why does it cumulate with water damage bonus? Why is water damage considered different wrt making heals too strong?


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-02-25
posté May 13, 2013, 15:22:07 | #56

Quote (erisolsprite @ 13 May 2013 14:49) *

Quote (Troyle @ 13 May 2013 09:40) *
I just got confirmation that yes, this is an intended feature.

The reason is that Heals already have their own dedicated bonus, and cumulating this bonus with the “damage all” bonus would just make it too strong.

Also, heals do not currently take resists into account, whereas damages do. Damage bonuses are calculated with this in mind, which makes inadequate for heals.
Then why does it cumulate with water damage bonus? Why is water damage considered different wrt making heals too strong?
Because +heals is for heals and +general damage is for damages, while elemental damage bonus is inbetween for all builds. (Stasis being an exception)

Ofc we can make heal only sets and have heal statable and make the healing branches heal element, but i dont think you want that, do you?  


Short Strich * Member Since 2013-02-12
posté May 13, 2013, 18:41:06 | #57
The point is why gaining more healing from general damage sets like vampyro and kraken(which still give rather moderate damage) is considered too strong while gaining healing from dedicated water sets, that also tend to often give +heals too, isn't.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-02-25
posté May 13, 2013, 18:51:23 | #58

Quote (erisolsprite @ 13 May 2013 18:41) *
The point is why gaining more healing from general damage sets like vampyro and kraken(which still give rather moderate damage) is considered too strong while gaining healing from dedicated water sets, that also tend to often give +heals too, isn't.

They consider getting it from water damage, general damage and +heals too strong.
Its not too strong if you wear vampyro, they never said that.

There is no real equip with water damage and general damage right now, but you dont know about the future.


Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2010-11-05
posté May 13, 2013, 19:04:27 | #59
The real problem with this isn't the actual balance concerns - the problem is that abilities/stats in this game *do not do what they say they do*. The actual design of a game and the balance of the game can almost always be treated seperately - if heals are too powerful you can reduce their base damage etc. for instance instead of changing the actual game mechanics.


Heals working like this is akin to having an item in the game that says '+9000% damage', but since that would be too overpowered, we'll make that item have normal stats and only *say* on the item that it has +9000% damage, and not even care that what the item actually does is completely different from what it says it does.


There are other ways to balance healing without screwing around with the game mechanics - it's important to keep the actual design of the game and the balance seperate, since you can almost always fix the balance by tweaking the actual numbers of things - but you can't do that with bad design.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-03-04
posté May 14, 2013, 01:21:54 | #60
Is there a class that is going to have healing in the air branch? We have fire and earth healing, if they want to increase their healing ability they get that nifty extra water damage... that doesn't help them.

Though I wonder if water damage boosts increase all heals regardless of element?

They were clever with the osas though. The set up spell is earth, but the healing is cast by the gobgob, and is a water spell. An osa passive converts their earth damage to a water damage bonus for their gobgob. Just realized this as I was typing. I had wondered why the gobgob delt water damage and why osas had that passive, it compleatly sidesteps the problems that earth based healing might cause.

So fire eni's who Have a specific passive are currently the only ones really left out by water damage boosting water based heals.

Will heal resist stack with my water resist later?