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Brains vs time investment
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-11-11
posté May 14, 2013, 17:57:14 | #1
Brains vs time investment Basically the question is does Intelligence of the player actually matter if they invest more time into the game?

I'm tired of thread(s) being derailed with this, so lets keep the discussion here.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2012-06-02
posté May 14, 2013, 18:36:58 | #2
market + mining = intelligence + grinding

mining is a larger time investment or the same results, in terms of gear.


This post has been edited by BrainInAJar - May 14, 2013, 18:38:04.
Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2011-08-07
posté May 14, 2013, 18:52:33 | #3

Quote (BrainInAJar @ 14 May 2013 18:36) *
market + mining = intelligence + grinding

mining is a larger time investment or the same results, in terms of gear.
Not necessarily, at least on Remington there some sets which are impossible to obtain for miners. Also after the Frigost update it's become a lot more crucial to have a team that can think on they're feet.

Because of this I hardly ever make groups with randoms, Ive gotten sick of randoms messing up or having to tell them what to do. Although I think that 'miners' are still able to 'keep' up to intelligent/grind players interms of sets I feel like it's become a lot harder than it was a few months ago.

Also on a further note if your intelligent, thats something that takes no time investment/effort, whilst mining requires quite a bit of time and effort.


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2010-10-06
posté May 14, 2013, 18:58:29 | #4
Everything is grinding.

And on topic yes, the more you invest the better your gear (should be unless your sitting around) is thus allows you to make more mistakes in some situations.

However some things require a certain amount of gear to even attempt( BC, Mag etc) it's all the same though just varying degrees.

Usually someone who has gotten time invested gear is intelligent anyways( unless gotten maliciously or some other evil way/lazy beg, seen it happen with moo and gobsage).

I always question whether I should even be investing time if more people don't start playing won't the game just die and it will all be a waste?

Meh vidja gaimz


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2011-02-04
posté May 14, 2013, 20:46:53 | #5

Quote (HateSpawn @ 14 May 2013 17:57) *
Basically the question is does Intelligence of the player actually matter if they invest more time into the game?
From the pvp standpoint, yes to an extent, but you can't win against some douchebag with 6 characters no matter how good you are.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-02
posté May 14, 2013, 21:20:43 | #6
This game does not require 'intelligence'

They say its a strategy game but the strategy component is extremely minimal....

You need TIME to invest in this game. LOTS and LOTS of time, for all you do is grind.. grind for gear, grind for levels, grindddd grindddd grindddd .... =/

In pvp, yes you need a little bit of brains but it all comes down to your class and the ever so growing gap between 'support' toons and dpt toons.

You still can't win against the douche bag whose's class is more op by retarded design + has invested more time into grinding/buying gear. =/


Fansite Operator * Member Since 2007-03-16
posté May 14, 2013, 22:00:09 | #7
Intelligence will lessen the time it takes to achieve some goals within the game. However , in general , my answer would be no. This game isn't generally speaking about intelligence so much as it is about how much time you can put into it(as are almost all MMO's i've played). The tactical aspects of the game exist but they are generally focused on very specific areas.

I dont really see how people can get upset about this though. Its very clear this game is targeted for an age group that in general is significantly younter than the American player base. The dev's have even mentioned this before. I don't get upset that my daughter's Dora explorer game doesn't challenge me intellectually , I'm not sure why ppl get so upset that Wakfu doesn't either.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté May 14, 2013, 22:08:00 | #8
Setup some PvE dungeons or PvP with identical teams and identical gear. If one team continually beats or out performs another can you say they are *smarter* Wakfu players.

Does some content require a certain level of gear? Yes. Does some content require a certain intelligence? YES.

If Wakfu didn't require brains or make people think, we wouldn't even be on these forums discussing any number of subjects. Damage calculations, team setups, starting positions, stat values, UB's, you name it. You can all argue until you're blue in the face about how much intelligence is required, that depends on the person. But please, do not say it requires none at all. People spend years playing these games and do not get the best gear.

There are players out there coming up with the strategies you all use to beat some encounters. I'm not saying they're smarter than you, I'm saying they figured something out you didn't.

MMO's are grinding games. Games of all types make you think.


Quote (stryve @ 14 May 2013 22:00) *
Intelligence will lessen the time it takes to achieve some goals within the game. However , in general , my answer would be no. This game isn't generally speaking about intelligence so much as it is about how much time you can put into it(as are almost all MMO's i've played). The tactical aspects of the game exist but they are generally focused on very specific areas.

I dont really see how people can get upset about this though. Its very clear this game is targeted for an age group that in general is significantly younter than the American player base. The dev's have even mentioned this before. I don't get upset that my daughter's Dora explorer game doesn't challenge me intellectually , I'm not sure why ppl get so upset that Wakfu doesn't either.

Are you out there winning every PvP or PvE fight? Unless you answered yes, the game and the players in it must be challenging you. Can you beat Magmog? Can you win all PvP tournaments?

Create and run one of the top guilds. The best players are out there and will challenge each other. I won't argue the time needed to put into these games. If you want to challenge yourself against EQUAL opposition you need the gear to do it. Once you're there it's human vs human.

Play chess, seems easy enough doesn't it. The rules are much shorter than wakfu. Is everyone here claiming chess isn't a challenge? Go out and be the world champion then.

@Boredom: Just because people don't choose to challenge themselves in an MMO doesn't mean the game is "My Little Pony" You want to know the challenge I face every time i log in? Beating all the endgame content in as much PP gear as possible while still winning the fights reliably. This reduces time spent in game and keeps me at the top level without having to spend 8 hours a day online that I don't have.


This post has been edited by Gynrei - May 14, 2013, 22:27:27.
Fansite Operator * Member Since 2007-03-16
posté May 14, 2013, 22:32:54 | #9

Quote (Gynrei @ 14 May 2013 22:08) *

@Boredom: Just because people don't choose to challenge themselves in an MMO doesn't mean the game is "My Little Pony" You want to know the challenge I face every time i log in? Beating all the endgame content in as much PP gear as possible while still winning the fights reliably. This reduces time spent in game and keeps me at the top level without having to spend 8 hours a day online that I don't have.
I think you might have misunderstood my point. I'm not saying you aren't intelligent, or that you cannot play this game intelligently. Nor that having intelligence doesn't impact your game experience. Obviously it will. Nor did i say the game wasn't challenging.

The question was asked Brains vs time investment. I'm stating time investment. Your argument is that your brains are reducing your time investment and that's absolutely correct. It also further enforces my statement. This is a game of time investment. Your brains are a multiplier that either reduces or increases that time investment.

All that being said, you cant win a fight as a level 10 against a level 110 and it has -nothing- to do with your brains. Its directly related to the time investment on that character.

edit: typo fix..


This post has been edited by stryve - May 14, 2013, 22:33:31.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté May 14, 2013, 23:18:31 | #10

Quote (aquabeauty @ 14 May 2013 21:20) *
This game does not require 'intelligence'

They say its a strategy game but the strategy component is extremely minimal....

You need TIME to invest in this game. LOTS and LOTS of time, for all you do is grind.. grind for gear, grind for levels, grindddd grindddd grindddd .... =/

In pvp, yes you need a little bit of brains but it all comes down to your class and the ever so growing gap between 'support' toons and dpt toons.

You still can't win against the douche bag whose's class is more op by retarded design + has invested more time into grinding/buying gear. =/

Others imply the game requires no intelligence, as per the bolded line above. Which means anyone that needs to actually think hard about how to accomplish something must be below their intelligence. I can see why people get offended or upset easily.

I certainly didn't take it that way Boredom. You're right, you answered the topic. I'd choose the same, time is more important. Simply because other people can carry you through all manner of content. Most (all?) level/gear based MMO's follow this model.


Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2012-03-10
posté May 15, 2013, 02:15:31 | #11

Quote (stryve @ 14 May 2013 22:00) *
Intelligence will lessen the time it takes to achieve some goals within the game. However , in general , my answer would be no. This game isn't generally speaking about intelligence so much as it is about how much time you can put into it(as are almost all MMO's i've played). The tactical aspects of the game exist but they are generally focused on very specific areas.

I dont really see how people can get upset about this though. Its very clear this game is targeted for an age group that in general is significantly younter than the American player base. The dev's have even mentioned this before. I don't get upset that my daughter's Dora explorer game doesn't challenge me intellectually , I'm not sure why ppl get so upset that Wakfu doesn't either.
Boredom well put. People in this game are way too sensitive.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-02-20
posté May 15, 2013, 02:40:30 | #12

Quote (aquabeauty @ 14 May 2013 21:20) *
This game does not require 'intelligence'

They say its a strategy game but the strategy component is extremely minimal....

You need TIME to invest in this game. LOTS and LOTS of time, for all you do is grind.. grind for gear, grind for levels, grindddd grindddd grindddd .... =/

In pvp, yes you need a little bit of brains but it all comes down to your class and the ever so growing gap between 'support' toons and dpt toons.

You still can't win against the douche bag whose's class is more op by retarded design + has invested more time into grinding/buying gear. =/
I promise that if you give everyone the same high level gear not everyone will be able to kill BC and Magmog.

This is an MMO. You grind. This provides hours of gameplay and is how all MMORPGs function. There are always going to be classes better suited for PvP or PvE. Support classes arent supposed to be good in PvP. The only way to make every class viable in PvP is to make every class DPT.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté May 15, 2013, 04:26:49 | #13
I think if you just leech/powerlevel yourself to max level like an Iop-brain, then you're gonna lag behind on a lot of other important things, like crafting.

This is a tactical game, so it does require some planning and strategic thinking to get through the game. If you're going a cookie-cutter route that many others have done already, then you aren't really doing much thinking.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-12-12
posté May 15, 2013, 05:33:02 | #14

Quote (Asthis @ 15 May 2013 04:26) *
I think if you just leech/powerlevel yourself to max level like an Iop-brain, then you're gonna lag behind on a lot of other important things, like crafting.


Sorry but reach high levels then get back and farm materials is much easier. Farming materials to craft as a lowbies is just waste time and effort. Look at those luxury recipes, I don't think they has been make to help lowbies get good items, they more like make u get hard to raise craft levels.

most stuffs in wakfu aren't friendly for newbies/lowbies, they suppose to be hard and unique.


This post has been edited by Boorin - May 15, 2013, 05:43:28.
Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-01-05
posté May 15, 2013, 07:51:43 | #15
I do not understand how people discuss the initial question...

Of course intelligence influences your performance of the game. Anyone who denies this has to live on another planet or something... Wether I have a 3 year old who only attacks a single mob when there are groups right next to that lined up for aoe attacks and having him end his turns with the back to the enemies or wether I do it and use my moves correctly is a difference.

The only question that remains wether there is a big difference or not and how to classify Wakfu then.

I have the feeling that all the people in this thread who want to deny Wakfu the characteristics of a real strategy game are exaggerating to no end. It is mostly the same people that feel betrayed or mistreated by the game lately due to having classes nerfed etc.

As somebody else pointed out I would like to make a practical test here and send identical teams into batle with different players and see how well they are doing. I can promise you there would be a huge, and I mean a huge difference in outcome as soon as those battles start to get slightly demanding.

If what the people here arguing were true we would have 90% of the server would be beating bcs and magmog senseless nowadays since you only need to get to lvl100 in some average equip. I mean hey, someone beat them in such a constellation at least once, right? So if there is no strategy involved anyone can.

I am looking forward to that nooblet UB beating contest in that regard btw. Should be fun to see how big the skill differences are there. People do not seem to realize how many details play a role in Wakfu and while there are certainly games with more strategical depth involved I wouldn't underestimate it here.

As for time investment making up for skill. That is what an MMO eventually boils down to. Not much you can do there. Being a successful merchant is at least a skill on its own, being able to mine your own money however always has been a retarded game mechanic.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-04-19
posté May 15, 2013, 08:13:29 | #16
I doubt many people will come to the UB contest. The greed thrives endlessly instead of enjoyment and challenges. I'd come but my work shifts refuse to let my mind stay focused in the day time.  


Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2011-08-07
posté May 15, 2013, 09:33:22 | #17

Quote (Shaleigh1 @ 15 May 2013 07:51) *
I do not understand how people discuss the initial question...

Of course intelligence influences your performance of the game. Anyone who denies this has to live on another planet or something... Wether I have a 3 year old who only attacks a single mob when there are groups right next to that lined up for aoe attacks and having him end his turns with the back to the enemies or wether I do it and use my moves correctly is a difference.

The only question that remains wether there is a big difference or not and how to classify Wakfu then.

I have the feeling that all the people in this thread who want to deny Wakfu the characteristics of a real strategy game are exaggerating to no end. It is mostly the same people that feel betrayed or mistreated by the game lately due to having classes nerfed etc.

As somebody else pointed out I would like to make a practical test here and send identical teams into batle with different players and see how well they are doing. I can promise you there would be a huge, and I mean a huge difference in outcome as soon as those battles start to get slightly demanding.

If what the people here arguing were true we would have 90% of the server would be beating bcs and magmog senseless nowadays since you only need to get to lvl100 in some average equip. I mean hey, someone beat them in such a constellation at least once, right? So if there is no strategy involved anyone can.

I am looking forward to that nooblet UB beating contest in that regard btw. Should be fun to see how big the skill differences are there. People do not seem to realize how many details play a role in Wakfu and while there are certainly games with more strategical depth involved I wouldn't underestimate it here.

As for time investment making up for skill. That is what an MMO eventually boils down to. Not much you can do there. Being a successful merchant is at least a skill on its own, being able to mine your own money however always has been a retarded game mechanic.
Very well put.



Quote (Nosferul @ 15 May 2013 08:13) *
I doubt many people will come to the UB contest. The greed thrives endlessly instead of enjoyment and challenges. I'd come but my work shifts refuse to let my mind stay focused in the day time.
I hope alot of people come, im quite excited for it myself

Although level 50 gear does sound harsh...


Fansite Operator * Member Since 2007-03-16
posté May 15, 2013, 14:53:41 | #18

Quote (Shaleigh1 @ 15 May 2013 07:51) *

I am looking forward to that nooblet UB beating contest in that regard btw. Should be fun to see how big the skill differences are there. People do not seem to realize how many details play a role in Wakfu and while there are certainly games with more strategical depth involved I wouldn't underestimate it here.

Yes, I'm interested to see how that goes as well. It reminds me of the old FF7 challenges... Beat the game w/out Materia. Beat the game without engaging in random fight encounters (puts you at like level 27 i think due to required fights)

I've been contemplating going a no spells only dropped items route.(I did a no kills, only leveling by gathering in WoW) The main issue would be getting from level 7-15 or so when i could get a weapon that would even be arguably usable. The biggest problem though is that there is such a large amount of normal grinding required that not using spells to reach cap is less of an achievement and more of a proof of idiocy...still i'm searching for some bizarre way to do something like that.


Senior Moderator * Member Since 2013-04-22
posté May 15, 2013, 21:06:40 | #19
Let's try to keep this discussion civil. If there are personal issues amok, please take them into privacy.

Thanks.

- Moon


Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2012-03-10
posté May 15, 2013, 21:20:33 | #20
Wipe your chin and re-read my post as I gave many examples for you.

Word of advice part 2: read posts in their entirety and don't get caught up on one example that doesn't work for you.