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Brains vs time investment
Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2013-03-30
posté May 16, 2013, 19:36:20 | #41
A lot of people here are trying to twist the question, to fit their agenda.

I'll be direct and say that:
Wakfu favors Power/luck > Skill/Knowledge.

By common sense alone, you know that:
1. a lv60 will plow through a lv20 dungeon.
2. a lv9 could NEVER beat a lv120 in PvP.

There is nothing stopping this, no level down mechanic.. no scaling up content.. NOTHING.

Sure, fighting things your own level "could" be challenging.. but that's NOT what the OP asked.

Point of reference:
"does Intelligence of the player actually matter if they invest more time into the game?"

In other words, the people going on and on about PvP balance, fighting frigost mobs solo or.... chess? o.O... lol, sorry but the question was incredibly simple and even a nub to MMO's knows the answer.

Grinding time in an Typical MMO > Skill/Knowledge.

**YES, things can get easier if you're using your head.. but that's not required and has no affect on the outcome of fights.

Case and point::
Beyond dungeon acheivements for haven gems.. being the best tactician in the world wont guarentee any drops nor the frequency of which you beat something. (Power is all that matters).

Don't believe me?
After the Sadi nerf, when was the last time you seen someone in 5th Ave begging to have a summon Osa or Sadi (or any other underpowered/intelligence required class) join their team to take down a typical dungeon?... let alone a UB.

Underpowered classes require brains to do even remotely as well as a Cra, Iop, Sac, Air Osa, ect... YET, no one wants to group with them.. wouldn't that by definition alone mean that player intelligence doesn't actually matter?

lol, sorry for the rant.. personally, being a summon Osa on Remmington.. I've actually been told that I should respec into Air or simply play another class, because no one wants to group with classes that can't instantly blow up mobs.

@Shaeligh
I've been a part of 3-4 guilds over my sub duration.. and no one has ever mentioned a "single guy that can reliably kill magmog"... so it's obviously NOT common knowledge on Remmington

**Even if there was..
Judging an entire game world based on a single case (one dude + magmog) rather than all of the content in the game is kinda silly (flawed argument).


This post has been edited by ShadowFacts - May 16, 2013, 19:48:31.
Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2008-10-25
posté May 16, 2013, 20:44:35 | #42

Quote (ShadowFacts @ 16 May 2013 19:36) *
A lot of people here are trying to twist the question, to fit their agenda.

I'll be direct and say that:
Wakfu favors Power/luck > Skill/Knowledge.

By common sense alone, you know that:
1. a lv60 will plow through a lv20 dungeon.
2. a lv9 could NEVER beat a lv120 in PvP.

There is nothing stopping this, no level down mechanic.. no scaling up content.. NOTHING.

Sure, fighting things your own level "could" be challenging.. but that's NOT what the OP asked.

Point of reference:
"does Intelligence of the player actually matter if they invest more time into the game?"

In other words, the people going on and on about PvP balance, fighting frigost mobs solo or.... chess? o.O... lol, sorry but the question was incredibly simple and even a nub to MMO's knows the answer.

Grinding time in an Typical MMO > Skill/Knowledge.

**YES, things can get easier if you're using your head.. but that's not required and has no affect on the outcome of fights.

Case and point::
Beyond dungeon acheivements for haven gems.. being the best tactician in the world wont guarentee any drops nor the frequency of which you beat something. (Power is all that matters).

Don't believe me?
After the Sadi nerf, when was the last time you seen someone in 5th Ave begging to have a summon Osa or Sadi (or any other underpowered/intelligence required class) join their team to take down a typical dungeon?... let alone a UB.

Underpowered classes require brains to do even remotely as well as a Cra, Iop, Sac, Air Osa, ect... YET, no one wants to group with them.. wouldn't that by definition alone mean that player intelligence doesn't actually matter?

lol, sorry for the rant.. personally, being a summon Osa on Remmington.. I've actually been told that I should respec into Air or simply play another class, because no one wants to group with classes that can't instantly blow up mobs.

@Shaeligh
I've been a part of 3-4 guilds over my sub duration.. and no one has ever mentioned a "single guy that can reliably kill magmog"... so it's obviously NOT common knowledge on Remmington

**Even if there was..
Judging an entire game world based on a single case (one dude + magmog) rather than all of the content in the game is kinda silly (flawed argument).
Thought you were on a roll till I noticed where you said summon osa is underpowered, when its the probably the strongest by a long shot. I can skip some turns in most fights and still win without the enemy bringing me out of blue hp.

Now how it performs in PvE is a question I have considering I do not leave 5th other than to try out new summons.


This post has been edited by Thejordand - May 16, 2013, 20:46:26.
Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2010-08-21
posté May 16, 2013, 20:53:57 | #43
Time and effort put in of course rewards greater power and and easier time, but don't underestimate the fail a big bunch of stupid can bring to any dungeon or ub run.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2013-03-30
posté May 16, 2013, 21:14:09 | #44

Quote (Thejordand @ 16 May 2013 20:44) *

Quote (ShadowFacts @ 16 May 2013 19:36) *
blargle
Thought you were on a roll till I noticed where you said summon osa is underpowered, when its the probably the strongest by a long shot. I can skip some turns in most fights and still win without the enemy bringing me out of blue hp.

Now how it performs in PvE is a question I have considering I do not leave 5th other than to try out new summons.

lol, Context is your friend
(I wasn't talking about PvP in that sentence you're referencing)


**Even then, a Cra, Iop, Sac or Panda can pretty much destroy a Summon Osa at Max level.
(not gonna get into this specific debate, as it's very much based off of personal experience and pulls the topic off course).

Anywho, the Summon Osa is considered underpowered in PvE or at the very least.. EXTREMELY ANNOYING to group with.

Why?

Because your summons are just more wasted turns and "can" get in the way of others.. thus slowing down battles to a crawl compared to simply bringing another DPS class.

Hell, I've seen people rage at Eni's that summon their little rabbit.

*In a few cases, those people actually kill it on their turn and tell the "noob healer" to either learn how to play or pick a different class.

Meanwhile... I was like.. uh, so you're not gonna kill my summons right? XD

lol, at the end of the day.. wakfu promotes people to play fast and nothing gets in the way of that worse than retarded walking walls that can also hurt YOU. (try the blimprat... seriously wtf dumb mob)


This post has been edited by ShadowFacts - May 16, 2013, 21:44:04.
Reason for edit : wall of text
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté May 16, 2013, 22:01:21 | #45

Quote (ShadowFacts @ 16 May 2013 19:36) *
A lot of people here are trying to twist the question, to fit their agenda.

I'll be direct and say that:
Wakfu favors Power/luck > Skill/Knowledge.

Sure, fighting things your own level "could" be challenging.. but that's NOT what the OP asked.

Point of reference:
"does Intelligence of the player actually matter if they invest more time into the game?"

In other words, the people going on and on about PvP balance, fighting frigost mobs solo or.... chess? o.O... lol, sorry but the question was incredibly simple and even a nub to MMO's knows the answer.

Grinding time in an Typical MMO > Skill/Knowledge.

**YES, things can get easier if you're using your head.. but that's not required and has no affect on the outcome of fights.

Case and point::
Beyond dungeon acheivements for haven gems.. being the best tactician in the world wont guarentee any drops nor the frequency of which you beat something. (Power is all that matters).

Don't believe me?
After the Sadi nerf, when was the last time you seen someone in 5th Ave begging to have a summon Osa or Sadi (or any other underpowered/intelligence required class) join their team to take down a typical dungeon?... let alone a UB.

Underpowered classes require brains to do even remotely as well as a Cra, Iop, Sac, Air Osa, ect... YET, no one wants to group with them.. wouldn't that by definition alone mean that player intelligence doesn't actually matter?

You say the question was so simple even a nub knows the answer. You're implying anyone that doesn't come to the same conclusion you do is less intelligent than a nub (your word). I happen to disagree with most of what you've said.

How can people not twist the question to fit their agenda when the question itself is extremely subjective. He asks if intelligence matters. Matters for what?

Maybe all I want out of Wakfu is to beat the hardest bosses like Magmog and probably Dragon Pig. Currently your skill/intelligence plays a huge part if you expect to beat these bosses. I'm willing to bet if the whole server had their pick of gear to equip themselves with few people would succeed in winning. So Yes, Intelligence does matter.

Maybe all I want from Wakfu is to get all gathering professions to level 100. I can mindless click resources until i reach that goal. In which case it doesn't matter.

The skill/intelligence of the player most certainly affects the frequency they will beat content. The faster and smarter i play, the more runs i can do in a day.

You say using your head has no bearing on the outcome of a fight? Are you kidding me? You even say fighting things your own level could be challenging. Which is it?

If you're basing your thoughts about Wakfu on the information you learn from 5th Bond only, heaven help us.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2013-03-30
posté May 16, 2013, 22:24:36 | #46

Quote (Gynrei @ 16 May 2013 22:01) *

Quote (ShadowFacts @ 16 May 2013 19:36) *
blargle

You say the question was so simple even a nub knows the answer. You're implying anyone that doesn't come to the same conclusion you do is less intelligent than a nub (your word). I happen to disagree with most of what you've said.

How can people not twist the question to fit their agenda when the question itself is extremely subjective. He asks if intelligence matters. Matters for what?

Maybe all I want out of Wakfu is to beat the hardest bosses like Magmog and probably Dragon Pig. Currently your skill/intelligence plays a huge part if you expect to beat these bosses. I'm willing to bet if the whole server had their pick of gear to equip themselves with few people would succeed in winning. So Yes, Intelligence does matter.

Maybe all I want from Wakfu is to get all gathering professions to level 100. I can mindless click resources until i reach that goal. In which case it doesn't matter.

The skill/intelligence of the player most certainly affects the frequency they will beat content. The faster and smarter i play, the more runs i can do in a day.

You say using your head has no bearing on the outcome of a fight? Are you kidding me? You even say fighting things your own level could be challenging. Which is it?

If you're basing your thoughts about Wakfu on the information you learn from 5th Bond only, heaven help us.

You ask:
"How can people not twist the question to fit their agenda when the question itself is extremely subjective. He asks if intelligence matters. Matters for what?"

Topic point of reference:
"does Intelligence of the player actually matter if they invest more time into the game?"

I answer:
"Simply put, Wakfu doesn't reward Tactics.. it rewards power."

**Can a lv9 beat a lv120?
**Is it easier to clear a lv20 dungeon at lv60?

We're looking at common sense answers to a simple question.

The only reason you're having a hard time answering it, is because you're trying to make the question out to be more than it really is.

No offense intended.. but Wakfu doesn't take any brains to enjoy and doesn't reward tactics.

If it did, then "loot" would revolve around a score system in how well you did against bosses/mobs, Promoting::

1. People to play content their own level, or justifying a "scaling down" mechanic to get better results (leaving only their gear to be "over content level").

2. Classes/builds that require more "intelligence" would actually be sought after.. instead of people just wanting "brain dead" classes that anyone can play, while also dishing out tons of dmg.

3. Easier crafting, due to less required farming (tactics = better rewards, just base recipes off of that).

PvP would follow suit and have an auto-balance system that made sure players fought on an even playing ground, maybe even ignoring gear (lest someone ganks you while you're farming ore and have on +gathering profession gear, rather than pvp gear ~ or ~ just giving you time to switch pre-fight start).


tldr
The more time you invest in Wakfu, the less your intelligence actually matters.
**Just like almost every other MMO out on the market today. (Common Sense)

Why? ~ Because just like most MMO's out today, Wakfu relies on the skinnerbox rather than good game design built to challenge the player mentally.



This post has been edited by ShadowFacts - May 16, 2013, 23:07:32.
Reason for edit : wall of text
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté May 16, 2013, 23:32:09 | #47
@ShadowFacts

You haven't addressed my points or questions, you've simply repeated your previous statements.

Please stop bringing up lvl1 vs lvl100 players, or beating lower level dungeons. It's irrelevant. If you want to spend 8 hours a day playing brainless content 50 levels lower than you just to PK level 1 beginners... I'm at a loss. In this instance, yes, time is all that matters.

Wakfu does reward tactics, unless you're telling me you do not need a battle plan and any group of six people in the best gear meeting for the first time can walk into Magmog and win.

You know what Shadow, I'll admit it, I'm intellectually stunted and can't tie my shoes without mommies help. Since I can't figure out how to beat Magmog, please enlighten me. Should be easy for you to tell me because as you say, Wakfu requires no brains.

I'm not going to argue how MMO's are designed to keep you playing. They are what they are. We're debating if a group of below average players can complete everything Wakfu has to offer given enough time.

How many people in this thread have above average gear and are currently beating Magmog? Because if you are not, Shadow seems to think (i'll put this nicely) you're lacking some common sense.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2013-03-30
posté May 16, 2013, 23:41:54 | #48

Quote (Gynrei @ 16 May 2013 23:32) *
@ShadowFacts

You haven't addressed my points or questions, you've simply repeated your previous statements.

Please stop bringing up lvl1 vs lvl100 players, or beating lower level dungeons. It's irrelevant. If you want to spend 8 hours a day playing brainless content 50 levels lower than you just to PK level 1 beginners... I'm at a loss. In this instance, yes, time is all that matters.

Wakfu does reward tactics, unless you're telling me you do not need a battle plan and any group of six people in the best gear meeting for the first time can walk into Magmog and win.

You know what Shadow, I'll admit it, I'm intellectually stunted and can't tie my shoes without mommies help. Since I can't figure out how to beat Magmog, please enlighten me. Should be easy for you to tell me because as you say, Wakfu requires no brains.

I'm not going to argue how MMO's are designed to keep you playing. They are what they are. We're debating if a group of below average players can complete everything Wakfu has to offer given enough time.

How many people in this thread have above average gear and are currently beating Magmog? Because if you are not, Shadow seems to think (i'll put this nicely) you're lacking some common sense.

You're purposefully missing the point and using VERY specific examples as justifications to over complicate the question being asked.

Why? o.O

Honestly, nvm.. how bout ya just create your own topic.. baring your own stipulations about intelligence? **Since this topic/question is pretty straight forward and asked in a general sense.

***For your topic, consider this:
If you cannot beat Magmog tactically, what's the next best option?

Would you::
A. Hone your skills and try again next week.
B. Rethink your build, read/watch some guides online.
C. Mindlessly grind levels on lower level content, farm kama to buy better gear and simply crush him through sheer force of power like you do everything else in the game.
D. Realize magmog is just one encounter in the game, with each level cap increase, his drops will matter less and less anyways (not like you could find a group to kill him with in the first place).


Anywho, I've said my piece and I really don't like repeating myself. So if you still don't understand, then perhaps re-read a few times or something?

lol, regardless best of luck in game  


This post has been edited by ShadowFacts - May 17, 2013, 00:57:07.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté May 17, 2013, 00:24:01 | #49
Again, not addressing my points. Makes for a fascinating debate.


Not so Hairy Moon * Member Since 2012-01-13
posté May 17, 2013, 02:45:32 | #50

Quote
Grinding time in an Typical MMO > Skill/Knowledge.

Quote
"does Intelligence of the player actually matter if they invest more time into the game?"

There is a point where grinding will no longer help you, and being actually good is required to progress further. So yes, smarts matter.


Quote
I answer:
"Simply put, Wakfu doesn't reward Tactics.. it rewards power."

It rewards both.


Quote
**YES, things can get easier if you're using your head.. but that's not required and has no affect on the outcome of fights

You can't possibly be serious. "has no effect on the outcome of fights".

If it has no effect, how come some people can beat Magmog and other equally geared people can't? How come only certain guilds can do Black Crow, a fight that really doesn't require that much power? How come the group of 6 people I fought at whispering island in pvp with my own group of 6 completely demolished them without even losing a single person, despite being in about equal gear and level?

Please.


Quote
Underpowered classes require brains to do even remotely as well as a Cra, Iop, Sac, Air Osa, ect... YET, no one wants to group with them.. wouldn't that by definition alone mean that player intelligence doesn't actually matter?

If a class is underpowered, it will need some advantage over a stronger one to compete, be it gear, level or player skill.
If no one wants to party a summoner osa in PvE, it's a problem with that particular class or with the people you hang out with, not with the game as a whole.



Quote
After the Sadi nerf, when was the last time you seen someone in 5th Ave begging to have a summon Osa or Sadi (or any other underpowered/intelligence required class) join their team to take down a typical dungeon?... let alone a UB.

I literally take anyone who wants to come to dungeon runs or UBs, provided they can help in the least. Summoner Osa, Sadida? Sure, why not.

In fact, there's only one person I know I no longer invite to parties, and he's clad in full Magmog, along with being one of the best classes in the game atm. I don't invite him because he's a terrible player, and is worthless to the team. If power was all that mattered, this wouldn't be the case.


Quote
If you cannot beat Magmog tactically, what's the next best option?

You can beat Magmog tactically. You can't invest time to get power and beat him with that.
If you're not beating him, the proper course of action is to rethink your game plan and use your brain to come up with a better strategy.
 


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2013-03-30
posté May 17, 2013, 03:44:36 | #51

Quote (Icekin @ 17 May 2013 02:45) *

Quote

Quote










Derp,

I'm just gonna cherry pick your comments... cause context means nothing.


Good job

MY TURN!
1. Not to any relevant effect.
2. But will they blend?
3. So it DOES affect drops? OMG!?
4. Ohhhhhhh! so I need gear to overcome that problem?
5. Like a soup kitchen I guess.. but the majory of people don't care.
6. 4 Mobs outta 300 agree!.. we're all worth something to someone!.. until the next update  


This post has been edited by ShadowFacts - May 17, 2013, 04:11:49.
Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2008-10-25
posté May 17, 2013, 04:36:32 | #52

Quote (ShadowFacts @ 16 May 2013 21:14) *

Quote (Thejordand @ 16 May 2013 20:44) *

Quote (ShadowFacts @ 16 May 2013 19:36) *
blargle
Thought you were on a roll till I noticed where you said summon osa is underpowered, when its the probably the strongest by a long shot. I can skip some turns in most fights and still win without the enemy bringing me out of blue hp.

Now how it performs in PvE is a question I have considering I do not leave 5th other than to try out new summons.

lol, Context is your friend
(I wasn't talking about PvP in that sentence you're referencing)


**Even then, a Cra, Iop, Sac or Panda can pretty much destroy a Summon Osa at Max level.
(not gonna get into this specific debate, as it's very much based off of personal experience and pulls the topic off course).

Anywho, the Summon Osa is considered underpowered in PvE or at the very least.. EXTREMELY ANNOYING to group with.

Why?

Because your summons are just more wasted turns and "can" get in the way of others.. thus slowing down battles to a crawl compared to simply bringing another DPS class.

Hell, I've seen people rage at Eni's that summon their little rabbit.

*In a few cases, those people actually kill it on their turn and tell the "noob healer" to either learn how to play or pick a different class.

Meanwhile... I was like.. uh, so you're not gonna kill my summons right? XD

lol, at the end of the day.. wakfu promotes people to play fast and nothing gets in the way of that worse than retarded walking walls that can also hurt YOU. (try the blimprat... seriously wtf dumb mob)
I see, and I love blimp rat even though it can be dumb at times D:

But I think that we have established that both skill and time investment are both important. The time invested more so considering the fact that this is an RPG. While skill does matter alot as well as classes being used.



Spoiler: (highlight to show)
SUMMARY Knife vs Gun) -Gun has advantage but dumb user -Knife is clearly at the Disadvantage but has an average/expert user~Guy with gun isn't smart enough to take safety off in order to properly use the gun, the gun is reduced to being equal or less efficient than the knife in that particular persons hands.*Want an on topic example? The same thing applies in the game. (A good Cra in moowolf vs a shitty Cra in Magmog)-Similar builds but the one Moowolf geared Cra manages to solo larger and stronger mobs better, why?-- Because the less intelligent Cra stands in one place spamming its main combo while sneaking or disengaging to shoot---While the better Cra takes advantage of beacons to kite as well as disengage, sneak, and certain spells among the air tree.-While the smarter Cra may be giving up some damage on some turns to avoid taking any, and/or to increase the gap between the player and its enemy. But if the player invests more time and works to get Magmog like the other player, he gains an even larger advantage by becoming well equipped and being better.

Long story short all of it matters, this is an RPG play Krosmaster or Dofus Arena if you want to play a similar game where you are equal to everyone.


This post has been edited by Thejordand - May 17, 2013, 04:38:54.
Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2013-03-30
posté May 17, 2013, 04:58:45 | #53

Quote (Thejordand @ 17 May 2013 04:36) *

Quote (ShadowFacts @ 16 May 2013 21:14) *

Quote (Thejordand @ 16 May 2013 20:44) *

Quote (ShadowFacts @ 16 May 2013 19:36) *
blargle
Thought you were on a roll till I noticed where you said summon osa is underpowered, when its the probably the strongest by a long shot. I can skip some turns in most fights and still win without the enemy bringing me out of blue hp.

Now how it performs in PvE is a question I have considering I do not leave 5th other than to try out new summons.

lol, Context is your friend
(I wasn't talking about PvP in that sentence you're referencing)


**Even then, a Cra, Iop, Sac or Panda can pretty much destroy a Summon Osa at Max level.
(not gonna get into this specific debate, as it's very much based off of personal experience and pulls the topic off course).

Anywho, the Summon Osa is considered underpowered in PvE or at the very least.. EXTREMELY ANNOYING to group with.

Why?

Because your summons are just more wasted turns and "can" get in the way of others.. thus slowing down battles to a crawl compared to simply bringing another DPS class.

Hell, I've seen people rage at Eni's that summon their little rabbit.

*In a few cases, those people actually kill it on their turn and tell the "noob healer" to either learn how to play or pick a different class.

Meanwhile... I was like.. uh, so you're not gonna kill my summons right? XD

lol, at the end of the day.. wakfu promotes people to play fast and nothing gets in the way of that worse than retarded walking walls that can also hurt YOU. (try the blimprat... seriously wtf dumb mob)
I see, and I love blimp rat even though it can be dumb at times D:

But I think that we have established that both skill and time investment are both important. The time invested more so considering the fact that this is an RPG. While skill does matter alot as well as classes being used.



Spoiler: (highlight to show)
SUMMARY Knife vs Gun) -Gun has advantage but dumb user -Knife is clearly at the Disadvantage but has an average/expert user~Guy with gun isn't smart enough to take safety off in order to properly use the gun, the gun is reduced to being equal or less efficient than the knife in that particular persons hands.*Want an on topic example? The same thing applies in the game. (A good Cra in moowolf vs a shitty Cra in Magmog)-Similar builds but the one Moowolf geared Cra manages to solo larger and stronger mobs better, why?-- Because the less intelligent Cra stands in one place spamming its main combo while sneaking or disengaging to shoot---While the better Cra takes advantage of beacons to kite as well as disengage, sneak, and certain spells among the air tree.-While the smarter Cra may be giving up some damage on some turns to avoid taking any, and/or to increase the gap between the player and its enemy. But if the player invests more time and works to get Magmog like the other player, he gains an even larger advantage by becoming well equipped and being better.

Long story short all of it matters, this is an RPG play Krosmaster or Dofus Arena if you want to play a similar game where you are equal to everyone.

Ya, Blimprats are pretty much your "go to" mobs from lv74-99. Just gotta make sure you stay as far away from them and enemy mobs as possible tho... *can't count the times those rats crit me with toxic breath for 400+ dmg each XD

As for the Krosmater/dofus thing... I prefer MOBAs (League) for balanced/equal footing PvP.

Though I did enjoy Krosmaster for a bit, after you break the 1500's the only teams you'll be going up against are "1 Nox + 2 Klors". And then each mach just comes down to who gets lucky with crits.

It's funny, right before my sub ended and I uninstalled wakfu. I spent over 80,000 kama, buying up loads of Krosboxes to complete my collection... only to still come up 1 figure short! XD

ah well..


Not so Hairy Moon * Member Since 2012-01-13
posté May 17, 2013, 05:03:59 | #54

Quote
I'm just gonna cherry pick your comments...
I didn't respond to the rest as it was either repeating, or wasn't worth addressing. Just like your "will they blend" line.


Quote
cause context means nothing.
Sarcasm does not help your credibility. And I never said or implied that.


Quote
1. Not to any relevant effect.
It is the difference between winning and losing for UBs, Chillberg, Shudoku...almost all endgame. I would say that's relevant.


Quote
3. So it DOES affect drops? OMG!?
I said nothing about drops. Though if you want to push it, yes, it does. Winning instead of losing does affect drops: You get some instead of none.


Quote
4. Ohhhhhhh! so I need gear to overcome that problem?
If your "problem" is not getting invited to groups, you're either an inapropriate class for the party, an unlikeable person, a terrible player, or you hang out with the wrong people, or have too few contacts. None of this will be solved by gear.

People have run mog in starry.


Quote
5. Like a soup kitchen I guess.. but the majory of people don't care.
It's not charity if you're helping and contributing.


Quote
6. 4 Mobs outta 300 agree!.. we're all worth something to someone!.. until the next update
I don't even know what this means.


I am wasting my time here.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2013-03-30
posté May 17, 2013, 05:09:05 | #55

Quote
I am wasting my time here.

Yes... yes you are

**The topic has pretty much played out, BUT you can expect another one just like this to pop up in the next week or so. Especially with the Dragonpig newsletters being sent out.

The new topic will prolly be labeled something like:
"Played back in beta and I'm thinking about re-subing, is this game still a mindless grind?"
or
"How is combat in this game?.. is it worth subscribing to?"

**Pretty common topic tbh.


This post has been edited by ShadowFacts - May 17, 2013, 05:13:38.
Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-01-05
posté May 17, 2013, 06:50:03 | #56

Quote (Icekin @ 17 May 2013 02:45) *


Quote
**YES, things can get easier if you're using your head.. but that's not required and has no affect on the outcome of fights

You can't possibly be serious. "has no effect on the outcome of fights".

If it has no effect, how come some people can beat Magmog and other equally geared people can't? How come only certain guilds can do Black Crow, a fight that really doesn't require that much power? How come the group of 6 people I fought at whispering island in pvp with my own group of 6 completely demolished them without even losing a single person, despite being in about equal gear and level?



It is pretty obvious at this point that he is either troling or in total denial.

There is always a better and a worse choice and they always make a difference, no matter how small it may be. To flat out deny this factor exists shows that he is not really interested in hearing anyone else opinion so one should probably just ignore it.

Such people are not really interested in having an actual discussion with the exchange of arguments, it is more of labeling something and then sticking their fingers in their ears singing "Lalala, can't hear you..."


This post has been edited by Shaleigh1 - May 17, 2013, 06:52:36.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté May 17, 2013, 06:57:09 | #57
I think in the end, time investment always win. Yes you need some knowledge of how to play your character, but after you get that down it doesn't require much thinking beyond that.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-01-05
posté May 17, 2013, 07:06:20 | #58
Well, suggestion then: Everyone who is arguing personal skill/intelligence/whatever playing no big role in Wakfu in this thread please posts a video of them facerolling Magmog as long as they have a lvl100 char.

I feel seriously stupid now if that is so easy for all you folks here, since I have been tinkering on a strategy for that beast for weeks. Running different scenarios in my head, trying to chose proper group comnbinations, finding an overall strategy etc.

You guys all don't need to do that at all? You went into Magmog's lair with 6 random guys and bashed his face in? I am impressed and I would like to see.

Same goes for black cro. Took me weeks of testing, of failed attemps, of different group combinations. I learned how the cro works bit by bit and nowadays most of his routines sure feel like they aren't all that hard, but it took me quite some time and effort to ge to this point. Time and effort in terms of racking my brains.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2005-10-18
posté May 17, 2013, 10:35:43 | #59

Quote (Gynrei @ 16 May 2013 18:11) *
Billo, your comparison of a person new to the game of chess and one who's played 1000 games is incorrect. Both of these chess players will be facing each other on equal footing. Just because it took one person 1000 games to reach their skill/intelligence with chess... does not mean it will take another person that same amount of time. There are plenty of games I've played for the first time and beat someone who has much more experience.

It's not very useful to call it an 'incorrect comparison.'
I would instead look at it as a 'flawed analogy.'
No analogy is perfect - they are all flawed to some extent, that is the risk one takes in making an analogy - and in this case it is clear that skill can quite amazingly overpower time invested in a scenario such as chess, while in wakfu time invested has a very quantifiable effect on your power. However this analogy was more meant to point out the main line of my post, which was suggesting that it is impossible (or perhaps simply unnecessary) to separate skill and time invested, since the one directly affects the other.

"Just because it took one person 1000 games to reach their skill/intelligence with chess... does not mean it will take another person that same amount of time."

This is basically the point that I was trying to make with the analogy.

I do find it quite unlikely that anyone who has just learnt the basic rules of chess could beat a player who has played over 1000 games and read up on the theory, perhaps even watched grand masters play or something (although this is an extension not included in the original analogy, so you can ignore this last part if you like). That other player has such a wealth of knowledge that it would be almost impossible for a new player to intuit.

Many of these games you have supposedly won first time probably either relied on twitch skills as much as planning, or simply were a lot less complex than chess. But in the end, my entire point was that the genius will take far fewer than 1000 games to reach the same 'level' as the other player.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2010-12-04
posté May 17, 2013, 18:37:42 | #60

Quote (Shaleigh1 @ 17 May 2013 06:50) *
Such people are not really interested in having an actual discussion with the exchange of arguments, it is more of labeling something and then sticking their fingers in their ears singing "Lalala, can't hear you..."

I couldn't help but laugh at how true that is^.

I think it's perfectly possible someone new to a game or sport can beat a veteran. I've seen it many times. Some people are simply more gifted than others. A person playing Wakfu for 3 years could certainly be beat by someone who just started playing and hit level cap in a month.

@Billo: I'm confused, you find it unlikely a person new to a game can beat a veteran yet you claim a genius can learn the game much faster. How do you determine that genius can't surpass the vet first try? How many tries might it take? You don't know because it all depends on the skill level of the vet and how well the new player picks it up. I'll say it again. Experience does not guarantee someone has more skill or knowledge. You might place the odds in the vets favor, but it's not a certainty.