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Brains vs time investment
Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2010-11-13
posté February 10, 2014, 15:36:42 | #81

Quote (HateSpawn @ 10 February 2014 15:07) *
Yeah, the buff would be the difference.

vs magmog which you dont need lock for, just four bodies.
Yes...
Its quite amusing how you literally only need a tank for a few Bosses mostly...
Well ofc some tanking can be useful at some other Places too, but why bring an Full Tank Sac into battle if you literally can just go with something that do more dmg D:


Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2009-12-06
posté February 10, 2014, 18:16:10 | #82
I think this game takes a bit of both Intelligence as well as work. Same with all games and almost everything in life. You need some intelligence and also some work.

In this game you need some intelligence on the class you play the build you want, and the gear set you need. You need intelligence to know how to deal with Bosses especially UB's. You need intelligence in PVP knowing the class type your facing.Anticipating their moves knowing their play style etc

But also this game takes some work. Grinding on monsters to lvl, farming for mats and working on your professions. Mining for ore to make some money.

However certain things come into play, in that it differs from person to person. Patience, the ability to do repetitive tasks without quiting or going nuts.

Example. You could be a genius invent many awesome things solve many puzzles fix a ton of stuff etc..
However you could have ADHD. You could hate grinding and doing repetitive tasks.

On the other hand you can have average intelligence, not know to much about the world. Just knowing the basics reading writing numbers basic math. But being a hard worker, patient and following through what you want done.

This is why i think time investment, and basic hard work wins a bit more. Why you ask??
Because the intelligence aspect of it can easily be solved several ways.

1. Checking the forums, there you can find builds, tips and many answers you were looking for.

2. Google, what would this planet do without google. It is everyones best friend. You don't know something?? Just Google it. This will lead you to more forums as well as fansites and other places that can help.

3. Players, while ingame you can go up to another player, usually a high lvl player and ask a question. Usually you get an answer and since your asking a high lvl player with experience. That experience is what will help you build and better your character and play style etc.

4. Trial and error and learning from mistakes. Usually when a new game comes out and players are new to it. They tend to make mistakes on their first character and as they play they learn more about the game. Experience counts for alot. By simply just playing the game steadily you will gain knowledge about it.

5. These days almost all games are the same. The classes in games are the same and game mechanics are just about the same. Classes (DPS,healer,Tank) The holy trinity of classes. Boss hunts raids. You just need to jump in fight and get a feel for the boss, even if you lose you try again and learn from it. Grinding is a huge part of almost all games. If you player 1-2 games, then start a new game. It will not be so dam hard to adapt and get the hang of things. So a massive amount of intelligence is not needed.


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2010-11-13
posté February 10, 2014, 18:40:22 | #83

Quote (krisnuick @ 10 February 2014 18:16) *
I think this game takes a bit of both Intelligence as well as work. Same with all games and almost everything in life. You need some intelligence and also some work.
Well i would not totally agree with this, and the other things you pointed out...
You can´t compare Wakfu to everything in Life.
If you want to compare Wakfu to a Job for example, this won´t work.
Even though being a good and maybe hard worker is something that will be important for a promotion, you will still need to fulfill the requirement of the Job.

In Wakfu you can just start Playing, and even if you are totally clueless for ever you can reach max level and get Decent Gear after some Time. Ofc it will take longer and/or the help of other People (like always in this Game) but you will be able to reach the End-Game Content even by just Derping around for a long amount of Time. And even after the 100´st Fail attempt for a Dungeon or whatever you might get the Point and know how to do it, since the Challenge of Wakfu bosses and UB´s is not that high as ppl might think... the Strategies agains UB´s are in fact totally simple and just rely on a few key classes and good Gear+ the Levels.

And even if you are max lvl and have pretty decent End-Game Gear there is (if we are honest) not so much what you can do to make a difference between yourself and a maybe less skilled player who have the Same Gear as you.

You won´t be able to deal more Dmg just because you are maybe better, and you also can´t attack faster then him since you both have 30 Seconds for every Turn. Maybe Team PvP fights could become more complex, but in general its not that hard to know what you are up against, since mostly everyone uses just 2-3 differenct spells in average and after 2-3 Rounds in Battle there won´t be much of a difference beside some stacked up Dmg Boost or whatever. Its pretty monotone at all.

In Wakfu you can (pretending you are not Multiaccounting) just group up with 5 other ppl, join a dungeon, start a fight and will look like this.

- Fight Start
- Positioning
- Waiting 1-2 Minutes for your Turn
- Move and use 2-3 maybe 4 spells
- Waiting 1-2 Minutes (maybe more)

And Repeat until the Fight is over

If you want you can just tab over to your Browser, or whatever you want to do... since wakfu doesn´t need much of your attention to do anything. Except you are Multi-accounter and control all Turn by yourself...

So in Wakfu its really all about the Time you invest mostly... The Difference between maybe More Skilled or not is mostly not even visible, since there is not really much in this game which could indicate this...


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2012-01-24
posté February 10, 2014, 18:49:42 | #84

Quote (aquabeauty @ 14 May 2013 21:20) *
This game does not require 'intelligence'

They say its a strategy game but the strategy component is extremely minimal....

You need TIME to invest in this game. LOTS and LOTS of time, for all you do is grind.. grind for gear, grind for levels, grindddd grindddd grindddd .... =/

In pvp, yes you need a little bit of brains but it all comes down to your class and the ever so growing gap between 'support' toons and dpt toons.

You still can't win against the douche bag whose's class is more op by retarded design + has invested more time into grinding/buying gear. =/
A support class is not supposed to win against a pvp class. You don't need to insult ankamas way of designing character classes just because you play support classes and can't pvp at all. You chose to level support classes, so stop whining.

The game requires high levels of intelligence especially when you're fighting some UB's or Dungeon Bosses, there are a lot of 'tricks' to defeat them.

If you farm enough kamas, you can buy anything in the game, any set, any relic, any pet...

Buying/selling items for a profit requires intelligence and followthrough abilities, hardest part, finding a buyer/seller. Negotiating skills in life relate directly to negotiating skills in Wakfu.


Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-05-15
posté February 10, 2014, 22:19:41 | #85

Quote (xCATZILAx @ 10 February 2014 18:49) *

Quote (aquabeauty @ 14 May 2013 21:20) *
This game does not require 'intelligence'

They say its a strategy game but the strategy component is extremely minimal....

You need TIME to invest in this game. LOTS and LOTS of time, for all you do is grind.. grind for gear, grind for levels, grindddd grindddd grindddd .... =/

In pvp, yes you need a little bit of brains but it all comes down to your class and the ever so growing gap between 'support' toons and dpt toons.

You still can't win against the douche bag whose's class is more op by retarded design + has invested more time into grinding/buying gear. =/
A support class is not supposed to win against a pvp class. You don't need to insult ankamas way of designing character classes just because you play support classes and can't pvp at all. You chose to level support classes, so stop whining.

The game requires high levels of intelligence especially when you're fighting some UB's or Dungeon Bosses, there are a lot of 'tricks' to defeat them.

If you farm enough kamas, you can buy anything in the game, any set, any relic, any pet...

Buying/selling items for a profit requires intelligence and followthrough abilities, hardest part, finding a buyer/seller. Negotiating skills in life relate directly to negotiating skills in Wakfu.

I totally agree with Aquabeauty.

@xCATZILAx:
That is one of the most stupid reasoning I've heard behind support and dpt classes. If a support class is not allowed to win a pvp fight, than this game should not be open pvp game (sandbox) in the first place. I have played a few hardcore mmo games, even those games give the opportunity for support classes to win a pvp fight.

If Ankama changes this one day, that would be one of the most retarded choice they would make unless they separate all servers in two: PVE and PVP server. As long as this doesn't happen, support classes do deserve being able to defend themselves. Otherwise too many douchebag's would ruin people's gameplay and/or there wouldn't be any support class left in game. Everybody would play dpt class or quit this game, which would mean no more dungeon runs all together...


Ambitious Crackapult * Member Since 2006-01-31
posté February 10, 2014, 22:27:06 | #86
If Support classes were given actual support functions (guaranteed stun, guaranteed blind, guaranteed bound, etc) they'd be a lot more potent in PvP.

Since Ankama hates giving players "powerful states" (read: crowd control necessary for survival and widely utilised in other MMO's and RPG's in general), Support classes will never be capable in PvP.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2012-01-24
posté February 11, 2014, 01:52:17 | #87

Quote (Karakedi @ 10 February 2014 22:19) *

Quote (xCATZILAx @ 10 February 2014 18:49) *

Quote (aquabeauty @ 14 May 2013 21:20) *
This game does not require 'intelligence'

They say its a strategy game but the strategy component is extremely minimal....

You need TIME to invest in this game. LOTS and LOTS of time, for all you do is grind.. grind for gear, grind for levels, grindddd grindddd grindddd .... =/

In pvp, yes you need a little bit of brains but it all comes down to your class and the ever so growing gap between 'support' toons and dpt toons.

You still can't win against the douche bag whose's class is more op by retarded design + has invested more time into grinding/buying gear. =/
A support class is not supposed to win against a pvp class. You don't need to insult ankamas way of designing character classes just because you play support classes and can't pvp at all. You chose to level support classes, so stop whining.

The game requires high levels of intelligence especially when you're fighting some UB's or Dungeon Bosses, there are a lot of 'tricks' to defeat them.

If you farm enough kamas, you can buy anything in the game, any set, any relic, any pet...

Buying/selling items for a profit requires intelligence and followthrough abilities, hardest part, finding a buyer/seller. Negotiating skills in life relate directly to negotiating skills in Wakfu.

I totally agree with Aquabeauty.

@xCATZILAx:
That is one of the most stupid reasoning I've heard behind support and dpt classes. If a support class is not allowed to win a pvp fight, than this game should not be open pvp game (sandbox) in the first place. I have played a few hardcore mmo games, even those games give the opportunity for support classes to win a pvp fight.

If Ankama changes this one day, that would be one of the most retarded choice they would make unless they separate all servers in two: PVE and PVP server. As long as this doesn't happen, support classes do deserve being able to defend themselves. Otherwise too many douchebag's would ruin people's gameplay and/or there wouldn't be any support class left in game. Everybody would play dpt class or quit this game, which would mean no more dungeon runs all together...
Support classes are essential to beating UB's and killing Boss Dungeons. They have a paper to play in the world of Wakfu just like PVP classes do. This is not a cookie cutter game where you just pick a class and do everything every other class does, this is a game of intelligence and teamwork. I still think your opinion and Aquabeauty's opinion is not only selfish but short-sided.

It's like playing a game of chess except every piece moves exactly the same. NO. Each class has a special role, just because one is better than another in pvp doesn't make it better or worse it makes it DIFFERENT.


This post has been edited by xCATZILAx - February 11, 2014, 05:54:11.
Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2010-11-13
posté February 11, 2014, 13:10:12 | #88
Its funny saying something like "UB require a high amount of intelligence"...
Or maybe our imagination of "intelligence" is just far off from each other!

Knowing one strat and which classes you might need doesn´t look like a real Intelligence
heavy task for me... If you use the right Tactic (which are not that complicated or hard to pull off)
only the Gear and Level of the Toons come into relation.

Some ppl obviously think you need high amounts of Brain cells to know what happens in Wakfu Fights, but in truth its just pretty simple and mostly the same.
Even the praised UB´s are not that special...
To give an example :

Excarnus : Just Focus him to get the Kill in 1-3 Rounds (Depending on your Dmg Output)
Milkar : Just Focus him and try to split a bit up, Tank sac can become Handy if you
avoid the pushback and lock him.
Black Crow : Just Stay behind the Stones in Phase 1 and Attack out from Cover. Block his sight with
Summons and puppets to avoid getting hit and prepare with leaving your cover before he
gets under 4000hp. And then comes the important part!!!... no just kidding...
Just Focus him until he die.
Magmog : Use Panda to Surround him and maybe protect Healer... Water Dmg is definately very
helpful! And now... guess what?
Just Focus him until he die
Dragon Pig : Well Ankama made him a lot thougher then the others. Best Tactic is to keep him
busy with 1-2 Tanks (If you have Earth Sadida it could be done by 1 Sac i guess)
Remove his Range with the Cra Passiv and care of the Belligerence.
Beside that... Just Focus him until he die.

Beside those little Tactical guidelines its just the same as cast around 3 Spells and wait 2 Minutes until your on the Row again...
You can easily do every of these UB´s while doing differenct Things on this Computer... and just come back to the Wakfu Tab for your Turn, which will be no Problem since you have 30 Seconds to do your Stuff.

If someone is able to show me that this require much of IQ or Brain investment and co. than plz go for it and prove it.


This post has been edited by Dan1e7 - February 11, 2014, 13:10:51.
Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2010-11-13
posté February 11, 2014, 13:35:25 | #89
I saw what you posted before the edit

Well since you, aquabeauty, are also a Multi-Accounter, would you say that playing with more accounts increases the Amount of "Brain investment"?
I for myself (Played only up to 3 accs so far) found it atleast a bit more challenging... not in terms of gear and stuff but so i didn´t nearly feel asleep while waiting for my turn 2-3 Minutes again and again...
And i hardly feel that once you Multi-accounted (even if it was in Dofus before) you feel like at a disadvantage be doing that...
Thats a reason why i never could imagine to just single-account again...
It just feels like this game is not made for ppl who are playing only 1 toon... even if you have friends and a good Guild its not same...


This post has been edited by [MOD]Meka - February 18, 2014, 17:26:46.
Reason for edit : Removed quote.
Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-02
posté February 11, 2014, 13:44:15 | #90

Quote (Dan1e7 @ 11 February 2014 13:35) *
I saw what you posted before the edit

Well since you, aquabeauty, are also a Multi-Accounter, would you say that playing with more accounts increases the Amount of "Brain investment"?
I for myself (Played only up to 3 accs so far) found it atleast a bit more challenging... not in terms of gear and stuff but so i didn´t nearly feel asleep while waiting for my turn 2-3 Minutes again and again...
And i hardly feel that once you Multi-accounted (even if it was in Dofus before) you feel like at a disadvantage be doing that...
Thats a reason why i never could imagine to just single-account again...
It just feels like this game is not made for ppl who are playing only 1 toon... even if you have friends and a good Guild its not same...
Oh its fine I never removed it. I have plenty of evidence to back up that claim that could reach the proper officials if he continues to harass me If you're not or my server or live close by you wouldn'tknow now retarded that stalker is. I will honestly have to get a restraining order soon because that guy is a total freak. Fortunately I have him blocked but I still see his retarded comments to me when he's quoted. ~__~


---

I am a 6-boxer, in order to increase my brain investment. That's why I always say that 6boxing is a play style and not a form of in game advantage.

I also fall asleep if i dont minimally 3 box. If I do not 6-box I oftentimes get distracted. I am the worst derp-queen when I single box.

Although I understand how you feel about multi boxing and I partially agree. You should know that before you taste the forbidden fruit it is not as bad. I started out with 1 sadida, then I opened up an eni and enu because i wanted the advantage of "drops" after realizing that there is no such thing as a multi-boxer advantage [only a slight one] I found that I had discovered something better. A new and more challenging play style.

But in general the single player mode isn't really challenging unless of course you find that you are orchestrating groups for your friends/guilds.


This post has been edited by [MOD]Meka - February 18, 2014, 17:27:31.
Reason for edit : Removed quote.
Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-05-15
posté February 11, 2014, 13:54:46 | #91

Quote (aquabeauty @ 11 February 2014 13:44) *

But in general the single player mode isn't really challenging unless of course you find that you are orchestrating groups for your friends/guilds.

This.


On a side note, I am on Remington so I don't know xCATZILAx but he indeed doesn't sound very "intelligent" to me either. I mean saying that this game needs a lot of "high levels of intelligence" made me laugh. And saying that we both are short sided because support classes are not suppose to win a pvp fight is the best joke I have heard from him so far, I find that more "short sided" than our explanations but whatever...


Back on topic, I think that this game is more a time investment game than a brain game for sure. Grinding seems the most popular thing to do these days in most mmo's. But Wakfu imo does not bring much content to let your brains overwork. I play this game almost 4 years and the most difficult/challenging part so far for me was figuring out how Xelor's, Ecaflip's and Sadida's work. After that I only needed to figure out how some UB's work but that was less of a work than figuring out how those classes work.
Still, there is no content in this game which requires "a lot of intelligence". I have seen better mmo games with better Brain-work needed than Wakfu trust me...


This post has been edited by [MOD]Meka - February 18, 2014, 17:29:05.
Reason for edit : Removed quote.
Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-02
posté February 11, 2014, 13:57:08 | #92

Quote (Karakedi @ 11 February 2014 13:54) *

Quote (aquabeauty @ 11 February 2014 13:44) *

But in general the single player mode isn't really challenging unless of course you find that you are orchestrating groups for your friends/guilds.

This.


On a side note, I am on Remington so I don't know xCATZILAx but he indeed doesn't sound very "intelligent" to me either. I mean saying that this game needs a lot of "high levels of intelligence" made me laugh. And saying that we both are short sided because support classes are not suppose to win a pvp fight is the best joke I have heard from him so far, I find that more "short sided" than our explanations but whatever...
Some one who does not know what the word "Intelligent" means and also holds no level of intelligence will often times be caught using the word in an improper manner. It's no shock to me.

You are lucky that he is not on your server.


This post has been edited by [MOD]Meka - February 18, 2014, 17:29:43.
Reason for edit : Removed quote.
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2012-01-24
posté February 11, 2014, 14:05:09 | #93
Whilst I thank you for the unecessary insults and loving attention I'd like to go back to the point.

In a chess game every piece serves a purpose. What you guys want is to give every piece the ability to move like a Queen which would not only be disastrous but boring.


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2010-11-13
posté February 11, 2014, 14:06:44 | #94

Quote (aquabeauty @ 11 February 2014 13:44) *
I am a 6-boxer, in order to increase my brain investment. That's why I always say that 6boxing is a play style and not a form of in game advantage.

I also fall asleep if i dont minimally 3 box. If I do not 6-box I oftentimes get distracted. I am the worst derp-queen when I single box.

Although I understand how you feel about multi boxing and I partially agree. You should know that before you taste the forbidden fruit it is not as bad. I started out with 1 sadida, then I opened up an eni and enu because i wanted the advantage of "drops" after realizing that there is no such thing as a multi-boxer advantage [only a slight one] I found that I had discovered something better. A new and more challenging play style.

But in general the single player mode isn't really challenging unless of course you find that you are orchestrating groups for your friends/guilds.

As i started to play the Game, i was on amara and i played with only 1 account as Summoner Osa.
So just to clear it out for everyone who read this there are 3 critical thinks into the Phrase above :

-Amara
-SUMMONER Osa
-1 Account

Mix this 3 things together und you will maybe know what suffering and pain means :X
Then the Multiman came out, and i had the luck to be able buying all of them with my remaining Ogrines from Dofus in the Past. And shortly after i started playing with them i began a second account and some later a third to get an Eni for more Raw Healing Power (Since Lumino is good, but if you want to do some high level Dungeons solo you need more heal, so i ran with Lumino and a eni)
I guess Without the Release of Multiman i would have maybe quit before...

My Chars on Amara mostly don´t exist anymore, i logged in sometimes, but didn´t played seriously for up to nearly a week now. Checked out Dathura and APAC a bit...
Actually i kinda enjoy doing other stuff and playing a bit on other Games which don´t force me to play for x Hours straight just to come 0.1% closer to my Goal...


Quote
Whilst I thank you for the unecessary insults and loving attention I'd like to go back to the point.

In a chess game every piece serves a purpose. What you guys want is to give every piece the ability to move like a Queen which would not only be disastrous but boring.

Well there is still a difference for moving a artificial piece which is a Pawn, or being a Pawn for real!


This post has been edited by Dan1e7 - February 11, 2014, 14:08:35.
Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-05-15
posté February 11, 2014, 14:14:10 | #95

Quote (xCATZILAx @ 11 February 2014 14:05) *
Whilst I thank you for the unecessary insults and loving attention I'd like to go back to the point.

In a chess game every piece serves a purpose. What you guys want is to give every piece the ability to move like a Queen which would not only be disastrous but boring.

First of all a chess game is not a mmo game.

Second of all, Wakfu is a mmo game and yes every class serves it's purpose but you forget that a real person sits behind the screen. Also a support class is supposed to be able to win a pvp fight with all his support skills. Obviously these classes have no stun, anger etc etc but other "support" mechanics to be able to defend themselves.

Third of all if only dpt classes were to win a pvp fight, everybody would choose a dpt class so there wouldn't be any support classes left or just too few of them to do a dungeon run.

And last but not least, have you ever fought against say a pandawa, water xelor, (water) eni etc etc, all support classes you can think of? Well they are well capable of winning pvp fights, otherwise Ankama would be forced to divide all servers in PVP and PVE servers.


Quote (Dan1e7 @ 11 February 2014 14:06) *



Quote
Whilst I thank you for the unecessary insults and loving attention I'd like to go back to the point.

In a chess game every piece serves a purpose. What you guys want is to give every piece the ability to move like a Queen which would not only be disastrous but boring.

Well there is still a difference for moving a artificial piece which is a Pawn, or being a Pawn for real!

This!!


This post has been edited by Karakedi - February 11, 2014, 14:17:06.
Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2012-01-24
posté February 11, 2014, 14:32:43 | #96
But that's my point, you have the option to choose between a support character and a pvp character!

No one is forcing you to be the pawn xD


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-09-05
posté February 11, 2014, 14:56:40 | #97
to be fair and slightly off topic: Pawns are the most powerful pieces on the chess board if you truly know how to play chess well.
Ask any chess master and they will say the pawn is the key piece to win the actual game a pawn is everything once you get it to the opponent side of the board and if I was to choose to be a pawn I would go for it.

It is almost like in Wakfu, people claim that a X role will never win against a Y role in pvp or won't be able to do a Z dungeon but in truth, there is always a way to get the X role to be intensely imba against Y role and Z role, you just need to find it's hidden potential (Think out the box and stop following other peoples one minded guides)

Like a pawns hidden potential in becoming any piece of the game and winning the entire game completely.


Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2011-11-11
posté February 11, 2014, 15:11:27 | #98

Quote (Raath7 @ 11 February 2014 14:56) *
to be fair and slightly off topic: Pawns are the most powerful pieces on the chess board if you truly know how to play chess well.
Ask any chess master and they will say the pawn is the key piece to win the actual game a pawn is everything once you get it to the opponent side of the board and if I was to choose to be a pawn I would go for it.

It is almost like in Wakfu, people claim that a X role will never win against a Y role in pvp or won't be able to do a Z dungeon but in truth, there is always a way to get the X role to be intensely imba against Y role and Z role, you just need to find it's hidden potential (Think out the box and stop following other peoples one minded guides)

Like a pawns hidden potential in becoming any piece of the game and winning the entire game completely.
-Hats off for you, sir-

Well said


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2012-01-24
posté February 11, 2014, 15:23:08 | #99

Quote (Raath7 @ 11 February 2014 14:56) *
to be fair and slightly off topic: Pawns are the most powerful pieces on the chess board if you truly know how to play chess well.
Ask any chess master and they will say the pawn is the key piece to win the actual game a pawn is everything once you get it to the opponent side of the board and if I was to choose to be a pawn I would go for it.

It is almost like in Wakfu, people claim that a X role will never win against a Y role in pvp or won't be able to do a Z dungeon but in truth, there is always a way to get the X role to be intensely imba against Y role and Z role, you just need to find it's hidden potential (Think out the box and stop following other peoples one minded guides)

Like a pawns hidden potential in becoming any piece of the game and winning the entire game completely.
Thank you for making my point more articulate. Every piece in the chess board (every character class) has a purpose and a role. You can complain about the short-comings of a character but you need to understand they have a role and they were designed for a purpose. Not everything in the game is Damage Per Turn, there's more to it.


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2010-11-13
posté February 11, 2014, 15:27:01 | #100
This is getting pretty much off-topic now...
This thread discuss how much Intelligence and maybe Skill is involved in playing Wakfu
and not a whine thread about unbalance in PvP or that some classes can´t do as much Damage as others etc.