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[New] Combat challenge system for Dec Update
Community Helper * Member Since 2005-08-28
posté November 19, 2013, 22:21:14 | #1
[New] Combat challenge system for Dec Update Here is an extract from the topic by Troyle December Update (WIP) full topic click here.
  • [New] Combat challenge system: In combat, a challenge will be offered to the players (two in dungeons). If they succeed, an XP and Prospecting bonus will be given for the fight. A couple examples: Don’t be backstabbed, End all your turns in contact with an enemy.


I want to inform and discuss the challenge system. I would like everyone's help with suggestions/criticisms/anything really how to make the challenge system awesome. I think one of the main problems with the Dofus system was the challenges was not very interesting or fun. I think the challenge requirements were to complex to really be applied to every single fight especially at high level content when you can't be messing around.
After speaking with some other Dofus veterans perhaps my overal experience of the challenge system was negative but that wasn't the case for everyone.
Now for the walls of text.


This system would be new to Wakfu but is is very old on Dofus.
When this system was implemented into the Dofus 50% of normal experience was removed from the game. One challenge for normal pvm and two challenges whilst inside a dungeon. The more difficult/complex the challenge the higher the % reward in general.

The challenge system bonuses varied from a 1% up to 200% exp & drops. I believe that the challenge bonus was a final multiplier so if you had 100% wisdom and and would normally get 20,000 exp and won a 200% challenge you would get 60,000 exp and the same with drops. However on average in terms of exp alone realistically Dofus players lost out massively, as we was not given +50% xp every single fight to make up for the loss.

The full list can be found here (from the Dofus wiki).

Here are some of the challenges I use to hate and its hard to put into words the kind of logic used and the constant frustration caused I played as healing eni on Dofus like I do on Wakfu. In the end I ignored the challenge system complete and unless the challenge was super easy.

Clean hands: Kill all monsters without dealing direct damage for the duration of the combat. Traps, glyphs, poisons, pushback damage, reflected damage as well as attacks by summons may all be used. On Dofus only feca, sram and osa could do this one my team on Dofus it was 100% impossible.
Duel: When a character attacks an enemy, no other character must attack the enemy for the duration of the combat. So basically you have to solo the monsters adding a considerable amount of time to the fight. Also feeling like playing as part of a team kinda dumb in general.
Neither Piwi nor submissive: Female players must let male players deliver the mortal blow to enemies for the duration of the combat
Neither Piwin nor submissive: Male players must let female players deliver the mortal blow to enemies for the duration of the combat. As Ankama can not see the actual gender of your teams this one can be very problematic for example what happens if the team is 5 female and 1 male (me as the eni), I then need need to get the finishing blow on every single monster oh yeah and heal people. I admit Wakfu eni's can do somewhat decent damage but still no healing on those turns.
Unpredictable: All attacks must be made exclusively on the target selected by a character at each new turn. What happens if that order started with the boss? and the dungeon is very difficult and leaving the normal monsters is not a real option?.
Two for the price of one: When a character kills an adversary, this character must kill one (and only one) more enemy during the enemy's turn. Often not possible at higher content or takes a ton of time to set up (imagine leaving two black wabbits in critical health).
Scanty: Each player must not use the same action more than once, for the duration of the fight. Way to nerf all the tactical aspects of the game in practice imagine you can only cast all your attacking spells once, so you have 5 hits per person to kill everything on the map and if you do not have feca/rogue GG. Btw my eni has 3 attacks at awful damage on Dofus so I hated this one big time.

Challenges I liked:
Self Sacrifice: Characters must not be healed during their turn. Basically means do not heal yourself, LOL I can manage that one.
Contract Killer Your enemies must be killed in the designated order. A new target will be selected each time the preceeding target has been killed. This one could sometime be awesome and be identical to the order I was going to kill the monster anyway so a win win.
Dodgy devs: Finish this fight and you've won the challenge! It is well known that all devs are cheatersThis is since been removed from that game but you got exp/pp just for finishing the fight win win.
Elementary, my dear! Use the same element to attack for the duration of the combat.Many players are mono element so easy win win.
Unwilling Volunteer Kill Monster first. I use to love this one, on Dofus you could have 8 players in a team so 8 attacking 1 monster sometimes was pure ownage.

So lets hear your challenges be creative and win a cookie.
P.S. please note no cookies are currently available.


This post has been edited by JerryDB - November 19, 2013, 23:58:57.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-05-01
posté November 19, 2013, 22:26:53 | #2
As an Osamodas, I always loved Scanty the very best! Even with maxed summons and buffs it was always a nice challenge to see if I could manage it.

Clean hands was a blast, too! So easy, just spam 15 monsters.


Oh god though, the other ones you hate- they were horrific, I agree.



I'm going to be very sad when I see no summon/no mechanics challenges pop up....


Or Barbaric. *shivers*


Not so Hairy Moon * Member Since 2006-01-31
posté November 19, 2013, 22:31:13 | #3
"Don't use Wakfu Points"

I quite liked the Versatile challenge. Don't perform the same action twice in one turn. But I feel like it will screw Karchamrak a lot, everything else is fine.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2010-12-17
posté November 19, 2013, 22:38:05 | #4
Jerry you forgot one of the most annoying/usefull challenge (depends on the situation)

BLITZKRIEG: the enemy must be killed before his next turn.

BTW the worst challenge is Contamination.


This post has been edited by Matt5150 - November 19, 2013, 22:39:54.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2012-02-11
posté November 19, 2013, 22:47:39 | #5
I think that if its individual challenges and that you dont loose anything by not doing them its fine to have these challenges. i need to see more about the system before they add it... they could not though.


Community Helper * Member Since 2005-08-28
posté November 19, 2013, 22:49:37 | #6
As all the challenges are situational depending on so many factors in theory you could put all of them into good and bad at the same time. But as I said the majority of the time is was pure frustration.

I use to like BLITZKRIEG that just means gang one monster NOW.

Contamination I am not 100% sure but I think I could cheat this one and revive the dead as an osa.
Also I use to play mostly with my friend and I personally I thought this challenge was very funny and usually to counter this challenge, we would play in the most suicidal/risk way possible. On Dofus the dead still got full exp and drops so wasn't too bad depending on who died really.


The Sinister Six * Member Since 2012-01-13
posté November 19, 2013, 23:05:30 | #7
If the challenge difficulty nets a higher boon in experience compared to the more tamer ones, I wouldn't mind at all!


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-04-03
posté November 19, 2013, 23:07:27 | #8
I'm really concerned about this upcoming addition. If they will leave drops and xp untouched and simply give us a chance to multiply it, surely, yay, everyone's happy. More fun, more difficulty but more rewards.
But if they do the same what they did to Dofus and cut the global experience by half, I'll just.. Well, I'm in constant doubts for like three months already, so guess it would be the final blow and I'll quit, I'm fed up with nerfs ._.


Mister Winter Fashion Victim 2012 * Member Since 2012-12-16
posté November 19, 2013, 23:13:10 | #9

Quote (Seguchi-sama @ 19 November 2013 23:07) *
I'm really concerned about this upcoming addition. If they will leave drops and xp untouched and simply give us a chance to multiply it, surely, yay, everyone's happy. More fun, more difficulty but more rewards.
But if they do the same what they did to Dofus and cut the global experience by half, I'll just.. Well, I'm in constant doubts for like three months already, so guess it would be the final blow and I'll quit, I'm fed up with nerfs ._.

Yeah there's a little bit of concern there, and prayer that they don't do that.

What myself and a colleague believe is that the wisdom and PP cap is the limiting factor here. A means to limit how much you can gain from challenges.

e.g. wisdom cap is 200 and PP cap is 500.

Let's say you have 110 wisdom and 300 PP, and you complete challenges that add up to +100% XP and drops. The guess is that'll double your wisdom and PP. However with the cap in mind, your buffed up 220 wisdom and 600 PP become 200 wisdom and 500 PP when XP and drops are calculated for.

This is the best case scenario as far as the cap system goes, where players are unaffected except when they do challenges, which it acts as a restraint on how high you can go. If you don't like challenges, we can hope that this update will not affect you at all.

• Mango


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-05-01
posté November 19, 2013, 23:18:02 | #10
Yeah, they had better not touch the global XP or Drops, unless it's to buff it. That's my one real worry, here.


On the plus side, they did learn their lesson a while back in Dofus, and made sure that "impossible" challenges didn't appear, especially in boss fights. (bear in mind this means impossible based on the battle itself, not necessarily on whether or not your team is capable of doing it)

Just imagine a "Kill the Boss first" on Slyargh, or Scanty. Or Elementary, My Dear, on Mamog. I hope they place the same scrutiny on the challenges in Wakfu.


Community Helper * Member Since 2005-08-28
posté November 20, 2013, 00:11:35 | #11
Challenge ideas (which might well be modified Dofus ones).
I have left these as core ideas they can be easily changed, like double team into triple team or less/more restrictions such as the number of turns, the amount of time, the number of player etc.
I have also tried to come with challenges that every class & build could do.
I have avoided time limits on fights even though I know that can make the enviroment quests fun doing a fight with only 2 minutes to go and a certain monster/first last and boss first/last and sometimes that is near impossible.

Team challenge ideas:-
  • Team of Assassins-every member of the team must backstab at least one enemy before the end of the fight.
  • Deadly Assassins- score two backstabs on the same enemy before it dies.
  • Weapons are deadly-one member of a group must get the a killing blow on an enemy with a weapon, summons do not count.
  • We have a coward-have at least one member of your team more than 3 tiles/squares away from all enemies for the entire fight btw that will usually be my eni .
  • We have Chuck- have at least one member of your team within 5 tiles of an enemy for the entire fight excluding the boss.
  • Team member frustration-one member of the team must be hit by friendly fire, it can be single target so doesn't have to be an area of effect spell.
  • Relay race-during the fight the whole team must use all their mp on a single turn, e.g cra uses 5 mp, iop uses 6 mp and the osa uses 4 mp etc.
  • Double team-hit the same target with two characters during the same turn.
  • Get away!- one team member uses a pushback/transport spell.
  • No running away- one team member locks an enemy once.
  • Single target-no area of effect spells cast by the time team during the whole fight.
  • AoE!- one member of the team must use an area of effect spell hitting at least two enemies.
  • Think fast! - on the first turn everyone must take less than 15 seconds.
  • Revenge- the first player hit by X enemy must then get the killing blow.
  • No pain no gain- one member survives taking damage for 2 turns without being healed.
  • Wakfu burners- by the end of the fight use all Wakfu points.
  • Just in case- Everyone to have 1 Wakfu point or more at the end of the fight.
Harder team challenge ideas:-
  • Crit city- every member of the team must score one critical hit.
  • Lucky 7- score at least 7 critical hits during the fight.
  • One of us is Dodgy- score at least one dodge roll during the fight.
  • Up close and personal- every member of the team must score one hit on the enemy in close combat.
  • Team of tankers- at least two members of the team must block one hit.
  • Careful does it- no one goes on a penalty tile during the entire fight.
  • Let me get a hit- everyone must damage the boss once excluding reflect and summons dealing damage for you.
  • Bosses Revenge- the first player to be hit by the boss must get the finishing blow on the boss.
  • No fair-at least two players to get hit by an enemies area of effect attack (might not be possible on many fights).
  • Bring it on- for at least 50% of the team to finish the fight with 80% maximum hit points or higher.
  • Who's the tank!- every member of the team must be hit at least once by the enemies.
  • Who's AFK? - at least one member of the time must skip a turn/miss without moving or casting spells
  • Avatar- the team to use all four elements during the fight.
  • Like a boss- one player must tank a bosses hits for at least 3 turns in a row.
Individual challenge ideas possibly solo fights:-
  • Survivor- survive an enemies backstab attack.
  • Great survivor- survive a single attack from a boss.
  • No fear-stand in front facing a target for two turns.
  • Help-get hit by two enemies on the same turn.
  • Spammer-use only 1 spell for 2 turns.
  • Master Assassin- score one critical hit backstab.
  • Ice Statue-for one turn do not use any mp and doesn't have to be the first turn (does not count if you get MP robbed).
  • Elemental master- cast 3 elements during one turn.
  • True Master of time- take less than 15 seconds on every turn for the entire fight.
 


This post has been edited by JerryDB - November 25, 2013, 14:16:42.
Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-07
posté November 20, 2013, 01:06:15 | #12
What about ones that change the way you play completely, like perhaps you are transformed into and enemy when you kill it, or the blibiza beat boy mechanics apply during the fight.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté November 20, 2013, 01:57:10 | #13

Quote (JerryDB @ 19 November 2013 22:21) *
Clean hands: Kill all monsters without dealing direct damage for the duration of the combat. Traps, glyphs, poisons, pushback damage, reflected damage as well as attacks by summons may all be used. On Dofus only feca, sram and osa could do this one my team on Dofus it was 100% impossible.
Duel: When a character attacks an enemy, no other character must attack the enemy for the duration of the combat. So basically you have to solo the monsters adding a considerable amount of time to the fight. Also feeling like playing as part of a team kinda dumb in general.
Neither Piwi nor submissive: Female players must let male players deliver the mortal blow to enemies for the duration of the combat
Neither Piwin nor submissive: Male players must let female players deliver the mortal blow to enemies for the duration of the combat. As Ankama can not see the actual gender of your teams this one can be very problematic for example what happens if the team is 5 female and 1 male (me as the eni), I then need need to get the finishing blow on every single monster oh yeah and heal people. I admit Wakfu eni's can do somewhat decent damage but still no healing on those turns.
Unpredictable: All attacks must be made exclusively on the target selected by a character at each new turn. What happens if that order started with the boss? and the dungeon is very difficult and leaving the normal monsters is not a real option?.
Two for the price of one: When a character kills an adversary, this character must kill one (and only one) more enemy during the enemy's turn. Often not possible at higher content or takes a ton of time to set up (imagine leaving two black wabbits in critical health).
Scanty: Each player must not use the same action more than once, for the duration of the fight. Way to nerf all the tactical aspects of the game in practice imagine you can only cast all your attacking spells once, so you have 5 hits per person to kill everything on the map and if you do not have feca/rogue GG. Btw my eni has 3 attacks at awful damage on Dofus so I hated this one big time.

Challenges I liked:
Self Sacrifice: Characters must not be healed during their turn. Basically means do not heal yourself, LOL I can manage that one.
Contract Killer Your enemies must be killed in the designated order. A new target will be selected each time the preceeding target has been killed. This one could sometime be awesome and be identical to the order I was going to kill the monster anyway so a win win.
Dodgy devs: Finish this fight and you've won the challenge! It is well known that all devs are cheatersThis is since been removed from that game but you got exp/pp just for finishing the fight win win.
Elementary, my dear! Use the same element to attack for the duration of the combat.Many players are mono element so easy win win.
Unwilling Volunteer Kill Monster first. I use to love this one, on Dofus you could have 8 players in a team so 8 attacking 1 monster sometimes was pure ownage.

So lets hear your challenges be creative and win a cookie.
P.S. please note no cookies are currently available.
I want to say that i enjoyed the challanges in Dofus. I was playing Sram and i have to say my favourite one was Clean Hands. I didn't know other classes couldn't do that as i played only Sram back then. Still i was happy as i was usually playing with just traps set up for fun and when i was rewarded for it - me gusta!

Here in Wakfu i would love this challange too, as Sadida i would happily use my summons to complete this challange.

As Sadida i also don't mind if the fight is longer as long as its rewarding (unlike some players that just spam spells with high dmg% to kill as much in as fast way possible - wich for me is not fun at all).

I love the challanges, especially that now some players might actually experience the difficulty of some monsters special abilities (such as kralamore).

I remember that there used to be challange to kill monsters in right order - i liked that one too and i would love it on Wakfu as well.

If there would be challange that would require me to not use WP at all - i would rage about it because i keep using WP every turn as Sadida summoner. Unless they make dolls not cost WP to summon, then i will be fine with "not using WP" challange.

Unpredictable - i would like this challange in wakfu, as Sadida player at least i would shine in this situation. Who else can summon multiple creatures that would lock monsters in place and allow team to focus on 1 enemey - also with the help of voodoll? I would feel wanted in case this challange would appear! So +1 to this to happen.

I am just unsure about the challanges where male or female need to deal final blow to each monster. I don't mind this to trigger if we have mixed gender team, or if at least 1 member has other gender then the rest, but what if all of the members are male or all of the members are female? Then we won't be able to finish this challange no matter what! If this challange would trigger ONLY if there was at least 1 male and 1 female member, then i would enjoy this challange.

As daredevil i accept any challanges.


Afterall these are the little things that makes the game more interesting.

There could be also challange:
Hatching eggs - no team member can move from place for the whole fight (it would be challanging one to keep own place, and might be too diificult in case enemy can push/pull)
Team Madness - Every turn at least 1 member must be hit by friendly fire
The floor is lava! - do not end turn in the same cell (always start turn in different cell then in previous turn)
Good as new - finish fight with 100% HP
Guardians - at least 1 member cannot be hurt during whole fight
Daredevil - do not take damage in front
The chosen one - use only 1 out of 5 active specialities you have (can be repeatadly used)
Natural selection - after marked by system monster is killed, the new one will be marked to kill
Group hug - always start turn next to ally
Tasting Blood - do not attack the same enemy before you attack every other enemy
Born to tank - at least once during fight start turn with 4 enemies in contact
Elemental mix - do not use the same element as in previous turn (except weapons)
Pure element - use only 1 type of element for the whole fight (except weapons)
Not just for the look - use weapon at least once during fight
Trickster - make enemy not attack anyone at least once (make enemy waste turn by not attacking anyone)
Locking pro - lock 2 turns in a row
Taking turns - each ally must have Blocked LoS to at least 1 enemy at start of one of their turns
Scarecrow - allow enemy to dodge from your lock zone
Big Bullies - surround at least 1 enemy (4 allies must be in one of the enemy lock zone in same time - including summons)
I'll pass - pass your turn without doing anything (once during fight)
Ladies first - no male character can attack before all of females in team would have their turn
Let man handle this - no female character can attack before all of males in team would have their turn
Zombies - no one in team can use more then 2 MP to move each turn
Turtle fight - no one in team can use more then 1MP to move each turn
Bad breath - run away from enemy lock zone at least 3 cell away
Leftovers - end every turn with 1AP left (do not use the last 1 AP)
Release energy - finish fight with 0WP (every team member)
Curiosity killed the Bow Meow - at least 1 member must step on "effect tile" (once in fight)
Dumb and dumber - each member must step at least once on "effect tile" (once in fight)
One for all - at least one member must attack each of the remaining team members (once)
All for one - one member must be attacked by other team members (only one member need to be attacked by allies)
Brain control - each of team members must attack other team members at least once (these challanges to hit allies does not include summons)
This one is mine! - Allow one of the monsters to receive damage only from 1 team member (except summons)
Dirty job - each member must backstab enemy at least once

EDIT:

Oh and if possible ankama could make some NPC (gemlin?) appear out of a sudden after players accept their positioning and the challange would require the team to protect that NPC from being KO'ed.


Scary Polter * Member Since 2007-11-27
posté November 20, 2013, 09:46:37 | #14
Actually scanty is a good one, according to wiki it gave not the final *2 pp multiplier, but it was like +200 pp to every group member. And it is not 5 spells per player, sure your main element will deal most of the damage, aoe helps a lot, osa summons are not affected, secondary element spells also dealt nice chunk of damage. Scanty on dp souls was always a morale boost for me.

Anyway, if the challenges are implemented on top of current pp exp situation (no nerfs), that would be pure awesomeness. Do not like challenges? ignore them, you will not lose anything. Too hard? Same. Want a challenge to the game? Challenges may be hard and strategic, I did some of them nigh-impossible for that particular fight just to prove that 'I can' ©Obama. And that gave nice flavour to the game.

I would actually like to see the list of them. I also doubt that it would be direct copy-paste from dofus 'cause of the differences, some are impossible in wakfu, some are way more difficult.


posté November 20, 2013, 09:59:19 | #15
You know, Jerry, after all this reading of your topic I kinda can't just not say same as Kiku - challenge accepted. Bring it on!


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-02
posté November 20, 2013, 10:06:14 | #16

Quote (Hudski @ 19 November 2013 22:31) *
"Don't use Wakfu Points"

I quite liked the Versatile challenge. Don't perform the same action twice in one turn. But I feel like it will screw Karchamrak a lot, everything else is fine.
SILENCE. from nuns

--------

I really like this idea. I think bringing in challenges will definitely raise the stakes and make runs much more fun as long as it is optional and drop rates are not decreased.


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2006-09-11
posté November 20, 2013, 10:42:54 | #17
As an old Dofus player, my only real concern is if our current experience will get cut by 50% like what happened in Dofus, putting that aside though, I always enjoyed challenges in Dofus, there wen rent many that I really dreaded, but when they did pop up ('to each his pwn' e-e) I just chose to ignore them. As long as challenges don't become a requirement just to make up for the lost experience like in Dofus, I'm happy to see any of the difficult ones make a return.

Anyway, there's my opinion, now I'm gonna list some challenges that could work well in Wakfu:

Wakfu: simple, really, just use one Wakfu point per turn (at least 'till they're all used up), a variant could be using all your points before the end of a fight, regardless of how many you use a turn. As this challenge is pretty easy, it could give a 60% bonus, as it shares similarities with Dofus's 'Mystique'

Stasis: the opposite of Wakfu, to win this you would have to refrain from using any wakfu points during the fight, as this would obviously be difficult for most players, it could give a 100% bonus, or maybe even 150% bonus.

Push Yourself : this could be one of the more difficult challenges, you would have to target the monsters with the most resistance to your best element, as this is scanty tier, it would give a 200% bonus to exp.

Too Easy: opposite of Push Yourself, target monsters with lowest res, working your way upwards. As this is what most people do anyway, it could give a 50% bonus.

I have a few more ideas, but they're more obscure, so I'll leave them out. Also, I know my challenge names suck  


Community Helper * Member Since 2005-08-28
posté November 25, 2013, 13:49:47 | #18

Quote (FinroyThePuppeteer @ 20 November 2013 09:59) *
You know, Jerry, after all this reading of your topic I kinda can't just not say same as Kiku - challenge accepted. Bring it on!
If I understood you correctly you are going to add your own challenges, come on lets hear them .

Kiku thanks for all the suggestion but try not to copy me and change the names.

Here is Wakfu December Update: Challenge Archive (a current list my mango). I will let you be the judges of how many are simply old Dofus challenges copy & pasted. I have also expressed my crisitsim for the challenges have put forward as tactically shallow.


This post has been edited by JerryDB - November 25, 2013, 14:46:06.
Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2009-04-12
posté November 25, 2013, 14:28:53 | #19
Gotta say there were only 2 challs i disliked on dofus, Nomad and Barbaric,i used to love others and as all i used to do was spam out hte frig bosses, i found neat tricks to get around stuff like blitzkrieg as i could 1 turn most monsters/bosses, the gender challs were really nice for my fogger aswell as if my turrets killed it did nothing to the challenge which was nice ^^

I should probably point out there will probably be a few loopholes with these challenges aswell, gotta feeling there will be..


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-04-28
posté November 26, 2013, 00:38:52 | #20

Quote (JerryDB @ 25 November 2013 13:49) *
Kiku thanks for all the suggestion but try not to copy me and change the names.

By the time i started making the list of suggestions, your suggestions were not the same as mine. you have added some, while i was writing and by the time i finished and posted them you already had more challanges in your previous post. Wich is why some of them look similar with just different name. My goal was not to copy-paste anything. I was making them out of my mind. Its even pointless to suggest something that has been suggested before. So sorry if there are some similar ones.