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Sidekicks/Multimen (Spell/Stat page + Player Class Comparisons)
Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2011-12-30
posté December 17, 2013, 11:58:38 | #21
Alright on to the next one.

This time I'm going to talk about Krobax. Our little owl friend that controls the wind. Like Skale, he is a special case with some unique crowd controls skills to support your team. Krobax shall be compared mainly against an Air Sacrier (reasons you'll see below).

Also, updated the chart on Krobax as there were a couple things to add.



We're going to start with an Active Specialty as it defines most of Krobax's spells.

Krobax's Souitch vs. ---
Cost: ---
Range: 0
Area: Point
Conditions: 4 uses a turn

Souitch (if you're having trouble saying that, say "Switch" as that's what the spell is doing) is a unique specialty only to Krobax. Thus nothing to compare it to. It has no cost or damage. It also gains nothing as it levels. All it has is a "4 uses a turn" limit on it.

What this does is either places or removes the "Souitch" state from Krobax. The "Souitch" state alone does nothing. Instead it changes how Krobax's spells push, pull, or teleports.

The "Souitch" state lasts 1 turn. Therefore you always start your turn without it.


Krobax's Cyclone vs. Sacrier's Assault & Light Speed
Cost: 3 AP vs. 3 AP & 5 AP 1 MP 1 WP
Range: 1-4 non-modifiable vs. 1 to 1-4 with no LoS, modifiable by Lvl 121 & 3 Line, no LoS, modifiable
Area: Point vs. Point & Circle 2
Conditions: Assault requires you not being carried. Light Speed requires 25+ Angrr, not to be carries and limits to 1 use a turn. Also not mentioned, but the destination spaces 6 spaces away in a line must be open.
Lvl. 200 Dmg: -59 HP vs. -61 HP (or -80 HP if target is stabilized) & -140 HP
Cyclone non-Souitch Effects: Switches place with the target and turns the target toward Krobax. Not listed in the effects, but Cyclone does not seem to hurt a targeted Ally.
Cyclone Souitch Effects: 2 WP is added to the cost. Krobax teleports to target location. Target location must be an empty space.
Assault Effects: Switches place with the target and turns the target toward the Sacrier.
Light Speed Effects: Teleports toward destination space, 6 spaces away in a line.

Woo, that's a lot more text than normal for the comparisons in just the stat department. So many effects. I decided to compare Cyclone to two different Sacrier abilities because of the vastly different effect on the "Souitch" states.

First, a non-Souitch'd Cyclone vs. Assault. Costs are the same and once the Sacrier levels up, they have the same base range of 1-4. Damage is also very similar and the effects are close to identical. Where of course the Sacrier comes ahead is that starting at spell Lvl 121, Assault gains no LoS. It's range is also modifiable, unlike Cyclone. At low levels, Cyclone wins as it has it's full range right away, while Assault only has 1, but as the Sacrier increases the level of Assault, in becomes vastly better. The only benefit that Cyclone has is the unlisted effect of not damaging your Ally if you so chose to switch with them, unlike Assault, which hurts regardless of it being an Enemy or Ally. Sacrier wins this half of the spell, but it is decently close for a while and a very useful support for Krobax.

Second, a Souitch'd Cyclone vs. Light Speed. These are quite different. A Souitch'd Cyclone becomes Krobax's only WP costing spell and it costs a handful (2 WP added to it's 3 AP cost). This limits it to 3 uses a fight, but at least you don't need to save the WP for anything else. On the other side of cost, Light Speed costs a bit of everything. You need sufficient AP, MP and WP to use it, along with many special conditions before being allowed to cast it. A Souitch'd Cyclone is a teleport spell, and nothing more. It deals no damage and can be used for an escape or positioning. Light Speed, when conditions are met, deals a massive amount of damage to a large AoE of a Circle 2 and teleports the user a great distance of 6 spaces. While mainly used for damage, it can also be use for escapes or positioning. Also, like Assault, it has no LoS required for use, while a Cyclone needs LoS, Souitch'd or not. The Sacrier wins this again, but again, this is an immensely useful spell for Krobax. It combines two fun and greatly used spells of the Sacrier into one.


Krobax's Zephyrus vs. Sacrier's Rejectatoo & Sacrier's Fist
Cost: 2 AP vs. 3 AP & 2 AP 1 MP
Range: 1-7 modifiable, 1-2 Line, non-modifiable & 1-2 Line to 1-5 Line non-modifiable by Lvl. 85
Area: Point
Conditions: Sacrier's Fist is limited to 2 casts a target
Lvl. 200 Dmg: -42 HP vs. -73 HP (or -92 HP if the target is stabilized) & -72 HP
Zephyrus non-Souitch Effects: Attracts by 1 cell toward Krobax
Zephyrus Souitch Effects: Pushes back 1 cell away from Krobax
Rejectatoo Effects: Pushes back 1 cell away from the Sacrier
Sacrier's Fist Effects: Sacrier gets moves to the cell adjacent to the target (get's closer by 1-4 cells)

Yay, more text than normal still..... A-hem....

I'm going to start with the Souitch one this time.

First, a Souitch'd Zephyrus vs. Rejectatoo. Damage against a non stabilized target is -21 HP per AP vs. -24.33 HP per AP. Relatively close because the range on Rejectatoo is so restrictive. If you're lucky enough to have a stabilized target, the Sacrier gets a boost to -30.67 HP per AP, which is really nice. However, again on the range, the Rejectatoo is stuck at a 1-2 Line cast range, while Zephyrus has an amazing range of 1-7 and is not restricted to a Line. For damaging, the Sacrier does better, but for using that push to it's full potential, Krobax has that in spades. To top it off, Zephyrus has modifiable range, while Rejectatoo's range cannot be changed. I'm actually going to say Krobax wins this one for shear versatility.

Second, a non-Souitch'd Zephyrus vs. Reverse "Get Over Here"... cough... I mean, Sacrier's Fist. These spells are quite a bit different, but it was hard choosing something similar and this "kind of" fit. Both spells cause a target to move in the same direction. One just happens to be something other than the caster, while the other is the caster him/herself. The damage is the same as listed above in the Zephyrus vs. Rejectatoo comparison, so we'll leave it at that (other than that Sacrier's Fist does not get a bonus against Stabilized targets), they are relatively the same. Both also each benefit the caster. Krobax is not an in your face character, so he pushes the target away. To make it nice, with that range, he generally doesn't need to move to keep pushing and can keep doing it as long as he has AP. Very useful support. Keeping the enemy away causes them to waste MP just to get back. Sacriers on the other hand like to be in your face generally (yay for Angrr), so the reverse of Scorpion's "Get Over Here" is quite useful for sticking to your target. It is however limited to 2 uses a turn and requires it to hit Lvl. 85 to get it's full range. It is also non boostable. I actually after looking at all that, give the win to Krobax again. Still love that spell on Sacriers (one of my favorites of theirs).


Krobax's Sirocco vs. Sadida's Gust
Cost: 4 AP vs. 3 AP
Range: 1-4 Line, non-modifiable vs. 0-4, no LoS, non-modifiable
Area: Cross 1
Conditions: Gust is limited to 2 casts a turn
Lvl. 200 Dmg: -68 HP vs. -46 HP
Sirocco non-Souitch Effects: Pushes all targets back 2 cells away from Krobax. Cannot affect Krobax.
Sirocco Souitch Effects: Attracts all targets by 2 cells toward Krobax. Cannot affect Krobax.
Gust Effects: Pushes outward from the center 1 cell. Center cell is not pushed. Applies +39 Lvl's of "Intoxicated." Gust does not damage or apply "Intoxicated" to allies.
Intoxicated State: At max Lvl 100, -30 HP Air at start of turn, lasts 1 turn. -11 HP Air at the start of turn from 39 Lvl's of Intoxicated.

Sirocco is quite unique in that it literally is "crowd control." Sirocco can push or pull up to 4 targets at a time. To top it off, it has no conditions and it's push/pull is 4 cells. The only limitations on the spell is the line cast and that you cannot modify the range. A very nice spell.

Gust is more of a combination of crowd control and escape. Because it can push in any direction, it allows for great control along with not requiring LoS. It's a great escape spell as well for not only Allies, but yourself as well (something Krobax cannot do). Casting it on yourself pushes everything away, or you can just cast it to the side to push yourself or an ally in a desired direction. The limit is the only draw back on this spell, but it in no ways any less useful. The "Intoxicated" state increases the spells damage by an additional -11 HP, but it is delayed till the start of the targets next turn. Thus, the damage is similar to Sirocco.

With all those points, it's really hard to say which is better than the other. I'm actually saying a tie in this case. Both are incredibly useful.


Krobax's Burst of Wind vs. Iop's Gutting Gust
Cost: 1 MP
Range: 1-5 modifiable vs. 1 non-modifiable
Area: Point
Conditions: Burst of Wind is limited to 2 uses a turn
Lvl. 200 Dmg: -35 HP vs. -39 HP

Both cost the same and have the same area. Because of the limit on Burst of Wind, even though it has nice, modifiable range, it actually doesn't lose out that much on the damage. Both spells help the specific class as well, as Iop's are up close anyway, so the short range doesn't matter, and Krobax is (or should be) away from the target, so the range helps him. I'd have to say this is a tie. Very nice for a Sidekick for a MP only costing spell, with how we have no control over how they get stats and all.


Krobax's Turblo vs. ---
Cost: 3 AP
Range: 2-4 non-modifiable
Area: Cross 1
Conditions: Limited to 1 use a turn
Grants +1 MP 100% by Lvl. 100 and starting at Lvl. 101 to 200 a second chance to grant +1 MP 50-100% to Allies.

Not really something to compare this one to. It doesn't deal damage and instead is an AoE buff that grants allies +1-2 MP (depending on the level). It has non-modifiable range and cannot be used on Krobax himself. It is an "alright" support spell, but I feel you're better off using everything else normally that Krobax has to offer. Turblo finds itself in a very situational spot and I can only see it getting it's full benefit if you can group up your party for an AoE boost. Even though it is relatively unique and doesn't have something to compare it to, because of how situational the spell is, I don't really feel like saying that Krobax wins... It has its uses still.


Krobax's Crobak Blood vs. Shadow's Darkness Blood vs. Astrub Knight's Protector of Astrub

Crobak Blood: +50% Air Damage, +30% Air Damage per Ally
Darkness Blood: +50% Damage, +30% Damage per Ally
Protector of Astrub: +200% Damage, +60% Damage when the enemy is below Lvl 60

Like on Shadow's Darkness Blood's discussion in the previous post, I don't feel like going over this really again, but we shall quickly I suppose...

Astrub Knight Wins! There, it's been said. See Astrub Knight for a more detailed reason why he beats out both paid for Sidekicks.

On Krobax vs. Shadow, their Blood Passive's do exactly the same thing. Shadow's technically does a bit more as it helps any element, and he can switch up which element he's using. Krobax may be limited to Air, but that's all he can use... Shadow is also a damage dealer, with other boosts to damage and this to add on top. Krobax on the other hand is all about pushing/pulling/teleporting crowd control, yet this Blood Passive tries to make him a damage dealer, which he isn't exactly. Not that he can't be used as one, but that's not the reason you'd really purchase him. Shadow get's second place as his Blood Passive supports his type of build, while Krobax's seems out of place.

Krobax, you're in last for the least thought out Blood Passive. For shame.




That is all of Krobax (can't believe I'm still awake..... should have quit 3 hours ago and gone to sleep.....). He is an excellent crowd control support with many Sac'happy skills. That and he's an Owl. How can you not love that?




Kat shall sleep now.... (2 more Sidekicks to go.)
- Kat


This post has been edited by kurokat101 - December 19, 2013, 09:19:04.
Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-12-03
posté December 18, 2013, 10:57:43 | #22
Time for the Zelda's Deku look alike, Trank.


For Trank is a tank build, we shall compare him to tanks. Tanks happen to generally always be Earth, being the ever known Earth Sacrier and the more recent Earth Foggernaut after its revamp. Our super tank oriented class, the Feca's are getting a revamp, so even if there is a current move that they use that is similar, I shall leave it out as revamps mean change and I'd like to compare it to things that are going to be the same for the next while.



Trank's Sap Jet vs. Enutrof's Deadly Nightspade or Sadida's Bramble
Cost: 5 AP vs. 3 AP 1 MP or 4 AP
Range: 1-5 vs. 1-4 or 2-5
Area: Point
Lvl. 200 Dmg: -79 HP vs. -58 HP or -90 HP
Sap Jet Effects: Removes -1 MP 100% by Lvl. 100 and starting at Lvl. 101 to 200 a second chance to remove -1 MP 50-100%.
Deadly Nightspade Effects: -1 MP (100%) at all levels. Cost, Range, Damage and effects change in Drhellzerker form. Shall not be covered as it requires an active specialty.
Bramble Effects: -1 MP (100%) at all levels on an Enemy. When cast on an Ally, it grants +48 Lvl's of the "Armor-To-Be" State. Bonus effects when used with a Voodoll or Seed, but like with Deadly Nightspade, these require extra active specialties, so shall not be covered.
Armor-To-Be State: All levels of "Armor-To-Be" convert to the "Brambly Armor" State.
Brambly Armor: 1 HP armor/shield (augmented by the Sadida's Earth Mastery) per level of the state. Max level 200.

Oh noes. I'm not comparing our new tank to any of our current tanks I mentioned above. Instead it we first draw from the Enutrof's and Sadida's as they are the main MP removers.

Let's as before convert MP costs to AP for easier comparison. Sap Jet is at -15.8 HP per AP, Deadly Nightspade is at -14.5 HP per AP and Bramble is at -22.5 HP per AP. After that we look at the range. For some reason, Deadly Nightspade not only deals the least per AP, but also has the smallest range. Bramble has the highest damage by a decently high amount. It was given that for not being able to use it at close range. Sap Jet has the range of both and still gets a slightly higher base than Deadly Nightspade.

On to the Effects (again not including effects from effects that require additional specialties), we have a slew of MP removal. Deadly Nightspade and Bramble at all levels have a 100% chance for removing -1 MP. Sap Jet starts at only a 50% chance at Lvl 1 for the -1 MP removal. However, by Lvl 100, it get's the full 100% chance for removal and starting at Lvl 101 up to 200, it gains a second chance to remove -1 MP at a 50-100% chance. The Enutrof's gets less range, damage and has the least effects (ignore the Drhellzerker part). The Sadida's deal the most damage and can grant armor to allies. Trank deals close to the Enutrof's damage, but a bit more and beyond Lvl 101 has two separate chances to remove MP.

With all of that, I'd actually say the Sadida's is the best of the three. From being able to remove MP and grant armor. Trank is close behind however at being able to remove -2 MP at higher levels. Enutrof's in last without it's Drhellzerker.


Trank's Roots vs. Sacrier's Rocky Foot or Crackrock Blow
Cost: 1 AP 1 MP vs. 3 AP or 4 AP
Range: 1
Area: Point
Conditions: Roots is limited to 2 uses a target
Lvl. 200 Dmg: -54 HP vs. -62 HP or -83 HP
Roots Effects: Trank gains +29 Lock
Rocky Foot Effects: Removes -50 Dodge from the Target, +1 Lvl of "Coagulation" to the Sacrier
Crackrock Blow Effects: Removes -75 Dodge from the Target, +2 Lvl's of "Coagulation" to the Sacrier
Coagulation State: Lvl of "Coagulation" equals the #% of armor (based off of the Sacrier's HP) the Sacrier receives. This armor only absorbs 70% of the damage from each hit taken. So the Sacrier still will take damage.

Sac'Tank comparison time. If you may notice, Trank gains Lock while the Sacrier removes Dodge. In other words, they do relatively the same thing except, Trank's spell, Roots helps him lock down all adjacent enemies, while the Sacrier only locks down the single target. To delve further, let's see how much Lock/Dodge they gain/remove per AP (MP converted to AP like for damage as always). Roots grants Trank +14.5 Lock per AP, while the Sacrier is removes -16.67 Dodge per AP from the Target with Rocky Foot or -18.75 Dodge per AP. Remember, while the numbers are higher on the Sacrier's spells, they are against a single target, while Trank's helps in an AoE. Thus why it deserves a smaller number. As they are used for slightly different reasons then, this is a tie.

On the damage side, we'll do Dmg per AP to make it easier. Roots deals -27 HP per AP, Rocky Foot is at -20.67 HP per AP, and Crackrock Blow hits for -20.75. Wow, Trank wins the damage output by a great margin here. The Sacrier most likely has lower damage because of the "Coagulation" bonus state they give themselves, but without the active that increases that amount, the effect is nill and we are comparing spells, not spells coupled with specialties.

With both the ability to lock in an AoE and being able to deal more damage per point, Trank wins this one. The only downside to Trank's side though I will admit is the limit of 2 uses per target (which has been updated in my chart as I seem to forgot to place that in it).


Trank's Sap Surplus vs. Sram's Bloody Ripoff
Cost: 3 AP
Range: 1
Area: Point
Lvl. 200 Dmg: -40 HP vs. -73 HP
Sap Surplus Effects: Trank heals himself for +52 HP
Bloody Ripoff Effects: When attacking from the back, the Sram heals for 50% of damage inflicted. When attacking from the sides, the heal is from 25% of damage inflicted.

Words cannot describe how nice of a tanking spell this is. I don't know of any spell (I of course could be mistaken) that not only deals damage, but heals the user at the same time. Sap Surplus deals -13.33 HP per AP (not terribly high on it's own) and heals himself for +17.33 HP per AP (decently high, even on its own). This is a wonderful tank spell.

It has been pointed out to me that I somehow missed the Sram's Bloody Ripoff and Ecaflip's Fleahopper. I am ashamed as I play a Water Sram (though not used her in 5 months) and my main spell was Bloody Ripoff... Not sure how I missed that. Anywho.... We shall skip the Fleahopper spell as it works quite a bit different, even though it is a attack with a heal spell. On Bloody Ripoff, you'll of course first notice the greater damage. This is -24.33 HP per AP. A wonderful damaging spell. The heal is going to be however half that on a back attack or only a fourth of that on a side attack. The Sram heals for nothing on an attack on the front. Now, this spell potentially can heal for more than Sap Surplus, but only on back attacks and under the right conditions (your mastery and the enemies resist to water). In exchange for the heal not always working for you, the Sram is given a much greater damaging tool. Which is to be expected as they are assassins. Trank on the other hand will heal for the same amount no matter the enemy resists, as the heal is not reliant on the damage dealt. Trank also does not need to attack a specific side of the target for the full use of the heal. If we were looking for a damaging spell, the Sram wins, but as this is a tank build, we're looking for a tanking spell, so Trank wins.


Trank's Vine Grip vs. Sacrier's Sacrier's Fist
Cost: 3 AP 1 MP vs. 2 AP 1 MP
Range: 1-4 Line vs. 1-2 Line (grows to 1-5 Line by Lvl. 86)
Area: Point
Conditions: Vine Grip is limited to 1 use a turn. Sacrier's Fist is limited to 2 uses per target.
Lvl. 200 Dmg: -76 HP vs. -74 HP
Vine Grip Effects: Attracts the Target by 3 cells towards Trank
Sacrier's Fist Effects: The Sacrier get's 1-4 cells closer to the Target

Yay, Scorpion's original "Get Over Here" vs. the reverse "Get Over Here." Flat out, the reverse one wins. Go Sacrier. This is because obviously by the Limit, Cost, and Range all being better on Sacrier's Fist. Vine Grip has a little bit more damage, but not by much. Sorry Trank.


Trank's Sylvan Symbiosis vs. Foggernaut's Stasis Flux
Cost: 2 AP vs. 6 AP to 2 AP (with possible additional +1 WP)
Range: 1-6 vs. 0-1 to 0-6
Area: Point vs. Circle 2 or Point (depending on target)
Sylvan Symbiosis Effects: Cast on an Ally, redirects 100% of the damage taken to Trank
Stasis Flux Cast on Self Effects: Uses the Circle 2 AoE. Redirects 10-100% of the damage received by Allies in the AoE area around the Foggernaut to the Foggernaut.
Stasis Flux Cast on an Ally: The 1 WP is added to the cost and it uses the Point AoE. Redirects 10-100% of the damage toward the Foggernaut. Stasis Flux cannot be cast on the same Ally 2 turns in a row.

Trank's Sylvan Symbiosis works like Stasis Flux when it's cast on an ally. The have relatively the same range, though the Foggernaut has the added WP cost and cannot use it on the same target multiple turns in a row. Sylvan Symbiosis is also at it's full strength from level 1, while the Foggernaut must level up Stasis Flux in order to get the cost down, higher damage redirected, and increased range.

Of course, on the Foggernaut's side, Stasis Flux can be use on themselves for an AoE redirection of damage at the same cost. This is a huge benefit, allowing the Foggernaut to tank for their entire team (in specific situation's of course). Trank however, unlike the Foggernaut, like all Sidekicks, returns to full HP after a fight, thus can feel free to tank all the hits he wants without much repercussion, while the Foggernaut will need some bread or be healed before the fight is over. I'm actually going to call this a tie. Was leaning hard toward Trank in reality, but the shear usefulness of that AoE tanking ability provided by Stasis Flux pushed the balance back toward a tie.


Trank's Rocky Road vs. ---
Cost: 1 WP
Range: 0
Area: Point
Conditions: Limited to 1 use a turn
Rocky Road grants Trank +200 Lock

Again, another Sidekick spell that doesn't really have anything to compare itself to. This is Trank's only WP costing spell, meaning it those WP's will be plentiful. This is 6 turns per fight of SUPER LOCK. Yes, caps. That is +200 Lock. Wearing lock gear and using this specialty, Trank can reach unrivaled Lock. Trank wins (against who, i'm not sure, but Trank wins again).


Trank's Treechnid Blood vs. Sacrier's Blood Pact vs. Foggernaut's Stasis Shield
Treechnid Blood: +20% HP and an additional +10% HP per Ally
Blood Pact: +20% HP and an additional +8% per Ally, Loses -12% HP per Ally death
Stasis Shield: +20% HP and an additional +8% per Ally, Loses -7% of damage received by Allies
Max bonus HP (5 Allies, team of 6): +70% HP vs. +60% HP vs. +60% HP

Yes, this is a 3 way vs., instead of a or between the Sacrier and Foggernaut.

Now, starting out, Trank is way behind the others as players can max out their specialties at any point while Sidekicks need to level up (another benefit to being a player). Trank however has no downside to his passive. On top of that, once we reach higher levels, his grants even more HP than the others (by +10%).

Sacriers have to deal with making sure their allies are not dying or they -12% of their max HP (after all the bonus'). That's up to 60% of their max HP. The Foggernaut's have another problem to deal with. They receive 7% of the damage received by their Allies throughout the entire fight. This can add up to quite a bit if your Allies don't have much resists. To counter that, a good Tank Fogger using this passive will be in the front lines tanking the hits for the team anyway, attempting to make sure their allies don't take damage. Depending on the situation, I'd say Blood Pact is generally better than Stasis Shield, but both can be useful (Stasis Shield needing a competant Fogger, please don't put this on a Ranged Fogger that's staying out of harms way in the first place though. This doesn't redirect damage, it's an additional 7% damage, because the robot "feels" for it's teammates).

Once we can hit Lvl 180, from that point and beyond, Treechnid Blood wins and wins hard. At Lvl 180, Treechnid Blood grants Trank +18% HP and +9% HP per Ally. With a max party giving a total of 63%, this is a greater amount than Blood Pact and Stasis Shield and still has no downside. After which, as the leveling slowly continues to reach the Lvl 200 cap, Treechnid Blood continues to get better. In the end, Trank will win. For now, Sacrier wins (and on occasion Foggernaut wins).




That is all for our Deku friend. So I'm just going to leave it at that as that was already a lot of text again. Just the little healing fox to go.



- Kat


This post has been edited by kurokat - December 19, 2013, 09:12:35.
Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2011-11-28
posté December 18, 2013, 11:20:24 | #23
Great reviews/analysis! I love the love you give these new fighting friends.

I'm personally loving Trank even more now that I've played him. Never been much of a tanker but that might change with this wonderful wooden puppet!

One little question: how do you manage to make a second post right after a previous one? When I do that, he always joins them into one.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-12-03
posté December 18, 2013, 11:29:25 | #24
Simple.

Notice one is posted by Kurokat.
The second is posted by Kurokat101.

I'm using a second account. I originally didn't mind that my posts were joining with each other when I did looooong threads like this before (I did one on when the Sadida Revamp happened as that is my main class, and I did one, well hijacked another's thread, on the Foggernaut when their revamp happened). However it came to my attention that a post can only have so many characters. So say you post something and you're almost at the word limit. Then you post another long post and it joins with the previous. It will cut off part of your post that exceeds the post's word limit. That didn't go over well for me as I put a lot of time in the second post, only to see the first 3 sentences joined to the original post and the rest lost. Therefore, second accounts help alleviate this problem. That and when I did decide to pay for a second account to use in Wakfu, I already had one made (thus bypassing Ankama's wait that is needed to use paypal, as new accounts cannot seem to use paypal right away).



- Kat


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-02-22
posté December 18, 2013, 12:05:40 | #25
Very nice comparisons, thanks for those. Sap surplus could be compared to srams bloody ripoff or ecas fleahopper, since those are both attack + heal spells. Will be interesting to see how lumino compares to other healers.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-12-03
posté December 18, 2013, 12:22:30 | #26

Quote (exponentialrage @ 18 December 2013 12:05) *
Very nice comparisons, thanks for those. Sap surplus could be compared to srams bloody ripoff or ecas fleahopper, since those are both attack + heal spells. Will be interesting to see how lumino compares to other healers.
Ha, completely forgot about my Sram (not used her in over a 5 months). I should have remembered that one as I use a Water Sram too... I'm ashamed. I shall update that tomorrow and will hopefully have Lumino added sometime within the next day or so too.


- Kat


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2012-02-11
posté December 19, 2013, 05:44:03 | #27

Quote (kurokat101 @ 17 December 2013 11:58) *
Krobax's Cyclone vs. Sacrier's Assault & Light SpeedThe only benefit that Cyclone has is the unlisted effect of not damaging your Ally if you so chose to switch with them, unlike Assault, which hurts regardless of it being an Enemy or Ally. Sacrier wins this half of the spell, but it is decently close for a while and a very useful support for Krobax.

Cyclone can also be used without linear restriction like Transposition.


Quote
Krobax's Sirocco vs. Sadida's GustSirocco is quite unique in that it literally is "crowd control." Sirocco can push or pull up to 4 targets at a time. To top it off, it has no conditions and it's push/pull is 4 cells. The only limitations on the spell is the line cast and that you cannot modify the range. A very nice spell.
Since Sirocco has line of sight restriction, you would only be able to push four targets at a time if the space in the AoE closest to Krobax is occupied by something which does not block line of sight (Rogue afflicted with Smoke, Rogue bombs which can be pushed/pulled/teleported and walked over, etc.). Also the push/pull effect is only 2 spaces per target, but if two things are in the AoE their collective push/pull distance would be 4.


Quote
Krobax's Turblo vs. --- Cost: 2 AP 1 MPGrants +1 MP 100% by Lvl. 100 and starting at Lvl. 101 to 200 a second chance to grant +1 MP 50-100% to Allies.
This spell costs 3AP to cast, not 2AP1MP. At lv0 this spell has a 50% chance to inflict +1MP to the AoE which increases by 0.5 per level to become 100% at lv100. Turblo is somewhat similar to the Enutrof +MP specialty, Prime of Life, but accelerates multiple allies instead of yourself. From my own experiences with this spell, I would rather it cost 2AP1WP than 3AP since the only use for WP Krobax has at the moment is teleporting with Cyclone.


Quote
Krobax's Crobak Blood vs. Shadow's Darkness Blood vs. Astrub Knight's Protector of Astrub Krobax on the other hand is all about pushing/pulling/teleporting crowd control, yet this Blood Passive tries to make him a damage dealer, which he isn't exactly. Not that he can't be used as one, but that's not the reason you'd really purchase him. Shadow get's second place as his Blood Passive supports his type of build, while Krobax's seems out of place.

Maybe they want people to have Krobax as an alternative to Beelzebug, taking some of the raw power back to the store for a refund and picking up some mobility along with some gum at checkout.

I would much rather have this passive give Krobax means of gaining MP from moving things around: as Krobax pushes, pulls, and switches places with things he gains levels of a state (with no effects, like Souitch) that gives him MP after a bunch of spaces he makes things travel. As Krobax levels up this passive needs less levels of the state to gain bonus MP.

Thanks for putting in the effort for everyone by making this thread. I only have experience with Krobax, Skale, and the Astrub Knight so far and was wondering about buying the others. Comparing them to classes and other Multimen helps players decide on whether they want to play a class or have a Multimen fill the role.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-12-03
posté December 19, 2013, 09:33:26 | #28

Quote (Kakenshu @ 19 December 2013 05:44) *
Cyclone can also be used without linear restriction like Transposition.
In the part you quoted me on, I was comparing Cyclone to Assault which also does not have a linear restriction. So I shall leave that part as is.


Quote
Since Sirocco has line of sight restriction, you would only be able to push four targets at a time if the space in the AoE closest to Krobax is occupied by something which does not block line of sight (Rogue afflicted with Smoke, Rogue bombs which can be pushed/pulled/teleported and walked over, etc.). Also the push/pull effect is only 2 spaces per target, but if two things are in the AoE their collective push/pull distance would be 4.
That it does, require LoS that is. Thus why I mentioned it would push/pull "up to 4" targets. This being of course because the space closes to Krobax in the Cross AoE, nothing can be there as it would block line of sight to the targeted cell. I suppose you are correct in that if the item, such as a Rogue Bomb is in that cell, it could actually push a 5th item, just not a mob 5th mob.


Quote
This spell costs 3AP to cast, not 2AP1MP. At lv0 this spell has a 50% chance to inflict +1MP to the AoE which increases by 0.5 per level to become 100% at lv100. Turblo is somewhat similar to the Enutrof +MP specialty, Prime of Life, but accelerates multiple allies instead of yourself. From my own experiences with this spell, I would rather it cost 2AP1WP than 3AP since the only use for WP Krobax has at the moment is teleporting with Cyclone.
You are correct. I don't know how I got 2 AP 1 MP as the cost. It was even in my chart that way. Fixed now (really don't see how I made that mistake as there are no AP/MP combined cost spells on Krobax...).


Quote
Maybe they want people to have Krobax as an alternative to Beelzebug, taking some of the raw power back to the store for a refund and picking up some mobility along with some gum at checkout.

I would much rather have this passive give Krobax means of gaining MP from moving things around: as Krobax pushes, pulls, and switches places with things he gains levels of a state (with no effects, like Souitch) that gives him MP after a bunch of spaces he makes things travel. As Krobax levels up this passive needs less levels of the state to gain bonus MP.
Possible (on the alternative Beelzebug), but we already have 3 damage dealers for Sidekicks (Astrub Knight, Beelzebug, and Shadow). As you mentioned, it would have been much nicer to see a more unique Blood Passive, such as the MP one you came up with, instead of the copy paste passive we received.


Quote
Thanks for putting in the effort for everyone by making this thread. I only have experience with Krobax, Skale, and the Astrub Knight so far and was wondering about buying the others. Comparing them to classes and other Multimen helps players decide on whether they want to play a class or have a Multimen fill the role.
You're welcome. It has taken some time to write this all up and it's nice to know some people have read it =^.^=


===================================


- Fixed Krobax Turblo spell cost in the Krobax Section
- Added in a spell comparison of Trank's Sap Surplus vs. Sram's Bloody Ripoff
- Fixed Chart



Now to finish writing up Lumino so I can be done.
- Kat


Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2013-12-10
posté December 19, 2013, 12:30:32 | #29
What about Gear for Lumino? I mean Shadow (and i guess the Astrub Knight then also) are logical, but what is useful Gear for a Chromatic healer? D: Please Help...


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2012-02-11
posté December 19, 2013, 18:00:26 | #30

Quote (kurokat @ 19 December 2013 09:33) *

Quote (Kakenshu @ 19 December 2013 05:44) *
Cyclone can also be used without linear restriction like Transposition.
In the part you quoted me on, I was comparing Cyclone to Assault which also does not have a linear restriction. So I shall leave that part as is.


Quote
Since Sirocco has line of sight restriction, you would only be able to push four targets at a time if the space in the AoE closest to Krobax is occupied by something which does not block line of sight (Rogue afflicted with Smoke, Rogue bombs which can be pushed/pulled/teleported and walked over, etc.). Also the push/pull effect is only 2 spaces per target, but if two things are in the AoE their collective push/pull distance would be 4.
That it does, require LoS that is. Thus why I mentioned it would push/pull "up to 4" targets. This being of course because the space closes to Krobax in the Cross AoE, nothing can be there as it would block line of sight to the targeted cell. I suppose you are correct in that if the item, such as a Rogue Bomb is in that cell, it could actually push a 5th item, just not a mob 5th mob.

I was definitely wrong about Sirocco (woke up last night when I remembered, decided against getting up to correct myself), though there seems to be an issue while trying to push something on the target space and the space ahead of it: it pushes the target space first, but since the space it would push to is occupied it takes knockback damage and is not pushed at all. It helps when you want to bump something off while behind an ally, but sucks for when you want to push a big crowd all at once because of one thing getting too excited and bumping into someone else.

Assault has no linear restriction at low levels when it only has 1 range, but as its range increases it gains the linear restriction. The encyclopedia forgot that little detail as well as Assault losing line of sight restriction eventually. It also forgets that Rejectattoo, Fist, Lethal Slingshot, and Attraction all have linear restriction. I guess whoever was responsible for making sure the encyclopedia was complete had the runs and was constantly running between making the page for one spell at a time to the toilet.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-12-03
posté December 20, 2013, 00:46:38 | #31

Quote (Kakenshu @ 19 December 2013 18:00) *
Assault has no linear restriction at low levels when it only has 1 range, but as its range increases it gains the linear restriction. The encyclopedia forgot that little detail as well as Assault losing line of sight restriction eventually. It also forgets that Rejectattoo, Fist, Lethal Slingshot, and Attraction all have linear restriction. I guess whoever was responsible for making sure the encyclopedia was complete had the runs and was constantly running between making the page for one spell at a time to the toilet.
Correct on Assault's changing range. In the Krobax Comparison I listed Assault's range as "1 to 1-4 with no LoS, modifiable by Lvl. 121" to indicate that it started at 1, then later, by the time the Sac hits Lvl 121, it becomes 1-4 with no LoS. The second range after that, that is listed, has a line restriction, but that is on the second spell, Light Speed, and it is after an & symbol, like in the title of that spell comparison.

Many of the spells, I had to make test characters just to make sure that the damage's, range, and conditions were correct as the Encyclopedia only lists about 80% of the information.

Lumino is taking longer to finish as I'm making it more complicated than needed. Will hopefully finish soon.


- Kat


This post has been edited by kurokat - December 20, 2013, 00:48:42.
Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2013-12-10
posté December 25, 2013, 17:16:12 | #32
Hy Kat (or Cat? )

What do you think generally about running a full Group with Multiman?
I have 2 Accs and don´t really want to start a third.
So do you think i will be effective if i do Dungeons and Stuff Solo with a full group including 4 multiman later? I actually plan to take Lumino and Skale definately with me... maybe trank as tanky one too and Beelzebug or Shadow as 4th (Still not decided yet about that one )

Your comparisons obv. make it look like that this should be possible

I Am actually a Timelord styled Xelor (no im not Doctor Who... or am i??? )
And have this Old Enutrof Grandmaster at my side

Greetings

Daniel

Edit : I found Videos here of someone doing Dungeons with 4 Multiman

Multiman vs Yech´ti´wawa

Multiman vs Vampyro 


This post has been edited by 2daniel - December 26, 2013, 04:11:20.
Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-12-03
posté December 26, 2013, 04:11:07 | #33

Quote (2daniel @ 25 December 2013 17:16) *
Hy Kat (or Cat? )

What do you think generally about running a full Group with Multiman?
I have 2 Accs and don´t really want to start a third.
So do you think i will be effective if i do Dungeons and Stuff Solo with a full group including 4 multiman later? I actually plan to take Lumino and Skale definately with me... maybe trank as tanky one too and Beelzebug or Shadow as 4th (Still not decided yet about that one )

Your comparisons obv. make it look like that this should be possible

I Am actually a Timelord styled Xelor (no im not Doctor Who... or am i??? )
And have this Old Enutrof Grandmaster at my side

Greetings

Daniel
Hi, and Kat is fine as all of my in game character's have "kat" in the name to make it simple.

I think 2 players and 4 sidekicks work just fine. Of course as long as you can collect gear for them all. Which really is the hardest part. They do an amazing job on their own to not only keep up in level, but to catch up to you, it's just you need a lot more gear.

As stated in my comparisons earlier, they sidekicks are very good, just quite specialized, so you need to look at what your team is doing.

You seem to already have two damage dealers in your group. Unless your Enutrof is a zerker, he probably doesn't tank much with his damage, so it's pure damage dealers for you.

You may already have a revival spell with the Xelor, but I would definitely take Lumino as one of your sidekicks as you have no healer yet.

Trank to tank of course seems like it would help benefit your team as well to keep the enemies away from your main damage dealers.

I would pick either between Skale or Krobax, you probably don't need both support. As I don't know the elements of your main's, it's harder to make informed choices. Krobax may be better if you're a Punishment Xelor as then you can push and pull the enemies onto the dial spaces, though that extra AP and free move out of lock is nice from Skale. You may however not need the extra AP as you have a Xelor already and I'm not sure how +AP works on a zerker Enu, if that's what yours is.

On your fourth, it really depends on if you want more support (by taking Skale or Krobax, the one you didn't take for your third, though I don't think you need that much support and killing things more with a damage dealer would be best to round everything out) or if you want more damage. When going with damage, as I mentioned to another, think of it as, do you want an Iop or a Cra in your party? Beelzebug has incredible range, so will be damaging every turn and his AoE will work well with your tank as well as any enemies that get to close to your other allies. Shadow will of course be much more in your face and you will need a lot more gear if you want to be able to switch his elements. Thus he can be more universal than Beelzebug if you plan ahead. His MP stealing and jumps will help him close the distance easier at higher levels and he has a slightly higher damage output (in exchange of course for that shorter range.

Soo... something like this?

1. Xelor (of unknown type)
2. Enutrof (of unknown type)
3. Lumino
4. Trank
5. Krobax/Skale
6. Beelzebug/Shadow

I would narrow down the 5 & 6 choices more, but I don't know your characters well at all to make that kind of decision. Personally (if I was to actually level my Xelor and Enu), my Xelor is a Fire/Air type and my Enu is a Zerker pure Earth type, so I would take Skale and Beelzebug as my last two. Now of course that wouldn't work in the end for me as my Xelor and Enu are on the same account though...



- Kat


P.S. And no, I've not forgot about my Lumino Comparison, it's just taking me longer to decide how exactly I'm writing/comparing it all and with the holiday's just passing, got busy and lazy. It will be done though soon, hopefully.


Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2013-12-10
posté December 26, 2013, 04:28:04 | #34
Well... i actually planning to swap my Enutrof out, since i just want more Raw Power!
I am actually following Mangos Fire/Air Xelor Build and im pretty pleased so far.
Even if im only lvl 89 yet my Damage feels like good enough to Destroy a whole Island... well maybe not... Not totally decided yet about the second Char, maybe i take Cra, since i don´t like Sacrieurs (or atleast don´t like to play them) or either Iops...
I just want Devastating Power!
I think i will Stick with Lumino,Shadow,Skale and Trank in the end

P.s. i edited some Video Links to Multiman vs. Dungeons in my last Post in, just in case you don´t noticed yet^^ Worth a look imo  


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-12-03
posté December 26, 2013, 04:36:48 | #35
I did see it, it was quite nice. The were using a Fire Enu and a Fire Iop with 2 Tranks, a Lumino and a Skale. Seemed to work well.

And on pure power, Enu's actually have that quite well, especially as pure Fire and pure Earth Zerker types. Mango's Fire/Air Xelor build is quite nice as well and I too use it as reference. Sac's can have high damage, but more depending how you use them. Cra's are of course a pure damage class at range. Ecaflips, if you don't mind a bit of chance, have some insane nuking power. Srams with support from sidekicks like Skale now are absolutely amazing single target damage. Rogue's of course have their bombs and piercing shots.... could go on, as most classes have ways of building at least one pure damage route or more.


- Kat


Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2013-12-10
posté December 26, 2013, 04:48:33 | #36
He don´t used 2 Tranks, it was Shadow in the 4th Spot

I have on of those Zerker Type Enutrofs in my Guild, and hes definately Strong... but im pretty sure i don´t like to play this on my own :/
I would like to use a Sram, but im a bit curious about the Viability of this class.
Well the most of my Informations belong to Stuff i found on the Forums but ppl often say that Srams are not useful to Teams and Stuff...
I also think that Cras are useful but still boooooooooring... as already in Dofus
Ecaflip could be interesting... can you say that Ecas are good actually, and also have great Damage Potential yet? I kinda like odd stuff... If you say its viable, then this would be enough for me to give it a try  


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-12-03
posté December 26, 2013, 05:18:02 | #37
Ah, you're right, It was a Trank and Shadow (not sure why I was seeing two...) but ah well.

Srams are fun, but will be getting a revamp after the Feca's, so who know's what will change. I personally have a Water Sram. Decent damage, but the lowest of the Srams. Water however has the sustainability with being able to heal themselves as they attack while stealing AP and MP (sadly not guaranteed anymore, so you have to watch out for hyperaction/movement). Fire has really high damage output. Technically the highest if you build the state, or else it's just decent damage. Air builds are generally pure double Trauma builds. Gives you the most consistant high damage for a Sram, but of course all you'll be doing is Trauma's. Doubles with any Sram greatly increases damage output of course. Invisible Sram, I would recommend avoiding for now as they are relatively buggy and with the removed perception stat, it's hard to stay invisible without maxing all the invisible specialties and even then... Not saying it cannot work, but it takes a bit of know how and practice and again, revamp inbound and that will probably be a large part of the revamp.

On Eca's, as I've personally only messed around with them for a bit and don't main one, all I can go off of is what I've seen and if you know how to play the odds right, Eca's seemingly have the highest nuking potential (at a risk of say healing the opponent instead, remember, they're gamblers). Eca's are quite viable if you go Earth or Fire (I believe Fire has a higher damage output, but could be wrong, best to ask in the Eca Forum). Water Eca's I like cause you get to lick people, but they seem a bit odder and have quasi heals and jumps and the like. I've seen some make Water Eca's work, but they are the least used of the Eca Tree's

Cra's can be fun if you like to Nuke things at range and jump around and there are a lot of styles. Of course Hybrids are there, but as the main tree's go, Air has the greatest range and a no LoS spell. One AoE spell as well and Air Cra's used to be overly OP because of that spell. Still very good. Fire seems to be one of the most common (for me to meet at least) with the shortest range, but massive AoE's and damage. Personally I use a pure Earth Cra. They can be the trickiest to learn of the three, but once you get it right, they highest damage is there (single target) and they have the most amazingly large range and flexible AoE bounce spell, Piercing Arrow. It can hit up to 5 targets, splitting from the first into two, then bouncing a second time. Makes for fun trick shots around allies and obstacles. Top it off with building up Riddling/Reach on a target than nuking it with a Destructive Arrow is quite satisfying.

And of course, don't play a Zerker Enu if it's not your style. You're always best playing something fun over any other reasons. Just because one class is "useful" or "recommended" for this or that, if you have no fun playing it, then really, what's the point? I for one like becoming all fuzzy and bashing the enemies face in =^.^=





- Kat


Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2013-12-10
posté December 27, 2013, 18:44:22 | #38
Well... in the end i have a third acc now xD (don´t ask )
Actually i wanna keep my Good old enutrof with me then, but im not sure if i really wanna change his element... guess i still try to handle it the best way between water damage and some pp against the new pp cap now. For the third i actually considering a Ecaflip, where i guess i take the Fire Branch and let the dices judge...

Im still working my Future Team out^^
I also thought to myself, why should i take an Eniripsa if i have Lumino who is kinda pretty good at Healing literally on later levels, has also a revive (so with my mummification we have even 2 then )
and can come with me/us to anything except UB´s...

In terms of Multiman i think that let them fill in the Healer or Support Role is actually more effectiv then making them your Damagers! Not to mention that the choices are a bit limited since Shadow and the Knight are chromatic but atleast mostly Melee, while your only real Damage Multiman beside them is Beelzebug which is linked to fire...

So i actually have the Theory that they can do very great Support like Healing, Ap buff, anti-dodge buff (so huge!!!), Skales overall Damage Buff for the Group or just leting Trank take some Hits and lock enemys (which i guess is pretty efficient later on thx to his wakfu lock buff spell)
In the end i think it will be more effective to bring the Destructive Power on your Own, and let fill in the Multiman the Gap! I could be wrong about this, but actually it really feels like this for me, and im coming closer to a good Line-up now

Ofc anything can chance soon, and my third only have a month of sub yet so canßt tell 100% if i keep him^^ Lets see what the Future brings

sincerely your favourite Xelor

Daniel

P.s. : So my Multiman actually will be Lumino,Trank and Skale

So i still try to get my Multiman Stronger and more viable
Since there is not much Information or Material on the web for Multiman (Trust me, i searched often )
beside Kat´s nice comparisons above, i wanna try to upload some stuff (guess mostly Dungeons or atleas Dungeon Bosses) with a party of my 2 and 4 Multiman.
So maybe some people can take a better picture of what the Multiman actually can do on a decent level.

Click here


This post has been edited by 2daniel - January 05, 2014, 04:46:19.
Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-10-31
posté January 15, 2014, 14:51:33 | #39
Where is Lumino?

-Rizarealm


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2010-11-13
posté January 16, 2014, 15:03:20 | #40

Quote (SeriousBelly @ 15 January 2014 14:51) *
Where is Lumino?

-Rizarealm

Guess Kat is busy... or forgot about this thread x)

My Lumino is around lvl 119 now and can heal round 300 with his 4 Ap Heal now, so with 10 Ap base he can go for 800+ already... Think thats definately good