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Thoughts about raising PP Cap for Enutrofs?
Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-04-26
posté January 28, 2014, 02:50:39 | #1
Thoughts about raising PP Cap for Enutrofs? By raise, I mean raise, not double, much less removal. I am thinking raise of even by only 30 is a good idea. As a matter of fact, I find 30 a good number.

The reason is because I have been having the impression that Enutrof is the treasure hunting classes, that is given some innate advantage over acquiring loot. Now with the cap, Enutrof effectively have not a lot more than other classes when it comes to acquiring loot.

So, what do people think? If you agree, let me know. With enough people agree, who knows, this might turn into a petition.

If you disagree, please also provide your thoughts.

And please remember to keep the discussion civilized.


This post has been edited by Kouromaro - January 28, 2014, 19:28:10.
Reason for edit : Clarification of intent.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté January 28, 2014, 02:57:58 | #2
200 instead of 150, please.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-03
posté January 28, 2014, 02:59:31 | #3
It is Halloween alll yearrr around now.


Candyyy alll dayy, alll dayyyy.... everrryyyy dayyyy everrryy day


This post has been edited by aquabeauty - January 28, 2014, 04:41:23.
Soft Crackler * Member Since 2012-02-26
posté January 28, 2014, 03:10:58 | #4
I'll be very disappointed if some ignorant player comes into this thread proclaiming that pouches should be an Enu's only loot advantage over other classes. There are three branches to every class, you know, and unless you're a WATER Enutrof, it's very difficult to successfully pouch enemies. The chance of pouching is directly proportional to the water spell's level, and at level 1 it's only 5%!


Not so Hairy Moon * Member Since 2012-01-22
posté January 28, 2014, 03:19:52 | #5
I completely disagree with the idea of increasing the cap for Enutrofs.



Spoiler: (highlight to show)
Remove the cap entirely for everyone instead. It should have never happened in the first place.
 


Community Helper * Member Since 2013-01-14
posté January 28, 2014, 03:22:11 | #6

Quote (Merriden @ 28 January 2014 03:10) *
I'll be very disappointed if some ignorant player comes into this thread proclaiming that pouches should be an Enu's only loot advantage over other classes. There are three branches to every class, you know, and unless you're a WATER Enutrof, it's very difficult to successfully pouch enemies. The chance of pouching is directly proportional to the water spell's level, and at level 1 it's only 5%!
If I'm not mistaken, Enus are the only class that can passively stat PP and also gain PP in a fight. I don't think pouches are all they have going for them PP wise.

EDIT: I double checked their abilities to make sure I wasn't incorrect.

Treasure Tracker - Up to 30 prospecting passively.
Mines - Earn extra PP (on top of the cap) during a fight by standing on a mine and hitting a target.
God Enutrof's Blessing - Chance of random gift.
Pouches - chance to drop item from Mobs loot table.

I know pouches are water exclusive, but they're far from the only thing that makes the class Treasure Hunters. Theres 3 other abilities there that aren't element specific that increase their PP or chance of getting 'treasure'. To me knowledge, no other class has any special abilities to get loot, so I still feel they live up to their roll  


This post has been edited by tashlol - January 28, 2014, 03:33:00.
Not so Hairy Moon * Member Since 2012-01-22
posté January 28, 2014, 03:31:01 | #7

Quote (tashlol @ 28 January 2014 03:22) *

Quote (Merriden @ 28 January 2014 03:10) *
I'll be very disappointed if some ignorant player comes into this thread proclaiming that pouches should be an Enu's only loot advantage over other classes. There are three branches to every class, you know, and unless you're a WATER Enutrof, it's very difficult to successfully pouch enemies. The chance of pouching is directly proportional to the water spell's level, and at level 1 it's only 5%!
If I'm not mistaken, Enus are the only class that can passively stat PP and also gain PP in a fight. I don't think pouches are all they have going for them PP wise.

Indeed, Enutrofs can gain 130 PP from passive skills.
The cap however has raised a bit of a problem for Enus: Prospecting gear is kinda worthless now. Since they gain nothing drop wise past 150, there's no reason for one to wear PP gear, since regular gear will far outclass even the damage boost from PP. If it's slapped on top of already good gear, that's fine.

Funny that. Prospecting is more useful to everyone than the prospector.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-03-01
posté January 28, 2014, 04:00:51 | #8
if they do this I want the dodge cap increased for masqueraiders


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2012-02-26
posté January 28, 2014, 04:25:48 | #9

Quote (MiniMikeh @ 28 January 2014 04:00) *
if they do this I want the dodge cap increased for masqueraiders

No one cares about masqs.


Quote (tashlol @ 28 January 2014 03:22) *
If I'm not mistaken, Enus are the only class that can passively stat PP and also gain PP in a fight. I don't think pouches are all they have going for them PP wise.

Treasure Tracker - Up to 30 prospecting passively.
Mines - Earn extra PP (on top of the cap) during a fight by standing on a mine and hitting a target.
God Enutrof's Blessing - Chance of random gift.
Pouches - chance to drop item from Mobs loot table.

I know pouches are water exclusive, but they're far from the only thing that makes the class Treasure Hunters. Theres 3 other abilities there that aren't element specific that increase their PP or chance of getting 'treasure'. To me knowledge, no other class has any special abilities to get loot, so I still feel they live up to their roll

Blessing doesn't actually count for drops, since usually it gives you a yew log. 6_9

Also, Tash, the whole point of the thread you're posting in is that BECAUSE of the things you listed, the recent cap to Prospecting was a solid nerf to Enutrofs.


This post has been edited by Merriden - January 28, 2014, 04:29:48.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté January 28, 2014, 04:44:53 | #10
The fact that they are putting off the drop rate revamp after they capped pp is not making me a happy camper.


Community Helper * Member Since 2013-01-14
posté January 28, 2014, 04:55:07 | #11

Quote (Merriden @ 28 January 2014 04:25) *

Quote (tashlol @ 28 January 2014 03:22) *
If I'm not mistaken, Enus are the only class that can passively stat PP and also gain PP in a fight. I don't think pouches are all they have going for them PP wise.

Treasure Tracker - Up to 30 prospecting passively.
Mines - Earn extra PP (on top of the cap) during a fight by standing on a mine and hitting a target.
God Enutrof's Blessing - Chance of random gift.
Pouches - chance to drop item from Mobs loot table.

I know pouches are water exclusive, but they're far from the only thing that makes the class Treasure Hunters. Theres 3 other abilities there that aren't element specific that increase their PP or chance of getting 'treasure'. To me knowledge, no other class has any special abilities to get loot, so I still feel they live up to their roll

Blessing doesn't actually count for drops, since usually it gives you a yew log. 6_9

Also, Tash, the whole point of the thread you're posting in is that BECAUSE of the things you listed, the recent cap to Prospecting was a solid nerf to Enutrofs.
Tashlol is the name I have chosen to be known as on these forums, so please call me by it

I am aware that the prospecting was nerfed and that lots of players are upset, however I was replying to your response about how Pouching is/should be the Enu's only loot advantage (I am aware you aren't saying that it should be). I felt it on-topic to point out that there are other loot advantages that Enus have, and in the same line of thinking, felt it relevant to mention the other ability that adds to their title of the Treasure Hunter class.

To be completely honest, I think the drop system we currently have is hugely unfair and is just getting worse. Its hard to see how the Devs feel comfortable creating a false sense of challenge to obtain items, rather than an actual fun and difficult way of doing so. The problem with Enus is that they're a playable class. The drop system is awful, and its hugely unfair that a particular class has a better chance at dropping than the rest. If there were alternative ways to get the same gear, or gear that was just as good, that wasn't through dropping off mobs, then I'd personally have no issue with Enus.

However, instead of creating a more fair system of obtaining items other than through drops, they 'evened the playing field' by again, creating a false sense of challenge. The PP cap does not 'nerf' Enus but just makes things grindier and harder. With stupidly high prospecting locks, its now vital to have 2 Enus in group, or skip out on a bunch of damage on a DD to wear PP gear. This cap does not just effect Enus but every single player.


Quote (MiniMikeh @ 28 January 2014 04:00) *
if they do this I want the dodge cap increased for masqueraiders
I could understand this if the cap to both dodge and prospecting somehow effected the damage bonus masq and enu's get, but it doesn't. A Masq's dodge doesn't impact everyone in the group, nor does it effect loot dropping (arguably the most important aspect of the game).

[Text Removed - Atdose] 


This post has been edited by [MOD]Atdose - February 08, 2014, 02:13:54.
Reason for edit : [Forum Rules Violation - Flaming]
Soft Crackler * Member Since 2013-05-10
posté January 28, 2014, 04:57:36 | #12
Sure enutrof is the treasure hunting class. That's the RP for it. Yet do sadidas make plants grow faster? Do osas raise pets faster? Enus the one getting a non-combat benefit from their RP. Giving a class 2x+ base drop is stupid to begin with. That advantage should get delete or greatly reduced, get rid of pp locks and raise drop rates across the board for everyone.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-03-01
posté January 28, 2014, 05:34:07 | #13

Quote (tashlol @ 28 January 2014 04:55) *


Quote (MiniMikeh @ 28 January 2014 04:00) *
if they do this I want the dodge cap increased for masqueraiders
I could understand this if the cap to both dodge and prospecting somehow effected the damage bonus masq and enu's get, but it doesn't. A Masq's dodge doesn't impact everyone in the group, nor does it effect loot dropping (arguably the most important aspect of the game)


Giving classes specific tweaks to the cap of stats is a good idea and my suggestion is adding to it to make it more fair for everyone.

Ecaflips having an increase of cap to crit
Masks having an increase of cap to dodge
enutrofs bypassing the pp cap
cras having an increase of range cap
fecas having an increase of block cap
sacriers having an increase of lock cap
rogues having an increase to the eventual initiative cap

[Text Removed - Atdose] 


This post has been edited by [MOD]Atdose - February 08, 2014, 02:13:51.
Reason for edit : [Forum Rules Violation - Flaming]
Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-03-05
posté January 28, 2014, 05:39:12 | #14
any enu should have the ranged pouch spell leveled. If you dont then dont complain you cant pouch.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2013-03-09
posté January 28, 2014, 06:13:01 | #15
I can't even bring myself to gear up my enu again. I just stick fire sac and eni in lenald + maltial capes and maka prospecting rings and roll with +300 pp and 4 MM.

The damage bonus on prospecting might be worth it if there was anything decent under lvl 130 for prospecting gear. Vamp at least used to have a bit more prospecting.

Wouldn't mind a minor cap raise for enu or at least some better PP gear keeping in mind that enus are stuck using PP as damage only.


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2012-02-26
posté January 28, 2014, 06:18:49 | #16

Quote (tashlol @ 28 January 2014 04:55) *
Tashlol is the name I have chosen to be known as on these forums, so please call me by it

I edited my post because at first I called you Nova.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté January 28, 2014, 15:55:29 | #17
This is the problem Ankama runs into time and again by changing the basic mechanics of a game well after release. Bringing Enu's and the rest of the classes closer in terms of drop chance was the right move. Unfortunately, Enu's have had this advantage for so freakin long it will always feel like a massive nerf. Not revamping the loot system at the same time was also a d*** move.

Ankama can't remove the PP cap now without making large changes to the game. Two challenges could net you like 200pp, add in candy and combined with a 400pp Enu that is very very high. I don't want to see 6 Enu's in a party ever again.

To answer the OP, No, don't raise the PP cap, especially not just for Enu's.

Improve the loot system instead.

Also, remove the dodge cap on Masq's. Why on earth Ankama decided to slap Masq's in the face I'll never know.


Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2013-07-19
posté January 28, 2014, 16:19:20 | #18

Quote (Gynrei @ 28 January 2014 15:55) *

To answer the OP, No, don't raise the PP cap, especially not just for Enu's.

Improve the loot system instead.

Also, remove the dodge cap on Masq's. Why on earth Ankama decided to slap Masq's in the face I'll never know.
Mostly this. Enus had way to big of an item drop advantage. They could sit around soloing things while being able to drop items that were supposed to be group drop only items (400pp capped items) by themselves. The loot system should be improved on.

I dont agree with removing dodge cap while leaving the lock cap. That logic makes 0 sense to me. I also dont think certain classes should be above certain caps. The idea just makes no sense to me and isn't fair to the classes that dont have a 'cap stat' to overcome. Ankama has slapped a lot of classes in the face, not just masq's.


Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté January 28, 2014, 16:23:10 | #19

Quote (Gynrei @ 28 January 2014 15:55) *
Improve the loot system instead.
Short and Sweet, enough said.


Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-04-26
posté January 28, 2014, 19:20:53 | #20

Quote (Gynrei @ 28 January 2014 15:55) *
This is the problem Ankama runs into time and again by changing the basic mechanics of a game well after release. Bringing Enu's and the rest of the classes closer in terms of drop chance was the right move. Unfortunately, Enu's have had this advantage for so freakin long it will always feel like a massive nerf. Not revamping the loot system at the same time was also a d*** move.

Ankama can't remove the PP cap now without making large changes to the game. Two challenges could net you like 200pp, add in candy and combined with a 400pp Enu that is very very high. I don't want to see 6 Enu's in a party ever again.

To answer the OP, No, don't raise the PP cap, especially not just for Enu's.

Improve the loot system instead.

Also, remove the dodge cap on Masq's. Why on earth Ankama decided to slap Masq's in the face I'll never know.
May I remind you that I ask about a raise, not remove?

What you just said is remove, which is indeed bad.
I personally don't like the old system that much either. Potentially getting huge PP, I had this friend who forced me to play as the PP slave, which lead to one of my quit from Wakfu.

Again, a raise. And I propose 30/150. That means at pp cap, Enu is 280/250 = 1.12 more likely to drop items compare to other classes.

Not that I disagree with your idea about improving loot system. But also bear in mind what they are planning is a revamp, not necessarily an improve. For the time being, I have no opinion on this business.


Quote (MiniMikeh @ 28 January 2014 05:34) *

Giving classes specific tweaks to the cap of stats is a good idea and my suggestion is adding to it to make it more fair for everyone.


Indeed I find this idea very interesting. I am all for it.


Quote (Icekin @ 28 January 2014 03:19) *
I completely disagree with the idea of increasing the cap for Enutrofs.



Spoiler: (highlight to show)
Remove the cap entirely for everyone instead. It should have never happened in the first place.
Eh, Idk. I feel somewhat better as I have listened less complain about Enu's uber drops after the cap is put in place. (Which is obvious)


This post has been edited by Kouromaro - January 28, 2014, 19:30:55.