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Cheating by alt voting

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Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté February 02, 2014, 19:31:30 | #41
Thank you guys for helping. I feel the same towards the most popular solution. It would help, but we would still have to work with the multi-boxers. I don't know if there is a way to stop the multi-boxers, but the idea of one character per account,per nation does seem to be one of the best ideas yet.

I also like the idea of having more conquerable islands. It would promote more wars, but maybe in the long run, we would be better off. More bonuses would be nice. I understand that this would be a huge problem, but what if the island holder had it's own drop rate? It could have a chance of dropping items off of mobs, not dungeons of course. The items could be posted on the market automatically, and the kamas of sold items would go to the nation's treasury?

Lastly the no government idea. I like how we have the freedom to be a governor. Would this idea be something temporary until a revamp?


Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2012-05-15
posté February 02, 2014, 20:36:01 | #42
Okay so I found other solutions that have either been brought up, or used in other games. I'm not promoting, or bashing any of these, but I'd like to know what you guys think!


1. 1 vote per account. Per nation (no voting in same election with 3 characters from one location.)

2. Even if they meet the level/cp requirement, they must be active in the game for X amount of hours/days prior to voting. (to prevent alt X from logging in, casting vote for his main, then disappearing into inactivity).

3. In Lusternia there is a weight to your char that affects voting. It's activity level based so people that log only to vote would be a 1 for example, while a character active X amount of hours every day would be a 10.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2013-03-16
posté February 02, 2014, 20:38:54 | #43

Quote (-R-a-V-e-N- @ 02 February 2014 20:36) *
Okay so I found other solutions that have either been brought up, or used in other games. I'm not promoting, or bashing any of these, but I'd like to know what you guys think!


1. 1 vote per account. Per nation (no voting in same election with 3 characters from one location.)

2. Even if they meet the level/cp requirement, they must be active in the game for X amount of hours/days prior to voting. (to prevent alt X from logging in, casting vote for his main, then disappearing into inactivity).

3. In Lusternia there is a weight to your char that affects voting. It's activity level based so people that log only to vote would be a 1 for example, while a character active X amount of hours every day would be a 10.
i approve of and endorse these ideas

-mini


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-03
posté February 03, 2014, 07:06:55 | #44
Oh boy sounds to me like.. the alt voter governments all got alt OUT voted.

Honestly every nation government alt-votes. Don't try to golden scara dung me with the "I have guild support" dried droppings because I am not going to feed into that fake breadela . YOU'RE GUILTY AS CHARGED

But seriously...Oh wow someone didn't win for the 6th consecutive month. Boo Hoo.

Politics, is always full of lying cheats even on games.

~___~

Lets hope that who ever is being demonized does not hog the position for the next few months like most people do anyways. He/she probably learned from the best; THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN HOGGING FOR MONTHS NOW.

There should be a rule to stop you all from consecutively being in the government. Something like one class on the account can participate in government every 3 months. That way you can all stop playing "Im a victim" when almost everyone [as i know this does not apply to everyone; there fore almost] is guilty of the crime.

My only advice is:::

Give someone else a chance, jeez. This is one of the reasons why new players quit. It's like as if you people don't realize that they have enough astrub sewer rat droppings from ankama to deal with. ive meet mid-new players that want to run for government and have great ideas but they cant even run for government because of hoot'nannies guilds and people that don't wanna share the ugly insignia it gives.

I can't remember the names of the current hoot'nannies in government right now anyways. I know you all want to run for notoriety but honestly most people don't care anyways; so fail.

Alt voters arguing with alt-voters look like:

 


This post has been edited by aquabeauty - February 03, 2014, 07:51:50.
Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté February 03, 2014, 07:37:40 | #45
The beginning of the thread was full of arguments, & I'm hoping we can stop these arguments so that we can be constructive. Despite the way some players may feel about each other, everyone wants to find a solution for alt-voting.

I hate to be that guy, but please stop poking bears with sticks. I think we can figure something out together that can benefit everybody.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté February 03, 2014, 07:45:53 | #46
We've already gone over why alt-voting sucks and I don't think we need to repeat everything again. There's nothing stopping from people from using 10+ accounts to alt-vote themselves in and that's not okay.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-03
posté February 03, 2014, 07:48:42 | #47

Quote (RaVeN-Fifteen @ 03 February 2014 07:37) *
The beginning of the thread was full of arguments, & I'm hoping we can stop these arguments so that we can be constructive. Despite the way some players may feel about each other, everyone wants to find a solution for alt-voting.

I hate to be that guy, but please stop poking bears with sticks. I think we can figure something out together that can benefit everybody.
Agreed, and that is far more productive.

1. I've suggested this over a year ago but got shut down by my fellow hater club. But honestly I believe there should be one vote per account no matter what.

a. Unless a multi-boxer has 20 accounts; 6 accounts should not be game breaking

2. Accounts should only be allowed to participate in government once every "x" amount of time. We can decide what that "x" can be

3. Another option is that there could be guild rotation. For example: If there are 20 guilds in each nation then there could be a "rotation" in which guilds can option into if they would like to run for government. Like wise they can option out. This makes it so that those infamous guilds do not hog all government positions. Because other guilds big or small will have the ability to run if they choose to. You could face off guild v. guild and then pick the best candidate in your guild. Or you could face off with the "guild representative" that each guild has selected. Again the rotation of guilds would be fair, so once every rotation, a guild can run for government with their elected representative.

4. Let there be POLITICS, if more people get involved in politics then more people would like to help to fix nation items. I honestly believe that specific element nation bonuses destroyed "nation pride" If there is some sort of rotation where multiple people can get involved THEN the nation pride will return.

5. LETS RUN FOR GOVERNMENT!! Let us advertise, let us pay for advertisement let there be propaganda, let there be server announcements and world chat for the people running. Let us link forum threads in game that direct us to Awesome threads that are more in depth and pretty!! Let there be posters! rawr.

6. Let guilds face off!!! If there is a rotation let there be 2~3 guilds running at a time. Make it a face off!! Make it fun!!


Just my two cents.. and I KNOW there are probably better ideas. But I ask that instead of continuing to bash you all comment to make them better ideas especially on the things you disagree with OR post up your own ideas.

Constructive Criticism for the win. We all know the current system is unfair and people love to abuse it; fact, be done with it.


This post has been edited by aquabeauty - February 03, 2014, 07:56:30.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté February 03, 2014, 07:51:58 | #48
There are certain people who buy other peoples accounts and I don't think you have to be subbed to vote. You just need CP. They could buy dozens of accounts from people and use them all to alt-vote themselves in. We think this may have been the case with the last election, if only to get the previous governor with consecutive wins off the throne.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-03
posté February 03, 2014, 07:57:52 | #49

Quote (Asthis @ 03 February 2014 07:51) *
There are certain people who buy other peoples accounts and I don't think you have to be subbed to vote. You just need CP. They could buy dozens of accounts from people and use them all to alt-vote themselves in. We think this may have been the case with the last election, if only to get the previous governor with consecutive wins off the throne.
SOLVED Thats ankama's fault again! It is something they need to fix.

Adding this to the list:

7. Must be subscribed to vote. You shouldn't even need cp. Grinding for no reason, yet again and this time for a system that does not even work.


Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2012-01-11
posté February 03, 2014, 08:10:57 | #50
I feel the problem with heavy alt voters is that they often do a terrible job. This is because no one wants them as Gov, so they do not really have much guidance on how to be a decent ruler or what to even do as Gov. For example it has been a few days and there are more empty spots in cabinet than filled spots. Which to me raises a flag for concern.


Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2013-11-02
posté February 03, 2014, 10:37:38 | #51

Quote (FinroyThePuppeteer @ 02 February 2014 09:26) *

Quote (Zadistforlife @ 02 February 2014 09:23) *

Perhaps getting rid of the system completely, because what else can you do?

That's the thing - we either need to ask for a reasonable solution or ask to eradicate the system. I myself as no friend of PVP find no joy in fighting, but if you feel you need one, come, offer a solution.
Careful what you wish for, because that's exactly what they're doing to the Almanax quests

"It's too much work to make it work correctly, so we're just scrapping it altogether." And thus another piece of the game that adds to the background materials and versatility of the game gets killed.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-07-03
posté February 03, 2014, 10:57:49 | #52

Quote (Kaitenzushi @ 03 February 2014 10:37) *

Quote (FinroyThePuppeteer @ 02 February 2014 09:26) *

Quote (Zadistforlife @ 02 February 2014 09:23) *

Perhaps getting rid of the system completely, because what else can you do?

That's the thing - we either need to ask for a reasonable solution or ask to eradicate the system. I myself as no friend of PVP find no joy in fighting, but if you feel you need one, come, offer a solution.
Careful what you wish for, because that's exactly what they're doing to the Almanax quests

"It's too much work to make it work correctly, so we're just scrapping it altogether." And thus another piece of the game that adds to the background materials and versatility of the game gets killed.
Just gotta wait and see

 


Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2012-02-15
posté February 03, 2014, 16:02:16 | #53

Quote (androgyous @ 03 February 2014 08:10) *
I feel the problem with heavy alt voters is that they often do a terrible job. This is because no one wants them as Gov, so they do not really have much guidance on how to be a decent ruler or what to even do as Gov. For example it has been a few days and there are more empty spots in cabinet than filled spots. Which to me raises a flag for concern.

This is true...

This is why the system is broken.

How else can anyone new become a "good" governor without ever being given a single chance because no one wants to take a step in their direction when they can just vote for a well known and popular player who has all the experience in government.

Having the popular vote in this glorified popularity contest is everything. So those who are "new" are usually just a face that is running in the election against the guy that everyone will vote for. Of course they'd alt vote. They couldn't win an election otherwise.

There needs to be a limit of some kind. One person should not be able to completely monopolize the government in this game.

This is a feature that was supposed to be for anyone and everyone but it hardly feels that way.

The cabinet has various rotations, we've all seen it. So it's not all bad. New government yearning players can always be picked up into a position in the cabinet to learn a bit of how a "popular" governor functions while also understanding the various roles assigned to the fellow members of the cabinet.

However, as things are, usually you will only see the same face ( or even their alt) wearing the crown. I believe Aqua said it best here
Quote
Quote
Give someone else a chance, jeez

Even with a limit for how many terms in a row one is allowed to run (and become) governor, there will always be "that guy" who just has their alt run the next time and then rotate between their alt and main account each election.

Though some form of limit is better than none. Being unable to run again in the next election if you won the last time (unless you were impeached) would be a fine limit even if it doesn't change much.

Hopefully the political revamp sheds light to these concerns.


posté February 03, 2014, 16:06:33 | #54
Well, it seems most of all agree on same thing.
1) one vote per acc
2) Some solution for multiboxing
3) We need to wait and see
4) System is rotten


This post has been edited by FinroyThePuppeteer - February 03, 2014, 16:06:48.
Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-08-28
posté February 03, 2014, 16:49:40 | #55
I agree with all the things Aquabeauty suggested.

Also voting on Multi accounters could be solved by limiting them to vote on one account and one account only by blocking the IP adres of the person who votes on all the other accounts.

For example: If I am a person with 20 accounts, I should be able to vote on 1 account only. When voted on 1 account all the rest of my 19 accounts should get blocked for voting by an IP adres tracking system.


This post has been edited by Karakedi - February 03, 2014, 17:17:01.
Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-06-16
posté February 03, 2014, 18:24:09 | #56
What if a quest was made? Named something like YOUR VOTE COUNTS.

Its simple quests to earn voting tokens. Tokens expire in 2 weeks. The quest is received by talking to Jonk, and the quest lasts 2 weeks and you have a list of things to do. OR it could be 1 thing to do per day. The max amount of tokens at one time is 10. So if you do the daily quest all 14 days, you will still only get 10 tokens max. The quest would be something like the almanax. Each one gives 1 token.

Ride a dragoturkey
Take a boat to calamar island
Complete a dungeon
Use the wave emote
Mint 100 kamas
Harvest 10 crops
Harvest 10 herbs
Kill a scara

things like that, easy things so all levels can do them.
or have slightly different quests for higher level people. so instead of killing a scara, you have to kill a monk or a mecha.
You could also get a small reward like the almanax for completing one of the quests. (10 wis, 10 dmg, 10 hp)

The tokens could also be split up between people running for governor.
When voting you could see how many times you voted for each person running. You will not see other peoples or alts votes, only your own.
No getting back your tokens to vote for someone else either.
And since we all like to get titles and achievements, how about a title called THE VOTER or LOYAL CITIZEN or something similar when you vote a total of 50 times.
Tokens would also be nation specific and of course non-tradeable.


Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté February 03, 2014, 18:25:38 | #57
One thing to remember is that alts can be cycled through. And IPs can be changed.


Like mentioned before:
In Lusternia there is a weight to your char that affects voting. It's activity level based so people that log only to vote would be a 1 for example, while a character active X amount of hours every day would be a 10.

Maybe something like this would work with more restrictions. Maybe this would work if we added:
One character per account, per nation. Level & CP point requirements would still remain of course.



Pros:

1. Would stop 30 alts from being used, because they wouldn't just have to log 30 accounts, but keep them logged in for hours a day.

2. Would help the players that play more, because they are the people that would be working with a governor the most.

3. Would create more reasons to spread alts out through different nations. This can help the populations, ecosystems, possibly markets, and other nation's politics.


Cons:

1. People not able to play a certain amount of time would complain, not having a large enough voice..
(although this is just another reason to benefit the players that are online more, because they are dealing with a possible troll governor more.)

2.Would still give multi-boxers an edge, but at least less of an edge since everyone would be under the activity rule, and not just the one per acct rule.


posté February 03, 2014, 18:29:46 | #58

Quote (RaVeN-Fifteen @ 03 February 2014 18:25) *
One thing to remember is that alts can be cycled through. And IPs can be changed.


Like mentioned before:
In Lusternia there is a weight to your char that affects voting. It's activity level based so people that log only to vote would be a 1 for example, while a character active X amount of hours every day would be a 10.

Maybe something like this would work with more restrictions. Maybe this would work if we added:
One character per account, per nation. Level & CP point requirements would still remain of course.



Pros:

1. Would stop 30 alts from being used, because they wouldn't just have to log 30 accounts, but keep them logged in for hours a day.

2. Would help the players that play more, because they are the people that would be working with a governor the most.

3. Would create more reasons to spread alts out through different nations. This can help the populations, ecosystems, possibly markets, and other nation's politics.


Cons:

1. People not able to play a certain amount of time would complain, not having a large enough voice..
(although this is just another reason to benefit the players that are online more, because they are dealing with a possible troll governor more.)

2.Would still give multi-boxers an edge, but at least less of an edge since everyone would be under the activity rule, and not just the one per acct rule.
This actually made me think of other proposition - to raise the cp needed for voting. Then alt voting will be harder. People wouldn't bother to gather cp on so many alts, I'm almost sure.


Wilder than Wild Dragoturkey * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté February 03, 2014, 18:53:48 | #59

Quote (FinroyThePuppeteer @ 03 February 2014 18:29) *

Quote (RaVeN-Fifteen @ 03 February 2014 18:25) *
One thing to remember is that alts can be cycled through. And IPs can be changed.


Like mentioned before:
In Lusternia there is a weight to your char that affects voting. It's activity level based so people that log only to vote would be a 1 for example, while a character active X amount of hours every day would be a 10.

Maybe something like this would work with more restrictions. Maybe this would work if we added:
One character per account, per nation. Level & CP point requirements would still remain of course.



Pros:

1. Would stop 30 alts from being used, because they wouldn't just have to log 30 accounts, but keep them logged in for hours a day.

2. Would help the players that play more, because they are the people that would be working with a governor the most.

3. Would create more reasons to spread alts out through different nations. This can help the populations, ecosystems, possibly markets, and other nation's politics.


Cons:

1. People not able to play a certain amount of time would complain, not having a large enough voice..
(although this is just another reason to benefit the players that are online more, because they are dealing with a possible troll governor more.)

2.Would still give multi-boxers an edge, but at least less of an edge since everyone would be under the activity rule, and not just the one per acct rule.
This actually made me think of other proposition - to raise the cp needed for voting. Then alt voting will be harder. People wouldn't bother to gather cp on so many alts, I'm almost sure.
I suppose CP could be raised, but people would still save up and alt-vote. I don't think that would help at all. If anything, that would just push new players away from politics.

EDIT: If the minimum was raised to say 1000, then that's 10 times as much CP. That means it will take 10 times as long to kick someone out of government, and 10 times as long to kick the alt-votre out... etc.


This post has been edited by RaVeN-Fifteen - February 03, 2014, 19:03:11.
Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-08-28
posté February 03, 2014, 20:03:14 | #60

Quote (RaVeN-Fifteen @ 03 February 2014 18:53) *

Quote (FinroyThePuppeteer @ 03 February 2014 18:29) *

Quote (RaVeN-Fifteen @ 03 February 2014 18:25) *
One thing to remember is that alts can be cycled through. And IPs can be changed.


Like mentioned before:
In Lusternia there is a weight to your char that affects voting. It's activity level based so people that log only to vote would be a 1 for example, while a character active X amount of hours every day would be a 10.

Maybe something like this would work with more restrictions. Maybe this would work if we added:
One character per account, per nation. Level & CP point requirements would still remain of course.



Pros:

1. Would stop 30 alts from being used, because they wouldn't just have to log 30 accounts, but keep them logged in for hours a day.


This actually made me think of other proposition - to raise the cp needed for voting. Then alt voting will be harder. People wouldn't bother to gather cp on so many alts, I'm almost sure.
I suppose CP could be raised, but people would still save up and alt-vote. I don't think that would help at all. If anything, that would just push new players away from politics.

EDIT: If the minimum was raised to say 1000, then that's 10 times as much CP. That means it will take 10 times as long to kick someone out of government, and 10 times as long to kick the alt-votre out... etc.

You both forget something.

@Raven: You forget that some people log in all their account everyday, so getting a 10 wouldn't be diffucult for them for all their accounts. I for one know a few people who log in at least 6 accounts a day and do dungeon runs all day long. Those people like to play alone with their multi accounts.
So keeping those accounts logged in for hours a day is not that difficult for those people, that's the reason why they have so many accounts and have no problem to manage them in the first place.

@Finroy: Like I said to Raven, getting that much of cp is not that difficult for multi accounters because they keep all their accounts logged hours and hours everyday. Besides, most people (including me) have more than 1000 cp already, and most people even more. So I still don't think this would help at all.


----- I don't think changing your IP is that easy, and not everybody can do so. And if I am not mistaken, you can only change a few numbers of your IP adress, not all numbers. -----



(PS: I do think that this IP adress tracking system is the best solution so far)

Just my 2 cents.


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