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Captain Chafer's Panty Party has always been quite a curious event. Founded in honour of the well-...

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Ok, i'm reaching my limit with Ankama... (12 AP nerf)
Ambitious Crackapult * Member Since 2011-12-01
posté June 18, 2014, 00:08:28 | #21
Those two low level Epic items sound nice [Dy7].

Will you be adding anything else to reach the 12ap build without a relic (not 11ap)? As we won't be able to wear two Epics or an Epic with a Sat ring any longer.


- Kat


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2014-03-15
posté June 18, 2014, 00:08:41 | #22
Will you also release low cost MP items? 10 AP 7 MP was also a very nice build that I believe is now prohibitively tedious to obtain.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-10-12
posté June 18, 2014, 00:39:05 | #23

Quote (kurokat @ 18 June 2014 00:08) *
Those two low level Epic items sound nice [Dy7].

Will you be adding anything else to reach the 12ap build without a relic (not 11ap)? As we won't be able to wear two Epics or an Epic with a Sat ring any longer.


- Kat
The better question is - will there be anything else to reach 12 ap without a relic for the common player?


Short Strich * Member Since 2014-04-21
posté June 18, 2014, 01:05:29 | #24
sure.. easier than usual epic items. Maybe like turning in a quest for 100 Royal Jellies.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-12-14
posté June 18, 2014, 02:54:41 | #25

Quote (WwhitekrowW @ 18 June 2014 00:39) *

Quote (kurokat @ 18 June 2014 00:08) *
Those two low level Epic items sound nice [Dy7].

Will you be adding anything else to reach the 12ap build without a relic (not 11ap)? As we won't be able to wear two Epics or an Epic with a Sat ring any longer.


- Kat
The better question is - will there be anything else to reach 12 ap without a relic for the common player?

The short answer is no, unless said item incurred some serious penalties to the player. Otherwise it disrupts the balance of achieving 12 AP and being able to use the non-exotic AP items Epic and Relic items.

The Satisfaction Ring is counterbalanced by the fact that -100 HP is easily mitigated by some of the non-exotic Relic pieces and the -MP is off-set by the inevitable release of +2 MP gear. What's 30% damage on a ring to a difference of 80% damage on a non-exo Relic? Or other miscellaneous stats.

• Mango


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2014-03-15
posté June 18, 2014, 03:08:10 | #26

Quote (Kokonaut @ 18 June 2014 02:54) *
inevitable release of +2 MP gear
wwwwwwwwwwwwhat?


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-10-12
posté June 18, 2014, 03:15:46 | #27

Quote (Kokonaut @ 18 June 2014 02:54) *

Quote (WwhitekrowW @ 18 June 2014 00:39) *

Quote (kurokat @ 18 June 2014 00:08) *
Those two low level Epic items sound nice [Dy7].

Will you be adding anything else to reach the 12ap build without a relic (not 11ap)? As we won't be able to wear two Epics or an Epic with a Sat ring any longer.


- Kat
The better question is - will there be anything else to reach 12 ap without a relic for the common player?

The short answer is no, unless said item incurred some serious penalties to the player. Otherwise it disrupts the balance of achieving 12 AP and being able to use the non-exotic AP items Epic and Relic items.

The Satisfaction Ring is counterbalanced by the fact that -100 HP is easily mitigated by some of the non-exotic Relic pieces and the -MP is off-set by the inevitable release of +2 MP gear. What's 30% damage on a ring to a difference of 80% damage on a non-exo Relic? Or other miscellaneous stats.

• Mango
So the common player is never allowed to have more than 10 ap for the sole reason that it disrupts the hard core players build?


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté June 18, 2014, 03:18:08 | #28
I wouldn't mind being a bit more catered to hardcore players if it wasn't so damn unrewarding.


Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-01-30
posté June 18, 2014, 03:43:54 | #29
This thread makes me wonder how many people and I played the whole first year of Wakfu with 10AP and 6AP and how people was able to make a good build with that limitation.

Wait, I remember now, we just enjoyed the game and deal with it!

If you look at lv40-80 gear range you can already see the foreshadowing. One can get early AP at the cost of a good amount of other support stats and sometimes main stats (AP, MP, Range). Another important thing to note is that these early-AP equipment have all been pretty darn hard to get at their level, too.

Now let's see how that is applicable to our current end-game players Any AP beyond 10 is now an "early" AP and people will have to suffer some trade-off for it. Normal player or not. >10AP builds now have to deal with having other stats lowered. And regarding the complaint those exotic AP items are also pretty darn hard to get, if you say you can never get those items, let me ask you, how long will it take you to get an level 60 items set that gives exotic AP/MP, when you are, let's just say, level 100?

Also, let's all remember the eventual level cap of the game is 200, and 12AP 7MP cap will stays even at that point (or at least that is the plan). At level 1 we have 6AP and 3MP. Now we are at level cap of 150 and it's the norm to have 10AP 6MP, and shifting to 11AP/6MP or 10MP/7MP. Sounds about right to me.


This post has been edited by Kouromaro - June 18, 2014, 03:45:14.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté June 18, 2014, 04:55:08 | #30

Quote (Kouromaro @ 18 June 2014 03:43) *
This thread makes me wonder how many people and I played the whole first year of Wakfu with 10AP and 6AP and how people was able to make a good build with that limitation.

Wait, I remember now, we just enjoyed the game and deal with it!

If you look at lv40-80 gear range you can already see the foreshadowing. One can get early AP at the cost of a good amount of other support stats and sometimes main stats (AP, MP, Range). Another important thing to note is that these early-AP equipment have all been pretty darn hard to get at their level, too.

Now let's see how that is applicable to our current end-game players Any AP beyond 10 is now an "early" AP and people will have to suffer some trade-off for it. Normal player or not. >10AP builds now have to deal with having other stats lowered. And regarding the complaint those exotic AP items are also pretty darn hard to get, if you say you can never get those items, let me ask you, how long will it take you to get an level 60 items set that gives exotic AP/MP, when you are, let's just say, level 100?

Also, let's all remember the eventual level cap of the game is 200, and 12AP 7MP cap will stays even at that point (or at least that is the plan). At level 1 we have 6AP and 3MP. Now we are at level cap of 150 and it's the norm to have 10AP 6MP, and shifting to 11AP/6MP or 10MP/7MP. Sounds about right to me.

Get ready for more nerfs down the road before they even add stuff then because they aren't good at planning ahead.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2014-03-15
posté June 18, 2014, 05:25:12 | #31

Quote (Kouromaro @ 18 June 2014 03:43) *
This thread makes me wonder how many people and I played the whole first year of Wakfu with 10AP and 6AP and how people was able to make a good build with that limitation.
It's not about not being able to make "a good build". It's about not having any build freedom. Yes, the standard cookie-cutter builds are good, in that they are effective, but they aren't fun for everyone. I don't want that build. It isn't fun to me. It's not how I want to play. I had a build that I found fun, and now it's gone. Fun is gone. That is the problem.


Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-01-30
posté June 18, 2014, 06:34:04 | #32

Quote (noknives @ 18 June 2014 05:25) *
It's not about not being able to make "a good build". It's about not having any build freedom. Yes, the standard cookie-cutter builds are good, in that they are effective, but they aren't fun for everyone. I don't want that build. It isn't fun to me. It's not how I want to play. I had a build that I found fun, and now it's gone. Fun is gone. That is the problem.
My main is was 10AP/7MP/+3Range Fire-Water enu. Back when level cap was 100 I still stated 1 Range while few did. Yesterday before update I still stated 2MP while few did. You tell me about unorthodox builds. You tell me about one's favorite build and one's favorite freedom are being taken away. When I used the word "good," I meant something that the player can enjoy.

Like I already said

Quote (Kouromaro @ 18 June 2014 03:43) *
just enjoyed the game and deal with it!
If your old fun is gone, find another. For me, I simply move back to 6MP.

Honestly, dealing with mechanic change could also be fun. I do realize it's a really big blow in the face to a good number of people. But hey, gotta find fun when you are playing a game.

Off topic, why on earth does this forums not allow bold and italic at the same time...

By the way, if your old fun has to do with 12AP, may be you should not bash cookie-cutter builds after all. That reeks cookies smell.


This post has been edited by Kouromaro - June 18, 2014, 07:40:32.
Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-12-14
posté June 18, 2014, 06:44:33 | #33

Quote (WwhitekrowW @ 18 June 2014 03:15) *

Quote (Kokonaut @ 18 June 2014 02:54) *

Quote (WwhitekrowW @ 18 June 2014 00:39) *

Quote (kurokat @ 18 June 2014 00:08) *
Those two low level Epic items sound nice [Dy7].

Will you be adding anything else to reach the 12ap build without a relic (not 11ap)? As we won't be able to wear two Epics or an Epic with a Sat ring any longer.


- Kat
The better question is - will there be anything else to reach 12 ap without a relic for the common player?

The short answer is no, unless said item incurred some serious penalties to the player. Otherwise it disrupts the balance of achieving 12 AP and being able to use the non-exotic AP items Epic and Relic items.

The Satisfaction Ring is counterbalanced by the fact that -100 HP is easily mitigated by some of the non-exotic Relic pieces and the -MP is off-set by the inevitable release of +2 MP gear. What's 30% damage on a ring to a difference of 80% damage on a non-exo Relic? Or other miscellaneous stats.

• Mango
So the common player is never allowed to have more than 10 ap for the sole reason that it disrupts the hard core players build?

Basically yes. Of the two situations, the one that gives the common player more freedom also gives the endgame min/max player more power. Too much for what the new item balance ideals allows for.

• Mango


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-10-12
posté June 18, 2014, 08:07:58 | #34

Quote (Kokonaut @ 18 June 2014 06:44) *

Quote (WwhitekrowW @ 18 June 2014 03:15) *

Quote (Kokonaut @ 18 June 2014 02:54) *

Quote (WwhitekrowW @ 18 June 2014 00:39) *

Quote (kurokat @ 18 June 2014 00:08) *
Those two low level Epic items sound nice [Dy7].

Will you be adding anything else to reach the 12ap build without a relic (not 11ap)? As we won't be able to wear two Epics or an Epic with a Sat ring any longer.


- Kat
The better question is - will there be anything else to reach 12 ap without a relic for the common player?

The short answer is no, unless said item incurred some serious penalties to the player. Otherwise it disrupts the balance of achieving 12 AP and being able to use the non-exotic AP items Epic and Relic items.

The Satisfaction Ring is counterbalanced by the fact that -100 HP is easily mitigated by some of the non-exotic Relic pieces and the -MP is off-set by the inevitable release of +2 MP gear. What's 30% damage on a ring to a difference of 80% damage on a non-exo Relic? Or other miscellaneous stats.

• Mango
So the common player is never allowed to have more than 10 ap for the sole reason that it disrupts the hard core players build?

Basically yes. Of the two situations, the one that gives the common player more freedom also gives the endgame min/max player more power. Too much for what the new item balance ideals allows for.

• Mango
The majority of players aren't HC players. The majority of players do not own relics nor will ever own relics. The majority of players will never have more than 10 ap. I don't think AP should be so limiting.

Things they could easily do is create more conditional gear. AP giving HC players too much damage or options? Make it so that the more AP a person has the damage % this certain piece gives. So if they use it and get 10 ap they receive 30% damage from it, if they use it to get 11 ap they receive 20% damage from it... et cetera et cetera. Its not hard to think of ideas to make said things. It would allow players to mess around and experiment and... have fun?!

In the first 30 lvls of the game, most people get 2 ap. The next 30 lvls they can easily gain 2 more ap. So around lvl 60, one basically runs around with their end game build already. 4 ap in the first 60 lvls... and no more ap for the next 90?

Personally I'm content w/ my damage % right now - I'm just bored to death of the same builds again and again. I loved my 11 ap cra back in the day... But sat ring was murder. 11 ap eni would be so much more useful combo wise. There are so many options when you can have just 1 more ap... but they took that away...

I'm a big proponent of bringing AP to the common player!


Scary Polter * Member Since 2011-01-30
posté June 18, 2014, 08:20:09 | #35
@WhiteKrow

To be honest with you, getting Gelano should not be extremely hard or anything if you love your sat ring that much.

I think the reason you think getting the AP at earlier levels were so easy is simply because you have forgotten what it's like to be low-leveled. I saw the Close Beta tag. Surely you remember once knew how hard it was getting the set together for AP, then hunt down those AP from mythical necklaces? Then comes the trade off of whether getting AP next or MP next. All sort of things.

The game is kinda still the same, just the item names' color changed is all.


This post has been edited by Kouromaro - June 18, 2014, 08:22:29.
Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-10-12
posté June 18, 2014, 08:43:28 | #36
@Kouromaro - I am at 24 gelano frags right now. I dropped all but 2-3 of them through spamming gelano dungeon and mobs. I was spending 4-6 hours at a time at jellies usually dropping nothing. It took about 3 months to drop that many. 9 more months... its not hard per se - but 9 months of grinding 4-6 hours a day at jellies?

I remember getting earlier sets. First "full" gobbal set was lvl 30. I dropped my own golden scara set by 50. Dropped my own lunar set around 70. Eventually made my own moowolf set. I remember dropping my first dragolyre and thought it was the greatest thing ever - next to the goultard, of course.

There is a huge grind now - but it was different then back then. This grind seems borderline worthless... I loved working for the next ap. Now i'm working for - the next 1% damage buff? I love this game - however I really think they need to look into adding more AP options. Shake things up a bit


Speechless Crobak * Member Since 2009-10-10
posté June 18, 2014, 08:56:03 | #37
Good now cap MP at 6 like the smart devs on Dofus did.


Happy Miliboowolf * Member Since 2011-06-29
posté June 18, 2014, 09:26:11 | #38

Quote
I'm a big proponent of bringing AP to the common player!

I think you should be a big proponent of just making things not so ridiculously difficult to acquire, though. I think they're set on: You need a relic *or* an epic to get 11 AP, and you need both to get to 12 AP.

You know what? Fine. It's retconning three items that have been in the game for MONTHS now, but you know what, fine. But if you're gonna be that restrictive with how people progess past 10 AP, how about they take the fucking time to make it possible for more than the top 2% of people to do it?

Make Epics easier to acquire. x10 the drop rate on relic frags and drop PP locks for all of them. Make these things truly obtainable for people that are max level. Not just people that are max level, have an entire group that will go with them to farm 1 piece of equipment using 6 well-geared characters spending 4+ hours a night for 3+ months just for One. Fucking. Relic.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-12-12
posté June 18, 2014, 10:15:00 | #39
Please remove the PP lock from those fragments, so people can farm them alone

It drive me crazy that nobody wanna help me to farm those fragments


This post has been edited by Boorin - June 18, 2014, 10:39:35.
Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2012-11-11
posté June 18, 2014, 10:16:35 | #40

Quote (Taku- @ 18 June 2014 09:26) *

Quote
I'm a big proponent of bringing AP to the common player!

I think you should be a big proponent of just making things not so ridiculously difficult to acquire, though. I think they're set on: You need a relic *or* an epic to get 11 AP, and you need both to get to 12 AP.

You know what? Fine. It's retconning three items that have been in the game for MONTHS now, but you know what, fine. But if you're gonna be that restrictive with how people progess past 10 AP, how about they take the fucking time to make it possible for more than the top 2% of people to do it?

Make Epics easier to acquire. x10 the drop rate on relic frags and drop PP locks for all of them. Make these things truly obtainable for people that are max level. Not just people that are max level, have an entire group that will go with them to farm 1 piece of equipment using 6 well-geared characters spending 4+ hours a night for 3+ months just for One. Fucking. Relic.
What you said and the way you said it makes me feel good that someone else sees this for what it is. I am just so incredibly sick of the same people acting like it's no big deal because they can just round up their group of elite buddies and farm what they want whenever they want. There is not enough people playing this game to form PUG's for this, nor is there enough people that are even geared enough to...start getting geared.

I just do not understand why the hell they can't make this game more appealing to the MAJORITY of its player base, not just the top 2% who live in the game. Stop making people "play" this game like it is a second job just to acquire some upgrades to gear. It is an MMO and grinding is a part of it, I get that, but you don't make people grind endless BORING hours for a fraction...of a percent...for a chance...at dropping 1 out of 100 frags...for ONE piece of gear...for ONE character. THAT'S INSANE