Look, you did not give numerical proof for anything, nor did I. I did not see any spreadsheets with damage done for different classes, statistical data on how many groups successfully complete content with or without fecas, or how long it takes for the groups that bring or not the class.
That would be proof.
We dont have any, so our arguments are abstract.
We are having a discussion of concepts and ideas. I am trying to constantly reaffirm that im not super into the endgame and i really cant tell if fecas are OP or not. Im just in the argument to try to understand why you (and many others) seem to think they are, and trying to figure out if its really a problem with the feca class or with other game aspects.
Discussions only exist if there are different views or opinions. You have shown you dont care to hear others opinions, and are willing to call anyone trying to argue differently ignorant selfish or whatever.
I can be wrong or mistaken.
But to help me change my opinion to the better (assuming you are right) you have to be able to actualy argue. If you just say "if you think what you do you are ignorant", well, you are just rude and dont know how to discuss.
Bleh, i give up trying to quote.
Regarding Hearty's longer post,
Look, what makes me say that "maybe fecas are the balanced ones" is that it seems like people want them around. I never see sac tanks or fogger tanks or even sadi tanks. It might be just me and the people i end up playing with, but im afraid that most people who had those classes just gave up tanking with them, and if fecas get nerfed ill have to give up trying to make my feca a tank too. My concern is that what groups want from tanks is a tank+support combination similar to what fecas have, and that the best way to balance things out is to make the support fecas can give be available to other classes. Granting ap, final damage bonuses etc.
I can't see why it is not a valid concern, or why i have to be selfish or whatever else you called me to want to ask if this wouldent be the case.
In your last post, you did actually have a interesting paragraph, the one you listed a number of feca abilities you beleive that (either individually or together) are strong.
I just wanted to remind you that not that many of them are so original to fecas. Like Cra's can steal toooooonnns of MP, and while they deal damage. Last time i checked Iops Stabi was super good, and the whole "double stabi" only seems to be a big deal in SB. For most pve content provoke seems to be "nice" at best.
Classes that can summon things to lean on (like barrel or a barricade) also have a edge against not getting pushed in many fights, even if they are not actualy stabi. And its easy to call a feca's toolkit powerfull by looking at the available spells, since the classes spells are support oriented and almost always have effects on them. But no feca can have everything in their deck, or even leveled, so its not like a feca can do everything in a actual fight.
Its obvious that there are things unique to fecas. Every class does. Noone ever complained that Cras can shoot farther then they can. I just get the impression that fecas are very strong at Steelbeak, and can remove too much resistance, and the community does not realize that its just a -resistance problem and a strength in one particular fight, and think the entire class is unbalanced.
aww i wrote another post by accident, i wanted to edit this one into my other one :/
1. Glyphs, Avalanche and Fecablades are uncomparable to any other class. I would go in to deeper detail but just look up like every single post in this thread from me. It mentions it, or look at last page as it has a more detailed response on it.
2. The one class that has a spell similar to Teleport(Sacrier) doesn't gain back resources for using it, and doesn't fall under an unusual restriction (Only being able to transport one type of unit)
3. 150 resist is 44% more resist than Sacrier may obtain and the same amount that Sadida may obtain after severtal turns of preparation while Feca has it always.
4. No class may buff more than 20% final damage currently, Making Feca the strongest offensive support.
5. PA is the most powerful spell considering it has unlimited potential, which is actually the thing Feca should be known for but isn't any longer.
6. Their buffs are in-proportionate to their only support counter parts (Osa) as we did the Tonic comparsion last page,
Firstly i suggest you look up the definition of proof.
1-Glyphs are a feca class mechanic. That is like complaining no other class can make portals like Elios.
2- Well, last i checked Elios could teleport others, as could Xelors. Gaining resources(?) would be MP? Thats not part of the spell, its a passive. So you kinda have to spend a passive to be able to do that. I dont think its a big deal.
3- And Sacs have 10x more shields then fecas and twice the health. Your point is? Each class has a different way to be durable, im not even sure if fecas have the strongest one. If they do, its not obvious that Sacs shouldent get a bit more hp instead of nerfing feca resists. Its not like fecas dont die in pve.
4-Well, enis can buff 20% in Aoe. And if a feca is actually tanking there are good chances that they wont be in LoS to buff. When i play i buff the first turn and usualy have a hard time buffing allies later. I can glyph because it doesent need LoS, but meteor or volcano are hard to place on allies unless they are CC.
5-Sure PA is great. Personally i think the feca trademark is high resistance, not PA but that is a bit offtopic. Not sure what you are trying to say here, you dont seem to be complaining about this one. You think PA should be the only good thing fecas can do, is that it? Glad you are not the game designer.
6-I didint read the comparision you mentioned, ill have to go back to it and edit the post later. And if only osas and fecas can support (I thought Sadis, Enis, xelors, and tons of other classes could all be built as support), is it just me that thinks that's a problem? Out of like 20 classes why are only osas and fecas considered able to support?
Anyhow, Im just trying to point out what i see as argumentative flaws that make the idea a bit unconvincing. Ill just keep playing and figure out for myself if its OP or not, this doesent seem to be a very productive thread.
This post has been edited by YetAnotherNewbie - January 24, 2017, 16:20:18.