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Madd1's profile
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Member Since : 2012-04-11
1510 Posts (1.23 per day)
Most active in : General Discussion
posté Today - 17:04:59 | #1
We're not the ones posting server-specific political threads in the GD, therefore I would argue that it's not us who think they're more important than the proper forum etiquette.


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #903321  Replies : 17  Views : 203
posté Today - 16:41:01 | #2

Quote (SSBKewkky @ 31 August 2015 16:39) *
I don't care about your elections.


Sincerely,

Nox

PS: Maybe they don't read the politics forum because they don't care about politics? Why force it down their throat? They won't vote if they don't want to.
^--- this.


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #903314  Replies : 17  Views : 203
posté Today - 16:33:38 | #3

Quote (shankissimo @ 31 August 2015 14:56) *

Quote (Xillor-The-Shadow @ 31 August 2015 13:23) *
Maybe we should also make a point to enforce level requirements for PvP ranks just as much as the PvP gear.
Partially agreed, no level 38-59 should be able to go beyond rank 6(example). Above lvl 60, I do not think there should be restrictions.
It makes more sense to me to have level classifications, much like lightweight, welterweight, middleweight and heavyweight we could have 1-50, 51-100, 101-150, 151-200

Though up and down in 25s might make more sense, since that's supposed to be the level restriction on what you can attack.

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #903310  Replies : 9  Views : 280
posté Today - 16:31:41 | #4
Wrong forum, see Remington: Politics.


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #903309  Replies : 17  Views : 203
posté Today - 05:20:22 | #5
The merit economy needs to be fixed first and foremost. The biggest problem with Merit is if you have 1 point of merit you're rich in merit and have everything to lose and limited prospects to gain. Every fight from that point on has a higher risk of costing you something than gaining something for you. That's what made what originally seemed like it would be a fun system that people would willingly engage in into a hunt to find and destroy any and every winged player you can handle taking out. It's also why people started resorting to dirty tactics like alt+f4, alt-bagging, ect.

Every point became precious and people would hold on to those points through any means necessary. The points need to be made much easier to gain and much harder to lose, and there needs to be better incentives for general population to participate other than 'maybe in 5yrs you can get a gearset that's comically OP now, but by the time anyone who wasn't cheating can get it there will be better gear out'.

All in all, PVP is a welcome changed, but the implementation, like many things in this game, was very poorly done.

Prims should replace ecosystems as the source of all nation bonuses in the game. I have no problem with prims limiting fighters to the level of the area level, it would inspire more activity in the lower levels, even if it also meant people would gear low level alt-fighters. I still think any activity in the lower levels is good activity.

As far as 1v1, it should never be incentivized. It will never be balanced, and it is essentially a non-mandatory function of the game. When team based PVP is the incentive and is properly incentivized the PVP experience as a whole will get significantly better, IMHO.

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #903205  Replies : 9  Views : 280
posté Today - 01:31:53 | #6

Quote (Neneko88 @ 31 August 2015 00:52) *
No one's played support/healer classes like pandawa (so much damage) and masqueraider

We actually already had what some of you are proposing (lower damage for a support class). That didn't work for 2 years. If you want to go back to that then ask for it but it won't work.
Panda is only optimized through exclusive decks. I can't make a Panda that's great at healing, tanking and damage at the same time, but I can make a hybrid, It just won't be as effective as specialized decks and definitely won't match specialist classes. I think its one of the most well balanced classes because of this.


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #903159  Replies : 212  Views : 3728
posté Yesterday - 20:13:04 | #7

Quote (Aquallia @ 30 August 2015 00:12) *
My concern is losing the wide variety of things a Sadida can do, or weakening the Sadida itself. Sadidas have a nice set of spells that have neat effects even without involving the dolls.

I use the dolls, just not rely on them. 1 UP and what just 1 UP can summon is enough for me.

I wish the dolls could have smarter A.I.s like;

Greedy - Attack nearest target, focus on damaged targets to finish them off faster.

Inflatable - Focus on healing nearest ally in need, lowest HP gets priority.

Madoll - Stop being so cowardly and random.

I would like the dolls to be helpful and do their intended job, nerfed as needed as long as they are not instantly killed in just 1 hit.
I personally think Sadida's individual power should remain the same or be increased.

I've been thinking about it, and it would be possible to strike a compromise, but honestly, I don't think anything will ever make the hardcore doll spammers happy.

If Doll's had a mechanic similar to lone Sadida, where the less dolls you chose to use the stronger they were, and the more dolls you chose to use the weaker they were.

So for example UP + 2 could be maybe 150% of current doll power, and 10+doll could be at 30-50% of their current power.

This would also allow you to fairly add more dolls (Air damage please) to the mix, as well as allow Sadida's personal power to expand.

I'll keep my eyes open for the revamp thread, when it comes up.

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #903074  Replies : 212  Views : 3728
posté Yesterday - 00:51:19 | #8
Neko, you are absolutely rude and out of line 100% of the time. Are you a Nox player? We can settle this like players, I'm truthfully absolutely sick of you and your bad attitude.

Find me in game or do not ever address me directly. I don't care if you respond to what I say but do not ever directly address me, I'm tired of your baseless insults and poor attitude.

To everyone else, I'm willing to continue civilized discussion.
- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902871  Replies : 212  Views : 3728
posté August 29, 2015, 23:36:40 | #9

Quote (Neneko88 @ 29 August 2015 23:20) *
sadida is one of the funnest solot classes

the problem here is that you want to change them to your liking, the time for this is over o.o they had a feedback time.

do you really want to waste Azael's time doing a sadida/eni revamp?
you even said it that you play many classes, why not use those other classes. Not all classes can be what you want them to be

did you ever think about those that enjoy the new sadia? (this is the problem, you think only about yourself). what about all the servers that gave feedback? it's not just you
What about the entire player-base of the game? You're arguing that I'm close-minded because I want to make something that fits in with and is tolerable for the vast majority of the game's players. Realistically, I've seen maybe 4-5 people who are happy with the current state of the class, and that doesn't even include some of the classes most vocal advocates.

The class is a bear to play with and against, I've said multiple times that I am sure that an extremely slow and meticulous play style fits a small number of people, but it's not very fun for everyone else and you can find it in other classes if you choose to play them that way (Hell you could even find it in Sadida if you took a smaller max doll route). You can read through the posts again for yourself, it's not just me. When my guild mate originally told me he posted this thread, I wanted nothing to do with it.

I already had to argue with you guys for months and months, do you think I enjoy it? I know how you respond to people and I know that arguing with you equates to arguing with a brick wall. It's a huge part of why I let Sadida go, a class in a videogame wasn't worth it to me. However, the broken state of the class (which I did not have the foresight to predict) and the willingness of the general population to understand and respect that there is an issue has brought me back out from the woodwork, to try and fix what I should have been more vocal about in the past.

I've approached this class with a very broad understanding of the game's function for many of the game's classes all the way into final content, and your desired Sadida, (emphasis on your because I've yet to really see someone else so willing to fight for it to stay exactly the way it is right now) doesn't fit well and could be addressed with fairly straight forward tweaks.

As a final point, I'd like to remind you that we were told Spell Decks were _NOT_ revamps, and Sadida and Eni are still in the air for revamps.

Do not get attached to this iteration of Sadida Neko, or you'll just be raging for another two years.

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902853  Replies : 212  Views : 3728
posté August 29, 2015, 22:28:01 | #10

Quote (SupersunZeratul @ 29 August 2015 20:09) *

Quote (Madd1 @ 28 August 2015 09:59) *
Sadida has the possibility to deal 991 base damage of which 681 is dealt at +90% final damage and -100% resist to a single target. No, this is not reasonably achievable, but the fact that it IS achievable is a problem. It is a huge balance problem, because any situation which allows things like this to be achieved is a problem.

If we are talking about super impractical level 200 clown fiesta land that's actually not that much. Ecaflip can do just over 2,000 base damage (applied increase damage bonuses directly to base damage) with +40% Final Damage and +420% Damage.

Is the fact that the potential for such high damage exists a problem?

And to be honest if we are talking about impractical voltron strategies I can think of some nutty stuff that Osa can do for a team that will amount to more than just 1,000 base damage.

Super impractical training room numbers really don't mean much if they aren't realistically achievable, potential or not, and if a situation exists where you can achieve those numbers...it's probably either outdated content or poorly balanced content.

PvP, shields just need to be nerfed. For every argument that applies of why they added healing resistance now applies to armor. It's sad to say but it might be time they added shield resistance since they went off the deep end and made shields more effective at protecting your HP than healing. (Extra temporary HP is pretty much by definition better than healing since they actually increase your maximum HP and you can't overheal. Temporary HP numbers should pretty much always be lower than healing values which they aren't :/ )
All damage values were based on level 175. There's no point in calculating against a level that is not yet achievable.

However, what you're saying is true, Sadida max possible potential is not reliable in most fights, but it is something that can be reliably achieved with enough time under the right circumstances. Yes, you can kill dolls, but every AP spent killing a doll is an AP not spent fighting the Sadida. Meaning that those dolls now count as additional damage redirection.

You bring up the point that most fights end in three turns. I'm well aware of this and that's why I'm making the point that Sadida needs more power quickly, and less maximum power. Maximum Sadida power is a problem. Sadida's complete lack of power in short fights is a problem. Even the two most vocal Sadidas both openly state that Sadida is awful and has terrible output in short fights.

I've tried very hard to come up with logical theories to solve both of these problems at once. You can call it a nerf, but it's actually only a nerf to the very small % of players that are abusing the current power imbalance, and it would be a huge buff to the 90% of Sadida players who don't ever exploit mechanics that can be used to break the game.

So to give you a quick history on me, since this game has been out I've raised multiple classes to level cap through various stages of the game. Xelor 105-175 (cap), Cra 110 (cap), Feca 110 (cap), Eni 140 (cap), Panda 125 (cap), Enu 125 (cap), Osa 110 (cap), Rogue 140 (cap) 160 (cap) 169 (pre god-mode rogue), Sadida 168 (abandoned due to spell decks), Panda 162, Mask 158, Sram 139, Iop 105, Emo 98.

I've played a lot of characters and a lot of classes, I often like to get on an alt and grind outside mobs or just fight things on my own, even though I've run a 6box in my time I honestly often like to just play one character as I find it much less daunting and it makes me feel like quitting the game a lot less. The two worst solo classes to play by far for me are Feca and Sadida. With Sadida being the hands down worst in my humble opinion. The power scale is so slow and so easily interrupted that you will never see more than let's say 25-30% potential in normal fights. It's grueling and not fun. I think this needs to be addressed along with the power scale being way out of wack in optimal situations.

Sadida should feel like a character that can be played alone or in groups without making everyone (including you) want to claw out your eyeballs.

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902845  Replies : 212  Views : 3728
posté August 29, 2015, 06:53:28 | #11
Neko, I can't continue this, obviously we're never going to agree, you will make assumptions about what I write instead of actually paying attention to the context. I will attempt to refute your rebuttals with logic and you will continue to ignore them ~_~

I want a better Sadida, and I've included tons of options that are not 'like an osa' for the class. It's odd to me that when I comment on the state of Osas people say 'sounds too much like Sadida'! Now comments on Sadida 'sound too much like Osa'? Gonna have to agree to disagree.


Quote (Aquallia @ 29 August 2015 05:19) *
You mean to speed up how fast it reaches full power, but lowering it's maximum power?

This could work, but what if someone wants to solo with the class, how would that help?

I think Sadida has to be good at everything it does, but not as powerful as the primary class for doing that.

Sadida I think has potential to be kept as 2nd best healer after Eni, different but not too much weaker summoner than Osa (more summons, but summons not as strong), a decent damage dealer (mixing it up with direct and indirect damage while also being able to lower enemy resistance), other utilities like giving armor and some map manipulation to round it out with going a little of everything. This is how I'd like to make Sadida able to do a bit of everything and compensate for weaknesses by having more options to work with, work well alone or in group, and be the whatever you need it to be class I feel it has great potential at being.

I feel trying to weaken it too much will just make it no fun to play.


The short answer to your question is yes. Part of my proposal is to strengthen the Sadida as an individual character further, either through passive options (as it stands there's only a couple of actual Sadida passives you can even use without dolls), more flexible spell cast ranges and faster ramp to maximum sadida individual power/defense from dolls. Additionally, I think the class when it chooses to use dolls should be stronger than solo options. It just makes more sense for a 'summoner', however using summons doesn't need to make Sadida ridiculously stronger, it can be a much more subtle change in power. It's always gonna be this way, there are tons of classes you can play that don't summon, but the devs have to recognize there are some instances that summons are a hindrance (or useless) like Sram boss phase 2, where they will die instantly on their turn or some areas of certain dungeons. I'd also like to see more poisons, it was a very logical power for the Sadida to have.

My second major point is that the power of dolls should be achieved more quickly, and the maximum potential power of dolls should be reduced. Dolls, while being attackable shouldn't feel like they have to be a primary target, or a primary defensive point. Kiku brings this up a lot and it's a very valid point in PVP and PVM. Your UP is very important since it's on such a long cooldown and is the source of all other dolls. This also makes it the 'Samson's hair' of Sadida. If you cut it off the character is crippled, making it's it the focal point of many fights. I think this is a mistake. The Sadida is the star of it's own show, it should never take a back seat to it's own summons.

This can be achieved through more quickly summoned smaller contingent of stronger dolls, or much weaker but much more quickly summoned hordes of dolls that can be used now. I don't really care, but I favor smaller groups significantly because realistically dolls are a major hindrance to gameplay for 99% of the players of this game. If you were to do a survey of every Wakfu player asking "How many of you like playing with a Sadida who has 10 dolls out?" I'm willing to wager my whole gearset, characters and accounts that 99/100 would say 'No'.

It's a fair way to balance the overall power and the lack of early power that makes Sadida very difficult to play alone,
- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902687  Replies : 212  Views : 3728
posté August 29, 2015, 04:18:35 | #12

Quote (Neneko88 @ 29 August 2015 02:43) *
Statistical data is what made Grou make the changes he made to sadida in his revamp
Let's go back to that right?

Keep thinking wakfu is so simple that "data" is what matters and not situations. Earthquake situations won't always be there how you tell people it is (not pvp).

Everybody is not making a sadida,
Signed
What made Grou's iteration hard to use was expensive dolls and poor base damage values on the Sadida itself. If you could summon any doll you wanted for 2AP/each gated to maybe 2-3/turn Grou's iteration would have still had poor base damage values, but would have been much more usable in the grand scale. Even that iteration of Sadida had good damage potential at max dolls, I'd argue that it was better balanced at max dolls which made the class overall much more poorly balanced until you had max dolls. Hence why it felt utterly weak for most fights.

Alternatively, if the costs were the same and the dolls themselves were much more powerful, that would have also made it much better.

I never said that the issues that effect Sadida now didn't exist before. The difference is that the individual Sadida is much better balanced which now makes the Sadida+dolls exceptionally strong, but the Sadida alone remains not strong enough. The best solution I can see is to speed up the scaling from no power to full power and to tone down the full power of the class, this allows it to be much more useful in all instances, and much less out of proportion in the few instances that it's currently broken in.

I may sound like a broken record, but I really haven't seen you argue anything that doesn't actually work in favor of my point.

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902661  Replies : 212  Views : 3728
posté August 29, 2015, 01:54:18 | #13

Quote (blazakkhakabow @ 28 August 2015 12:46) *
Madd, how would damage values change if you changes Poisoned Wind to almost-peak damage of Earthquake(dollies around target) in the top damage rotation?


Sorry, I forgot to answer this. It's a bit hard since to use EQ effectively you'd need 13 AP, so the damage values will be higher no matter what, but it goes from 22hp to 46hp/doll in range. So that can be up to 46x11, meaning earthquake alone has the potential to deal 506 damage. I purposely avoided Earthquake because it makes calculations real complicated and Sadida is already very broken without even adding it to the equation.

In a larger scale fight, Earthquake alone could easily hit all targets multiple times each meaning you could deal damage into the neighborhood of 3542 with just Earthquake. Anytime you use Earthquake damage though, it just gets really complicated. We don't really need it to prove that sadida damage is out of proportion.


Quote (Neneko88 @ 29 August 2015 00:17) *
That's your personal want which Dy7 ignored because that's not what he wants the class to be.
He tried weak dolls in beta and they were hitting for 80-150 damage (not worth summoning at this point) and in one of the beta updates he made them die really fast (not worth bothering with dolls).

You're offending the devs, they spents many months getting feedback, if they liked ours best then oh well.

I suggest you suggest pvp system changes like lower shield numbers for all shields in every class (feca is also a big problem in pvp).

Your suggestion doesn't show any balance, nerf dolls by 30-40% and to balance that we can summon 1 ultra powerful every turn? but we're limited to 4 dolls total?
I just ran the new moon island dungeon, people with steel beak equips and none of them were talking about how strong sadida is (all fights took10+ turns). My equips are pretty good btw.

Start a new pvp topic,
Signed


I don't see how constructive criticism is 'offending the devs', if you read my posts, I actually made a point to commend Dy7 on listening to the feedback and responding to it so well, I actually blame the state of the class much more highly on the poor feedback he tried to work with. Realistically, I just didn't have the time I'd hoped to be as vocal in feedback as I'd have liked, that doesn't invalidate my arguments or the raw data that backs them up. Additionally, it's impossible for a small pool of people to see just how far a class can go. I knew Sadida was broken before release, but I don't think I realized quite how broken it was.

Secondly, you are merging two separate suggestions into one.

IDEA #1: 30-40% power reduction with a faster 3-4 turn ramp up is for your 10+ doll strategy. This allows Sadida to be useful in shorter fights, but not to the point of being absurdly broken. Dy7 did play with weaker dolls and less durable dolls, but he also did this with the limitation of very long cast limits to get to full potential, you'll find that if there are much shorter cast limits (meaning dolls come out forever) that the lowered damage is actually quite fair.

IDEA #2: My idea of limiting dolls to 4-6 comes with a much smaller reduction in power AND comes with the addition of old dolls that Sadida has lost, such as -AP and the dolls that can potentially cast air spells (which was a huge tactical benefit to the class, although I think it would need to be weakened to be balanced). I also advocated for removal of cast restrictions (such as 80% of usable spells being in line cast)

These ideas are independent options of each other, I never meant for them to be implemented together.

Finally, please stop addressing me as if I care about 1v1 PVP. I probably am one of the only people who has a possible answer to doll-spam Sadida, but I don't care. I don't really PVP anymore as the current system is garbage, and investing in it is not something I have interest in. I have given you not only the instances in which, but the statistical data to prove that the class exists beyond the normal parameters of the game. I've made very compelling arguments and giving compromises on suggestions, and your only retort is to instantly refute anything I say, followed by either a passive-aggressive attack on me, or just telling me to do something else, or I'm offending someone else.

You are not moving your point forward, nor are you in any way helping your class, because as I have already told you. Sadida will get nerfed, regardless of what you or I say, the class will get nerfed. It's broken and it's only a matter of time before the broken mechanics get put on the chopping block. If I were you, I'd be investing all of my time into compromises and ideas that benefit the class in the long term, instead of selfishly holding on to what you like now. Otherwise you run the risk of having the class completely destroyed as nerfs to how it plays now will undoubtedly make the class worse in short-fights which will be a huge hindrance to any Sadida player. This, however, is your own choice. I can't tell you what to do or how to do it. The fact that this thread has hit seven pages and has a large following with statistical data backing the side that Sadida is out of balance should be proof enough that the days of this Sadida are numbered. The choice is yours.

Peace,
- Madd


This post has been edited by Madd1 - August 29, 2015, 01:57:33.
Reason for edit : Clarification
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902631  Replies : 212  Views : 3728
posté August 28, 2015, 23:49:05 | #14

Quote (Neneko88 @ 28 August 2015 18:13) *
Madd

Stop wasting people's time (specially Dy7's)
I will quote something that everyone that's followed the class has always known (you're new to the class, a lot of us have played this class since the beginning). The build up of dolls is what makes them different from osa. Not this idea that they should be like a 100% support class like Feca (this is not sadida, sadida is also damage and healing). In the future I will reply to you with the same quote below



Quote (Neneko88 @ 26 August 2015 22:56) *
Go play another class, this ramp up is exactly what Dofus design for the sadida is.

Your statement that "if fights are long sadida is the best" doesn't help you, that's how it's supposed to be. Just like how some classes like iop/rogue/eca are the best in short fights.

Do you know what balance is? short and long balance
Then it should be a faster ramp up (3-5 turns) with a lower and more reasonable max potential. 9 turns for max potential that breaks the game is a problem all the way around. You're missing the most basic point I'm making. Sadida fails to live up to other classes for at least the first 3 turns of the game (probably more like 5), feeling significantly weaker at anything other than being support btch. Yet if allowed to reach maximum potential at turn 9, the class is far beyond what should be allowed to functionally exist in the game.

There are other classes in Wakfu that take time to ramp up to max potential, the difference is they have a better startup and a reasonable final potential.

Examples (Yes, these are absolutely rough estimates of power, if I have to dig up #s I will):

Iop, 90% potential @ turn 1, max potential on turn 2. This is a fast class.
Xelor, 80% @ turn 1, Max potential on turn 3-4.
Mask, 60% @ turn 1, Max Potential on turn 3-4? I'm not 100% on this.
Sadida, 20% @ turn 1, Max potential on turn 9.

Sadida just feels like it's too weak on turn one and too damn strong if allowed to run wild. I've outlined extremely well why this is. I can go into further detail if you don't understand that. It's pretty simple to understand how the game works when you play it enough, and it's pretty obvious that Sadida exists outside of what should work in the game. You can argue with me all day, but I'm providing ideas that will stabilize Sadida power, and provide more power throughout the entire fight. Not just on turn 9-45 of a 50 turn fall asleep grind fight.

Here's an example of a viable change, if you're determined to hang on to mass dolls:

Turn one, summon weaker UP, cooldown reduced to 1/turn UP still summons max 2 dolls, dolls have 30-40% current base damage, identical durability for all dolls. Sadida personal bonus caps at doll 4 instead of doll 10, allowing Sadida to have a strong in-fight presence WITHOUT requiring 10 dolls. Allows for max potential to be reached on turn 4 with most potential reached at turn 3. Sadida still feels weak on turn one, but this is necessary for a playstyle that ramps up. Maybe there could be a long cooldown spell that allows you to summon a second UP to up turn one efficiency. I'd also like to see some of the more useful utility dolls (like the old air dolls) brought back. Maybe they can have long cooldowns off the UP cast or something.

The problem with this which is why I advocate for lower doll counts is it still requires you to get out 10+ dolls to maximize output and there are maybe 3-4 situations in the entire game where you'd ever want to do this. It's not a useful mechanic, and I'm confused as to why players are so attached to it. Even if doll counts were brought down to 4-6, max 2 UP (and again, we brought back some of the other old dolls) and dolls were given a smaller power reduction, but much faster and easier to bring out, with the sadida itself getting more flexible spell usage (less line restrictions ect), I think that would be a fair compromise.

The system as it is clearly is broken, and doesn't really work well for anyone, except the people who exploit it's very limited use potential.

Peace,
- Madd


Quote (StraikaGuettao @ 28 August 2015 22:24) *
Not agree. As Xelor i can beat every Sadi (Except Hardcor) and i always see, osas and rogues raping Sadis...

The problem is one device behind the keyboard.
Are you using the build that will obviously gimp Sadidas? I assume as an endgame Xelor you've recognized there's a very simple build that will nearly cripple Sadida users for a majority of fights and probably has it's own balance problems for Xelor... We can go into that next.

Regardless, there's an issue at max potential. So unless all Sadida's in your example are at least equally geared to Hardcor and capable of playing mostly as well it's not a logical example.

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902583  Replies : 212  Views : 3728
posté August 28, 2015, 10:03:42 | #15
Frankly, I always thought Sabi was the best all the way back to the SE days when everyone in the NA community was riding her just for being a representative of SE. Just of the fuming rage everyone felt towards SE (Even though 100% of that should have always been directed towards Ankama).

Any human physically capable of dealing with the likes of us and keeps a professional and light hearted outlook deserves a Pulitzer peace prize.

Peace,
- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902356  Replies : 11  Views : 609
posté August 28, 2015, 09:59:16 | #16

Quote (Jade1 @ 27 August 2015 20:15) *
And then they become an Osa
Dofus created the sadida theme and that is not about to change just because you want it to.

The reason I chose sadida in dofus and here in wakfu was because it was different than osa, you could summon many dolls over time, this was always their theme.

The problem is you, not the class.
Azael and Dy7 got paid to create these classes how they are, people like Tot would not approve of it if they didn't like the theme the class was following.

Unlike you I have proof. Even more amazing is how in Dofus they made summoning a lot of dolls the theme o.o trees and dolls everywhere. This is what they want for sadida


Lock pointless thread,
-Signed


Sadida toolkit at max potential.
Very low reliance on final damage (allowing for abuse of passives like Rock). Minimal reliance on personal damage, +150% resistances, highest base damage of
+90% final damage, damage based on Sadida damage and secondaries.
-37x6 (3 Ultrapowerful)
-33x14 (7 greedies)

^--dolls

-37 (gust)
-81x2
-22 (intox)
9xAP use, 9xMP use (Let's call it 12/0 for convenience): -108 (Sic 'Em More)

^--Sadida itself

all vs -100% res target

(222+462)*1.9+37+162+108

Sadida has the possibility to deal 991 base damage of which 681 is dealt at +90% final damage and -100% resist to a single target. No, this is not reasonably achievable, but the fact that it IS achievable is a problem. It is a huge balance problem, because any situation which allows things like this to be achieved is a problem.

Now if I flip this to something more likely for maximum output it looks like this:
37x6 (3UP)
33x8 (4greedy)
-2 range/mp (because yolo throwaway)
+22hpx4 (2inflates)
(+90% final damage dolls)

-81 (chill)
+64.5 armor (Fertilizer)
-44hp, -4mp (Grass)

(222+264) *1.9+81+44
-6MP (I assume 3-4 stolen max due to hypermovement) -2range
+64.5 base armor
+88 base hp (total damage reduced/returned 152.5)
9xAP use, 9xMP use (Let's call it 12/0 for convenience): -108 (Sic 'Em More)
vs -50% res target

That's 719 base damage WHILE armoring for 64.5 AND healing for 88 and ALSO disabling the living crap out of your target. Again, this is not reasonably achievably 95% of the time, but the fact that it can be achieved is a PROBLEM.

Why does doll Sadida absolutely suck in short fights? early in fights?
Because those numbers look more like this.
33*2 (+90% final)

-81 (chill)
-44hp, -4mp (Grass)
9xAP use, 9xMP use (Let's call it 12/0 for convenience): -108 (Sic 'Em More)

+64.5 (Fert) armor

Max turn one output using 3 spells with 3+ cooldown.

(33*2)*1.9 + 81, + 44, +108

on a -50% res target. That's only 218 damage for blowing your whole load on turn one.

Mass doll is a PROBLEM on both ends of the spectrum. It's 'ramp up after 9 turns' play style makes Sadida total garbage for the entire duration of 95% of the fights in the game. You are relegated to using dolls for bug mechanics or to be totally mediocre. Any fight that you can actually achieve total output makes you unbelievably broken in scale with any other class currently in the game.

I don't know how much more simply I can break down that _THIS IS A PROBLEM_
This also ignores the fact that doll AI is clunky (useless) the dolls themselves are clunky, and often get in the way of stronger teammates, and are just plain difficult to use in team situations to make a class that doesn't really fit in the game for anything other than exploiting AI bugs, having a ton of things around, or abusing the fact that it is the strongest final stats of anything possible within the game.

Stack on to this that the most effective stats for dolls are HP and resistance and you have a class that can outdamage, anything else on raw base damage, armor, heal, and support by lowering resistances and crippling a target. All in the same turn.

This is not how Sadida was ever meant to function. If you are all so set on doll spam, dolls should no longer block line of sight, have most if not all damage removed and become support tools and be capable of being summoned MUCH more rapidly. Additionally, they shouldn't benefit from or create an object in fight that is literally indestructible.

Please, give me your hyper accurate data on how Dofus Sadida disproves the raw numbers.

-Mic drop


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902355  Replies : 212  Views : 3728
posté August 27, 2015, 19:37:34 | #17

Quote (ReiYano @ 27 August 2015 03:33) *
You took this picture before it got epic mode when people filled 3/4ths of the alma space! I can tell, because I'm not playing yet. XD


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902184  Replies : 27  Views : 1050
posté August 27, 2015, 16:43:52 | #18

Quote (Arkolak @ 27 August 2015 11:07) *
I haven't cared enough to put my input in this thread but I regularly party with one of, if not the best geared sadida on Nox. Want to know my take on the summoning mechanism? It's Mediocre, they can spam but their dolls are so weak It's better for her to do mediocre damage or mediocre heals, or put up mediocre shields than to invest in her dolls. Sadi are support classes, they can do everything but they can't do anything the best. Don't get me wrong, they are great to use as meat shields for ONE hit in HC Owl or for moving allies out of harms way but I would never rely on a dolls heals or damage.

In pvp many classes can't deal with the dolls but all you need is decent flaming damage, let them nuke themselves in a chain reaction and any sadi dumb enough to try to swarm you will find their whole army blown up. If your scared of the damage a sadi does after you blow their dolls up then you shouldn't be pvping in the first place.

Long story short, if you think the class is so great then change to it. You'll be disappointed.

Edit: I just noticed who started this thread, last week it was rogues~ less crying nerf at every class that beats your crap geared panda and more getting better stuff.
Doll's and sadi damage being weak is half the problem. Dolls are weak because they are balanced halfway between turn 1 where they are worthless and turn 10 where they are still worthless, but you can potentially have 10 of them and their combined base damage/heals of 11 individual units will outshine anything possible on any other characters. One hit, when the dolls are Free and cast gated to 2/UP is actually quite a lot, they are exceptionally useful for tiles, and can be useful for bugging out the AI or redirecting monster attacks in any difficult instance.

I don't need to roll the class, I was playing it before spell decks, played it all through the beta updates and abandoned it because of spell decks. Sadida being balanced to 10 summons is a problem both for Sadida's and the game. There are few people who seem willing to defend the 10 summon system, which promotes trashy summons and mediocre abilities from the Sadida in the name of poorly balancing the Sadida at max output.

This is the point all the smart players are making. Most of the disputes point out that Sadida is crappy in short fights, but the point is that yes, they are crappy in short fights, because they were balanced against max potential and that is a mistake. Summons need to have a lower limit so their max potential can be balanced against a lower doll limit.

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902154  Replies : 212  Views : 3728
posté August 27, 2015, 00:37:13 | #19

Quote (Neneko88 @ 26 August 2015 22:56) *
Go play another class, this ramp up is exactly what Dofus design for the sadida is.

THIS is the design of sadida, if you don't like the design go play another class

Dofus sadida
Click here


Your statement that "if fights are long sadida is the best" doesn't help you, that's how it's supposed to be. Just like how some classes like iop/rogue/eca are the best in short fights.

Do you know what balance is? short and long balance

Or do you want sadida to have 1-2 summons per fight like osa? Why not remove sadida from the game and keep osas at that point?
Summoning over 3-10 turns to have many dolls is how it's supposed to work.

And it's not me saying it, I'm showing you proof.

Btw Sabi will claim many things "to keep the community" happy. Ask in the Spanish forum and their community manager will tell you the truth about population.

I see that blazka keeps replying in this topic but want him to know that I have him blocked since June. I suggest to him that he asks devs to make sram better
I already did change to another class, this iteration of Sadida is not worth my time and never will be, it's garbage in my eyes. Heed my warning Neko, since you love to ignore me, belittle me and put me down. Sadida WILL get nerfed, because it's flat out broken, and probably will become lower tier, like in the past. This will be in huge part due to the inability of the players to accept that having so many summons is not cohesive to balanced gameplay in a turn based game.

This is because in the state of WAKFU (6 characters, shorter fights, all damage, less tactical options), NOT DOFUS, this class cannot be balanced in it's current state. I'm going to be frank, I don't care about Dofus. I don't play it, I never did, and if I wanted to I'd be playing DOFUS, not WAKFU. This game isn't Dofus, no matter how much the devs like stealing all of Dofus' ideas. If you want to play Dofus, no one is stopping you. It sounds like Dofus Sadida is ideal for you. You don't see Xelor's begging for midnight cells, one game does not represent another.

I also find it strange that in a thread where there is serious discussion about balance, you rarely reference any balance data, and instead commonly resort to direct attacks against players. I've never once said "Neneko is the Sadida player who won't be happy unless Sadida is OP in all ways possible", yet you constantly reference me as an 'alt player shield multiman'.

If you want to keep your horde of damage dolls, Sadida needs to lose armors, lose most of it's healing and lose resistance lowering effects. It can get poisons back and be summon focused with elements of team buffing, minor healing elements and no enemy debuffing. At which point, it's another flavorless damage dealer.

I'm done with this. I honestly only came here to voice my two cents about how awful the class has become. Enjoy being OP while it lasts.

Peace,
- Madd


This post has been edited by Madd1 - August 27, 2015, 00:39:33.
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902033  Replies : 212  Views : 3728
posté August 26, 2015, 22:52:59 | #20

Quote (Aigees @ 26 August 2015 22:32) *
They should add more guild capacity or only let you join 1 guild per account imo.
One guild, one nation. First step to making nations and guilds relevant things other than group chat and bonuses.

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902004  Replies : 4  Views : 241