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Madd1's profile
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Member Since : 2012-04-11
1500 Posts (1.22 per day)
Most active in : General Discussion
posté Today - 06:53:28 | #1
Neko, I can't continue this, obviously we're never going to agree, you will make assumptions about what I write instead of actually paying attention to the context. I will attempt to refute your rebuttals with logic and you will continue to ignore them ~_~

I want a better Sadida, and I've included tons of options that are not 'like an osa' for the class. It's odd to me that when I comment on the state of Osas people say 'sounds too much like Sadida'! Now comments on Sadida 'sound too much like Osa'? Gonna have to agree to disagree.


Quote (Aquallia @ 29 August 2015 05:19) *
You mean to speed up how fast it reaches full power, but lowering it's maximum power?

This could work, but what if someone wants to solo with the class, how would that help?

I think Sadida has to be good at everything it does, but not as powerful as the primary class for doing that.

Sadida I think has potential to be kept as 2nd best healer after Eni, different but not too much weaker summoner than Osa (more summons, but summons not as strong), a decent damage dealer (mixing it up with direct and indirect damage while also being able to lower enemy resistance), other utilities like giving armor and some map manipulation to round it out with going a little of everything. This is how I'd like to make Sadida able to do a bit of everything and compensate for weaknesses by having more options to work with, work well alone or in group, and be the whatever you need it to be class I feel it has great potential at being.

I feel trying to weaken it too much will just make it no fun to play.


The short answer to your question is yes. Part of my proposal is to strengthen the Sadida as an individual character further, either through passive options (as it stands there's only a couple of actual Sadida passives you can even use without dolls), more flexible spell cast ranges and faster ramp to maximum sadida individual power/defense from dolls. Additionally, I think the class when it chooses to use dolls should be stronger than solo options. It just makes more sense for a 'summoner', however using summons doesn't need to make Sadida ridiculously stronger, it can be a much more subtle change in power. It's always gonna be this way, there are tons of classes you can play that don't summon, but the devs have to recognize there are some instances that summons are a hindrance (or useless) like Sram boss phase 2, where they will die instantly on their turn or some areas of certain dungeons. I'd also like to see more poisons, it was a very logical power for the Sadida to have.

My second major point is that the power of dolls should be achieved more quickly, and the maximum potential power of dolls should be reduced. Dolls, while being attackable shouldn't feel like they have to be a primary target, or a primary defensive point. Kiku brings this up a lot and it's a very valid point in PVP and PVM. Your UP is very important since it's on such a long cooldown and is the source of all other dolls. This also makes it the 'Samson's hair' of Sadida. If you cut it off the character is crippled, making it's it the focal point of many fights. I think this is a mistake. The Sadida is the star of it's own show, it should never take a back seat to it's own summons.

This can be achieved through more quickly summoned smaller contingent of stronger dolls, or much weaker but much more quickly summoned hordes of dolls that can be used now. I don't really care, but I favor smaller groups significantly because realistically dolls are a major hindrance to gameplay for 99% of the players of this game. If you were to do a survey of every Wakfu player asking "How many of you like playing with a Sadida who has 10 dolls out?" I'm willing to wager my whole gearset, characters and accounts that 99/100 would say 'No'.

It's a fair way to balance the overall power and the lack of early power that makes Sadida very difficult to play alone,
- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902687  Replies : 156  Views : 2694
posté Today - 04:18:35 | #2

Quote (Neneko88 @ 29 August 2015 02:43) *
Statistical data is what made Grou make the changes he made to sadida in his revamp
Let's go back to that right?

Keep thinking wakfu is so simple that "data" is what matters and not situations. Earthquake situations won't always be there how you tell people it is (not pvp).

Everybody is not making a sadida,
Signed
What made Grou's iteration hard to use was expensive dolls and poor base damage values on the Sadida itself. If you could summon any doll you wanted for 2AP/each gated to maybe 2-3/turn Grou's iteration would have still had poor base damage values, but would have been much more usable in the grand scale. Even that iteration of Sadida had good damage potential at max dolls, I'd argue that it was better balanced at max dolls which made the class overall much more poorly balanced until you had max dolls. Hence why it felt utterly weak for most fights.

Alternatively, if the costs were the same and the dolls themselves were much more powerful, that would have also made it much better.

I never said that the issues that effect Sadida now didn't exist before. The difference is that the individual Sadida is much better balanced which now makes the Sadida+dolls exceptionally strong, but the Sadida alone remains not strong enough. The best solution I can see is to speed up the scaling from no power to full power and to tone down the full power of the class, this allows it to be much more useful in all instances, and much less out of proportion in the few instances that it's currently broken in.

I may sound like a broken record, but I really haven't seen you argue anything that doesn't actually work in favor of my point.

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902661  Replies : 156  Views : 2694
posté Today - 01:54:18 | #3

Quote (blazakkhakabow @ 28 August 2015 12:46) *
Madd, how would damage values change if you changes Poisoned Wind to almost-peak damage of Earthquake(dollies around target) in the top damage rotation?


Sorry, I forgot to answer this. It's a bit hard since to use EQ effectively you'd need 13 AP, so the damage values will be higher no matter what, but it goes from 22hp to 46hp/doll in range. So that can be up to 46x11, meaning earthquake alone has the potential to deal 506 damage. I purposely avoided Earthquake because it makes calculations real complicated and Sadida is already very broken without even adding it to the equation.

In a larger scale fight, Earthquake alone could easily hit all targets multiple times each meaning you could deal damage into the neighborhood of 3542 with just Earthquake. Anytime you use Earthquake damage though, it just gets really complicated. We don't really need it to prove that sadida damage is out of proportion.


Quote (Neneko88 @ 29 August 2015 00:17) *
That's your personal want which Dy7 ignored because that's not what he wants the class to be.
He tried weak dolls in beta and they were hitting for 80-150 damage (not worth summoning at this point) and in one of the beta updates he made them die really fast (not worth bothering with dolls).

You're offending the devs, they spents many months getting feedback, if they liked ours best then oh well.

I suggest you suggest pvp system changes like lower shield numbers for all shields in every class (feca is also a big problem in pvp).

Your suggestion doesn't show any balance, nerf dolls by 30-40% and to balance that we can summon 1 ultra powerful every turn? but we're limited to 4 dolls total?
I just ran the new moon island dungeon, people with steel beak equips and none of them were talking about how strong sadida is (all fights took10+ turns). My equips are pretty good btw.

Start a new pvp topic,
Signed


I don't see how constructive criticism is 'offending the devs', if you read my posts, I actually made a point to commend Dy7 on listening to the feedback and responding to it so well, I actually blame the state of the class much more highly on the poor feedback he tried to work with. Realistically, I just didn't have the time I'd hoped to be as vocal in feedback as I'd have liked, that doesn't invalidate my arguments or the raw data that backs them up. Additionally, it's impossible for a small pool of people to see just how far a class can go. I knew Sadida was broken before release, but I don't think I realized quite how broken it was.

Secondly, you are merging two separate suggestions into one.

IDEA #1: 30-40% power reduction with a faster 3-4 turn ramp up is for your 10+ doll strategy. This allows Sadida to be useful in shorter fights, but not to the point of being absurdly broken. Dy7 did play with weaker dolls and less durable dolls, but he also did this with the limitation of very long cast limits to get to full potential, you'll find that if there are much shorter cast limits (meaning dolls come out forever) that the lowered damage is actually quite fair.

IDEA #2: My idea of limiting dolls to 4-6 comes with a much smaller reduction in power AND comes with the addition of old dolls that Sadida has lost, such as -AP and the dolls that can potentially cast air spells (which was a huge tactical benefit to the class, although I think it would need to be weakened to be balanced). I also advocated for removal of cast restrictions (such as 80% of usable spells being in line cast)

These ideas are independent options of each other, I never meant for them to be implemented together.

Finally, please stop addressing me as if I care about 1v1 PVP. I probably am one of the only people who has a possible answer to doll-spam Sadida, but I don't care. I don't really PVP anymore as the current system is garbage, and investing in it is not something I have interest in. I have given you not only the instances in which, but the statistical data to prove that the class exists beyond the normal parameters of the game. I've made very compelling arguments and giving compromises on suggestions, and your only retort is to instantly refute anything I say, followed by either a passive-aggressive attack on me, or just telling me to do something else, or I'm offending someone else.

You are not moving your point forward, nor are you in any way helping your class, because as I have already told you. Sadida will get nerfed, regardless of what you or I say, the class will get nerfed. It's broken and it's only a matter of time before the broken mechanics get put on the chopping block. If I were you, I'd be investing all of my time into compromises and ideas that benefit the class in the long term, instead of selfishly holding on to what you like now. Otherwise you run the risk of having the class completely destroyed as nerfs to how it plays now will undoubtedly make the class worse in short-fights which will be a huge hindrance to any Sadida player. This, however, is your own choice. I can't tell you what to do or how to do it. The fact that this thread has hit seven pages and has a large following with statistical data backing the side that Sadida is out of balance should be proof enough that the days of this Sadida are numbered. The choice is yours.

Peace,
- Madd


This post has been edited by Madd1 - August 29, 2015, 01:57:33.
Reason for edit : Clarification
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902631  Replies : 156  Views : 2694
posté Yesterday - 23:49:05 | #4

Quote (Neneko88 @ 28 August 2015 18:13) *
Madd

Stop wasting people's time (specially Dy7's)
I will quote something that everyone that's followed the class has always known (you're new to the class, a lot of us have played this class since the beginning). The build up of dolls is what makes them different from osa. Not this idea that they should be like a 100% support class like Feca (this is not sadida, sadida is also damage and healing). In the future I will reply to you with the same quote below



Quote (Neneko88 @ 26 August 2015 22:56) *
Go play another class, this ramp up is exactly what Dofus design for the sadida is.

Your statement that "if fights are long sadida is the best" doesn't help you, that's how it's supposed to be. Just like how some classes like iop/rogue/eca are the best in short fights.

Do you know what balance is? short and long balance
Then it should be a faster ramp up (3-5 turns) with a lower and more reasonable max potential. 9 turns for max potential that breaks the game is a problem all the way around. You're missing the most basic point I'm making. Sadida fails to live up to other classes for at least the first 3 turns of the game (probably more like 5), feeling significantly weaker at anything other than being support btch. Yet if allowed to reach maximum potential at turn 9, the class is far beyond what should be allowed to functionally exist in the game.

There are other classes in Wakfu that take time to ramp up to max potential, the difference is they have a better startup and a reasonable final potential.

Examples (Yes, these are absolutely rough estimates of power, if I have to dig up #s I will):

Iop, 90% potential @ turn 1, max potential on turn 2. This is a fast class.
Xelor, 80% @ turn 1, Max potential on turn 3-4.
Mask, 60% @ turn 1, Max Potential on turn 3-4? I'm not 100% on this.
Sadida, 20% @ turn 1, Max potential on turn 9.

Sadida just feels like it's too weak on turn one and too damn strong if allowed to run wild. I've outlined extremely well why this is. I can go into further detail if you don't understand that. It's pretty simple to understand how the game works when you play it enough, and it's pretty obvious that Sadida exists outside of what should work in the game. You can argue with me all day, but I'm providing ideas that will stabilize Sadida power, and provide more power throughout the entire fight. Not just on turn 9-45 of a 50 turn fall asleep grind fight.

Here's an example of a viable change, if you're determined to hang on to mass dolls:

Turn one, summon weaker UP, cooldown reduced to 1/turn UP still summons max 2 dolls, dolls have 30-40% current base damage, identical durability for all dolls. Sadida personal bonus caps at doll 4 instead of doll 10, allowing Sadida to have a strong in-fight presence WITHOUT requiring 10 dolls. Allows for max potential to be reached on turn 4 with most potential reached at turn 3. Sadida still feels weak on turn one, but this is necessary for a playstyle that ramps up. Maybe there could be a long cooldown spell that allows you to summon a second UP to up turn one efficiency. I'd also like to see some of the more useful utility dolls (like the old air dolls) brought back. Maybe they can have long cooldowns off the UP cast or something.

The problem with this which is why I advocate for lower doll counts is it still requires you to get out 10+ dolls to maximize output and there are maybe 3-4 situations in the entire game where you'd ever want to do this. It's not a useful mechanic, and I'm confused as to why players are so attached to it. Even if doll counts were brought down to 4-6, max 2 UP (and again, we brought back some of the other old dolls) and dolls were given a smaller power reduction, but much faster and easier to bring out, with the sadida itself getting more flexible spell usage (less line restrictions ect), I think that would be a fair compromise.

The system as it is clearly is broken, and doesn't really work well for anyone, except the people who exploit it's very limited use potential.

Peace,
- Madd


Quote (StraikaGuettao @ 28 August 2015 22:24) *
Not agree. As Xelor i can beat every Sadi (Except Hardcor) and i always see, osas and rogues raping Sadis...

The problem is one device behind the keyboard.
Are you using the build that will obviously gimp Sadidas? I assume as an endgame Xelor you've recognized there's a very simple build that will nearly cripple Sadida users for a majority of fights and probably has it's own balance problems for Xelor... We can go into that next.

Regardless, there's an issue at max potential. So unless all Sadida's in your example are at least equally geared to Hardcor and capable of playing mostly as well it's not a logical example.

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902583  Replies : 156  Views : 2694
posté Yesterday - 10:03:42 | #5
Frankly, I always thought Sabi was the best all the way back to the SE days when everyone in the NA community was riding her just for being a representative of SE. Just of the fuming rage everyone felt towards SE (Even though 100% of that should have always been directed towards Ankama).

Any human physically capable of dealing with the likes of us and keeps a professional and light hearted outlook deserves a Pulitzer peace prize.

Peace,
- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902356  Replies : 9  Views : 449
posté Yesterday - 09:59:16 | #6

Quote (Jade1 @ 27 August 2015 20:15) *
And then they become an Osa
Dofus created the sadida theme and that is not about to change just because you want it to.

The reason I chose sadida in dofus and here in wakfu was because it was different than osa, you could summon many dolls over time, this was always their theme.

The problem is you, not the class.
Azael and Dy7 got paid to create these classes how they are, people like Tot would not approve of it if they didn't like the theme the class was following.

Unlike you I have proof. Even more amazing is how in Dofus they made summoning a lot of dolls the theme o.o trees and dolls everywhere. This is what they want for sadida


Lock pointless thread,
-Signed


Sadida toolkit at max potential.
Very low reliance on final damage (allowing for abuse of passives like Rock). Minimal reliance on personal damage, +150% resistances, highest base damage of
+90% final damage, damage based on Sadida damage and secondaries.
-37x6 (3 Ultrapowerful)
-33x14 (7 greedies)

^--dolls

-37 (gust)
-81x2
-22 (intox)
9xAP use, 9xMP use (Let's call it 12/0 for convenience): -108 (Sic 'Em More)

^--Sadida itself

all vs -100% res target

(222+462)*1.9+37+162+108

Sadida has the possibility to deal 991 base damage of which 681 is dealt at +90% final damage and -100% resist to a single target. No, this is not reasonably achievable, but the fact that it IS achievable is a problem. It is a huge balance problem, because any situation which allows things like this to be achieved is a problem.

Now if I flip this to something more likely for maximum output it looks like this:
37x6 (3UP)
33x8 (4greedy)
-2 range/mp (because yolo throwaway)
+22hpx4 (2inflates)
(+90% final damage dolls)

-81 (chill)
+64.5 armor (Fertilizer)
-44hp, -4mp (Grass)

(222+264) *1.9+81+44
-6MP (I assume 3-4 stolen max due to hypermovement) -2range
+64.5 base armor
+88 base hp (total damage reduced/returned 152.5)
9xAP use, 9xMP use (Let's call it 12/0 for convenience): -108 (Sic 'Em More)
vs -50% res target

That's 719 base damage WHILE armoring for 64.5 AND healing for 88 and ALSO disabling the living crap out of your target. Again, this is not reasonably achievably 95% of the time, but the fact that it can be achieved is a PROBLEM.

Why does doll Sadida absolutely suck in short fights? early in fights?
Because those numbers look more like this.
33*2 (+90% final)

-81 (chill)
-44hp, -4mp (Grass)
9xAP use, 9xMP use (Let's call it 12/0 for convenience): -108 (Sic 'Em More)

+64.5 (Fert) armor

Max turn one output using 3 spells with 3+ cooldown.

(33*2)*1.9 + 81, + 44, +108

on a -50% res target. That's only 218 damage for blowing your whole load on turn one.

Mass doll is a PROBLEM on both ends of the spectrum. It's 'ramp up after 9 turns' play style makes Sadida total garbage for the entire duration of 95% of the fights in the game. You are relegated to using dolls for bug mechanics or to be totally mediocre. Any fight that you can actually achieve total output makes you unbelievably broken in scale with any other class currently in the game.

I don't know how much more simply I can break down that _THIS IS A PROBLEM_
This also ignores the fact that doll AI is clunky (useless) the dolls themselves are clunky, and often get in the way of stronger teammates, and are just plain difficult to use in team situations to make a class that doesn't really fit in the game for anything other than exploiting AI bugs, having a ton of things around, or abusing the fact that it is the strongest final stats of anything possible within the game.

Stack on to this that the most effective stats for dolls are HP and resistance and you have a class that can outdamage, anything else on raw base damage, armor, heal, and support by lowering resistances and crippling a target. All in the same turn.

This is not how Sadida was ever meant to function. If you are all so set on doll spam, dolls should no longer block line of sight, have most if not all damage removed and become support tools and be capable of being summoned MUCH more rapidly. Additionally, they shouldn't benefit from or create an object in fight that is literally indestructible.

Please, give me your hyper accurate data on how Dofus Sadida disproves the raw numbers.

-Mic drop


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902355  Replies : 156  Views : 2694
posté August 27, 2015, 19:37:34 | #7

Quote (ReiYano @ 27 August 2015 03:33) *
You took this picture before it got epic mode when people filled 3/4ths of the alma space! I can tell, because I'm not playing yet. XD


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902184  Replies : 22  Views : 827
posté August 27, 2015, 16:43:52 | #8

Quote (Arkolak @ 27 August 2015 11:07) *
I haven't cared enough to put my input in this thread but I regularly party with one of, if not the best geared sadida on Nox. Want to know my take on the summoning mechanism? It's Mediocre, they can spam but their dolls are so weak It's better for her to do mediocre damage or mediocre heals, or put up mediocre shields than to invest in her dolls. Sadi are support classes, they can do everything but they can't do anything the best. Don't get me wrong, they are great to use as meat shields for ONE hit in HC Owl or for moving allies out of harms way but I would never rely on a dolls heals or damage.

In pvp many classes can't deal with the dolls but all you need is decent flaming damage, let them nuke themselves in a chain reaction and any sadi dumb enough to try to swarm you will find their whole army blown up. If your scared of the damage a sadi does after you blow their dolls up then you shouldn't be pvping in the first place.

Long story short, if you think the class is so great then change to it. You'll be disappointed.

Edit: I just noticed who started this thread, last week it was rogues~ less crying nerf at every class that beats your crap geared panda and more getting better stuff.
Doll's and sadi damage being weak is half the problem. Dolls are weak because they are balanced halfway between turn 1 where they are worthless and turn 10 where they are still worthless, but you can potentially have 10 of them and their combined base damage/heals of 11 individual units will outshine anything possible on any other characters. One hit, when the dolls are Free and cast gated to 2/UP is actually quite a lot, they are exceptionally useful for tiles, and can be useful for bugging out the AI or redirecting monster attacks in any difficult instance.

I don't need to roll the class, I was playing it before spell decks, played it all through the beta updates and abandoned it because of spell decks. Sadida being balanced to 10 summons is a problem both for Sadida's and the game. There are few people who seem willing to defend the 10 summon system, which promotes trashy summons and mediocre abilities from the Sadida in the name of poorly balancing the Sadida at max output.

This is the point all the smart players are making. Most of the disputes point out that Sadida is crappy in short fights, but the point is that yes, they are crappy in short fights, because they were balanced against max potential and that is a mistake. Summons need to have a lower limit so their max potential can be balanced against a lower doll limit.

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902154  Replies : 156  Views : 2694
posté August 27, 2015, 00:37:13 | #9

Quote (Neneko88 @ 26 August 2015 22:56) *
Go play another class, this ramp up is exactly what Dofus design for the sadida is.

THIS is the design of sadida, if you don't like the design go play another class

Dofus sadida
Click here


Your statement that "if fights are long sadida is the best" doesn't help you, that's how it's supposed to be. Just like how some classes like iop/rogue/eca are the best in short fights.

Do you know what balance is? short and long balance

Or do you want sadida to have 1-2 summons per fight like osa? Why not remove sadida from the game and keep osas at that point?
Summoning over 3-10 turns to have many dolls is how it's supposed to work.

And it's not me saying it, I'm showing you proof.

Btw Sabi will claim many things "to keep the community" happy. Ask in the Spanish forum and their community manager will tell you the truth about population.

I see that blazka keeps replying in this topic but want him to know that I have him blocked since June. I suggest to him that he asks devs to make sram better
I already did change to another class, this iteration of Sadida is not worth my time and never will be, it's garbage in my eyes. Heed my warning Neko, since you love to ignore me, belittle me and put me down. Sadida WILL get nerfed, because it's flat out broken, and probably will become lower tier, like in the past. This will be in huge part due to the inability of the players to accept that having so many summons is not cohesive to balanced gameplay in a turn based game.

This is because in the state of WAKFU (6 characters, shorter fights, all damage, less tactical options), NOT DOFUS, this class cannot be balanced in it's current state. I'm going to be frank, I don't care about Dofus. I don't play it, I never did, and if I wanted to I'd be playing DOFUS, not WAKFU. This game isn't Dofus, no matter how much the devs like stealing all of Dofus' ideas. If you want to play Dofus, no one is stopping you. It sounds like Dofus Sadida is ideal for you. You don't see Xelor's begging for midnight cells, one game does not represent another.

I also find it strange that in a thread where there is serious discussion about balance, you rarely reference any balance data, and instead commonly resort to direct attacks against players. I've never once said "Neneko is the Sadida player who won't be happy unless Sadida is OP in all ways possible", yet you constantly reference me as an 'alt player shield multiman'.

If you want to keep your horde of damage dolls, Sadida needs to lose armors, lose most of it's healing and lose resistance lowering effects. It can get poisons back and be summon focused with elements of team buffing, minor healing elements and no enemy debuffing. At which point, it's another flavorless damage dealer.

I'm done with this. I honestly only came here to voice my two cents about how awful the class has become. Enjoy being OP while it lasts.

Peace,
- Madd


This post has been edited by Madd1 - August 27, 2015, 00:39:33.
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902033  Replies : 156  Views : 2694
posté August 26, 2015, 22:52:59 | #10

Quote (Aigees @ 26 August 2015 22:32) *
They should add more guild capacity or only let you join 1 guild per account imo.
One guild, one nation. First step to making nations and guilds relevant things other than group chat and bonuses.

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902004  Replies : 4  Views : 209
posté August 26, 2015, 22:51:37 | #11

Quote (deadcafe @ 26 August 2015 22:43) *
OP: The problem is that complainers are the vocal minority. Most people are generally happy with the game. So, be careful assuming the comments you here on the forums are representative.

Is Wakfu perfect? Far from it. There are plenty of flaws. I think most of them arise from the Wakfu "team" at Ankama being understaffed: new content is not tested sufficiently and communication from Anakama is poor. Because of a need to maintain a revenue stream, bugs are sometimes left unfixed in favor adding new content.

But overall, it's a great game. I love the depth of Wakfu, the artwork is great and the combat system is unmatched. We also have a fantastic community. Wakfu is so good that I'm spoiled now. I usually find myself disappointed when I try other games.
I don't think this is true. I think if you were to tally the total number of people who have quit the game instead of complaining vs the current happy user base of the game, you'd find that the content players are dwarfed multiple times over. The vocal minority are just the remnants who are still clinging to their desire to enjoy the fun parts of the game.

I've gone in and out of this stage a few times in the last three years. I think it's hard to be a completely content player when you've watched this mess evolve

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #902003  Replies : 17  Views : 788
posté August 26, 2015, 21:24:46 | #12
I'd add underhand over distortion. Distortion has very, very limited uses compared to Underhand which can be used very effectively in combos and is already a mandatory spell for any deck.


Thread : Xelor  Preview message : #901983  Replies : 25  Views : 1685
posté August 26, 2015, 21:17:28 | #13

Quote (Neneko88 @ 26 August 2015 19:30) *
As soon as the devs see "I'm losing to sadida in 1v1 pvp" they will ignore this topic

Except that there's a significant amount of valid discussion about the class as a whole in solo PVM, group PVM, solo PVP and group PVP. Honestly, since this topic is a lot less one sided, I think there's better overall feedback than there was on Beta.


Quote (Neneko88 @ 26 August 2015 19:30) *
In pve rogue, panda, sacrier, and even osa are more effective turn to turn (can anyone prove otherwise?)
I feel sorry for hc vertox but did you see what an iop could do to hc sram and hc enurado?

This is entirely dependent on the # of turns, and how easy it is to set up the 'optimal damage' for each class. As I've stated previously, at maximum doll potential, Sadida will greatly outperform any other class in individual combat. PVM, PVP, irrelevant. However, in short combat where Sadida does not have time to ramp up it performs horribly.

This is a fundamental flaw of using a 3turn cooldown doll to create a dollspam playstyle. However, several of you were very happy to have this for some godawful reason, and the fact that short fights suck for Sadida is in no small part caused by this scaling-power over time which no one but me argued against. Instead many sadidas chose to be hyperfocused on Voodoll and other smaller mechanics. You got your Voodoll, yet complain Sadida fights still suck 99% of the time. Starting to sound like my point may have been more valid for the class.


Quote (Neneko88 @ 26 August 2015 19:30) *
The only sadida player that didn't like the revamp was kiku. All other complainers don't main the class (it's an alt class for some like Madd who uses it the same way you use a multiman (for shields).

This statement makes no sense. If I was only using Sadida for shields, I would be ECSTATIC. Sadida shields are the best in the game. Even if I wasn't happy with them, if all I cared about was armor, my projected replacement would be a Feca or a Fogger. Instead, I'm replacing it with an Osa, because Osa provides all the things I wanted out of Sadida that it could do before. Strong support, tactical gameplay, non-retarded summons. Old Sadida had a very critical place in my team, and when I decided to stop 6boxing it was intended to be my secondary main in my permanent duo team. The revamp changed this because the class has turned out horribly.

There's something that you never seem to understand about this game that I really want to make a point about. Support is important. Sadida still can support, but now feels like an inferior Feca if you choose not to play with dolls. It can lower resistances by 100%, so can Feca. It can raise final damage by 17%, so can Feca. It can armor teammates, so can Feca. It can't give AP, Feca can, without dolls it doesn't have astronomical resistances. Feca does, Feca can lock like a champ, Sadida can't without relying on a gimmick mechanic. It can't provide two immunities, teleport monsters, or provide other support features.

This used to be balanced out with doll gameplay, but doll gameplay has been reduced to dollspam trashpail gameplay that is just not fun. There's a reason Feca is one of the most in demand classes for almost every instance even though it has some of the lowest damage. Having one on your team makes fights a lot better. Yet Sadida, which can provide some of the best support in the game is not the first thing people want in their team.

It's not efficient, it's not even remotely efficient in the current meta, unless you're fighting something you know will be hard.


Quote (Neneko88 @ 26 August 2015 19:30) *
Elbor has more people than nox so?

Firstly, Remington, which is definitely one of the more populated international servers has a Sadida named Hardcor, who has basically been thrashing people to the point that there's a gazillion page thread about him (even before the spell revamp, because Sadida was still capable of mass doll spam pre revamp, and doll spam is the source of the problem). Secondly, the last time I heard anything official from the Devs, they stated that Nox population at peak times exceeds Remington. Please provide Ethos for your statement.


Quote (Neneko88 @ 26 August 2015 19:30) *
But if people here want to ask Azael to waste Dy7's time revamping sadida I'm all for it. I'll ask for all the things that I missed like a tree spell that you can cast on the map, -resist puddles, etc

I have no issue with them adding more TACTICAL abilities to Sadida. I have a huge issue with no-control, bad AI, trash designed throwaway doll spam, and extending fights with this style of gameplay. You may not understand it, but all of your complaints, about turn by turn 'effectiveness' are caused by this doll-spam mentality, which is so strong at final output that it has to be set to ramp up, causing early fight to suck (fast fights = useless sadida) and long fights to make you feel like a literal god.

Peace,
- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #901981  Replies : 156  Views : 2694
posté August 26, 2015, 20:29:37 | #14
Viable heavy DDs, IMHO

Melee: Iop, Sram, Mask, Sac

Ranged: Cra, Xelor, Eca, Rogue


Viable secondary DDs (ranged+Melee): Panda, Fog, Osa, Eni, Emo.

Don't try to use Feca/Sadi as DDs  


Thread : General  Preview message : #901972  Replies : 6  Views : 214
posté August 26, 2015, 18:12:42 | #15

Quote (Bendigeidfran @ 26 August 2015 17:29) *
I have a few questions on PVP Xelors.

How useful are the AOE's like Clock and Temporal Burn?
Should I be using aging in PVP?
Also, after maxing ranged damage under Strength, should I take AOE damage or single target or just general damage?
And how viable are Sinistro's in PVP?

Thanks in advance!

Clock/Burn are exceptionally useful in group, as long as your team can set you up. If you go tri, burn is useful in aging tick turns as Hand is cast gated.

If you're tri, yes use aging. If you're duo, no you don't need it.

After ranged damage, I would go full general damage. Xelor can AoE and Single target. It's not worth it IMHO to limit yourself to one or the other.

Mass Sinistro is probably one of the only viable counters to the current BS OP Sadida, because the Sinistro will hit every doll in it's range every turn, causing them to lose 1 AP or more and not be able to do anything (unless the dolls are nettled) and bug out any dolls not controlled by Sadida. Against anything else it serves more as a physical blockade, but it's a skill you can probably overlook until true end game PVP.

Hope that helps,
- Madd


Thread : Xelor  Preview message : #901946  Replies : 25  Views : 1685
posté August 26, 2015, 07:16:57 | #16

Quote (Ennjeidp @ 25 August 2015 19:15) *
First off, it is incredibly easy to become a hoodlum because if you're grinding crafts, you tend to autoplant and it will happen. Bontans have it the worst because of its forests. And CP reduction is by percent, and then locked to CP. There's other things to consider like autojoin and parties with their wings up.

During mods or even during peak hours, there are multiple people harvesting , planting, so even checking the ecology every few minutes won't prevent the loss of CP.

Foreigners (people who go to other nations to farm) have it easier, and it is entirely possible to lose a percentage of your CP, and the effort it will take to revert back to 0 CP would be twice as much.

I'm glad people are amused about this, but it is a fundamental issue, and if it took them 4 revamps just to allow the sacrier killable (and thereby removing the hoodlum status at last). The CP system is outdated and should've been revamped when Riktus came along but was retained and holey unchanged throughout the faction revisions and government revamps.

Also, you don't kill Hoodlums. You're not supposed to. Because killing them gives them their draco rights back, meaning they can use fast travel, and screw up a different area's ecology.
While I agree with your point, I only think this is an issue for new players. I have autoque'd enough to lose CP only once since that became possible. Realistically, you can farm most resources in enemy nations, or islands without any issues.

I've advocated for the removal of ecosystems for a long time. The government should also be allowed to use nation funds to repopulate areas with specific plants, mobs IMHO.


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #901805  Replies : 27  Views : 1256
posté August 26, 2015, 06:38:22 | #17

Quote (l-Xaloxflow-l @ 26 August 2015 04:43) *
Actually, a sacrier can beat easily a sadida if he knows how to play. In fact, at least in elbor sacriers and rouges are the truly counters of the sadida.

You are talking about theory and about the vision of your sram, I talk about the truth that I see everyday in my fights and the fights on my server.
Did it ever occur to you that Elbor might just have weak Sadidas? It's one thing to say you've beat Sadidas, it's another to assume that you have the best of certain classes or that what you see is the 'truth' on one of the lowest population servers around.

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #901799  Replies : 156  Views : 2694
posté August 26, 2015, 00:57:39 | #18
Some of these points have always been true, otherwise all of us would have been long gone.

Many of the things you mention though, such as ecosystems, government and outlaw/pvp systems, ect, are relics that have been around a long time and never really properly fleshed out, or never properly evolved with the rest of the game (2012, governments were a big deal.... 2015, not so much). To the point where they are a time sync without any real benefit beyond the low to mid level.

This game has always had great potential, realizing it has just been a very bumpy road.

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #901725  Replies : 17  Views : 788
posté August 26, 2015, 00:34:56 | #19
SB was probably a bad example, my guild-mate who swears by Sadida in SB uses it mostly to have dolls bug the AI out and to lower boss res by 100% (Which has always been my personal favorite part of the class).

My bad,
- Madd


This post has been edited by Madd1 - August 26, 2015, 00:38:43.
Reason for edit : added -res to post.
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #901719  Replies : 156  Views : 2694
posté August 26, 2015, 00:05:03 | #20

Quote (Aquallia @ 25 August 2015 23:19) *
I think instead of complaining and trying to nerf someone else's class, you should put effort instead in improving the class you play. Sorry, just my opinion, but seems people want to nerf other classes instead of fix up the ones they play.

I have idea on how to limit doll spam, but probably sucks... make all dolls controllable (with no stupid A.I.), but... only allow for one of each doll on field at time. Like 1 UP, 1 Greedy, 1 Inflatable, 1 Block, and 1 Madoll. Sacrificial as the suicide bomber doll maybe can have more than one of, but limit to maybe 3 or 4 at a time (assuming you not do what I do, summoning them next to the intended target, if do that, them maybe only 1 Sacrificial on field at time works too).
If you remember from the beta Feedback thread, Dy7 said more than 2 dolls with full control was starting to push it. 3 dolls is the happy compromise IMHO. The class needs more tactical options, less spell limitations and more limitations on dolls, otherwise it becomes impossible to balance situations that work best with infinite dolls and situations that work best with limited dolls.

- Madd


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #901712  Replies : 156  Views : 2694